1 00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:12,693 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from Newstalk zed B. Follow 2 00:00:12,773 --> 00:00:16,133 Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:16,653 --> 00:00:19,572 Speaker 2: The government says it's makeover of the Resource Management Act 4 00:00:19,773 --> 00:00:22,013 Speaker 2: is a once in a generation cheft. The overhall has 5 00:00:22,093 --> 00:00:24,973 Speaker 2: two new bills that slash some rules, reduces a need 6 00:00:25,012 --> 00:00:28,013 Speaker 2: for many consents, and speeds some up. Joining us now 7 00:00:28,213 --> 00:00:31,373 Speaker 2: on the phones is Simon Court, Act MP and Under 8 00:00:31,373 --> 00:00:35,092 Speaker 2: Secretary for RMA Reform Simon. Very good afternoon to you. 9 00:00:35,973 --> 00:00:37,053 Speaker 3: Good afternoon, Tyler. 10 00:00:37,653 --> 00:00:39,333 Speaker 4: It's Matt as well, Simon. How are you? 11 00:00:40,253 --> 00:00:41,612 Speaker 3: Oh Matt, how are you? 12 00:00:41,933 --> 00:00:45,333 Speaker 4: Very good? I didn't want to be forgotten. Hey, and 13 00:00:45,452 --> 00:00:47,572 Speaker 4: look beer with us because we're just looking through this 14 00:00:47,933 --> 00:00:51,373 Speaker 4: right now. But from what I can understand, you're cutting 15 00:00:51,412 --> 00:00:54,533 Speaker 4: consent and permit numbers by forty six percent. So what 16 00:00:54,613 --> 00:00:56,253 Speaker 4: are the key things people will now be able to 17 00:00:56,293 --> 00:00:59,693 Speaker 4: do on their property or in their businesses without needing consent. 18 00:01:01,413 --> 00:01:05,133 Speaker 3: Well, I've experienced this firsthand, Matt, as a civil engineer 19 00:01:05,173 --> 00:01:07,572 Speaker 3: for nearly twenty five years, I've had to get consents. 20 00:01:07,693 --> 00:01:10,373 Speaker 3: I've had to get private plan changes through. I had 21 00:01:10,373 --> 00:01:13,773 Speaker 3: to explain to planners over and over, you know how 22 00:01:13,813 --> 00:01:16,093 Speaker 3: you manage it? Works so that the celt doesn't end 23 00:01:16,173 --> 00:01:18,133 Speaker 3: up in the stream and so trucks don't end up 24 00:01:18,133 --> 00:01:20,533 Speaker 3: tracking mud out on the road. By the time you've 25 00:01:20,533 --> 00:01:22,812 Speaker 3: done this a dozen times, and then imagine that around 26 00:01:22,853 --> 00:01:25,733 Speaker 3: the country, key wes have done this thousands and thousands 27 00:01:25,773 --> 00:01:27,973 Speaker 3: of times over you. So why are we still explaining 28 00:01:28,013 --> 00:01:31,333 Speaker 3: the same thing to planners when we already know how 29 00:01:31,333 --> 00:01:33,932 Speaker 3: to manage these affects. Well, So what we're doing in 30 00:01:33,973 --> 00:01:37,413 Speaker 3: the system, as we're simplifying, we're going to introduce national 31 00:01:37,453 --> 00:01:40,373 Speaker 3: standards for common activity is going to have far fewer plans. 32 00:01:40,693 --> 00:01:43,133 Speaker 3: But your question around how do we make sure we've 33 00:01:43,173 --> 00:01:46,093 Speaker 3: got fewer consents? How do we know riccually asking the 34 00:01:46,133 --> 00:01:49,813 Speaker 3: planning system to do less? We've slimmed the scope right down. 35 00:01:50,453 --> 00:01:53,533 Speaker 3: The old roma was all around sustainable management, you know, 36 00:01:53,573 --> 00:01:56,213 Speaker 3: these kind of concepts that came out of the nineteen eighties, 37 00:01:56,653 --> 00:02:00,093 Speaker 3: the UN sustainable Development goals, It was all vibes back then. 38 00:02:00,493 --> 00:02:02,653 Speaker 3: We've just said simply what do we need to manage 39 00:02:02,773 --> 00:02:04,773 Speaker 3: to protect the environment and what do we need to 40 00:02:04,773 --> 00:02:07,453 Speaker 3: manage so as a private property owner, you can do 41 00:02:07,533 --> 00:02:09,972 Speaker 3: more with your land. So we're going to have far 42 00:02:10,053 --> 00:02:13,173 Speaker 3: fewer plans fewer rules, national standards that say, look, you 43 00:02:13,213 --> 00:02:14,693 Speaker 3: want to do some land development, you want to do 44 00:02:14,733 --> 00:02:17,653 Speaker 3: some clearing. As long as you follow these standards, you 45 00:02:17,653 --> 00:02:19,852 Speaker 3: won't have to ask for consent. And that's one of 46 00:02:19,893 --> 00:02:22,132 Speaker 3: the ways we're going to reduce a number of consents 47 00:02:22,213 --> 00:02:26,173 Speaker 3: demanded from say forty plus thousand a year down to 48 00:02:26,773 --> 00:02:28,972 Speaker 3: around twenty thousand a year in the new system. 49 00:02:29,373 --> 00:02:31,653 Speaker 4: So practically, just on a personal level, I putting in 50 00:02:31,653 --> 00:02:34,452 Speaker 4: a non suite bathroom, the concents are quite punishing. Will 51 00:02:34,453 --> 00:02:35,093 Speaker 4: this help me with that? 52 00:02:36,693 --> 00:02:39,093 Speaker 3: Well, if you've got a heritage house right now, in fact, 53 00:02:39,133 --> 00:02:41,253 Speaker 3: the councilor might have rules about what you're allowed to 54 00:02:41,252 --> 00:02:44,693 Speaker 3: do with the inside of your house. And so in 55 00:02:44,693 --> 00:02:46,933 Speaker 3: the new system, we're going to say, look, the inside 56 00:02:46,933 --> 00:02:50,213 Speaker 3: of your property is no longer something that councils and 57 00:02:50,252 --> 00:02:52,813 Speaker 3: the resource management system is going to be looking at. 58 00:02:53,252 --> 00:02:56,213 Speaker 3: If the effects are only on you, then there's no 59 00:02:56,252 --> 00:02:59,253 Speaker 3: need for rules around that and consents required. You know, 60 00:02:59,373 --> 00:03:01,653 Speaker 3: for things about which way your front door faces, the 61 00:03:01,693 --> 00:03:04,933 Speaker 3: color of your front door, the internal layout of your home. 62 00:03:05,453 --> 00:03:08,333 Speaker 3: All of those things are currently able to be litigated 63 00:03:08,453 --> 00:03:10,813 Speaker 3: is through the RMA. In the new system, they. 64 00:03:10,733 --> 00:03:13,093 Speaker 2: Won't be right could be good news for you, Matt, 65 00:03:13,373 --> 00:03:17,853 Speaker 2: So just explain to us the idea of this regulatory 66 00:03:17,972 --> 00:03:22,013 Speaker 2: relief provision. How does that going to work? Is that effectively, 67 00:03:22,293 --> 00:03:26,893 Speaker 2: if a person's property is negatively affected by council planning decisions, 68 00:03:26,933 --> 00:03:29,093 Speaker 2: they may be able to claim relief from that council. 69 00:03:30,213 --> 00:03:32,973 Speaker 3: That's right, and this as an act MP in a 70 00:03:33,093 --> 00:03:36,213 Speaker 3: champion of property rights, I'm so proud of the regulatory 71 00:03:36,293 --> 00:03:39,893 Speaker 3: relief measures in this legislation. We've heard from farmers and 72 00:03:40,013 --> 00:03:43,813 Speaker 3: property owners around the country that council officers pick up 73 00:03:43,813 --> 00:03:47,173 Speaker 3: the felter and they start coloring in maps with sensitive 74 00:03:47,213 --> 00:03:52,213 Speaker 3: natural areas and heritage overlays and cultural overlays, and they 75 00:03:52,213 --> 00:03:57,053 Speaker 3: don't really face the costs of their