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Speaker 1: Gas. The government's being urged to invest in reducing household

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Speaker 1: gas usage, basically forcing us or getting us to use

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Speaker 1: less of it at home in order to leave what

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Speaker 1: natural gas is left for the industrial users. The ideas

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Speaker 1: come from the Green Building Council. They think it's time

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Speaker 1: that households wean themselves off using gas for heating their

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Speaker 1: homes and their whole order and so on. In that way,

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Speaker 1: industrial exporters can have a little bit more to play with.

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Speaker 1: The Chief Executive of Energy Resources ults here or John

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Speaker 1: Carnegie's with us on this. Hey, John, is this the solution?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Look, you know, we applaud the efforts and certainly

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Speaker 2: the intent. You know, we all want energy efficient and

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Speaker 2: low carbon houses, you know, so we love that. But

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Speaker 2: actually what we do need to do is look for

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Speaker 2: solutions to actually protect all Kiwi's energy security and our

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Speaker 2: economic prosperity, not more subset.

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Speaker 1: Even if this was a solution, how would you do it, Like,

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Speaker 1: how would you actually encourage all of these households, hundreds

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Speaker 1: of thousands, potentially millions around the country to stop using gas?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, let's a great question. I mean, I think

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Speaker 2: that the intent behind the policy is government subsidy and

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Speaker 2: so I guess from our perspective, you know, we're just

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Speaker 2: not sure it's the least cost solution. And actually, I

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Speaker 2: mean you you led into the in your intro. You know,

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Speaker 2: actually generally cost solution is about choices and not taking

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Speaker 2: options away. Actually, we're all about giving New Zealand does

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Speaker 2: all the options we can rather than taking them away.

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Speaker 2: And actually it won't surprise you that we think that

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Speaker 2: natural gas is pretty pretty important defeat in the mix

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Speaker 2: for everybody.

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Speaker 1: John, what is the solution though, Because if there is

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Speaker 1: only so much gas to go around, we are as

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Speaker 1: households being prioritized to be the method X deal as

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Speaker 1: an example of that, right, and that's to the detriment

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Speaker 1: to the country because now we haven't got those export

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Speaker 1: earnings coming in from methin X. So how do we

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Speaker 1: how do we fix this?

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Speaker 2: Well, the answer is more gas or gas exploration. Heather.

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Speaker 2: You know again, you know we need to we need

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Speaker 2: to keep the households, household connections into perspective, they are

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Speaker 2: really important, but we need gas for the industrials. Is

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Speaker 2: that cuts to the prosperity of all New Zealanders. So

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Speaker 2: more gas is going to be in everyone's best interest,

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Speaker 2: So you know, it's also worth while keeping a perspective

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Speaker 2: where we're talking about the gas used by households that

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Speaker 2: they use in terms of energy that it's called six

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Speaker 2: Petta duals of energy, and really that's just almost the

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Speaker 2: equivalent of what method X has just given up. So

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Speaker 2: even if you gave it back into the system, really

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Speaker 2: it doesn't make any net difference to our energy shortage.

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Speaker 2: We still have a shortage. We still have the gas shortage.

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Speaker 2: We have an electricity types electricity system. We need more gas.

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Speaker 1: John, when was the last time somebody actually found more gas?

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Speaker 2: Well, the last discovery was in twenty twenty. Actually, yes, indeed,

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Speaker 2: you know there are a number of myths that kind

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Speaker 2: of float around, float around the system. So twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: was the tut y discovery. That was a discovery made

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Speaker 2: by OMV. They yet to appraise it, so we're not

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Speaker 2: quite So you discover it and then you kind of

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Speaker 2: figure out what's there and what is there and how

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Speaker 2: much so we determine the balance between oil and gas.

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Speaker 1: So we don't know how much gas is there.

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Speaker 2: No, we don't. But you know, there was another in

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Speaker 2: field discovery by OMV Maui East, so you know, there

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Speaker 2: have been discoveries. I think the issue it seems to

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Speaker 2: be doing the rounds that people don't seem to take

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Speaker 2: into account is that the ban has meant that the

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Speaker 2: only exploration that's able to be undertaken is within the

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Speaker 2: existing permits. And there are certainly prospects before the ban

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Speaker 2: that people were incredibly bullshit.

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Speaker 1: Tell me this though, prospect it tell me if they've

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Speaker 1: got if they found something at two to why in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty, why didn't they go and have a look

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Speaker 1: how much there is and start digging for it, drilling

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Speaker 1: for it.

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Speaker 2: Well, they had a work program already that has played

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Speaker 2: out since then. But also the band has created a

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Speaker 2: massive sovereign risk. So you know what it's done with

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Speaker 2: you Well, no, no, I wouldn't say that, but it's

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Speaker 2: has certainly made new investment news ending a lot harder

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Speaker 2: to justify.

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Speaker 1: John, Thanks for that. Really appreciate that, John Carnegie, Chief

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Speaker 1: Executive Energy Resources out here, or it's the next time

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Speaker 1: you hear the labor party Megan Woods in particular, real

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Speaker 1: prime offender here saying nobody's found any goal any oil

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Speaker 1: gas for years. You can say, well, actually it's only

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Speaker 1: four years ago. But because of you lot, they don't

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Speaker 1: want to go and have another look at it. For

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