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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from news talks It be

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Speaker 1: follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: It's time for all the attitude, all the opinion, all

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Speaker 1: the information, all the debates of now the Leighton Smith

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Speaker 1: Podcast powered by news talks It B.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 3: After wishing everyone a Merry Christmas on Christmas Day, I

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Speaker 3: get the privilege of wishing everybody a Happy New Year

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Speaker 3: on New Year's Day of twenty twenty five in a

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Speaker 3: podcast interview that I think is some essential essential listening

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Speaker 3: and if you have folk that you think might appreciate it,

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Speaker 3: then send it to them. And insidious phenomenon has become

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Speaker 3: widely evident around the Western world and it is alive

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Speaker 3: and well in New Zealand. The attack has been against

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Speaker 3: every institution that props up the pillars about democratic freedom.

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Speaker 3: Retired Judge Anthony Willie justifies his accusations, the accusations that

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Speaker 3: he leveled in an essay Blowing in the Wind on

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Speaker 3: ENSIDCPR dot com, and we did the interview off the

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Speaker 3: back of that. It is an important document that I

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Speaker 3: suggest should be studied in every school. But enjoy it

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Speaker 3: and once again, Happy New Year. Layton Smith. Leverrix is

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Speaker 3: an antihistamine made in Switzerland to the highest quality. Leverix

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Speaker 3: It's fast acting for fast relief and it works in

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Speaker 3: under an hour and lasts for over twenty four hours.

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Speaker 3: Leverrix is a tiny tablet that unblocks the nose, deals

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Speaker 3: with itchy eyes, and stops sneeze. Levericks is an antihistamine

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Speaker 3: made in Switzerland to the highest quality. So next time

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Speaker 3: you're in need of an effective antihistamine, call into the

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Speaker 3: pharmacy and ask for Leverix l e v Rix Leverix

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Speaker 3: and always read the label, take as directed and if

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Speaker 3: symptoms persist, see your health professional. Farmer Broker Auckland. There

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Speaker 3: was an advertisement when I was young, when you're on

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Speaker 3: a good thing, stick to it. Retired judge Anthony Willie

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Speaker 3: has guested on this podcast on numerous occasions. Why because

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Speaker 3: when you're on a good thing, stick to it. And

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Speaker 3: it's great to welcome you back, Anthony, thank you.

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Speaker 4: Lighton.

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Speaker 3: So your most recent column, your most recent contribution to

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Speaker 3: the discussion of things almost knock me out. Its length

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Speaker 3: was superb. Everything that you said in it was applicable

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Speaker 3: to what's going on and where it's headed. And my

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Speaker 3: guess is that a lot of people will want a

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Speaker 3: copy of this to refer to and to refer others to,

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Speaker 3: because it is on target. Called Blowing in the wind

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Speaker 3: Sir Elton John's beautiful lyrics aptly described the partus position

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Speaker 3: of the fragile candle of enlightenment and reason as it

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Speaker 3: exists in today's world. Both are increasingly assailed by the

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Speaker 3: winds of dogma, ignorance, and deliberate misinformation. What triggered you

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Speaker 3: to put pen to paper or fingers to the keyboard.

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Speaker 4: Well, curiously enough, it was the anniversary of the death

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Speaker 4: of Princess Diana, which doesn't have anything much it's relevant,

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Speaker 4: except that it brought to mind Elton John's lyrics. And

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Speaker 4: I was going to write something about the text of

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Speaker 4: what I did write, and I thought that that was

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Speaker 4: a rare description of what's happening to all of the

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Speaker 4: benefits of the enlightenment that we've for so long taken

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Speaker 4: for granted.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'd like to work our way through this through

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Speaker 3: this article as closely as possible and at whatever speed

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Speaker 3: you choose to deliver. But you start off essentially by

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Speaker 3: pointing out that there is an insidious phenomenon invading society.

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Speaker 4: What is it. Well, we've taken for granted for so

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Speaker 4: long now the benefits that we acquired from this flowering

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Speaker 4: of thought which occurred in the principle the seventeenth and

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Speaker 4: eighteenth centuries, and we've sat back and assumed that life

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Speaker 4: will always be like that, and our position is secure.

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Speaker 4: But it's not so. We're surrounded with a growing tendency

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Speaker 4: for the old Marxist doctrines to take hold and doing

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Speaker 4: so very successfully. And of course they're the antithesi of

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Speaker 4: our way of life, which is based on all those

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Speaker 4: things I mentioned in the article free speech, the rule

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Speaker 4: of law, democracy, and so on. And it's something that's

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Speaker 4: really of concern. We don't seem to be grasping that

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Speaker 4: this is occurring in so many different facets of our society.

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Speaker 4: But of course we had the classic example of the

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Speaker 4: previous three years of the so called Labor government, in

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Speaker 4: which the Marxist philosophy was alive and well, led of

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Speaker 4: course by somebody who wasn't avowed Marxist and had been

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Speaker 4: the world president of a Marxist society. But we don't

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Speaker 4: seem to really be alert to just how dangerous this

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Speaker 4: is and what is happening.

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Speaker 3: What is it that's preventing the continuation of not just

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Speaker 3: the practice, but the teaching of the advantages and what

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Speaker 3: we are discussing actually delivers to society, to individuals, to organizations.

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Speaker 3: It all really comes, I suppose, under the heading of

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Speaker 3: one word freedom.

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Speaker 4: Yes, yes, and really that sums up what is happening,

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Speaker 4: and it's the loss of freedom. And I give a

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Speaker 4: few examples in my article in no particular order. But

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Speaker 4: if you begin by subverting education so that children at

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Speaker 4: school only learn what this particular group in society want

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Speaker 4: them to learn, and if they are told that their

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Speaker 4: history is irrelevant, and that where they came from is

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Speaker 4: in New Zealand anyway is essentially bad m then it

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Speaker 4: starts very early and it's almost impossible to displace some

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Speaker 4: of this teaching as children grow up, because we all

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Speaker 4: know the old Jesue at Mantra, give us the child

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Speaker 4: till there's seven, and I'll give you the man. And

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Speaker 4: that's what's happening in education, or had been happening under

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Speaker 4: the previous government. Fortunately that is now being rectified significantly

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Speaker 4: by the present government, but it's going to take a

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Speaker 4: very long time, and there is now a whole generation

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Speaker 4: of young people who have been taught this stuff and

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Speaker 4: believe it, and the story goes on. I mean, we

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Speaker 4: saw it during COVID how medicine was politicized, without going

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Speaker 4: into detail, a so called poolput of truth dictated what

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Speaker 4: we would do with our lives. We would be locked up,

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Speaker 4: and we would have to have if injections of a

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Speaker 4: substance if we wanted to continue to live a relatively

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Speaker 4: normal life and so on. And that harks back to

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Speaker 4: what you were saying about Ashley Bloomfield and the who

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Speaker 4: and this sinister proposition that medicine is no longer the

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Speaker 4: curing of the sick, it is now part of the

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Speaker 4: national security complex which governs our lives.

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Speaker 3: Well, I was going to leave that till later, but

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Speaker 3: seeing that you've raised the article of that that that

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Speaker 3: came from was by Rob McCulloch, who was on the

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Speaker 3: podcast about six weeks ago, and is Sir Ashley Bloomfield

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Speaker 3: arguing in the New Zealand Medical Journal that this nation

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Speaker 3: should be turned into a police state. For the next

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Speaker 3: in brackets inevitable Rose Bragget pandemic and I mean, let's

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Speaker 3: ask us a question. But the direction that the article

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Speaker 3: takes is very obvious. Yes, and this this is a

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Speaker 3: I can only put it this way. This is an

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Speaker 3: individual that caused chaos as far as I'm concerned, in

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Speaker 3: this country or contributed to it greatly, and has for

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Speaker 3: whatever reason, been awarded a knighthood for it, and then

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Speaker 3: gone on to even greater height at the World Health

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Speaker 3: Organization and is now attempting to expand what he first

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Speaker 3: achieved here will.

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Speaker 4: Be absolutely and it wasn't really apparent from his public utterances.

