WEBVTT - The new challenges hitting NZ's education sector - from AI in exams to rising mental health concerns

0:00:04.960 --> 0:00:05.320
<v Speaker 1>Hilda.

0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:08.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a

0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:16.799
<v Speaker 2>daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Society is

0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:19.560
<v Speaker 2>always under pressure to keep up. Given the world around

0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:23.239
<v Speaker 2>us is in a constant state of change. Our education

0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:28.120
<v Speaker 2>sector is no different. Education officials are attempting to crack

0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:32.520
<v Speaker 2>down on the use of artificial intelligence in NCA exams

0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:36.680
<v Speaker 2>after a rise in substantiated breaches last year. It's an

0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:39.879
<v Speaker 2>extra challenge for schools on top of other issues that

0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:44.600
<v Speaker 2>have emerged since COVID, like a decline in student's mental health. Today,

0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:47.400
<v Speaker 2>on the Front Page News Talks That'd be Education reporter

0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:51.160
<v Speaker 2>Jamie Cunningham joins us to discuss the multitude of problems

0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:58.080
<v Speaker 2>facing our education sector. Jamie, tell me a little bit

0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:01.760
<v Speaker 2>about concerns around AI So I understand there were a

0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:04.920
<v Speaker 2>number of NCA exam breaches last year.

0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:06.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's right.

0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:09.959
<v Speaker 4>So education officials are cracking down really hard on the

0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:14.200
<v Speaker 4>aius as more students are using things like chat, GPT

0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:18.760
<v Speaker 4>and other tools and it's actually flowed on to exams.

0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:21.160
<v Speaker 3>So last year MZQA.

0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:26.720
<v Speaker 4>Investigated eight hundred and seventy six reported breaches of external assessments.

0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:31.680
<v Speaker 4>Seven hundred and thirty eight were substantiated and the total

0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:35.000
<v Speaker 4>figure is a two hundred and fifty percent increase on

0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:38.680
<v Speaker 4>the twenty nine total which was three hundred and forty five.

0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:42.120
<v Speaker 4>And I guess part of that reason is a lot

0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:42.959
<v Speaker 4>of aius.

0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:45.160
<v Speaker 3>So only fifty nine last.

0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:50.960
<v Speaker 4>Year were reported breaches of involving AI use, but authenticity

0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:54.000
<v Speaker 4>was the most common type of breach with two hundred

0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:59.000
<v Speaker 4>and nine reported cases. But now principles believe that these

0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:02.400
<v Speaker 4>type of cases also involve AI use, But it's just

0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:06.120
<v Speaker 4>I guess that balance between them that it's really hard

0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:09.800
<v Speaker 4>for teachers and marketers to know when the technology is

0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:15.480
<v Speaker 4>being used in exams, so it's possibly been used in

0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:20.240
<v Speaker 4>these external assessments which also involve literacy and numerousy standards now,

0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:23.200
<v Speaker 4>so they can also be or not always in an

0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:26.320
<v Speaker 4>exam setting, so it could be easier in these standards

0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:28.040
<v Speaker 4>to use AI and.

0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:29.080
<v Speaker 3>Things like chat GPT.

0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:32.200
<v Speaker 2>Right, what do these AI breaches look like? So what

0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:34.480
<v Speaker 2>are these kids actually using it for?

0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:40.560
<v Speaker 4>Well, it's different for each student, and normally it's something

0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:45.080
<v Speaker 4>like putting a question into a software like chat, GPT

0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:51.079
<v Speaker 4>or another technology platform and asking it to write an

0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:55.320
<v Speaker 4>essay for them or googling and helping.

0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:56.320
<v Speaker 3>Someone else's work.

0:02:56.440 --> 0:03:00.200
<v Speaker 4>So that's where I guess that authenticity can get brought

0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:02.560
<v Speaker 4>out in the AI use because a lot of that

0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:06.839
<v Speaker 4>is just copying house's work, and so that obviously can

0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:11.600
<v Speaker 4>be AI when a temology has come up with this

0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:16.119
<v Speaker 4>essay or answered all these questions in an exam for them.