decisions. Because if 76 00:03:57,053 --> 00:03:58,893 Speaker 3: you're a private property owner, and I spoke to a 77 00:03:58,933 --> 00:04:01,173 Speaker 3: woman up in the Mochi near tai Happy a few 78 00:04:01,213 --> 00:04:05,413 Speaker 3: months ago, seventy percent of farm had been painted over 79 00:04:05,573 --> 00:04:08,533 Speaker 3: with sensitive natural areas or outstanding landscapes. Look, it is 80 00:04:08,533 --> 00:04:10,933 Speaker 3: a beautiful property, but there's only half a dozen people 81 00:04:11,053 --> 00:04:14,093 Speaker 3: ever see it in a given year, and a few 82 00:04:14,133 --> 00:04:17,133 Speaker 3: farmers who drive past every day. But what it meant 83 00:04:17,253 --> 00:04:20,413 Speaker 3: was a huge loss in value, the ability to develop 84 00:04:20,453 --> 00:04:23,253 Speaker 3: that property. Even to put in a fence or cut 85 00:04:23,373 --> 00:04:26,733 Speaker 3: a track would have needed a resource consent. So in 86 00:04:26,773 --> 00:04:29,373 Speaker 3: the new system, if councils want to do that, firstly, 87 00:04:29,413 --> 00:04:31,133 Speaker 3: there's going to be a much higher thresholder. It's going 88 00:04:31,213 --> 00:04:33,493 Speaker 3: to have to be truly significant or outstanding, not just 89 00:04:33,613 --> 00:04:36,813 Speaker 3: reckons from a council officer with a clipboard. And if 90 00:04:36,813 --> 00:04:39,093 Speaker 3: they do insist that they want to apply these controls 91 00:04:39,093 --> 00:04:41,533 Speaker 3: to someone's property, they're going to have to offer them 92 00:04:41,533 --> 00:04:44,813 Speaker 3: either a rates relief, a cash grant, or it could 93 00:04:44,813 --> 00:04:48,613 Speaker 3: be something simpler that doesn't actually cost a council any money, 94 00:04:49,293 --> 00:04:52,773 Speaker 3: such as biodiversity credits or the ability to develop another 95 00:04:52,853 --> 00:04:55,013 Speaker 3: part of that property in a much more intensive way. 96 00:04:55,213 --> 00:04:56,453 Speaker 3: So we don't want to force a whole lot of 97 00:04:56,493 --> 00:04:58,813 Speaker 3: cost on councils, but we want to force the cost 98 00:04:58,853 --> 00:05:02,853 Speaker 3: of making these decisions that harm private property owners. We 99 00:05:02,893 --> 00:05:04,653 Speaker 3: want to force them to face those decisions. 100 00:05:05,093 --> 00:05:07,253 Speaker 4: You begin at a pushback on this, though, what you 101 00:05:07,573 --> 00:05:10,853 Speaker 4: simon from environmental groups and heritage. 102 00:05:10,493 --> 00:05:15,853 Speaker 3: Groups, Well, that's not what we've heard, mat because what 103 00:05:15,893 --> 00:05:18,973 Speaker 3: they do like is that a separate piece of legislation 104 00:05:19,093 --> 00:05:23,013 Speaker 3: and Natural Environment Bill we're introducing next week will say look, 105 00:05:23,413 --> 00:05:26,773 Speaker 3: we need to set environmental limits and around the country, 106 00:05:27,133 --> 00:05:31,133 Speaker 3: whether it's fresh water or a biodiversity, those people doing 107 00:05:31,173 --> 00:05:34,173 Speaker 3: development need to meet those limits. We've got a transparent 108 00:05:34,213 --> 00:05:35,693 Speaker 3: way of setting the limits. We're not going to have 109 00:05:35,773 --> 00:05:38,893 Speaker 3: every council to a choose your own adventure about water quality. 110 00:05:39,613 --> 00:05:41,453 Speaker 3: A lot of the stuff is going to be standardized. 111 00:05:41,453 --> 00:05:43,053 Speaker 3: We want it to be simple, and we want it 112 00:05:43,093 --> 00:05:46,253 Speaker 3: to be introduced and implemented within the next couple of years. 