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Speaker 4: But looking back we know what was behind all this,

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Speaker 4: and that was, as I just mentioned, utilizing what turned

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Speaker 4: out to be a relatively unharmful German if you like,

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Speaker 4: or whatever, measured in terms of the number of people

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Speaker 4: who died, which were very few. Indeed, that was used

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Speaker 4: as a front for closing down New Zealand society. It

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Speaker 4: hasn't it has never happened in the history of this

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Speaker 4: country that people were locked up in their houses for

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Speaker 4: their own good. The people had to take medicine for

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Speaker 4: their own good and so on. And to think that

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Speaker 4: there it is now becoming a derigue in these international

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Speaker 4: organizations is indeed very worrying. And of course the Americans

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Speaker 4: have just said, Nope, we're not having a bar of that.

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Speaker 4: We'll determine our own health policies, thank you. But I'm

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Speaker 4: not sure what our governments do about it. They haven't

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Speaker 4: said yet.

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Speaker 3: No. I suspect they're being blown in the direction that

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Speaker 3: the Bloomfield would desire. You're right, and well, I hope

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Speaker 3: I'm wrong, but I think I'm right. Anyway, let me

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Speaker 3: go back to just to a bit of history, because

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Speaker 3: this is part of what you were saying is affected kids.

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Speaker 3: You're right after having listed the flowering of free thought

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Speaker 3: and curiosity otherwise known as the Enlightenment, and listed all

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Speaker 3: those things philosophy, law, democracy, medicine, education, freedom of expression, music,

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Speaker 3: economics and technology, etc. All of which are underpinned by

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Speaker 3: unhindered rational thought. That was the social contract Captain Hobson

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Speaker 3: brought to these shores in eighteen forty. It remained the

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Speaker 3: social norm since, but is now as much under threat

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Speaker 3: here as it is throughout the Western world. The threats

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Speaker 3: are numerous and growing, and they assail enlightened thought and

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Speaker 3: practice on all sides. It begins with the degradation of

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Speaker 3: our shared history. Do you think that those who are

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Speaker 3: pushing the shared history are aware of what they're doing.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, they're aware that to quote day cart that I think,

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Speaker 4: therefore I am, which was probably the mantra that was

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Speaker 4: at the heart of the Enlightenment, because he said I think,

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Speaker 4: therefore I am. Not what do I read therefore I am?

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Speaker 4: Or not? What do I listen to other people telling

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Speaker 4: me therefore I am? He promoted rational thought, and that

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Speaker 4: is the one strength that those who would upset and

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Speaker 4: destabilize our way of life have to counter. For as

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Speaker 4: long as people are free to think rather than just

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Speaker 4: listen to what other people tell them, then they're going

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Speaker 4: to get nowhere. These people who would wreak so much

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Speaker 4: damage on society, so they do they begin by attacking the.

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Speaker 3: Enlightenment, indeed, just talking about thinking. There was a well

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Speaker 3: known philosopher I believe, who write a book called I Drink,

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Speaker 3: Therefore I Am. It was a book on wine, of course,

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Speaker 3: so you cover that by saying it's now fashionable at

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Speaker 3: all levels of society to denigrate this process as the

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Speaker 3: product of whiteness and the oppression which accompanied it. And

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Speaker 3: you say, the Marxists are well aware of this crucial

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Speaker 3: fact as they seek to replace history with lies which

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Speaker 3: benefit the growth of the state to the detriment of

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Speaker 3: the individual. Are we being across the board too easily

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Speaker 3: seduced to comply with to comply and even vote for

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Speaker 3: this approach.

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Speaker 4: Well, well, I think we have been, because we must

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Speaker 4: be among the most complacent societies on the planet. Really,

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Speaker 4: when you when you look back to think of the

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Speaker 4: strengths of our society and the things we came to

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Speaker 4: rely on, our democracy and the rule of law and

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Speaker 4: education and all that sort of stuff, and we just

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Speaker 4: assumed that would go on forever. And when it was

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Speaker 4: attacked as it was in the last three years of

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Speaker 4: the so called Labor government, nobody seemed to well, very

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Speaker 4: few people seem to notice, and that encouraged those who

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Speaker 4: would replace it with something else to continue with the work.

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Speaker 4: I don't think it's going to go on. I'm confident

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Speaker 4: that with the new coalition government that we will reverse this,

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Speaker 4: but it's going to take time and it's not going

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Speaker 4: to be easy.

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Speaker 3: Correct and it will be thought, I believe by those

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Speaker 3: in the education system who have had a contribution to

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Speaker 3: driving it.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely. But I've got a lot of confidence in the

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Speaker 4: present Minister of Education and her deputy, yes David Seymour,

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Speaker 4: that they do they will do this. I'm quite confidence.

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Speaker 3: He's my legal member, and I've never met her or

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Speaker 3: spoken to her. It's probably time we got her on you.

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Speaker 3: So we covered the education, then you hit on politicized

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Speaker 3: medicine wherever possible, by introducing racial considerations into the availability

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Speaker 3: of treatment and by supplanting the independence of the medical

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Speaker 3: profession to best manage their patients by substituting state intervention.

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Speaker 3: Can I just relate to you a little example. My doctor,

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Speaker 3: my own doctor, rang me a few months ago and

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Speaker 3: he was distraught, and I wondered, what the hell is wrong?

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Speaker 3: And it turned out that he'd just been dealing with

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Speaker 3: the department because of an aged patient of his, a

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Speaker 3: woman who needed certain assistance. But she didn't qualify on

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Speaker 3: the age front, because if you were Marie, you were

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Speaker 3: entitled to it in your fifties. She was seventy two,

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Speaker 3: I believe, and she wasn't entitled to it. And he

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Speaker 3: rang me, and really all he wanted to do was

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Speaker 3: just talk to somebody and get it off his chest.

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Speaker 3: And I saw, or heard rather the desperation in his voice,

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Speaker 3: which was which ran a parallel with what I've been

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Speaker 3: told by other doctors, but not quite so emotionally as this,

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Speaker 3: because there was nothing that he could do for the

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Speaker 3: woman without the Health department's contribution. Yes, so there we

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Speaker 3: are politicizing medicine. Have you got anything else in mind

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Speaker 3: besides what we went through in COVID.

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Speaker 4: Well, yes, they pushed towards wards rationing medicine on the

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Speaker 4: basis of ethnicity. Now that is a essentially a political

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Speaker 4: notion because it divides society and you divide and rule.

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Speaker 4: That became the norm under the previous government. And indeed

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Speaker 4: you ticked a box where you went along declaring what

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Speaker 4: you're whether or not you had marry ethnicity, and unfortunately

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Speaker 4: that is still alive. And well, I mean, one is

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Speaker 4: these stories of just recently on this week, I heard

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Speaker 4: of a woman who went along to a surgery and

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Speaker 4: the first question was what is your ethnicity? I can't,

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Speaker 4: for the life of me now understand why any doctor

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Speaker 4: or nurse would be remotely interested in that because the

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Speaker 4: government has made it abundantly clear that that is no

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Speaker 4: longer a relevant consideration. But it gives an indication of

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Speaker 4: just how deep seated these things became, bearing in mind

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Speaker 4: after only three years of indoctrination.

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Speaker 3: Indeed, moving on to the seeking to destabilize the legal

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Speaker 3: systems as you feel, of course for most of your life.

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Speaker 3: Is it and we've discussed it before, But is it

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Speaker 3: better now, worse now, or still much in the same place?

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Speaker 4: Well, latent, it's hard to know how to describe this now,

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Speaker 4: but except to say it's incomparably worse, I suppose you

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Speaker 4: saw murial human She conducts these polls the end of

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Speaker 4: her series of articles on any given week, and one

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Speaker 4: of them, one of the questions was have you any

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Speaker 4: confidence in the judiciary? Ninety eight percent of the respondent

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Speaker 4: said no, they have no confidence now in the judiciary.

