1
00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:05,320
Speaker 1: Hilda.

2
00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:08,480
Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a

3
00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:16,799
Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Society is

4
00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:19,560
Speaker 2: always under pressure to keep up. Given the world around

5
00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,239
Speaker 2: us is in a constant state of change. Our education

6
00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:28,120
Speaker 2: sector is no different. Education officials are attempting to crack

7
00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:32,520
Speaker 2: down on the use of artificial intelligence in NCA exams

8
00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:36,680
Speaker 2: after a rise in substantiated breaches last year. It's an

9
00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,879
Speaker 2: extra challenge for schools on top of other issues that

10
00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:44,600
Speaker 2: have emerged since COVID, like a decline in student's mental health. Today,

11
00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,400
Speaker 2: on the Front Page News Talks That'd be Education reporter

12
00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,160
Speaker 2: Jamie Cunningham joins us to discuss the multitude of problems

13
00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:58,080
Speaker 2: facing our education sector. Jamie, tell me a little bit

14
00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,760
Speaker 2: about concerns around AI So I understand there were a

15
00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,920
Speaker 2: number of NCA exam breaches last year.

16
00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:06,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.

17
00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,959
Speaker 4: So education officials are cracking down really hard on the

18
00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:14,200
Speaker 4: aius as more students are using things like chat, GPT

19
00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,760
Speaker 4: and other tools and it's actually flowed on to exams.

20
00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,160
Speaker 3: So last year MZQA.

21
00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:26,720
Speaker 4: Investigated eight hundred and seventy six reported breaches of external assessments.

22
00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:31,680
Speaker 4: Seven hundred and thirty eight were substantiated and the total

23
00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:35,000
Speaker 4: figure is a two hundred and fifty percent increase on

24
00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,680
Speaker 4: the twenty nine total which was three hundred and forty five.

25
00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,120
Speaker 4: And I guess part of that reason is a lot

26
00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:42,959
Speaker 4: of aius.

27
00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:45,160
Speaker 3: So only fifty nine last.

28
00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:50,960
Speaker 4: Year were reported breaches of involving AI use, but authenticity

29
00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:54,000
Speaker 4: was the most common type of breach with two hundred

30
00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:59,000
Speaker 4: and nine reported cases. But now principles believe that these

31
00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,400
Speaker 4: type of cases also involve AI use, But it's just

32
00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,120
Speaker 4: I guess that balance between them that it's really hard

33
00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,800
Speaker 4: for teachers and marketers to know when the technology is

34
00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:15,480
Speaker 4: being used in exams, so it's possibly been used in

35
00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:20,240
Speaker 4: these external assessments which also involve literacy and numerousy standards now,

36
00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,200
Speaker 4: so they can also be or not always in an

37
00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,320
Speaker 4: exam setting, so it could be easier in these standards

38
00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:28,040
Speaker 4: to use AI and.

39
00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:29,080
Speaker 3: Things like chat GPT.

40
00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,200
Speaker 2: Right, what do these AI breaches look like? So what

41
00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:34,480
Speaker 2: are these kids actually using it for?

42
00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:40,560
Speaker 4: Well, it's different for each student, and normally it's something

43
00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:45,080
Speaker 4: like putting a question into a software like chat, GPT

44
00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:51,079
Speaker 4: or another technology platform and asking it to write an

45
00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:55,320
Speaker 4: essay for them or googling and helping.

46
00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:56,320
Speaker 3: Someone else's work.

47
00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:00,200
Speaker 4: So that's where I guess that authenticity can get brought

48
00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,560
Speaker 4: out in the AI use because a lot of that

49
00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,839
Speaker 4: is just copying house's work, and so that obviously can

50
00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:11,600
Speaker 4: be AI when a temology has come up with this

51
00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:16,119
Speaker 4: essay or answered all these questions in an exam for them.

52
00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:20,840
Speaker 4: So it's hard to know. And that's what ENZQA are

53
00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,520
Speaker 4: also trying to like figure out at the moment is

54
00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:28,919
Speaker 4: how to provide guidance on how AI can benefit education

55
00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:33,720
Speaker 4: and teachers, and how to teach these standards using the tools,

56
00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,120
Speaker 4: but also identifying.

57
00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:41,920
Speaker 3: When it's being used and at the wrong times. I guess, I.