113 00:05:46,693 --> 00:05:50,853 Speaker 3: So I think from an environmental NGO point of view, 114 00:05:51,253 --> 00:05:54,133 Speaker 3: we're actually hearing that they're generally supportive of the direction 115 00:05:54,213 --> 00:05:55,253 Speaker 3: of this reform, which. 116 00:05:55,093 --> 00:05:57,413 Speaker 2: Is happening something that will be music to a lot 117 00:05:57,413 --> 00:06:01,373 Speaker 2: of people's ears. I think simon is the public participation rights. 118 00:06:01,373 --> 00:06:04,973 Speaker 2: They're being narrowed to affected parties. So effectively, if you 119 00:06:05,013 --> 00:06:06,493 Speaker 2: want to put up a new fence or put up 120 00:06:06,533 --> 00:06:08,773 Speaker 2: a new tree, the only people who can jump on 121 00:06:08,853 --> 00:06:11,573 Speaker 2: board on the submission process are your next door neighbors. 122 00:06:11,613 --> 00:06:14,013 Speaker 2: No longer people up and down the country saying we're 123 00:06:14,013 --> 00:06:16,413 Speaker 2: worried about the flight path of birds. It's just going 124 00:06:16,493 --> 00:06:18,373 Speaker 2: to be the next door neighbors who can make submissions. 125 00:06:19,613 --> 00:06:21,893 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. When it comes to the Planning bill 126 00:06:22,333 --> 00:06:25,493 Speaker 3: that's absolutely clear that only those who are directly affected, 127 00:06:25,533 --> 00:06:29,213 Speaker 3: like neighbors, and who are affected in a way that 128 00:06:29,333 --> 00:06:33,013 Speaker 3: is more than minor will get to be notified. And 129 00:06:33,813 --> 00:06:37,533 Speaker 3: that's quite different from the current system, where obviously sometimes 130 00:06:37,573 --> 00:06:40,413 Speaker 3: council planners will say, oh, well, we're not sure who's affected, 131 00:06:40,453 --> 00:06:42,853 Speaker 3: we're going to publicly notify it. I mean, that's a 132 00:06:42,893 --> 00:06:45,013 Speaker 3: horrific thing to hear if you're trying to build a 133 00:06:45,053 --> 00:06:47,453 Speaker 3: home or do a development, because it basically means that 134 00:06:47,893 --> 00:06:50,893 Speaker 3: instead of negotiating with a few neighbors about effects, all 135 00:06:50,933 --> 00:06:53,453 Speaker 3: of a sudden, every Tom, Dick and Harry can pile in. 136 00:06:53,973 --> 00:06:56,453 Speaker 3: And you know, we've seen that with the Wanaka McDonald's. 137 00:06:56,453 --> 00:06:58,933 Speaker 3: Who've seen that with the t row Starbucks. You know, 138 00:06:59,053 --> 00:07:02,053 Speaker 3: these are people who just want to run a franchise. 139 00:07:02,133 --> 00:07:05,453 Speaker 3: You know, kiwis like you and I trying to get ahead, 140 00:07:05,453 --> 00:07:08,053 Speaker 3: who want to employ people. And yet you've got all 141 00:07:08,093 --> 00:07:12,293 Speaker 3: kinds of groups from Health New Zealand or Save New 142 00:07:12,333 --> 00:07:18,133 Speaker 3: Zealand from overpriced iced coffees piling in and saying that 143 00:07:18,133 --> 00:07:20,213 Speaker 3: you shouldn't be allowed to do it. Burn a new system, 144 00:07:20,253 --> 00:07:23,853 Speaker 3: we're raising the threshold in terms of what effects are 145 00:07:23,893 --> 00:07:29,173 Speaker 3: considered by the system and also really narrowing who can object. 