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Speaker 4: I mean, that is a truly appalling statistic, because unless

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Speaker 4: people believe that when things go wrong and they need

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Speaker 4: to invoke the law, they can go along to a

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Speaker 4: court and have a hearing before an impartial tribunal, well

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Speaker 4: that opens the way to anarchy. Really, so people would

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Speaker 4: instead of going along a court will make their own arrangements,

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Speaker 4: and we're back with U two and all that goes

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Speaker 4: with that. This destabilization is now very apparent in the universities,

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Speaker 4: in the law societies, and on the judiciary, and we

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Speaker 4: have this concerted push to introduce notions of spiritual beliefs

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Speaker 4: into the law called tea care, whatever that means, because

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Speaker 4: if you look at the dictionary, you'll get at least

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Speaker 4: a dozen different meanings, so that the law which the

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Speaker 4: judges then are expected to administer will no longer be

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Speaker 4: knowable in advance, it will no longer be certain, and

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Speaker 4: it will no longer be applicable to everybody who appears

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Speaker 4: before them. Now that's something which of course goes in

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Speaker 4: one ear and out the other for most people as

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Speaker 4: they get on with their lives, you can't blame them

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Speaker 4: until they want to invoke the law. And if this

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Speaker 4: continues unchecked, are going to be in serious trouble with

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Speaker 4: that pillar of our way of life, that is the

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Speaker 4: legal system. And if very I think there's every indication

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Speaker 4: at the moment that the present Attorney General is deeply

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Speaker 4: conscious of this, and my hope is that she will

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Speaker 4: do all she can to ensure that the sort of

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Speaker 4: people who are pointed to the judiciary at all levels

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Speaker 4: are not subject to these temptations of imposing their own

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Speaker 4: private thoughts and mores on the public. But it's it's

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Speaker 4: a long process because these people are there for they

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Speaker 4: could there for twenty years and in that time can

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Speaker 4: do a lot of damage. And that is why to

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Speaker 4: preserve I'm sorry to go on, but that is why,

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Speaker 4: to preserve the integrity of the legal system, we need

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Speaker 4: legislation which will make it abundantly clear that tribal practices

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Speaker 4: are not part of the common law of New Zealand

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Speaker 4: and that will stop certain members of our judiciary at

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Speaker 4: the highest levels. It's one of your previous interviewees expand

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Speaker 4: expanded upon. It'll stop this business of Oh, I think

302
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Speaker 4: it would be a good idea if we gave tribal

303
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Speaker 4: society a bit of a leg up by introducing tea

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Speaker 4: cager into the common law. It can't happen. If it does,

305
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Speaker 4: we will not have a legal system.

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Speaker 3: Well, if you don't have a legal system, you've got chaos.

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Speaker 4: Exactly.

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Speaker 3: Can you give me a warning, you know, enough time

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Speaker 3: to sell the house and bolt. Yeah, well, actually, actually,

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Speaker 3: just looking at looking at your article, you finish up

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Speaker 3: on the legal system. To the socialists, it's an outcome

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Speaker 3: necessary if existing social norms are to be destroyed, is

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Speaker 3: your final sentence. And then I turned the page and

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Speaker 3: read introduce chaos into the sovereign Parliament.

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Speaker 4: Yes, well, Winston Peters has been drawing attention to this recently.

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Speaker 4: I mean, for most people, they took them again, they

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Speaker 4: took their parliament for granted. They assumed it would be

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Speaker 4: a place of relatively rational debate, where the members attempted

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Speaker 4: to rely upon facts, and that they preserve the dignity

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Speaker 4: of the place. I mean to look at a parliament

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Speaker 4: on television now, it's so embarrassing. As Winston points out,

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Speaker 4: people make no attempt to dressed respectfully. That's showing some

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Speaker 4: respect for the institution they're in. They shout each other down.

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Speaker 3: That's not unusual though on a global basis, no it's not.

325
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Speaker 4: But it's big gaining impetus since the last election or

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Speaker 4: the previous election.

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Speaker 3: For anybody who's not following it like you are and

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Speaker 3: watching parliament a regular basis. Has the abuse become more savage, Yes.

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Speaker 4: It has, but it's become more irrational too.

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Speaker 3: Well. They go hand in hand on you.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And that's the worry again. It's the flight

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Speaker 4: of reason. And once that goes out the window, once

333
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Speaker 4: people stop relying on rational thought, well we all nowhere

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Speaker 4: it will end up.

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Speaker 3: Well, the flight of reason is a is a wonderful

336
00:26:36,013 --> 00:26:40,293
Speaker 3: little quote and it's applicable on a number of fronts.

337
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Speaker 3: Subverting the common language. And this is an easy one,

338
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Speaker 3: and it's the shortest one of the points that you

339
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Speaker 3: go into for I think obvious reasons, because it's steering

340
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Speaker 3: you in the face no matter where or what you do.

341
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Speaker 4: Well, yes, we have enjoyed the English language as a

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Speaker 4: common language. Now that's just an accident of history. There's

343
00:27:04,653 --> 00:27:13,813
Speaker 4: nothing particularly that's necessary or good about that, but it

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Speaker 4: just so happens. We've got it, and for the last

345
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Speaker 4: one hundred and forty odd years it's been our common language.

346
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Speaker 4: But within the last ten years there's been this movement

347
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Speaker 4: towards inventing a new language by using marry words to

348
00:27:38,293 --> 00:27:44,773
Speaker 4: describe concepts which were utterly outside of their experience at

349
00:27:44,813 --> 00:27:52,333
Speaker 4: the time their language was being developed. Now that's not

350
00:27:52,413 --> 00:27:57,093
Speaker 4: to say that their language shouldn't be preserved. By all means,

351
00:27:57,093 --> 00:28:01,293
Speaker 4: it must be preserved, but you don't take it and

352
00:28:01,373 --> 00:28:10,333
Speaker 4: then bastardize another language with words that have cannot have

353
00:28:10,453 --> 00:28:14,773
Speaker 4: had any meaning at the time these particular words were

354
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Speaker 4: first thought up. And as I think I've said to

355
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Speaker 4: you before, my favorite is moto car m O t

356
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Speaker 4: O k A. Now that that just illustrates the sort

357
00:28:30,293 --> 00:28:32,173
Speaker 4: of thing that's going on. And to walk into a

358
00:28:33,173 --> 00:28:40,693
Speaker 4: coffee shop and see a sign outside which says kof

359
00:28:40,933 --> 00:28:47,253
Speaker 4: ee and in brackets underneath a noun and underneath that coffee.

360
00:28:47,653 --> 00:28:50,613
Speaker 4: I mean, it's just silly, really, and it's demeaning to

361
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Speaker 4: the Mari language, which should be kept intact for those

362
00:28:55,133 --> 00:28:59,053
Speaker 4: who want to learn it as it as it was,

363
00:28:59,213 --> 00:29:02,693
Speaker 4: and speaking if they wish. But however it's happening.

364
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Speaker 3: Subject of science, of course, as you say, is at

365
00:29:12,653 --> 00:29:17,053
Speaker 3: the very heart of the Enlightenment, and I don't know

366
00:29:17,093 --> 00:29:20,413
Speaker 3: anybody who would argue with that. The corruption of science

367
00:29:20,493 --> 00:29:23,653
Speaker 3: is now widespread. For example, it is now widely accepted

368
00:29:23,693 --> 00:29:27,293
Speaker 3: in increasingly influential circles that rivers are no longer nature's

369
00:29:27,333 --> 00:29:30,853
Speaker 3: way of draining rainwater and snow melt from high places

370
00:29:30,853 --> 00:29:33,933
Speaker 3: to the sea, but they have some spiritual quality which

371
00:29:34,013 --> 00:29:37,173
Speaker 3: must be taken into account in planning and control of

372
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Speaker 3: catchments and fresh water usage. I didn't mean to read

373
00:29:40,573 --> 00:29:46,053
Speaker 3: all that, but once I started, I needed to anti science.