0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:20.840
<v Speaker 4>So it's hard to know. And that's what ENZQA are

0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:23.520
<v Speaker 4>also trying to like figure out at the moment is

0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:28.919
<v Speaker 4>how to provide guidance on how AI can benefit education

0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:33.720
<v Speaker 4>and teachers, and how to teach these standards using the tools,

0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:36.120
<v Speaker 4>but also identifying.

0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:41.920
<v Speaker 3>When it's being used and at the wrong times. I guess, I.

0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:46.080
<v Speaker 5>Guess the biggest problem they have sometimes is understanding where

0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:50.560
<v Speaker 5>their work begins and ends and where AI's work begins

0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:53.600
<v Speaker 5>and ends. You know, schools have sort of left it

0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:56.720
<v Speaker 5>up to teachers to decide what's okay to use AI,

0:03:56.880 --> 0:03:59.200
<v Speaker 5>when it's not okay to use use AI, and how

0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:04.480
<v Speaker 5>to use AI, and unfortunately, a lot of students sort

0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:07.840
<v Speaker 5>of see those as guidelines, not really hard rules in

0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:11.280
<v Speaker 5>terms of the honor code. So it's very easy for

0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:13.920
<v Speaker 5>students to see all of their classmates using AI and

0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:16.200
<v Speaker 5>think this is this is okay, this is a tool

0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:17.640
<v Speaker 5>that I'm going to have access to the rest of

0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:19.919
<v Speaker 5>my life. I might as well take advantage of it now.

0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:25.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, when we talk about authenticity, is that when a

0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:27.640
<v Speaker 2>kid in the class, you know, wouldn't have a clue

0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:30.040
<v Speaker 2>about how to write something about I don't know, I'm

0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:32.400
<v Speaker 2>talking from something that I did at school, but writing

0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:35.320
<v Speaker 2>an essay about the Scarlet Letter in class, for example,

0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:36.920
<v Speaker 2>and they're not able to do it, but then they

0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:39.920
<v Speaker 2>miraculously go home and come back tomorrow morning with like

0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:42.680
<v Speaker 2>an amazing essay about the Scarlet Letter and all of

0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:45.160
<v Speaker 2>its themes and pros and things like that. So is

0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:48.440
<v Speaker 2>that where teachers can really question it and be like,

0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:49.279
<v Speaker 2>hang on a minute.

0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:52.760
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, that's one example, and I guess one side of things.

0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:57.200
<v Speaker 4>But I've talked to the Secondary Principles Association who they

0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:02.440
<v Speaker 4>also say that it's more challenged to identify those cases

0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:05.920
<v Speaker 4>when it's a talented student and that's someone who's produced

0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:08.880
<v Speaker 4>some really good work throughout the year and then so

0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:12.159
<v Speaker 4>it's not as questioned as much when it's used in

0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:16.640
<v Speaker 4>an exam. So obviously it's easier to identify when a

0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:20.120
<v Speaker 4>student has miraculously produced some piece of work that's so

0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:23.800
<v Speaker 4>different from the rest of their work throughout the year.

0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:27.880
<v Speaker 4>But it is I guess hard to know when the

0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:31.640
<v Speaker 4>AI is being used and students that I don't know

0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:35.200
<v Speaker 4>why they're using it, but they just use it in

0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:38.360
<v Speaker 4>an exam when possibly they don't need to, but they're

0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:41.640
<v Speaker 4>relying on another tool to help them get a better grade.

0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:46.479
<v Speaker 6>And do the benefits of introducing digital assessments outweigh the negatives.

0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:48.320
<v Speaker 2>What I'm thinking here is why can't we just go

0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:51.559
<v Speaker 2>back to pensil and paper exams in person with someone

0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:54.080
<v Speaker 2>watching over your shoulder making sure you're not passing notes.