146 00:07:30,213 --> 00:07:33,053 Speaker 2: And roughly how much you're expected to save with the 147 00:07:33,053 --> 00:07:36,173 Speaker 2: government to save through this process. Simon, I've just looked 148 00:07:36,173 --> 00:07:38,013 Speaker 2: at some numbers here, but it's roughly about three point 149 00:07:38,013 --> 00:07:38,853 Speaker 2: one billion dollars a. 150 00:07:38,893 --> 00:07:46,013 Speaker 3: Year potentially aiming to all the projections we've seen that 151 00:07:46,053 --> 00:07:49,253 Speaker 3: we can increase GDP by over half of percent a 152 00:07:49,333 --> 00:07:52,693 Speaker 3: year between now and twenty fifty, which is a huge 153 00:07:52,733 --> 00:07:54,853 Speaker 3: return to New Zealand and the billions of dollars a 154 00:07:54,933 --> 00:07:59,333 Speaker 3: year of extra economic activity. But we're also have identified 155 00:07:59,373 --> 00:08:03,333 Speaker 3: over thirteen billion dollars in savings to not just government 156 00:08:03,653 --> 00:08:05,533 Speaker 3: but also the key we who have to apply for 157 00:08:05,533 --> 00:08:08,053 Speaker 3: all of these consents. So that's going to have a 158 00:08:08,413 --> 00:08:12,213 Speaker 3: cerial impact on bottom line, but it's also going to 159 00:08:12,293 --> 00:08:15,093 Speaker 3: just free people up to build the things that Kiwis want. 160 00:08:15,613 --> 00:08:18,573 Speaker 3: We want warm, dry homes and places that are close 161 00:08:18,613 --> 00:08:22,373 Speaker 3: to where we live, close to where we play and work. 162 00:08:22,733 --> 00:08:24,973 Speaker 3: You know. We want decent roads that can be built 163 00:08:25,053 --> 00:08:28,173 Speaker 3: in a decent time frame and not held up for 164 00:08:28,333 --> 00:08:31,653 Speaker 3: years and years and years with kind of random or 165 00:08:31,653 --> 00:08:34,852 Speaker 3: reltigating environmental issues that can be quite simply dealt with. 166 00:08:35,333 --> 00:08:39,413 Speaker 3: So look, great savings, great economic opportunities. And as a 167 00:08:39,413 --> 00:08:42,093 Speaker 3: civil engineer who's battled the resource management system for over 168 00:08:42,173 --> 00:08:44,373 Speaker 3: twenty five nearly twenty five years before I was elected 169 00:08:44,413 --> 00:08:47,213 Speaker 3: to Parliament in twenty twenty, I'm really proud of what 170 00:08:47,213 --> 00:08:48,733 Speaker 3: we've achieved. Here today we're. 171 00:08:48,612 --> 00:08:52,213 Speaker 4: Talking to Simon Court, ACTMP and Under Secretary for RMA Reform. 172 00:08:53,413 --> 00:08:57,612 Speaker 4: Here's a text for you. My worry is that cowboys 173 00:08:57,693 --> 00:08:58,573 Speaker 4: will rule supreme. 174 00:08:59,173 --> 00:09:03,253 Speaker 3: What do you say to that, Well, look, I'd love 175 00:09:03,413 --> 00:09:06,733 Speaker 3: for cowboys to be able to roam the prairie of 176 00:09:06,813 --> 00:09:10,172 Speaker 3: New Zealand without having to worry about council officers with 177 00:09:10,293 --> 00:09:12,892 Speaker 3: clipboards coming and telling them you can't ride there. It's 178 00:09:12,892 --> 00:09:16,333 Speaker 3: a sensitive natural area. We've got to find this balance right. 179 00:09:16,852 --> 00:09:19,733 Speaker 3: New Zealanders love the environment that we live and that's 180 00:09:19,732 --> 00:09:22,813 Speaker 3: why people choose to move to places that are like 181 00:09:22,933 --> 00:09:25,293 Speaker 3: places like Titangi, where I used to live in the 182 00:09:25,293 --> 00:09:28,492 Speaker 3: bush or near the bush. We want to protect those things. 183 00:09:28,533 --> 00:09:31,413 Speaker 3: We've already got ways to protect them with covenants under 184 00:09:31,573 --> 00:09:35,893 Speaker 3: say the q E two covenants for sensitive natural environments. 185 00:09:35,892 --> 00:09:39,892 Speaker 3: People do that voluntarily, so there's plenty of protection for 186 00:09:40,012 --> 00:09:42,973 Speaker 3: the natural environment. In the Natural Environment Bill and I 187 00:09:43,053 --> 00:09:46,372 Speaker 3: would encourage your listeners those who want to make a 188 00:09:46,413 --> 00:09:50,213 Speaker 3: submission to do that through the parliamentary process. That'll be 189 00:09:50,252 --> 00:09:53,372 Speaker 3: through Environment Committee, and I understand submissions will open towards 190 00:09:53,372 --> 00:09:55,093 Speaker 3: the end of next week once we've read those bills 191 00:09:55,093 --> 00:09:56,252 Speaker 3: in the House for the first time. 192 00:09:56,693 --> 00:09:59,933 Speaker 4: So best case scenario for you, when will this all happen. 193 00:10:01,252 --> 00:10:03,453 Speaker 3: We're going to get these two pieces of legislation, a 194 00:10:03,492 --> 00:10:06,213 Speaker 3: new Planning Bill a new Natural Environment Bill passed by 195 00:10:06,252 --> 00:10:09,333 Speaker 3: the middle of next year. Parallel, we're going to be 196 00:10:09,333 --> 00:10:13,373 Speaker 3: delivering what's called the National Direction Package and National Standards 197 00:10:14,252 --> 00:10:18,333 Speaker 3: for planning because we can't have the current over one 198 00:10:18,852 --> 00:10:22,213 Speaker 3: one hundred different zones across sixty seven councils. In the 199 00:10:22,213 --> 00:10:25,693 Speaker 3: new system, we're going to standardize which zones councils can 200 00:10:25,732 --> 00:10:28,372 Speaker 3: pick from. They're not going to be doing choose your 201 00:10:28,372 --> 00:10:31,213 Speaker 3: own adventure when it comes to planning their cities. So 202 00:10:31,372 --> 00:10:34,213 Speaker 3: all of these things, National Direction, national standards have to 203 00:10:34,213 --> 00:10:37,493 Speaker 3: flow on very quickly. Next year. Councils will be doing 204 00:10:37,533 --> 00:10:40,012 Speaker 3: their new plans under the new system in twenty twenty seven. 205 00:10:40,252 --> 00:10:41,933 Speaker 3: We aim to have the whole thing wrapped up within 206 00:10:41,973 --> 00:10:45,013 Speaker 3: three years. By twenty twenty nine, fully implemented, so we 207 00:10:45,093 --> 00:10:48,933 Speaker 3: are going gangbusters. It's pedal to the metal, quite a 208 00:10:49,053 --> 00:10:52,612 Speaker 3: different approach to the previous governments ten years to implement stuff, 209 00:10:52,653 --> 00:10:55,132 Speaker 3: and it was going to be more complicated, So I'm 210 00:10:55,173 --> 00:10:59,612 Speaker 3: confident we can get there. Chris Boship and I are 211 00:10:59,813 --> 00:11:02,573 Speaker 3: are going to continue to keep an eye on the 212 00:11:02,612 --> 00:11:04,533 Speaker 3: stuff and make sure that it's delivered in the way 213 00:11:04,533 --> 00:11:05,252 Speaker 3: we anticipate. 214 00:11:05,852 --> 00:11:09,012 Speaker 2: There are some significant changes and Simon, you go big afternoon, 215 00:11:09,012 --> 00:11:10,733 Speaker 2: A hit of you, no doubt, but really appreciate you 216 00:11:10,773 --> 00:11:11,773 Speaker 2: coming on and discussing. 217 00:11:12,573 --> 00:11:13,653 Speaker 3: Thanks Tyler, Thanks Matt. 218 00:11:13,813 --> 00:11:17,612 Speaker 2: That is Simon Courts, under Secretary for the RMA reform 219 00:11:18,093 --> 00:11:20,772 Speaker 2: and also act MP. There'll be plenty more to come 220 00:11:20,813 --> 00:11:22,892 Speaker 2: on that as the afternoon progresses. 221 00:11:23,693 --> 00:11:26,333 Speaker 1: For more from News Talk set B listen live on 222 00:11:26,413 --> 00:11:29,412 Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever 223 00:11:29,453 --> 00:11:32,013 Speaker 1: you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.