374
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Speaker 3: You might call it in general, How does it? Well,

375
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Speaker 3: I know of examples, and so I have a somewhat

376
00:29:53,813 --> 00:29:56,253
Speaker 3: of a grasp on it. When it comes to professions

377
00:29:56,293 --> 00:30:02,693
Speaker 3: like engineering, which is a science, there is an undermining

378
00:30:02,853 --> 00:30:06,733
Speaker 3: of the basis of it to an extent that is

379
00:30:07,773 --> 00:30:13,053
Speaker 3: unwarrant and could see some dangerous things happen in buildings

380
00:30:13,053 --> 00:30:15,213
Speaker 3: in the future. Mind you, we haven't been too good

381
00:30:15,213 --> 00:30:22,853
Speaker 3: at adhering to strict buildology work Byward over the past

382
00:30:22,853 --> 00:30:27,333
Speaker 3: few decades. But expand on that of how science is concerned, would.

383
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Speaker 4: You, yes, Well, I think the attitude of the Royal

384
00:30:31,893 --> 00:30:38,413
Speaker 4: Society of New Zealand to that. I forget his name now,

385
00:30:38,453 --> 00:30:41,053
Speaker 4: but he was an eminent scientist, and he also had

386
00:30:42,333 --> 00:30:49,173
Speaker 4: qualifications of sympathetic involvement with the Marie community. And he

387
00:30:49,253 --> 00:30:52,213
Speaker 4: wrote an article in which he castigates, in which he

388
00:30:52,773 --> 00:30:58,853
Speaker 4: pointed out that the introduce the introduction of these sort

389
00:30:58,933 --> 00:31:04,053
Speaker 4: of spiritual values as the equivalent of science and as

390
00:31:04,093 --> 00:31:08,853
Speaker 4: a part of science, would only end up denigrating science,

391
00:31:09,013 --> 00:31:13,773
Speaker 4: and it would put this country back economically and socially

392
00:31:15,213 --> 00:31:22,053
Speaker 4: to the dark ages. Really, And I've always remembered when

393
00:31:22,093 --> 00:31:25,853
Speaker 4: I was doing environment court cases, one of the judges

394
00:31:25,893 --> 00:31:28,373
Speaker 4: coming to me and saying he had a problem. That

395
00:31:29,533 --> 00:31:33,893
Speaker 4: he was doing a case involving the Waikato River and

396
00:31:33,933 --> 00:31:36,733
Speaker 4: a gentleman has turned up and said, well, you can't

397
00:31:36,773 --> 00:31:41,293
Speaker 4: grant this because it would offend the tanny fires, and

398
00:31:41,413 --> 00:31:44,933
Speaker 4: he didn't quite know how to deal with that because

399
00:31:44,933 --> 00:31:47,653
Speaker 4: he didn't quite know what they were or what their

400
00:31:47,733 --> 00:31:51,093
Speaker 4: standing was in the proceedings inside. It just makes a

401
00:31:51,133 --> 00:31:56,973
Speaker 4: nonsense of the whole thing. So it's happening, and again

402
00:31:57,013 --> 00:32:03,453
Speaker 4: it's just something else that somehow the government and society

403
00:32:03,973 --> 00:32:04,973
Speaker 4: has got to deal with.

404
00:32:05,893 --> 00:32:09,693
Speaker 3: And it won't be it won't be simple. Talking of standing,

405
00:32:11,453 --> 00:32:14,493
Speaker 3: the first time I heard that word being used in

406
00:32:14,533 --> 00:32:18,893
Speaker 3: the sense that you are using it was with a

407
00:32:18,933 --> 00:32:22,893
Speaker 3: Supreme Court in America who denied denied a hearing to

408
00:32:22,933 --> 00:32:27,573
Speaker 3: somebody because they didn't have standing. So would it be possible,

409
00:32:27,613 --> 00:32:31,973
Speaker 3: for instance, would it be legitimate for that judge who

410
00:32:32,053 --> 00:32:36,093
Speaker 3: you just described to say simply, I'm sorry, but tanaphars

411
00:32:36,133 --> 00:32:38,733
Speaker 3: don't have standing, or any judge to say it tanaphars

412
00:32:38,733 --> 00:32:39,493
Speaker 3: don't have standing.

413
00:32:40,093 --> 00:32:47,493
Speaker 4: Yes, that's exactly what he did. Yes, these cases are

414
00:32:47,493 --> 00:32:51,893
Speaker 4: concerned with provable facts, not miss well.

415
00:32:51,893 --> 00:32:54,133
Speaker 3: That leaves me wondering whether the judge wasn't as bright

416
00:32:54,173 --> 00:32:57,333
Speaker 3: as he should be, or I'm brighter than I thought.

417
00:32:58,733 --> 00:32:59,733
Speaker 4: It was a good judge.

418
00:33:00,053 --> 00:33:06,133
Speaker 3: Good look, there is there is. You've mentioned the Royal Society,

419
00:33:06,173 --> 00:33:11,813
Speaker 3: the Engineers Society, whatever it's called, has fallen in down

420
00:33:11,853 --> 00:33:17,253
Speaker 3: the same rabbit hole. Yes, and it's causing. It's causing

421
00:33:17,453 --> 00:33:21,133
Speaker 3: in the lives and minds of a couple of people.

422
00:33:21,173 --> 00:33:23,573
Speaker 3: I know, some ridiculous situations.

423
00:33:24,333 --> 00:33:28,093
Speaker 4: Yes. Yes, I've got a very close friend who's a

424
00:33:28,133 --> 00:33:33,813
Speaker 4: retired civil engineer many years standing, who's had to tell

425
00:33:33,893 --> 00:33:38,613
Speaker 4: his institute please stop sending me this publication monthly because

426
00:33:38,813 --> 00:33:41,973
Speaker 4: I'm afraid I can't read most of the language is

427
00:33:42,013 --> 00:33:45,933
Speaker 4: written in and very little of it's got to do

428
00:33:46,093 --> 00:33:49,253
Speaker 4: anything to do with engineering, whether or not the bridge

429
00:33:49,253 --> 00:33:52,613
Speaker 4: stays up or the sewerage system works.

430
00:33:52,973 --> 00:33:55,573
Speaker 3: That's what i'm That's what I'm told by somebody who

431
00:33:55,653 --> 00:33:58,093
Speaker 3: is who is at the top of the game.

432
00:33:58,813 --> 00:34:02,293
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, Oh it's happening, There's no question about it.

433
00:34:02,413 --> 00:34:05,773
Speaker 3: Global warming is your is your next suggestion? The subject

434
00:34:05,813 --> 00:34:07,893
Speaker 3: of whether why did you include global.

435
00:34:07,573 --> 00:34:13,053
Speaker 4: Warming because, as I say in the article, for me,

436
00:34:13,213 --> 00:34:17,173
Speaker 4: it's the poster child of the journey away from science

437
00:34:18,173 --> 00:34:20,973
Speaker 4: and from it's the poster child of the journey away

438
00:34:21,013 --> 00:34:26,413
Speaker 4: from Descartes. I think therefore, I am because people who

439
00:34:26,893 --> 00:34:30,853
Speaker 4: believe in it only believe, well, they believe, which is

440
00:34:30,893 --> 00:34:35,493
Speaker 4: a religious concept, but they only believe what they read

441
00:34:35,853 --> 00:34:40,573
Speaker 4: or what other people tell them. People who question it

442
00:34:41,453 --> 00:34:44,373
Speaker 4: do some they do their thinking, and then they look

443
00:34:44,453 --> 00:34:49,853
Speaker 4: to the facts and what's provable and what's not. And

444
00:34:51,453 --> 00:34:54,293
Speaker 4: the result is, and it harks back to what we

445
00:34:54,293 --> 00:34:58,013
Speaker 4: were talking about earlier. This is one of the new

446
00:34:58,173 --> 00:35:02,933
Speaker 4: constraints on society and on free thought, that if you

447
00:35:03,093 --> 00:35:07,013
Speaker 4: don't believe in global warming, then you are a danger

448
00:35:07,533 --> 00:35:11,253
Speaker 4: and you are miss informing the public, and it's got

449
00:35:11,253 --> 00:35:17,973
Speaker 4: to stop. And you'll recall that President Obama's climate czar