58
00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:46,080
Speaker 5: Guess the biggest problem they have sometimes is understanding where

59
00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:50,560
Speaker 5: their work begins and ends and where AI's work begins

60
00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:53,600
Speaker 5: and ends. You know, schools have sort of left it

61
00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,720
Speaker 5: up to teachers to decide what's okay to use AI,

62
00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,200
Speaker 5: when it's not okay to use use AI, and how

63
00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:04,480
Speaker 5: to use AI, and unfortunately, a lot of students sort

64
00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,840
Speaker 5: of see those as guidelines, not really hard rules in

65
00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,280
Speaker 5: terms of the honor code. So it's very easy for

66
00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:13,920
Speaker 5: students to see all of their classmates using AI and

67
00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,200
Speaker 5: think this is this is okay, this is a tool

68
00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:17,640
Speaker 5: that I'm going to have access to the rest of

69
00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:19,919
Speaker 5: my life. I might as well take advantage of it now.

70
00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, when we talk about authenticity, is that when a

71
00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:27,640
Speaker 2: kid in the class, you know, wouldn't have a clue

72
00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,040
Speaker 2: about how to write something about I don't know, I'm

73
00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:32,400
Speaker 2: talking from something that I did at school, but writing

74
00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:35,320
Speaker 2: an essay about the Scarlet Letter in class, for example,

75
00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:36,920
Speaker 2: and they're not able to do it, but then they

76
00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,920
Speaker 2: miraculously go home and come back tomorrow morning with like

77
00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:42,680
Speaker 2: an amazing essay about the Scarlet Letter and all of

78
00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,160
Speaker 2: its themes and pros and things like that. So is

79
00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,440
Speaker 2: that where teachers can really question it and be like,

80
00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:49,279
Speaker 2: hang on a minute.

81
00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's one example, and I guess one side of things.

82
00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:57,200
Speaker 4: But I've talked to the Secondary Principles Association who they

83
00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:02,440
Speaker 4: also say that it's more challenged to identify those cases

84
00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,920
Speaker 4: when it's a talented student and that's someone who's produced

85
00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,880
Speaker 4: some really good work throughout the year and then so

86
00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,159
Speaker 4: it's not as questioned as much when it's used in

87
00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:16,640
Speaker 4: an exam. So obviously it's easier to identify when a

88
00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:20,120
Speaker 4: student has miraculously produced some piece of work that's so

89
00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,800
Speaker 4: different from the rest of their work throughout the year.

90
00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:27,880
Speaker 4: But it is I guess hard to know when the

91
00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,640
Speaker 4: AI is being used and students that I don't know

92
00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:35,200
Speaker 4: why they're using it, but they just use it in

93
00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:38,360
Speaker 4: an exam when possibly they don't need to, but they're

94
00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,640
Speaker 4: relying on another tool to help them get a better grade.

95
00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:46,479
Speaker 6: And do the benefits of introducing digital assessments outweigh the negatives.

96
00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:48,320
Speaker 2: What I'm thinking here is why can't we just go

97
00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,559
Speaker 2: back to pensil and paper exams in person with someone

98
00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,080
Speaker 2: watching over your shoulder making sure you're not passing notes.

99
00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:56,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I guess it's a question that the whole

100
00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,080
Speaker 4: sector is asking themselves.

101
00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,520
Speaker 3: But it's also something that ENDSQA are looking into.

102
00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:07,119
Speaker 4: And I guess how AI can be used to help

103
00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,800
Speaker 4: guide students and be used as a tool before they

104
00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,920
Speaker 4: get to the examination process. So they're more looking at

105
00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,720
Speaker 4: how they can use the technology better, so it's not

106
00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:21,440
Speaker 4: relied on cheating, because it can be used as a

107
00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:25,159
Speaker 4: really useful tool that doesn't always result in cheating, but

108
00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,479
Speaker 4: it can help them learn and in that learning process,

109
00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,360
Speaker 4: so it doesn't seem like they're looking at turning away

110
00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:37,159
Speaker 4: from using the technology. But the benefits are not not

111
00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,039
Speaker 4: all there at the moment, as you can see in

112
00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,920
Speaker 4: these stats with the such a big increase on just

113
00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:44,680
Speaker 4: a few years before COVID.

114
00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,120
Speaker 3: So it's something they're.

115
00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,960
Speaker 4: Looking at, but definitely pen and paper not on their

116
00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:51,000
Speaker 4: radar at the moment.

117
00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:54,280
Speaker 3: So I guess.