0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:56.920
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, And I guess it's a question that the whole

0:05:56.960 --> 0:05:59.080
<v Speaker 4>sector is asking themselves.

0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:02.520
<v Speaker 3>But it's also something that ENDSQA are looking into.

0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:07.119
<v Speaker 4>And I guess how AI can be used to help

0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:10.800
<v Speaker 4>guide students and be used as a tool before they

0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:14.920
<v Speaker 4>get to the examination process. So they're more looking at

0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:17.720
<v Speaker 4>how they can use the technology better, so it's not

0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:21.440
<v Speaker 4>relied on cheating, because it can be used as a

0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:25.159
<v Speaker 4>really useful tool that doesn't always result in cheating, but

0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:28.479
<v Speaker 4>it can help them learn and in that learning process,

0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:32.360
<v Speaker 4>so it doesn't seem like they're looking at turning away

0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:37.159
<v Speaker 4>from using the technology. But the benefits are not not

0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:39.039
<v Speaker 4>all there at the moment, as you can see in

0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:42.920
<v Speaker 4>these stats with the such a big increase on just

0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:44.680
<v Speaker 4>a few years before COVID.

0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:47.120
<v Speaker 3>So it's something they're.

0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:49.960
<v Speaker 4>Looking at, but definitely pen and paper not on their

0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:51.000
<v Speaker 4>radar at the moment.

0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:54.280
<v Speaker 3>So I guess.

0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:56.960
<v Speaker 7>Firstly, our kids are enrolled in Takota, which is the

0:06:56.960 --> 0:07:00.479
<v Speaker 7>New Zealand National Correspondence School. So our kids asked part

0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:03.280
<v Speaker 7>of the New Zealand Ministry of Education and doing their

0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:05.920
<v Speaker 7>learning remotely from our caravan as we travel around.

0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:07.640
<v Speaker 6>All right, tybe, Takuda go.

0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:12.920
<v Speaker 8>The teachers always asked you like if you want that,

0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:15.880
<v Speaker 8>like if you want to do that for school and

0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:19.240
<v Speaker 8>now then I say yes or you can say no.

0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:25.240
<v Speaker 2>Something moving on, Jamie, can you explain to me what

0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:26.320
<v Speaker 2>Takuda is.

0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:30.880
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, So Tikuda used to be known as the Correspondence School.

0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:34.640
<v Speaker 4>So this was made, you know, almost one hundred years

0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:38.960
<v Speaker 4>ago as a school for students in rural places that

0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:43.760
<v Speaker 4>were so couldn't get to a school in reasonable distance

0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:46.800
<v Speaker 4>each day, so they turned to some kind of online

0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:51.600
<v Speaker 4>learning and head facilities to make sure that they're getting education,

0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:56.240
<v Speaker 4>but not in I guess a stereotypical way in a classroom.

0:07:56.480 --> 0:08:00.360
<v Speaker 4>And so now Tikuta has thirty one thousand students at

0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:03.560
<v Speaker 4>the moment, it's the largest state school in New Zealand.

0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:07.760
<v Speaker 4>But it's no longer called the Correspondence School because it

0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:10.920
<v Speaker 4>has moved away from that model of learning that it

0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:15.520
<v Speaker 4>used to be known for. So enrollments are commonly a

0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:19.480
<v Speaker 4>range of things. So students have to meet eligibility criteria

0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:24.320
<v Speaker 4>to enroll. But this can include students who have families

0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:28.560
<v Speaker 4>living overseas or they've been referred for their engagement and

0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:32.240
<v Speaker 4>this may be by the Department of Corrections or odung

0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:36.200
<v Speaker 4>A Toomadi Keith. It can include young parents or people

0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:40.240
<v Speaker 4>that women that are pregnant, and it can include elite

0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:43.720
<v Speaker 4>athletes as well. So there's a really wide range of

0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:47.839
<v Speaker 4>students who are enrolled now and that's kind of why

0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:50.920
<v Speaker 4>they've moved away from being known as the Correspondence School.