450
00:35:18,653 --> 00:35:23,493
Speaker 4: was a fellow John Kerry. I heard it. I sat

451
00:35:23,533 --> 00:35:29,293
Speaker 4: and watched him say this that he's deeply concerned about

452
00:35:29,333 --> 00:35:33,373
Speaker 4: the effect of the First Amendment to the American Constitution,

453
00:35:34,453 --> 00:35:39,733
Speaker 4: which of course ensured freedom of thought and expression, and

454
00:35:39,933 --> 00:35:43,853
Speaker 4: he thought that that was a license for misinformation and

455
00:35:43,893 --> 00:35:47,933
Speaker 4: it's got to stop. And he actually canvas ways in

456
00:35:48,093 --> 00:35:53,293
Speaker 4: which the Senate and the House could engineer the repeal

457
00:35:53,333 --> 00:35:59,373
Speaker 4: of the First Amendment. So global warming isn't just something

458
00:35:59,453 --> 00:36:06,253
Speaker 4: that's interesting to commentate us. It has this lurking danger

459
00:36:06,933 --> 00:36:10,253
Speaker 4: as well in terms of of freedom of thought and

460
00:36:10,333 --> 00:36:14,093
Speaker 4: freedom of expression. As I say, it's a religious concept.

461
00:36:16,253 --> 00:36:20,653
Speaker 4: And I was appalled at the treatment given to Maureen

462
00:36:20,813 --> 00:36:25,493
Speaker 4: pu the Member for the West Coast for National was disgusting,

463
00:36:26,693 --> 00:36:29,573
Speaker 4: absolutely appalling, and she was hung out to dry because

464
00:36:29,613 --> 00:36:32,213
Speaker 4: all she said was that she's waiting for the evidence

465
00:36:32,333 --> 00:36:36,253
Speaker 4: on what caused the bad weather on the East Coast.

466
00:36:36,733 --> 00:36:40,293
Speaker 4: And that really alarms me that we have in the

467
00:36:40,373 --> 00:36:46,773
Speaker 4: House a number of senior MPs who were quite unashamed

468
00:36:46,773 --> 00:36:50,453
Speaker 4: of you tell you what I believe in global warming. Well,

469
00:36:50,493 --> 00:36:53,173
Speaker 4: you can go along and believe in whatever you like,

470
00:36:53,333 --> 00:36:54,893
Speaker 4: but let's get some facts.

471
00:36:57,013 --> 00:37:00,533
Speaker 3: It's timely that I read earlier today in an article

472
00:37:00,573 --> 00:37:02,413
Speaker 3: which I don't have in front of me. I wasn't

473
00:37:02,453 --> 00:37:05,373
Speaker 3: going to I wasn't going to utilize it. And it

474
00:37:05,413 --> 00:37:10,893
Speaker 3: refers to the article refers to a new study that

475
00:37:10,973 --> 00:37:17,333
Speaker 3: has just been released and there is no evidence of

476
00:37:17,493 --> 00:37:21,533
Speaker 3: global warming since the nineteen seventies. In spite of it says,

477
00:37:21,613 --> 00:37:26,693
Speaker 3: in spite of the so called records in Europe last year,

478
00:37:28,253 --> 00:37:30,973
Speaker 3: this is all from memory, they say. You won't read this,

479
00:37:31,053 --> 00:37:34,813
Speaker 3: of course in the mainstream media. But not just a report.

480
00:37:35,173 --> 00:37:38,373
Speaker 3: It's a major study put together by a bunch of

481
00:37:38,373 --> 00:37:39,933
Speaker 3: serious scientists.

482
00:37:41,213 --> 00:37:46,933
Speaker 4: But that's the concern in this particular area, Lasan that

483
00:37:47,573 --> 00:37:52,213
Speaker 4: how on Earth any rational person can believe that a

484
00:37:52,293 --> 00:37:57,733
Speaker 4: gas which surprises no point not four percent of total

485
00:37:59,013 --> 00:38:04,973
Speaker 4: atmospheric gases, and which is crucial for the continuation of

486
00:38:05,053 --> 00:38:12,573
Speaker 4: life on the planet, could be causing the Earth's climate

487
00:38:13,133 --> 00:38:17,613
Speaker 4: to change. And I have not the slightest doubt that

488
00:38:17,653 --> 00:38:22,013
Speaker 4: the Earth's climate changes continually. And you've only got to

489
00:38:22,013 --> 00:38:26,453
Speaker 4: look back through more recent history to see the freezing

490
00:38:26,533 --> 00:38:31,173
Speaker 4: of the Thames and the medieval warming period and sun

491
00:38:32,453 --> 00:38:35,653
Speaker 4: that's unexceptional when you think we're just a rock hurling

492
00:38:35,693 --> 00:38:44,173
Speaker 4: around in space with a core that's molten rock, subject

493
00:38:44,253 --> 00:38:47,573
Speaker 4: to all the outside influences and the elliptical are but

494
00:38:47,653 --> 00:38:51,053
Speaker 4: and all that sort of stuff. But the people who

495
00:38:51,093 --> 00:38:55,213
Speaker 4: believe in this that they're not interested in the facts.

496
00:38:56,333 --> 00:38:59,333
Speaker 4: And that's where it comes back to the flight from

497
00:38:59,693 --> 00:39:04,373
Speaker 4: the enlightenment and reason. Once you depart from the facts,

498
00:39:05,893 --> 00:39:09,213
Speaker 4: you're lost. You're in a swamp, not.

499
00:39:09,293 --> 00:39:14,053
Speaker 3: Just in Washington. I actually I let to come back

500
00:39:14,053 --> 00:39:17,733
Speaker 3: to that subject briefly. When we conclude one of my

501
00:39:17,813 --> 00:39:21,653
Speaker 3: favorites is next, the mainstream media take it away.

502
00:39:22,373 --> 00:39:24,733
Speaker 4: Well, it's just a disgrace at the moment, isn't it.

503
00:39:24,853 --> 00:39:29,493
Speaker 4: I mean, examples are they crop up every night on

504
00:39:29,773 --> 00:39:36,293
Speaker 4: on say TV end Z one news in a news

505
00:39:36,373 --> 00:39:41,413
Speaker 4: bulletin which maybe comprises half an hour of so called news.

506
00:39:42,373 --> 00:39:47,373
Speaker 4: To spend ten minutes dwelling upon some unfortunate young man

507
00:39:47,413 --> 00:39:50,813
Speaker 4: who filled himself up with drugs and alcohol and fell

508
00:39:50,853 --> 00:39:56,893
Speaker 4: off a balcony in Barcelona is to be utterly absurd

509
00:39:57,013 --> 00:40:01,733
Speaker 4: when there are so many things going on that cry

510
00:40:01,813 --> 00:40:08,813
Speaker 4: out for reporting and informing the public. Not a bit

511
00:40:08,853 --> 00:40:16,293
Speaker 4: surprised that the state broadcaster is in dire straits.

512
00:40:16,453 --> 00:40:17,173
Speaker 3: Should it be solved?

513
00:40:18,133 --> 00:40:23,093
Speaker 4: The trouble is, well, who would buy it? The trouble

514
00:40:23,213 --> 00:40:26,773
Speaker 4: is what are you a place with? Wouldn't it be

515
00:40:26,773 --> 00:40:31,933
Speaker 4: better just to ensure that the board takes control of

516
00:40:31,973 --> 00:40:36,013
Speaker 4: the thing and they only employ Well, first of all,

517
00:40:36,013 --> 00:40:39,093
Speaker 4: they have a code of conduct which requires them all

518
00:40:39,173 --> 00:40:44,213
Speaker 4: to act impartially and fairly and so on, and need

519
00:40:44,293 --> 00:40:47,253
Speaker 4: to only employ people who are capable of complying with

520
00:40:47,293 --> 00:40:47,933
Speaker 4: that code.

