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Speaker 1: Andrew Dickens.

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Speaker 2: The new Public Services Minister, Judith Collins, has told public

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Speaker 2: sector bosses to stop wasting money and leave their acronyms

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Speaker 2: at the door. She made a speech to all the

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Speaker 2: public service leaders yesterday. She said, I want you to

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Speaker 2: cut down on the gob of degook. I want you

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Speaker 2: to treat taxpayers money like your own. I want you

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Speaker 2: to embrace the Prime Minister's culture of Yes. So flur

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Speaker 2: fit Zimon's as Public Service Association Act National Try that again.

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Speaker 2: It's a run up because it's a long title. Flur

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Speaker 2: Public Services Association Acting National Secretary and joins me, Now,

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Speaker 2: so did you get a telling off?

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Speaker 1: No? I don't think so. I think the Minister was

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Speaker 1: had elements of kind of performative nature to what she

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Speaker 1: was saying. There's a lot to agree with in her

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Speaker 1: speech though she talked about using plain English. She talked

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Speaker 1: about the importance of free and frank advice and the

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Speaker 1: value of public service. It's a bit rich to hear

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Speaker 1: some of that from a government though that has cut

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Speaker 1: so many jobs, and we know that New Zealander is

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Speaker 1: already feeling the impacts of that.

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Speaker 2: They've cut jobs because they believe that government spending is high.

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Speaker 2: They believe government spending is high because they believe government

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Speaker 2: money is being wasted, and they believe the people dolling

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Speaker 2: out the government money in many cases are in fact

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Speaker 2: public servants.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, and we fundamentally disagree with that. And actually,

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Speaker 1: what we need to see is more investment in our

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Speaker 1: public service. We're dealing with complicated, difficult issues like climate change,

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Speaker 1: and we're a coastal nation. We are going to need

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Speaker 1: the best and brightest working on these difficult issues to

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Speaker 1: make sure that New Zealand can protect itself and deliver

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Speaker 1: its emission reduction targets. And it's just one example. There

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Speaker 1: are many such complicated issues that we need public servants

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Speaker 1: working on every day and we need to keep the

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Speaker 1: best and brightest here in New Zealand.

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Speaker 2: Yes, but the Minister also says that New Zealand did

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Speaker 2: not have the economic growth to support the thing twenty

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Speaker 2: four percent increase in the size of the public service

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Speaker 2: that happened between twenty seventeen and twenty twenty three, And

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Speaker 2: you do have to be proportionate, don't you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't really agree with her figures there. Actually,

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Speaker 1: if you look at the size of New Zealand's public

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Speaker 1: service compared with Australia or the United Kingdom is a

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Speaker 1: proportion of the population, it's broadly similar. But also it's

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Speaker 1: worth remembering that during that period we did have an

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Speaker 1: increased number of public servants working on COVID, and nobody

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Speaker 1: would disagree that the important work they did to save

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Speaker 1: lives shouldn't be invested in. So look, there has been

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Speaker 1: some very damaging cuts, and the cuts have been damaging

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Speaker 1: for those individuals and their families, but also for the

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Speaker 1: capacity of our public service to deliver the policy needs

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Speaker 1: and policy implementation for the government of the day.

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Speaker 2: Do you feel like the previous government has been carrying

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Speaker 2: the can for all of this because perhaps they weren't

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Speaker 2: well served by the public service.

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Speaker 1: I think we've got a very professional public service. In fact,

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Speaker 1: New Zealand's public service is known as one of the

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Speaker 1: least corrupt all over the world. We don't have a

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Speaker 1: problem with corruption, we have good transparency. We have strong

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Speaker 1: public servants giving free and frank advice to governments of

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Speaker 1: the day in a politically neutral way, no matter who's

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Speaker 1: in government.

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Speaker 2: Well, very good, I thank you for your time today, flirforit.

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Speaker 2: Simons who is the Public Service Association Acting National Secretary.

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Speaker 2: I thank you for your time.

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