0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:54.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, homeschooling was quite a niche thing when I was younger,

0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:57.080
<v Speaker 2>but I'm also a thousand years old, but it does

0:08:57.120 --> 0:08:59.520
<v Speaker 2>sound like it's something more mainstream now.

0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:03.800
<v Speaker 4>Hey, Yeah, and I guess that reflects in these numbers

0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:08.679
<v Speaker 4>that they've seen just exponential growth really since twenty eighteen.

0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:13.240
<v Speaker 4>They've had thirty two percent more enrollments since then, so

0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.320
<v Speaker 4>from twenty one thousand to thirty one thousand, and I

0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:19.000
<v Speaker 4>guess it is a niche way of schooling. And people

0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:21.959
<v Speaker 4>may say, is this due to COVID that people want

0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:25.960
<v Speaker 4>to learn online more, but Tikuta is pointing it more

0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:30.800
<v Speaker 4>towards just more students with mental health issues and social

0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:35.600
<v Speaker 4>anxiety really wanting a different type of education just to

0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:38.439
<v Speaker 4>help them and make sure that they're still getting some

0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:41.880
<v Speaker 4>kind of learning, but in a different way from normal.

0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:47.000
<v Speaker 4>So that's why they're seeing this really large growth, and

0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:52.120
<v Speaker 4>they do reckon it's believed to be partly due to COVID,

0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:56.240
<v Speaker 4>So possibly more students have realized the benefits of learning

0:09:56.280 --> 0:10:00.920
<v Speaker 4>online and really enjoy it, and that's why possibly that

0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:04.280
<v Speaker 4>there's been more students, particularly in the year nine to

0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:06.560
<v Speaker 4>thirteen age group as where.

0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:08.280
<v Speaker 3>They're seeing the most growth.

0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:12.480
<v Speaker 4>But they do teach from right from ECE to young adults,

0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:15.559
<v Speaker 4>so a really wide range of age groups there.

0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:18.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I guess if it's seeing more young people

0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:20.840
<v Speaker 2>with mental health needs than a few years ago, I

0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:23.240
<v Speaker 2>guess this is being seen as a success because these

0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:26.040
<v Speaker 2>kids would otherwise just not have gone to school.

0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:27.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and that's right.

0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:31.360
<v Speaker 4>The Tikuta chief executive, Tarena Leonard, she told me that

0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:34.400
<v Speaker 4>it's just really cool to see that these kids are

0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:37.680
<v Speaker 4>still getting some type of education because they've got that

0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:40.880
<v Speaker 4>more flexibility and they don't need to go to school

0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:44.480
<v Speaker 4>for that typical nine till three hour time slot. They

0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:48.280
<v Speaker 4>can go do some learning at six am and then

0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:51.240
<v Speaker 4>go do something during the day or go back to it.

0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:54.360
<v Speaker 4>And that's why it fits for those more elite athletes

0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:57.160
<v Speaker 4>as well, because there's so much more flexibility. But she

0:10:57.360 --> 0:11:00.520
<v Speaker 4>did remind me that there is fake to face contact

0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:04.080
<v Speaker 4>as well. They've normally got a learning advisor based in

0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:07.400
<v Speaker 4>the area, so it's not all online and there is

0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:10.640
<v Speaker 4>someone checking on them, so they've got that support like

0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:11.559
<v Speaker 4>a teacher like.

0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:21.640
<v Speaker 9>They normally would in a classroom.

0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:23.920
<v Speaker 6>When it comes to the elite athletes.

0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:25.760
<v Speaker 2>Did you see the story a few weeks ago about

0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:28.160
<v Speaker 2>the homeschool kids who missed out in those medals in

0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:30.559
<v Speaker 2>their biking competition because they were homeschooled.