521
00:40:48,053 --> 00:40:51,173
Speaker 3: Well, there's a couple of things I'd suggest. First of all,

522
00:40:51,213 --> 00:40:56,093
Speaker 3: in Australia, the ABC, where they have a much larger population,

523
00:40:56,293 --> 00:41:06,253
Speaker 3: much much broader selection possibility of appointees. The ABC is

524
00:41:06,893 --> 00:41:10,773
Speaker 3: run by the journal The news division is run by

525
00:41:10,813 --> 00:41:15,813
Speaker 3: the journalists and not the board. They one or two

526
00:41:15,853 --> 00:41:19,893
Speaker 3: have tried to make amendments and they fail because the

527
00:41:20,773 --> 00:41:26,213
Speaker 3: staff believe that they own it. And so the situation here,

528
00:41:26,573 --> 00:41:30,413
Speaker 3: of course is that we have a much more limited

529
00:41:30,893 --> 00:41:33,053
Speaker 3: pool to choose people from it. I'm budding whether there

530
00:41:33,053 --> 00:41:38,973
Speaker 3: would be anyone, if not enough, who would be game

531
00:41:39,093 --> 00:41:42,413
Speaker 3: enough to put their lives on the line, I mean

532
00:41:42,413 --> 00:41:44,013
Speaker 3: their professional lives.

533
00:41:44,373 --> 00:41:48,213
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, Well, I think if it had a board

534
00:41:48,333 --> 00:41:55,853
Speaker 4: that was sufficiently rigorous and kept a close eye on

535
00:41:56,453 --> 00:41:59,093
Speaker 4: almost on a daily basis, of what was being said

536
00:41:59,173 --> 00:42:03,373
Speaker 4: or done, then these people could be called out. And

537
00:42:04,493 --> 00:42:06,813
Speaker 4: I think human nature being what it is, they'd get

538
00:42:06,853 --> 00:42:08,853
Speaker 4: the message if they want to keep it job and

539
00:42:09,253 --> 00:42:14,773
Speaker 4: earn a living, and that they would change their attitude

540
00:42:14,893 --> 00:42:19,613
Speaker 4: to Well. For example, they're reporting of politics in New Zealand,

541
00:42:20,133 --> 00:42:24,573
Speaker 4: which is so one sided it's just a joke really, But.

542
00:42:24,653 --> 00:42:26,773
Speaker 3: What would be the what would be the case after

543
00:42:26,813 --> 00:42:33,253
Speaker 3: the after they change government, after we change government at

544
00:42:33,293 --> 00:42:36,973
Speaker 3: an excellent to just revert back again absolutely, because there

545
00:42:37,013 --> 00:42:40,173
Speaker 3: is no sorry, there is no we'll use a shipping

546
00:42:40,213 --> 00:42:43,533
Speaker 3: term here, there is no solid draft on that ship.

547
00:42:44,293 --> 00:42:47,933
Speaker 4: No, no, And that's that's a risk that we do run.

548
00:42:48,653 --> 00:42:52,853
Speaker 4: But as the previous labor lot showed, my word, you

549
00:42:52,893 --> 00:42:57,653
Speaker 4: can embed some stuff very very quickly, and hopefully this

550
00:42:57,853 --> 00:43:02,133
Speaker 4: present coalition government is there long enough to embed the

551
00:43:02,173 --> 00:43:05,013
Speaker 4: sort of thing we're talking about, so it becomes the norm.

552
00:43:06,253 --> 00:43:09,253
Speaker 4: But it's pretty fragile here we are.

553
00:43:09,533 --> 00:43:09,613
Speaker 2: Ye.

554
00:43:10,453 --> 00:43:14,493
Speaker 3: So freedom of association is you're the next on your list,

555
00:43:14,933 --> 00:43:21,653
Speaker 3: and I think we've probably covered that rearably well. So democracy, well, I.

556
00:43:21,653 --> 00:43:25,373
Speaker 4: Left that in the economy to the end, because if

557
00:43:25,413 --> 00:43:30,853
Speaker 4: you're going to impose a sort of communist Marxist type

558
00:43:31,933 --> 00:43:35,493
Speaker 4: government on a country, the thing you've got to do

559
00:43:35,573 --> 00:43:39,653
Speaker 4: first is to destabilized democracy with a view to getting

560
00:43:39,733 --> 00:43:43,413
Speaker 4: rid of it entirely. And when do you look around

561
00:43:43,413 --> 00:43:50,253
Speaker 4: the world, the democracies, generally speaking are the prosperous and

562
00:43:50,493 --> 00:43:58,133
Speaker 4: relatively settled nations and the other lot the communists are

563
00:43:59,093 --> 00:44:06,013
Speaker 4: continually at odds with themselves with economies that have to

564
00:44:06,053 --> 00:44:11,773
Speaker 4: be by the stolen from from the West, or depends

565
00:44:11,813 --> 00:44:17,053
Speaker 4: substantially on oil. So admitted to me, it's just plain

566
00:44:17,133 --> 00:44:24,093
Speaker 4: as the nose, really that we cannot afford to see

567
00:44:24,853 --> 00:44:29,573
Speaker 4: our democracy placed in jeopardy at all. It's something that

568
00:44:29,653 --> 00:44:32,493
Speaker 4: is that is essential that we fight for it.

569
00:44:33,133 --> 00:44:35,893
Speaker 3: What bothers me about what you just said is that

570
00:44:36,253 --> 00:44:38,253
Speaker 3: I think I'm fair in saying that you need people

571
00:44:38,253 --> 00:44:41,013
Speaker 3: with a certain degree of intelligence to take that on.

572
00:44:41,533 --> 00:44:44,613
Speaker 3: And it seems to me that we might be losing

573
00:44:44,813 --> 00:44:48,373
Speaker 3: most of them. If not, well it'll never be all

574
00:44:48,413 --> 00:44:53,213
Speaker 3: of them, but most of them to overseas. I mean,

575
00:44:53,573 --> 00:44:55,533
Speaker 3: we don't need to go into stories about people we know,

576
00:44:55,613 --> 00:44:59,653
Speaker 3: including our own kids, who have who have not fled

577
00:45:00,613 --> 00:45:01,973
Speaker 3: but don't plan to come back.

578
00:45:02,653 --> 00:45:08,053
Speaker 4: Mm hmm, yeah, that said later. And I still have

579
00:45:08,093 --> 00:45:13,933
Speaker 4: a certain confidence in the so called common man, people

580
00:45:13,973 --> 00:45:17,293
Speaker 4: who know nothing about any of the stuff. But it's

581
00:45:17,293 --> 00:45:20,293
Speaker 4: the old pub test. You know that they know that

582
00:45:20,333 --> 00:45:26,813
Speaker 4: there's something wrong with what's happening and that something needs

583
00:45:26,893 --> 00:45:32,333
Speaker 4: doing about it. And I still think that there is

584
00:45:32,373 --> 00:45:36,693
Speaker 4: a large catchment out there of people who, once they're

585
00:45:36,733 --> 00:45:40,613
Speaker 4: alerted to what's going on, their own sense of common

586
00:45:40,693 --> 00:45:45,413
Speaker 4: sense and fair play will kick in and they will

587
00:45:45,453 --> 00:45:52,413
Speaker 4: start making noises about stopping some of these insidious sort

588
00:45:52,453 --> 00:45:55,133
Speaker 4: of influences that you're subject to at the moment.

589
00:45:55,413 --> 00:45:59,053
Speaker 3: There is more to your article than we have covered,

590
00:45:59,493 --> 00:46:03,653
Speaker 3: but I want to leave it, yeah, because it's it

591
00:46:03,813 --> 00:46:07,453
Speaker 3: to me. Well, we'll explain explain where to get it shortly,

592
00:46:07,853 --> 00:46:09,333
Speaker 3: but I want to I just want to cover a

593
00:46:09,333 --> 00:46:14,853
Speaker 3: couple of other things. Headline the fatal flaw in artificial intelligence.

594
00:46:15,213 --> 00:46:18,013
Speaker 3: If I asked you what it was, you'd give up.