118
00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,960
Speaker 7: Firstly, our kids are enrolled in Takota, which is the

119
00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:00,479
Speaker 7: New Zealand National Correspondence School. So our kids asked part

120
00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,280
Speaker 7: of the New Zealand Ministry of Education and doing their

121
00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,920
Speaker 7: learning remotely from our caravan as we travel around.

122
00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:07,640
Speaker 6: All right, tybe, Takuda go.

123
00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:12,920
Speaker 8: The teachers always asked you like if you want that,

124
00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:15,880
Speaker 8: like if you want to do that for school and

125
00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,240
Speaker 8: now then I say yes or you can say no.

126
00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:25,240
Speaker 2: Something moving on, Jamie, can you explain to me what

127
00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:26,320
Speaker 2: Takuda is.

128
00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, So Tikuda used to be known as the Correspondence School.

129
00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,640
Speaker 4: So this was made, you know, almost one hundred years

130
00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,960
Speaker 4: ago as a school for students in rural places that

131
00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:43,760
Speaker 4: were so couldn't get to a school in reasonable distance

132
00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,800
Speaker 4: each day, so they turned to some kind of online

133
00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:51,600
Speaker 4: learning and head facilities to make sure that they're getting education,

134
00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:56,240
Speaker 4: but not in I guess a stereotypical way in a classroom.

135
00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:00,360
Speaker 4: And so now Tikuta has thirty one thousand students at

136
00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,560
Speaker 4: the moment, it's the largest state school in New Zealand.

137
00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,760
Speaker 4: But it's no longer called the Correspondence School because it

138
00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,920
Speaker 4: has moved away from that model of learning that it

139
00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:15,520
Speaker 4: used to be known for. So enrollments are commonly a

140
00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:19,480
Speaker 4: range of things. So students have to meet eligibility criteria

141
00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:24,320
Speaker 4: to enroll. But this can include students who have families

142
00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:28,560
Speaker 4: living overseas or they've been referred for their engagement and

143
00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:32,240
Speaker 4: this may be by the Department of Corrections or odung

144
00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:36,200
Speaker 4: A Toomadi Keith. It can include young parents or people

145
00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:40,240
Speaker 4: that women that are pregnant, and it can include elite

146
00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,720
Speaker 4: athletes as well. So there's a really wide range of

147
00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:47,839
Speaker 4: students who are enrolled now and that's kind of why

148
00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:50,920
Speaker 4: they've moved away from being known as the Correspondence School.

149
00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, homeschooling was quite a niche thing when I was younger,

150
00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,080
Speaker 2: but I'm also a thousand years old, but it does

151
00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,520
Speaker 2: sound like it's something more mainstream now.

152
00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:03,800
Speaker 4: Hey, Yeah, and I guess that reflects in these numbers

153
00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:08,679
Speaker 4: that they've seen just exponential growth really since twenty eighteen.

154
00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:13,240
Speaker 4: They've had thirty two percent more enrollments since then, so

155
00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,320
Speaker 4: from twenty one thousand to thirty one thousand, and I

156
00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,000
Speaker 4: guess it is a niche way of schooling. And people

157
00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,959
Speaker 4: may say, is this due to COVID that people want

158
00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,960
Speaker 4: to learn online more, but Tikuta is pointing it more

159
00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:30,800
Speaker 4: towards just more students with mental health issues and social

160
00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:35,600
Speaker 4: anxiety really wanting a different type of education just to

161
00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,439
Speaker 4: help them and make sure that they're still getting some

162
00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,880
Speaker 4: kind of learning, but in a different way from normal.

163
00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:47,000
Speaker 4: So that's why they're seeing this really large growth, and

164
00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:52,120
Speaker 4: they do reckon it's believed to be partly due to COVID,

165
00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:56,240
Speaker 4: So possibly more students have realized the benefits of learning

166
00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:00,920
Speaker 4: online and really enjoy it, and that's why possibly that

167
00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,280
Speaker 4: there's been more students, particularly in the year nine to

168
00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:06,560
Speaker 4: thirteen age group as where.

169
00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:08,280
Speaker 3: They're seeing the most growth.

170
00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:12,480
Speaker 4: But they do teach from right from ECE to young adults,

171
00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,559
Speaker 4: so a really wide range of age groups there.

172
00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I guess if it's seeing more young people

173
00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,840
Speaker 2: with mental health needs than a few years ago, I

174
00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,240
Speaker 2: guess this is being seen as a success because these

175
00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,040
Speaker 2: kids would otherwise just not have gone to school.

176
00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:27,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's right.

177
00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:31,360
Speaker 4: The Tikuta chief executive, Tarena Leonard, she told me that

178
00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,400
Speaker 4: it's just really cool to see that these kids are

179
00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,680
Speaker 4: still getting some type of education because they've got that

180
00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,880
Speaker 4: more flexibility and they don't need to go to school

181
00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:44,480
Speaker 4: for that typical nine till three hour time slot. They

182
00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:48,280
Speaker 4: can go do some learning at six am and then

183
00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,240
Speaker 4: go do something during the day or go back to it.

184
00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,360
Speaker 4: And that's why it fits for those more elite athletes

185
00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,160
Speaker 4: as well, because there's so much more flexibility. But she

186
00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,520
Speaker 4: did remind me that there is fake to face contact

187
00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:04,080
Speaker 4: as well. They've normally got a learning advisor based in

188
00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,400
Speaker 4: the area, so it's not all online and there is

189
00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,640
Speaker 4: someone checking on them, so they've got that support like

190
00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:11,559
Speaker 4: a teacher like.

191
00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:21,640
Speaker 9: They normally would in a classroom.

192
00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:23,920
Speaker 6: When it comes to the elite athletes.

193
00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:25,760
Speaker 2: Did you see the story a few weeks ago about

194
00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,160
Speaker 2: the homeschool kids who missed out in those medals in

195
00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:30,559
Speaker 2: their biking competition because they were homeschooled.

196
00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:34,520
Speaker 4: Yes, yes I did, and it's easy to see how

197
00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:38,120
Speaker 4: that would happen. And I guess Tikuta is different because

198
00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,360
Speaker 4: it is a state school and so those kids still

199
00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:46,440
Speaker 4: get those opportunities when homeschooling is so different because it's

200
00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:50,920
Speaker 4: even more flexible than Tikuta in the online learning they provide.

201
00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,800
Speaker 4: So it's very easy to see that those opportunities would

202
00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:59,560
Speaker 4: just not be there for homeschooled kids because they're not

203
00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:03,440
Speaker 4: necessary doing the New Zealand curriculum. And I guess maybe

204
00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,960
Speaker 4: that's a reason behind why they don't get to get

205
00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,960
Speaker 4: these meddles and get the achievements that other students would.

206
00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,000
Speaker 4: It's a very fine line other so, yeah, there's more

207
00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,200
Speaker 4: in the education space than we think, and there's lots

208
00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,480
Speaker 4: of avenues for kids to do, which makes it more

209
00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:23,800
Speaker 4: complex than people I guess think it would be.

210
00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:24,320
Speaker 5: Yea.

211
00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,080
Speaker 2: Governments have been talking about mental health and kids for

212
00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,319
Speaker 2: years now. Does it feel like a failure that families

213
00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:32,720
Speaker 2: see it as a better option just to keep their

214
00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:33,559
Speaker 2: kids at home.

215
00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:34,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

216
00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:38,640
Speaker 4: And it's hard though, because I guess it really depends

217
00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,200
Speaker 4: on each each child and it but it is I

218
00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:47,280
Speaker 4: guess concerning that more students are turning to these learning providers.

219
00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,400
Speaker 4: Of course there's several others in the country, not just

220
00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,720
Speaker 4: to Kuda, but it comes as those that we've got

221
00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,000
Speaker 4: the unice OF report that just came out last week

222
00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:59,679
Speaker 4: that found New Zealand has the highest suicide rate and

223
00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:04,319
Speaker 4: the OECD and so it does correlate with what we're

224
00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:08,679
Speaker 4: seeing in these trends to online learning. And it's definitely

225
00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:12,360
Speaker 4: something that people have told me in the sector that

226
00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:15,840
Speaker 4: they want to see more. You've mental health or recognition

227
00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:19,280
Speaker 4: of youth mental health in this budget and see the

228
00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:23,360
Speaker 4: government recognize it more. And because obviously we can't have

229
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:28,160
Speaker 4: Takuda and other online learning providers overloaded with all these

230
00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:33,480
Speaker 4: children because it's just so so much more known than

231
00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,760
Speaker 4: it used to be, and so it's really time for

232
00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:39,760
Speaker 4: more to be done so that it doesn't get to

233
00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,400
Speaker 4: the point of all these children being referred because obviously

234
00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,760
Speaker 4: all schools in New Zealand are really struggling with resourcing

235
00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:48,880
Speaker 4: at the moment as well.

236
00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:56,280
Speaker 1: How about if children can't speak, are unable to communicate,

237
00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,559
Speaker 1: you look at the parents and say, how about you

238
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,520
Speaker 1: do a better job of parenting before your kid comes

239
00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:10,080
Speaker 1: to school. How about principles urge families to do more

240
00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:15,120
Speaker 1: to look after their children instead of bitching and moaning

241
00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:24,400
Speaker 1: about the government demanding better support for kids who are

242
00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,640
Speaker 1: not toilet trained at five. It is not the teacher's job.

243
00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:31,040
Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more. It absolutely is not the teacher's job.

244
00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:32,800
Speaker 1: But nor is it the taxpayer's job.

245
00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:36,920
Speaker 5: Well.

246
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,360
Speaker 2: I so you spoke to some school principles saying they're

247
00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:43,120
Speaker 2: grappling with growing numbers of new entrants with behavior and

248
00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:45,080
Speaker 2: oral communication issues.

249
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:46,840
Speaker 6: What are they saying is to blame here?

250
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:51,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, they believe that COVID, the COVID pandemic, had

251
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:55,400
Speaker 4: a big part to play in this, along with the

252
00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,000
Speaker 4: increased screen time that came with lockdowns in that period.

253
00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:03,160
Speaker 4: I talked to New Zealand Principals Federation President lynn Or Tinny,

254
00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:07,760
Speaker 4: and she believes that these children that were born around

255
00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:12,920
Speaker 4: twenty twenty in the COVID period, they also didn't get

256
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:16,480
Speaker 4: an ECE education like a lot of other kids would,

257
00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:18,960
Speaker 4: and that's why we're seeing that there's a bit of

258
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,600
Speaker 4: a lack of communication skills. She's actually saying that some

259
00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,160
Speaker 4: five year olds are turning up to school with virtually

260
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,960
Speaker 4: no communication skills that they can. Teachers cannot even have

261
00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:32,920
Speaker 4: a conversation with these new entrants because of the increased

262
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:37,800
Speaker 4: screen time and just not enough conversation with other kids

263
00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:43,200
Speaker 4: and teachers while going through that phase from being a

264
00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:47,600
Speaker 4: newborn toddler to a new entrant at schools. So that's

265
00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:55,840
Speaker 4: become really really more frequent after COVID. It's been known

266
00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,440
Speaker 4: for a while, but it's really just heightened the whole

267
00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,000
Speaker 4: problem at that level.

268
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:04,120
Speaker 6: And what do we do about that? Yeah, well, this.

269
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,600
Speaker 4: Is the biggest issue for education at the moment is

270
00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,920
Speaker 4: the need for learning support funding. So learning support is

271
00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:16,760
Speaker 4: commonly known as teacher aids or people that can help

272
00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:24,120
Speaker 4: those in schools that have neurodiversity or they just cannot

273
00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:25,720
Speaker 4: learn or have trauma issues.

274
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,760
Speaker 3: It's a really wide bracket of people.

275
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,720
Speaker 4: So yeah, So the New Zealand Education Institute, which is

276
00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:40,720
Speaker 4: the primary union for teachers, they say that two point

277
00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:44,800
Speaker 4: five billion dollars in learning support funding is needed by

278
00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:49,720
Speaker 4: twenty thirty to ensure that the waitlists for learning support

279
00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:54,080
Speaker 4: can be white because they're just that overloaded at the moment.

280
00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,760
Speaker 4: And Eric Stanford, the Minister of Education, has hinted that

281
00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:03,160
Speaker 4: we can expect more funding and learning support, but we're

282
00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,520
Speaker 4: just not sure how much that will be and if

283
00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:09,600
Speaker 4: it will be enough, because it's from who I've talked

284
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:10,399
Speaker 4: to in the sector.

285
00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:12,359
Speaker 3: It's the number one problem at the moment.

286
00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:16,840
Speaker 4: It's across the board, primary school, high school eces.

287
00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:19,360
Speaker 6: Thanks for joining us, Jamie, awesome.

288
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:19,760
Speaker 3: Thank you.

289
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,000
Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You

290
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,840
Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage

291
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:34,879
Speaker 2: at enzdherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is

292
00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,639
Speaker 2: produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also

293
00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:39,880
Speaker 2: our sound engineer.

294
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:41,879
Speaker 6: I'm Chelsea Daniels.

295
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,600
Speaker 2: Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you

296
00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:49,440
Speaker 2: get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look

297
00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,399
Speaker 2: behind the headlines.