0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:34.520
<v Speaker 4>Yes, yes I did, and it's easy to see how

0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:38.120
<v Speaker 4>that would happen. And I guess Tikuta is different because

0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:41.360
<v Speaker 4>it is a state school and so those kids still

0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:46.440
<v Speaker 4>get those opportunities when homeschooling is so different because it's

0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:50.920
<v Speaker 4>even more flexible than Tikuta in the online learning they provide.

0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:54.800
<v Speaker 4>So it's very easy to see that those opportunities would

0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:59.560
<v Speaker 4>just not be there for homeschooled kids because they're not

0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:03.440
<v Speaker 4>necessary doing the New Zealand curriculum. And I guess maybe

0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:06.960
<v Speaker 4>that's a reason behind why they don't get to get

0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:09.960
<v Speaker 4>these meddles and get the achievements that other students would.

0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.000
<v Speaker 4>It's a very fine line other so, yeah, there's more

0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:16.200
<v Speaker 4>in the education space than we think, and there's lots

0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:19.480
<v Speaker 4>of avenues for kids to do, which makes it more

0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:23.800
<v Speaker 4>complex than people I guess think it would be.

0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:24.320
<v Speaker 5>Yea.

0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:27.080
<v Speaker 2>Governments have been talking about mental health and kids for

0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:30.319
<v Speaker 2>years now. Does it feel like a failure that families

0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:32.720
<v Speaker 2>see it as a better option just to keep their

0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:33.559
<v Speaker 2>kids at home.

0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:34.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:38.640
<v Speaker 4>And it's hard though, because I guess it really depends

0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:42.200
<v Speaker 4>on each each child and it but it is I

0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:47.280
<v Speaker 4>guess concerning that more students are turning to these learning providers.

0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:50.400
<v Speaker 4>Of course there's several others in the country, not just

0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:53.720
<v Speaker 4>to Kuda, but it comes as those that we've got

0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:56.000
<v Speaker 4>the unice OF report that just came out last week

0:12:56.360 --> 0:12:59.679
<v Speaker 4>that found New Zealand has the highest suicide rate and

0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:04.319
<v Speaker 4>the OECD and so it does correlate with what we're

0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:08.679
<v Speaker 4>seeing in these trends to online learning. And it's definitely

0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:12.360
<v Speaker 4>something that people have told me in the sector that

0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:15.840
<v Speaker 4>they want to see more. You've mental health or recognition

0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:19.280
<v Speaker 4>of youth mental health in this budget and see the

0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:23.360
<v Speaker 4>government recognize it more. And because obviously we can't have

0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:28.160
<v Speaker 4>Takuda and other online learning providers overloaded with all these

0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:33.480
<v Speaker 4>children because it's just so so much more known than

0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.760
<v Speaker 4>it used to be, and so it's really time for

0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:39.760
<v Speaker 4>more to be done so that it doesn't get to

0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:43.400
<v Speaker 4>the point of all these children being referred because obviously

0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:47.760
<v Speaker 4>all schools in New Zealand are really struggling with resourcing

0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:48.880
<v Speaker 4>at the moment as well.

0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:56.280
<v Speaker 1>How about if children can't speak, are unable to communicate,

0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:00.559
<v Speaker 1>you look at the parents and say, how about you

0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:03.520
<v Speaker 1>do a better job of parenting before your kid comes

0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:10.080
<v Speaker 1>to school. How about principles urge families to do more

0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:15.120
<v Speaker 1>to look after their children instead of bitching and moaning

0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:24.400
<v Speaker 1>about the government demanding better support for kids who are

0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:27.640
<v Speaker 1>not toilet trained at five. It is not the teacher's job.

0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:31.040
<v Speaker 1>I couldn't agree more. It absolutely is not the teacher's job.

0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:32.800
<v Speaker 1>But nor is it the taxpayer's job.

0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:36.920
<v Speaker 5>Well.

0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:39.360
<v Speaker 2>I so you spoke to some school principles saying they're

0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:43.120
<v Speaker 2>grappling with growing numbers of new entrants with behavior and

0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:45.080
<v Speaker 2>oral communication issues.

0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:46.840
<v Speaker 6>What are they saying is to blame here?

0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:51.160
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, Well, they believe that COVID, the COVID pandemic, had

0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:55.400
<v Speaker 4>a big part to play in this, along with the

0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:59.000
<v Speaker 4>increased screen time that came with lockdowns in that period.

0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:03.160
<v Speaker 4>I talked to New Zealand Principals Federation President lynn Or Tinny,

0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:07.760
<v Speaker 4>and she believes that these children that were born around

0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:12.920
<v Speaker 4>twenty twenty in the COVID period, they also didn't get

0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:16.480
<v Speaker 4>an ECE education like a lot of other kids would,

0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:18.960
<v Speaker 4>and that's why we're seeing that there's a bit of

0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:22.600
<v Speaker 4>a lack of communication skills. She's actually saying that some

0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:25.160
<v Speaker 4>five year olds are turning up to school with virtually

0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:28.960
<v Speaker 4>no communication skills that they can. Teachers cannot even have

0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:32.920
<v Speaker 4>a conversation with these new entrants because of the increased

0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:37.800
<v Speaker 4>screen time and just not enough conversation with other kids

0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:43.200
<v Speaker 4>and teachers while going through that phase from being a

0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:47.600
<v Speaker 4>newborn toddler to a new entrant at schools. So that's

0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:55.840
<v Speaker 4>become really really more frequent after COVID. It's been known

0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:58.440
<v Speaker 4>for a while, but it's really just heightened the whole

0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:00.000
<v Speaker 4>problem at that level.

0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:04.120
<v Speaker 6>And what do we do about that? Yeah, well, this.

0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:07.600
<v Speaker 4>Is the biggest issue for education at the moment is

0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:11.920
<v Speaker 4>the need for learning support funding. So learning support is

0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:16.760
<v Speaker 4>commonly known as teacher aids or people that can help

0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:24.120
<v Speaker 4>those in schools that have neurodiversity or they just cannot

0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:25.720
<v Speaker 4>learn or have trauma issues.

0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:29.760
<v Speaker 3>It's a really wide bracket of people.

0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:33.720
<v Speaker 4>So yeah, So the New Zealand Education Institute, which is

0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:40.720
<v Speaker 4>the primary union for teachers, they say that two point

0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:44.800
<v Speaker 4>five billion dollars in learning support funding is needed by

0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:49.720
<v Speaker 4>twenty thirty to ensure that the waitlists for learning support

0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:54.080
<v Speaker 4>can be white because they're just that overloaded at the moment.

0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:58.760
<v Speaker 4>And Eric Stanford, the Minister of Education, has hinted that

0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:03.160
<v Speaker 4>we can expect more funding and learning support, but we're

0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:05.520
<v Speaker 4>just not sure how much that will be and if

0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:09.600
<v Speaker 4>it will be enough, because it's from who I've talked

0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:10.399
<v Speaker 4>to in the sector.

0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:12.359
<v Speaker 3>It's the number one problem at the moment.

0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:16.840
<v Speaker 4>It's across the board, primary school, high school eces.

0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:19.360
<v Speaker 6>Thanks for joining us, Jamie, awesome.

0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:19.760
<v Speaker 3>Thank you.

0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:27.000
<v Speaker 2>That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You

0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:30.840
<v Speaker 2>can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage

0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:34.879
<v Speaker 2>at enzdherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is

0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:38.639
<v Speaker 2>produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also

0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:39.880
<v Speaker 2>our sound engineer.

0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:41.879
<v Speaker 6>I'm Chelsea Daniels.

0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:45.600
<v Speaker 2>Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you

0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:49.440
<v Speaker 2>get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look

0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:52.399
<v Speaker 2>behind the headlines.