595
00:46:19,693 --> 00:46:21,933
Speaker 3: The answer is it's got a question mark at the

596
00:46:22,013 --> 00:46:25,253
Speaker 3: end of it, climate change. And I want to quote

597
00:46:25,253 --> 00:46:29,853
Speaker 3: you a little of this. AI's role in amplifying dominant

598
00:46:29,933 --> 00:46:34,893
Speaker 3: narratives will continue to stifle dissent, limit open debate, and

599
00:46:35,013 --> 00:46:38,893
Speaker 3: impose restrictive controls on society. If we allow this to

600
00:46:38,933 --> 00:46:42,693
Speaker 3: continue unchecked, AI will become a tool for shaping thought,

601
00:46:43,173 --> 00:46:47,133
Speaker 3: controlling discourse, and eroding the very freedoms it was meant

602
00:46:47,133 --> 00:46:49,893
Speaker 3: to empower. Would you find any fault with that?

603
00:46:50,853 --> 00:46:54,893
Speaker 4: I couldn't agree more. I think part of the problem

604
00:46:55,013 --> 00:46:58,533
Speaker 4: is that people like me anyway, have not the faintest

605
00:46:58,613 --> 00:47:04,573
Speaker 4: idea what I actually is and what it actually does.

606
00:47:06,653 --> 00:47:13,973
Speaker 4: Presumably it's where images and words are manufactured out of, SAIDA.

607
00:47:14,293 --> 00:47:18,933
Speaker 4: I don't know, but I'm concerned about it. Yeah, I

608
00:47:19,013 --> 00:47:19,493
Speaker 4: really am.

609
00:47:19,613 --> 00:47:23,813
Speaker 3: Yes, it could be, it could be controlled. So your

610
00:47:24,053 --> 00:47:29,013
Speaker 3: article is I think, something that should be studied in

611
00:47:29,093 --> 00:47:32,973
Speaker 3: high school, at least I've did serious. It's encompassing to

612
00:47:33,013 --> 00:47:37,213
Speaker 3: the point that it covers everything basically and logically and

613
00:47:37,613 --> 00:47:44,213
Speaker 3: seriously and would cause far greater thought among students than

614
00:47:44,333 --> 00:47:47,493
Speaker 3: anything that they're looking at now. I mean that. I

615
00:47:47,613 --> 00:47:51,093
Speaker 3: mean that very very sincerely. Now, thank you. Jeffrey Tucker,

616
00:47:51,173 --> 00:47:54,773
Speaker 3: who I refer to quite frequently, the founder, apart from

617
00:47:54,813 --> 00:47:59,893
Speaker 3: anything else, the founder of Brownstone Institute, which has become

618
00:48:00,733 --> 00:48:04,453
Speaker 3: a center for information for a lot of people. Yes,

619
00:48:04,853 --> 00:48:08,853
Speaker 3: Jeffrey Tucker wrote something a few days ago, and I

620
00:48:08,933 --> 00:48:14,253
Speaker 3: thought it slotted so beautifully alongside your article that I

621
00:48:14,333 --> 00:48:19,173
Speaker 3: wanted to touch on it. It's headed Globalism and freedom

622
00:48:19,333 --> 00:48:23,933
Speaker 3: do not Mix. And I quote you a little interesting question, why,

623
00:48:24,013 --> 00:48:28,493
Speaker 3: after many multiple decades of only localized migrant issues, most

624
00:48:28,533 --> 00:48:31,533
Speaker 3: having to do with border wars or other disruptions, have

625
00:48:31,733 --> 00:48:35,813
Speaker 3: so many nations at once dealt with floods of people

626
00:48:36,333 --> 00:48:39,613
Speaker 3: exploiting broken migration systems. In other words, how did a

627
00:48:39,613 --> 00:48:42,373
Speaker 3: local problem become a global problem so quickly? How did

628
00:48:42,413 --> 00:48:46,693
Speaker 3: all border systems break at once? And then goes on

629
00:48:47,053 --> 00:48:50,213
Speaker 3: and consider the problem before this one. We had a

630
00:48:50,213 --> 00:48:54,493
Speaker 3: globalized response to the COVID crisis in most nations of

631
00:48:54,533 --> 00:48:58,893
Speaker 3: the world. The policy response was eerily similar. There was masking,

632
00:48:59,493 --> 00:49:03,893
Speaker 3: distancing closures, travel restrictions, and capacity limits, while big business

633
00:49:03,933 --> 00:49:07,693
Speaker 3: was allowed to stay open. The same methods, which have

634
00:49:07,973 --> 00:49:11,413
Speaker 3: no modern precedents, were attempted in all countries in the

635
00:49:11,413 --> 00:49:14,813
Speaker 3: world except a few. Now we can relate to that.

636
00:49:14,813 --> 00:49:17,013
Speaker 3: That's only the beginning, But we can relate to that

637
00:49:17,133 --> 00:49:21,533
Speaker 3: in this country as much as anybody else can anywhere else.

638
00:49:21,573 --> 00:49:26,333
Speaker 3: On the question that the point that he raises grab

639
00:49:26,373 --> 00:49:30,933
Speaker 3: my attention specifically because I asked this question of at

640
00:49:31,013 --> 00:49:37,813
Speaker 3: least two interviewees on the podcast about the coincidence of

641
00:49:38,133 --> 00:49:43,693
Speaker 3: the same approaches being taken in other countries as well

642
00:49:43,693 --> 00:49:47,133
Speaker 3: as ours or ours as other countries, and what this

643
00:49:47,293 --> 00:49:51,293
Speaker 3: copying was all about, and neither of them was happy

644
00:49:51,293 --> 00:49:56,013
Speaker 3: to be agreeable with that. Just coincidence was the bottom line.

645
00:49:56,693 --> 00:50:00,453
Speaker 4: I don't know about you, but I don't believe in coincidence, not.

646
00:50:00,493 --> 00:50:05,013
Speaker 3: Of that nature. No, So the Jeffrey Tucker article is

647
00:50:06,413 --> 00:50:10,813
Speaker 3: a clip on to yours. He goes on and covers

648
00:50:11,253 --> 00:50:17,493
Speaker 3: numerous other aspects, specifically the World Health Organization and what's

649
00:50:17,573 --> 00:50:21,093
Speaker 3: going on with that at the moment, specifically with well,

650
00:50:21,213 --> 00:50:24,413
Speaker 3: maybe i'll quote this. He talks about the nation state.

651
00:50:25,293 --> 00:50:27,573
Speaker 3: And I have a book called The End of the

652
00:50:27,733 --> 00:50:31,693
Speaker 3: Nation State, and it was written in and published in

653
00:50:31,773 --> 00:50:35,693
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety five, and it was determined that the nation

654
00:50:35,773 --> 00:50:38,453
Speaker 3: state was over and was about to finish. Well, it hasn't,

655
00:50:39,373 --> 00:50:42,413
Speaker 3: and it would be an interesting discussion to have separately

656
00:50:42,573 --> 00:50:46,453
Speaker 3: about whether or not we are still moving of late

657
00:50:46,533 --> 00:50:50,493
Speaker 3: in that direction, says all these years later, most people

658
00:50:50,533 --> 00:50:53,133
Speaker 3: in most nations, the United States especially, believes that they

659
00:50:53,173 --> 00:50:55,933
Speaker 3: should have a final say over the structure of the regime.

660
00:50:56,853 --> 00:51:00,453
Speaker 3: This is the essence of the democratic ideal, and not

661
00:51:00,533 --> 00:51:03,373
Speaker 3: as an end in itself, but as a guarranteur of freedom,

662
00:51:03,533 --> 00:51:06,733
Speaker 3: which is the principle that drives the rest. Freedom is

663
00:51:06,773 --> 00:51:09,973
Speaker 3: inseparable from citizen can roll of government. Would you agree

664
00:51:09,973 --> 00:51:11,933
Speaker 3: with that absolutely?

665
00:51:12,933 --> 00:51:14,853
Speaker 4: Will? You really can't have one without the other.

