1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,960 Speaker 1: I thought it might be fun to talk about school 2 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: lunches because the media has ignored the subject for far 3 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: too long. Of course, the latest chapter is the LaBelle group, 4 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: who is contracted by Compass to deliver these lunches, and 5 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,319 Speaker 1: they've been tipped into liquidation. As I'm sure you're well aware. 6 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: The Associate Education Minister David Seymore's with us. Very good 7 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 1: morning to you. If LeBell are tipped into liquidation but 8 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 1: the lunches still continue, is the liquidation of Label's story. 9 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 2: No, it's a contractual matter between two parties that don't 10 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 2: actually have a contract directly with We have contracted Compass. 11 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 2: Leabell are a subcontractor to them. They have to sort 12 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,959 Speaker 2: out their issue. Our issue is making sure that Compass 13 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 2: continues to deliver on its contract to the government on 14 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 2: behalf of the taxpayer, and we're doing that. 15 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: Okay, did you know about Lebelle when you signed up 16 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: with Compass or. 17 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 2: We certainly knew that they were the subcontractor do you 18 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 2: know they're in trouble. We were aware that they may 19 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:04,759 Speaker 2: have some issues, but I mean that's always the case. 20 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,279 Speaker 2: We didn't have any reason to believe that they would fail. 21 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 2: We just knew that they were signed up to deliver 22 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 2: on certain terms. 23 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,199 Speaker 1: Why would you sign up with anybody who you knew 24 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: to have trouble. 25 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 2: Because we didn't believe that there was any issue that 26 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 2: would lead to a problem. We simply undertook a contract 27 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,479 Speaker 2: with Compass, and that contract is now being delivered. 28 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: I told you that there wouldn't be a problem. Was 29 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: that Compass. 30 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 2: That was done through the people that negotiated on behalf, 31 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 2: through the Ministry of Education. It wasn't well as specific individuals. 32 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 2: I'm not going to get public officials. 33 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, so the ministry knew there could be troubled but 34 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: were reassured there wasn't. They told you there could be trouble, 35 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: but they reassured you there wouldn't be. 36 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 2: Well. I think that's a fair summary. But there was 37 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 2: certainly no reason to think that they wouldn't deliver, and 38 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 2: there's been no interruption to the delivery of school lunches 39 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 2: as a result of this liquidation. Yesterday ninety nine point 40 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 2: ninety six was the level of on time delivery? 41 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: Would you concede that, given what you've faced in the 42 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: last couple of weeks, this doesn't help. 43 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 2: Well, I think what we're doing is we're getting it 44 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 2: into a place where it's going to be a success. 45 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 2: There have been problems with the school lunch program, but 46 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,959 Speaker 2: in each instance we've been upfront, we've accepted that there's 47 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 2: been problems, and we've solve them. And frankly, I think 48 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 2: what's needed is a look at the wider picture here. 49 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 2: The whole country is in some financial trouble. We're short 50 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 2: of money. Generally a lot of people in their businesses 51 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 2: and households are short of money. What we're doing is 52 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 2: saving up to one hundred and seventy million a year 53 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 2: while continuing to deliver a program. 54 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: I I I get all of that. Does LaBelle in 55 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: their troubles in any way, shape or form lead to 56 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 1: the difficulty you faced in terms of delivery exploding meals, cooking, burning, 57 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: et cetera. 58 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 2: Well, I can't say whether that whether it has or hasn't, 59 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 2: for the simple reason that that comes down to a 60 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 2: contractual dispute between two other parties. As I say, our 61 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 2: contracts is with Compass. As they work through that dispute, 62 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 2: the last thing they need is some politician going on 63 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 2: the radio giving their recons and pointing the finger. So 64 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 2: some people might come to that conclusion, but I can't 65 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 2: go them. 66 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: I just look at how I conduct my life, and 67 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: I've wondered if you've made a mistake here. When I 68 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: hire people in life, I hire the best people, not 69 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: the people who tell me, look there's something over there. 70 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: It might be a problem that might not be. I mean, 71 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: you were asking for trouble. 72 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 2: Was that? 73 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: Were they the only people in the game? Is that 74 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: the problem? 75 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 2: No, I don't think so, and we made so. 76 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: Were they the only people in the game or not. 77 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 2: There's always a range of people that can satisfy a 78 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 2: contract for. 79 00:03:57,800 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: They the cheapest people in the game. 80 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 2: Well, again that I'm not going to go into the 81 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 2: exact procurement process, but what I can say is there 82 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 2: were lots of ways we could have done it. This 83 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 2: way is delivering at half the price, and it's only 84 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,799 Speaker 2: going to get better. When there's been issues, We've worked everything. 85 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 1: Continue to the song, David. I've been on your side 86 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: on this, and the only thing I've been worried about 87 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 1: is the delivery. If you say you're going to deliver, 88 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 1: you've got to deliver. Lunchtime is lunchtime. It's got to 89 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 1: turn up. The rest of it's been just a shambolic 90 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: pile on from the media, and it's a disgrace. But 91 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: if you went and hired mister cheapo who you knew 92 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: was a problem, and that problems come back to bite 93 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 1: you in the bum, that's on you, isn't it. 94 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:44,280 Speaker 2: Well, But actually it hasn't. What we've done is overcome 95 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 2: problems as they've arisen. When one. 96 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 1: Problems because you went with the cheapest person in town 97 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:54,160 Speaker 1: who was always going to cause you problems, because that's 98 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: what cheap people do. In other words, if you'd hired 99 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: a decent operator, you wouldn't have had any problems in 100 00:04:58,279 --> 00:04:58,799 Speaker 1: the first place. 101 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 2: Well, it's a good characterization and a good story, but 102 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:03,679 Speaker 2: I don't think it's true. 103 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 1: It's a question. I'm just asking you the question. Is 104 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:06,280 Speaker 1: that the case? 105 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 2: Well, it's a characterization, and I reject it. I don't 106 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 2: think that is the case. 107 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: So you don't think you went with the cheapest bid 108 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: with troubled people you knew to be troubled. 109 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 2: No, I don't agree with that. When you do a procurement, 110 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 2: obviously there are a lot of different factors that you 111 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 2: use to choose a contractor. In this case, I think 112 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 2: we did it right and where we've had issues, we'll 113 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 2: solve them. That's actually the only way you talk about 114 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 2: how you run your life, because. 115 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: The way I run my life, David, is I hire 116 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 1: people who do the job, who don't present me with 117 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 1: the problems, and I pay for that. That's how I 118 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 1: run my life. 119 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 2: And that's exactly what we're doing. Wherever there's been a problem. 120 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: Apart from apart from all the problems you've had, and 121 00:05:57,839 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: the company that's now in liquidation. 122 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 2: And again, the company that's in liquidation is not interrupting 123 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 2: the delivery of meals. Where As I said yesterday after 124 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:12,359 Speaker 2: they were liquidated, we achieved right up to one hundred 125 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:14,679 Speaker 2: percent if you want a round ninety nine point ninety 126 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 2: six percent timetime delivery. So I understand what you're saying, 127 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 2: but the premise of your argument is that there's a 128 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 2: problem due to the liquidation. There is no problem. 129 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: I'm just asking what it is. If you can assure 130 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: me there isn't, that's fine, and the delivery continues. The 131 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 1: TV one thing last night, did you see it? 132 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 2: I think they ran two stories if I right? 133 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: Okay? Is that the most disgraceful form of I use 134 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: the word really loose leap journalism you've seen in a 135 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: long time. I mean, that's what you're up against. This 136 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: is a massive, almost state funded pylon. 137 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,919 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, first of all, let's just remember that seventy 138 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 2: five percent of children have lunches made by their children. 139 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 2: There's an argument that that should be one hundred percent. 140 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 2: The government's got a policy that we're going to fund 141 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 2: lunches for twenty fight actually about twenty seven percent of 142 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 2: filtering up and down New Zealand. My job is to 143 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 2: do that as efficiently as possible, and we are. But 144 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 2: I think, as I mentioned earlier, you know, the media 145 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 2: may have missed the wider context here. The whole country 146 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 2: needs an improvement in productivity. When somebody comes up with 147 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 2: a way to effectively double productivity by delivering the same 148 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 2: nutrition at half the price, then I think we should 149 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 2: actually be asking ourselves, well, is that a good thing? 150 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 2: Is that what we need to see more of? Are 151 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 2: their problems? Yes? Is the guy in charge actually working 152 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 2: through them each day, overcoming them and making it better 153 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 2: every day? Yes? Is that exactly the kind of spirit 154 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,239 Speaker 2: that we need in New Zealand if we're to overcome 155 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 2: a lot of other problems? Yes, it is. Would you 156 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 2: ever be able to explain that to certain journalists at 157 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 2: TVNZ or three News. I suspect you can't, and that's 158 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 2: why their audiences are switching off, because people want to 159 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,679 Speaker 2: see solutions in a way out of the various challenges 160 00:07:58,680 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 2: we have in this country. 161 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: Time David Seymour, I was going to get onto the 162 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: verification of pharmacists in this country, but we've run out 163 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: of time. 164 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to 165 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 2: news Talks it'd be from six am weekdays, or follow 166 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.