666
00:51:15,893 --> 00:51:19,573
Speaker 3: When that link and that relationship are shattered, freedom itself

667
00:51:19,653 --> 00:51:23,493
Speaker 3: is gravely damaged the world today. Is packed with wealthy

668
00:51:23,533 --> 00:51:28,173
Speaker 3: institutions and individuals who stand and revolt against the ideas

669
00:51:28,173 --> 00:51:31,413
Speaker 3: of freedom and democracy. They do not like the idea

670
00:51:31,453 --> 00:51:37,613
Speaker 3: of geographically constrained states with zones of juridical power. They

671
00:51:37,653 --> 00:51:40,493
Speaker 3: believe that they have a global mission and what to

672
00:51:40,573 --> 00:51:45,013
Speaker 3: empower global institutions against the sovereignty of people living in

673
00:51:45,133 --> 00:51:49,173
Speaker 3: nation states. Now that's all I want to quote. But

674
00:51:49,213 --> 00:51:52,853
Speaker 3: he goes on and covers other things like disease, pandemic threats,

675
00:51:52,853 --> 00:51:59,933
Speaker 3: climate change, etc. As methods of achieving that. Yep, this

676
00:52:00,013 --> 00:52:05,333
Speaker 3: word juridical that I pronounce it rightly, Absolutely it is.

677
00:52:06,373 --> 00:52:10,693
Speaker 3: But it confused me at first. I thought someone had

678
00:52:10,733 --> 00:52:14,013
Speaker 3: made a mistake, a spelling mistake. But I hadn't come

679
00:52:14,053 --> 00:52:16,493
Speaker 3: across it ever. And don't forget I did a couple

680
00:52:16,533 --> 00:52:21,373
Speaker 3: of years of law twice.

681
00:52:21,173 --> 00:52:26,653
Speaker 4: I only did one year twice.

682
00:52:26,213 --> 00:52:28,293
Speaker 3: I think that spells itself out.

683
00:52:28,973 --> 00:52:33,173
Speaker 2: It just means things that judges. Well, it's things that

684
00:52:33,213 --> 00:52:35,093
Speaker 2: are decided in a judging way.

685
00:52:35,333 --> 00:52:38,253
Speaker 3: Really, yes, But it's not commonly used, is it.

686
00:52:38,853 --> 00:52:40,653
Speaker 4: No? No, it's too hard to pronounce.

687
00:52:42,613 --> 00:52:48,373
Speaker 3: You got that right, So in wrapping this anything you'd.

688
00:52:48,173 --> 00:52:51,613
Speaker 4: Like to say, well, we were talking, well, just one

689
00:52:51,693 --> 00:52:56,373
Speaker 4: thing we were talking as an indication of how far

690
00:52:56,533 --> 00:53:02,053
Speaker 4: down the line we got in these anti democratic, anti

691
00:53:02,853 --> 00:53:08,813
Speaker 4: freedom sort of tendencies under the previous governments, and that

692
00:53:09,013 --> 00:53:14,053
Speaker 4: is David Seymour's referendum which he wants on the on

693
00:53:14,213 --> 00:53:17,333
Speaker 4: the Treaty principles. Well, we won't go into that, but

694
00:53:19,053 --> 00:53:25,573
Speaker 4: what he's asking for is that the public decide the

695
00:53:25,733 --> 00:53:30,133
Speaker 4: particular questions that that that he's raised. Whether they're right

696
00:53:30,253 --> 00:53:32,613
Speaker 4: or wris, it doesn't really matter. It's for the public

697
00:53:32,773 --> 00:53:38,653
Speaker 4: to decide. And I was appalled to read Chris Finolasen,

698
00:53:39,173 --> 00:53:43,933
Speaker 4: as a former Attorney General, expressing the view that these

699
00:53:43,973 --> 00:53:47,773
Speaker 4: things are far too difficult for the public to have

700
00:53:47,893 --> 00:53:52,493
Speaker 4: any saying and they probably come up with the wrong answers. Now,

701
00:53:52,573 --> 00:53:56,733
Speaker 4: that to me summarized very neatly a lot of what

702
00:53:56,773 --> 00:54:03,653
Speaker 4: we've been talking about in these attacks on the on

703
00:54:03,813 --> 00:54:11,013
Speaker 4: the freedom of expression and the democracy, and it just

704
00:54:11,093 --> 00:54:14,733
Speaker 4: illustrates how far down the track we we we came

705
00:54:15,853 --> 00:54:22,213
Speaker 4: before hopefully the stop signs went up, but I live

706
00:54:22,293 --> 00:54:22,933
Speaker 4: in hope.

707
00:54:24,493 --> 00:54:24,933
Speaker 3: Anymore.

708
00:54:26,053 --> 00:54:29,613
Speaker 2: No, that's we could we could talk for hours, Laton,

709
00:54:29,733 --> 00:54:31,253
Speaker 2: but well we.

710
00:54:31,173 --> 00:54:36,973
Speaker 3: Could talk for ours, but would you want to Tony?

711
00:54:37,093 --> 00:54:37,733
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.

712
00:54:37,733 --> 00:54:56,173
Speaker 2: All right, thanks Layton, good to talk. Bye bye.

713
00:54:58,173 --> 00:55:01,333
Speaker 3: Now I'm doing it a little differently this year. The

714
00:55:01,333 --> 00:55:04,693
Speaker 3: the at the end of the replay, I usually have

715
00:55:04,733 --> 00:55:07,293
Speaker 3: a few words to say, and every year I have

716
00:55:07,333 --> 00:55:09,733
Speaker 3: to struggle to think up the appropriate thing is to

717
00:55:10,293 --> 00:55:14,093
Speaker 3: put in this particular plot. So I've decided to give

718
00:55:14,093 --> 00:55:16,853
Speaker 3: myself a break and do one that covers all of them.

719
00:55:16,933 --> 00:55:19,533
Speaker 3: So if you've heard this before, you can turn it

720
00:55:19,573 --> 00:55:22,813
Speaker 3: off because you've heard it, because it's going to be

721
00:55:22,813 --> 00:55:26,173
Speaker 3: the same one for each of the seven replays. Now,

722
00:55:26,493 --> 00:55:29,133
Speaker 3: if this is the first one, then I trust that

723
00:55:29,173 --> 00:55:32,853
Speaker 3: you're having a wonderful holiday. If you're not on holiday yet,

724
00:55:32,853 --> 00:55:37,573
Speaker 3: your time will come. Rest assured. I have enjoyed doing

725
00:55:37,613 --> 00:55:41,293
Speaker 3: these because re listening to them myself, I get more

726
00:55:41,293 --> 00:55:43,773
Speaker 3: out of them, and I see things or I should say,

727
00:55:43,853 --> 00:55:46,693
Speaker 3: I hear things that I might have got slightly wrong

728
00:55:46,773 --> 00:55:48,733
Speaker 3: or I could have done better, So it's a learning

729
00:55:48,773 --> 00:55:53,693
Speaker 3: curve as well. Anyway, we will be back for the

730
00:55:53,733 --> 00:55:57,893
Speaker 3: next one a week from this particular release, unless, of

731
00:55:57,933 --> 00:56:00,333
Speaker 3: course it's the last one, which is on the twenty

732
00:56:00,413 --> 00:56:03,493
Speaker 3: ninth of January, and that'll be the end of this

733
00:56:04,013 --> 00:56:07,773
Speaker 3: replay series. Add On February five. We shall return with

734
00:56:07,973 --> 00:56:11,693
Speaker 3: fresh content in the meantime. At any stage, drop us

735
00:56:11,693 --> 00:56:13,453
Speaker 3: and drop us on notes if you've got comment that

736
00:56:13,493 --> 00:56:15,973
Speaker 3: you'd like to make later at newstalks ab dot co

737
00:56:16,053 --> 00:56:19,013
Speaker 3: dot Enzend and Caroline at newstalks ab dot co dot

738
00:56:19,373 --> 00:56:22,733
Speaker 3: nz and we shall talk soon.

739
00:56:30,613 --> 00:56:34,253
Speaker 1: Thank you for more from News Talks at b Listen

740
00:56:34,333 --> 00:56:37,293
Speaker 1: live on air or online, and keep our shows with

741
00:56:37,413 --> 00:56:40,493
Speaker 1: you wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio