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Speaker 1: The time for catch up with one of our favorites.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Libby Weaver has been here and dealt to everything

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Speaker 1: on this program, from sugar to plant based supplements, as diet,

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Speaker 1: energy processing, the whole thing. Today a little bit on

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Speaker 1: iron the role of it. Her new book is called

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Speaker 1: Fix Iron First. Efficiency is holding many of us backing

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Speaker 1: Doctor Libby Weaver is Weather's very good morning, Good morning

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Speaker 1: to you, Mike Lovely. To see iron versus anything else

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Speaker 1: you can do for yourself that's in your body. How

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Speaker 1: important does it? Where do you rank it?

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Speaker 2: Number one?

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Speaker 3: And it is not top of the conversation enough. So

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Speaker 3: it is the most common nutritional deficiency globally, including here

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Speaker 3: in New Zealand, and it particularly affects women across the

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Speaker 3: menstruation years, pregnant women and very sadly, it's estimated that

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Speaker 3: around forty percent of New Zealand children are iron deficient.

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Speaker 3: And it plays a role in everything from energy to

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Speaker 3: brain function and development, thyroid function and anxiety prevention.

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Speaker 2: So it's got a big job.

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Speaker 1: And so how come we're short of it?

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Speaker 3: We're not eating enough for a start, and then we

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Speaker 3: also need other nutrients to allow iron to do its

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Speaker 3: work inside our body, things like copper, beta care, routine,

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Speaker 3: vitamin A, so absorption gut problems can also be contributing.

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Speaker 3: And when we talk about the gut, obviously it sounds

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Speaker 3: so basic, but when we chew our food, that's what

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Speaker 3: allows us to produce stomach acid and it is literally

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Speaker 3: crucial for iron absorption, and then of course when the

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Speaker 3: iron actually reaches the gut, it has to be delivered

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Speaker 3: to the blood. And for a lot of people these days,

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Speaker 3: for lots of different reasons, including eating too much junk

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Speaker 3: food is contributing to real iron absorption gulps.

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Speaker 1: It's my favorite subject at the moment. So gut appears

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Speaker 1: to me to gut health has appears to have become

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Speaker 1: a thing. Is that true?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well in my world it's always always been.

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Speaker 1: But out here in the regular world it's suddenly become

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Speaker 1: a topic djure.

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Speaker 3: And how fabulous. And I think we currently know the

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Speaker 3: tip of the iceberg about it. Obviously, the gut microbiome

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Speaker 3: plays a huge role in our level of wellness, everything

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Speaker 3: from what calories are worth, to our immune function, our

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Speaker 3: neurotransmitter production. A lot of our neurotransmitters are actually used

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Speaker 3: in the gut, but iron is actually needed for dopamine production,

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Speaker 3: so for motivation, we need iron for gabber production, which

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Speaker 3: is an anti anxiety agent. It's sort of a chill pill,

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Speaker 3: and also serotonin for our contentment. So my worry with

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Speaker 3: this widespread iron deficiency is that that conversation is not

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Speaker 3: coming to life enough. You think of a teenage girl,

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Speaker 3: for example, and she might say, I feel really anxious.

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Speaker 3: And there's a trait in our culture right now to

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Speaker 3: go straight down a psychological or psychiatric road. And that

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Speaker 3: might be right for some people. But my concern is

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Speaker 3: that if that teenage girl is iron deficient, how do

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Speaker 3: we know that her anxiety is not coming from iron deficiency?

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Speaker 2: And I want to bring that.

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Speaker 1: To wouldn't it how many people? How much of this

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Speaker 1: is widely known? I mean our first port of call,

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Speaker 1: I mean apart from a book of yours or knowing

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Speaker 1: somebody is the doctor. Yeah, isn't it? So would a

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Speaker 1: doctor go write iron is important, let's check your iron

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Speaker 1: or not necessarily?

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Speaker 2: Not necessarily.

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Speaker 3: It's a very easy test to have done, and certainly

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Speaker 3: some of our gps are aware of it, and that's wonderful.

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Speaker 3: The tests to have done are called iron studies and

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Speaker 3: that will measure iron. It will also measure transferrin. Now

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Speaker 3: transferrin is it's good to imagine it like the bus

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Speaker 3: that drives the iron around. So when we're iron deficient

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Speaker 3: that actually goes high. Then there's transferen saturation. That's how

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Speaker 3: many little units of iron are on the bus getting

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Speaker 3: driven around. And then there's ferretin, which is iron storage.

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Speaker 3: And the normal range in New Zealand pathology labs for

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Speaker 3: ferretin for adult women is twenty to two hundred and

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Speaker 3: twenty micrograms per lead. And now that's a crazy wide range,

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Speaker 3: and we need normal ranges. It would be chaos without them.

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Speaker 3: But the trouble is if you just fall into that

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Speaker 3: normal range, you'll be told that's normal. And most women

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Speaker 3: don't have robust health when it's sitting there.

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Speaker 1: What do we do about this? We You and I

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Speaker 1: were talking about the SOFIA, so one of the great

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Speaker 1: and I'm assuming it's the same in Australia. One of

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Speaker 1: the great issues with healthcare in this country is you

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Speaker 1: can't get access to a GP. If you can't get

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Speaker 1: access to a GP, it's fifteen minutes tops. Sometimes they're interested,

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Speaker 1: sometimes they're not, and it's become this thing where people

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Speaker 1: don't follow their health journey the way they used to

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Speaker 1: because of the access to the health. So what you've

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Speaker 1: already given us in this three and a half minutes

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Speaker 1: that you've been on air is a level of complexity

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Speaker 1: and detail that may well blow most people's minds. You

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Speaker 1: see what I'm saying, And so where do I get

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Speaker 1: this information? If the doctor just goes you're on the

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Speaker 1: range of normal, I'll see you in six months.

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Speaker 3: I'm a big fan for us also participating in our

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Speaker 3: own health journey, So I really encourage people to get

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Speaker 3: copies of their own blood test results so they can

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Speaker 3: see they can track their own levels and see patterns

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Speaker 3: whether they're going up in something or going down in something.

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Speaker 3: And then that also with these sorts of conversations that

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Speaker 3: then foster is a patient to say to their doctor,

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Speaker 3: can you help me understand this a bit better? And

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Speaker 3: it might mean that they actually get some treatment.

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Speaker 1: That's a hurdle for many people too, isn't it, Because

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Speaker 1: if you're going to the doctor, the doctor's the expert.

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Speaker 1: You know nothing, So why would you ask I assume

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Speaker 1: I'm like everyone else with the GV You get a portal.

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Speaker 1: These days, you can track your bloods on a portal.

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Speaker 1: You can see the chart and all that sort of

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Speaker 1: that standard practice I'm assuming with GPS, so you can participate.

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Speaker 1: So in iron, what you also learned is that it's

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Speaker 1: not just iron. Iron does this, and you need that

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Speaker 1: to help there and suddenly it gets good. Is it complicated?

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Speaker 2: It's actually not.

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Speaker 3: I mean, my whole world is nutrition and biochemistry, and

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Speaker 3: that's why that spins my tires understanding all of this,

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Speaker 3: and it's why I tried to bring it to life

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Speaker 3: in in really easy to access kind of ways like

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Speaker 3: a book. But it's essentially it's not complicated in that

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Speaker 3: we're supposed to obtain all of our nutrition from our food,

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Speaker 3: and sadly these days it's getting harder and harder to

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Speaker 3: do that because of a thousand reasons, including soil quality.

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Speaker 3: So when also to copper is another really important nutrient

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Speaker 3: for iron once it's inside of us, and we all

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Speaker 3: used to have houses with copper pipes, sure, and now

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Speaker 3: they're plastic, So when the water flowed across the copper pipes,

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Speaker 3: we've got a little bit. There's a bit of copper

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Speaker 3: in some foods, but it can be a nutrient that

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Speaker 3: some people have a subclinical deficiency in, so that once

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Speaker 3: the ion's in them, it's not getting back to the

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Speaker 3: bone marrow, for example, to make the red blood cells.

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Speaker 3: We make two and a half million new red blood

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Speaker 3: cells every second. It's all inspiring when you think about it.

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Speaker 3: And those red blood cells can carry the hemoglobin which

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Speaker 3: iron is required for to get the oxygen to every

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Speaker 3: cell inside our body.

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Speaker 1: Excellent as far as getting anything, whether it be iron

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Speaker 1: or not, diet or supplements or both or it doesn't matter.

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Speaker 3: Well, food first in my world, but it's very hard

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Speaker 3: to get enough these days of certain nutrients from our food,

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Speaker 3: and that's why I am a big fan of supplementation.

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Speaker 2: But it needs to be good quality.

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Speaker 1: Okay, all whether once again, whether we're talking about iron

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Speaker 1: or not, how much is going on in science in

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Speaker 1: the evolution of knowledge, So what you say to me

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Speaker 1: this morning in tenye's time may well be completely different.

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Speaker 3: I agree, it's a really I always feel like it's exciting.

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Speaker 3: I'm a life enthusiast. But the research world is truly alive,

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Speaker 3: and our progress in understanding human health and the human body,

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Speaker 3: I still think we're at the tip of the Iceberg.

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Speaker 3: But instead, there's been a thought in my mind for

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Speaker 3: a long time. Do we live too short and die

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Speaker 3: too long? So we're privileged to live for a decent

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Speaker 3: amount of time, But I think that life expectancy is

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Speaker 3: going to continue to grow. But I think our opportunity

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Speaker 3: will be to live much healthier lives for longer. I

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Speaker 3: want to die healthy, and I know that sounds like

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Speaker 3: a crazy statement to make, but I think that's going

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Speaker 3: to be possible.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that's genuinely changing? What's you I mean?

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Speaker 1: I worry about asking people like you who operate in

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Speaker 1: your world, because everyone you would know would be into

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Speaker 1: it and go, oh, we're all healthy and stuff. Do

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Speaker 1: you think that message is getting through in general in

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Speaker 1: the Western world?

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Speaker 3: Yes, I do, but I feel the disparity is increasing.

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Speaker 3: So I feel that there's this beautiful message coming alive

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Speaker 3: of let's look after ourselves. What the impact you have

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Speaker 3: on yourself today won't just affect how you feel today,

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Speaker 3: but also do also in the future. But the disparity

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Speaker 3: between people having access to good health care, nutritious food,

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Speaker 3: I think that's widening, and that's way more of a conception.

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Speaker 1: And what's that about is that about education, or is

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Speaker 1: that about the economy or both?

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Speaker 2: Well, I worry.

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Speaker 3: I worry about the affordability of junk food. When I

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Speaker 3: was growing up, junk was really expensive and now it's

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Speaker 3: really cheap. And that's I feel that from an approach perspective,

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Speaker 3: that's where we really need to start to focus, because

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Speaker 3: the whole real food is what needs to be less

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Speaker 3: expensive so that it's easily accessible for people.

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Speaker 1: And do you think people who have, say, for example,

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Speaker 1: bad diet, do they know they've got a bed Excuse me, no,

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Speaker 1: they've got a bad diet, or they don't know. They

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Speaker 1: genuinely wouldn't have a clue.

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Speaker 3: Some people won't have a clue. But I think in general,

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Speaker 3: no one's going to polish off a whole tub of

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Speaker 3: ice cream after dinner thinking I'm going to feel fabulous

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Speaker 3: after I eat this. And it's not necessarily a lack

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Speaker 3: of education that leads people to do that. And it's

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Speaker 3: why my work has three pillars by chemistry, nutrition, and

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Speaker 3: emotions or mindset if you like. And so I think

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Speaker 3: that mindset pillar is just as important to you've got.

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Speaker 1: To be keen to do it. What I've discovered is

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Speaker 1: the it's a rabbit hole, and the more you look

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Speaker 1: down the rabbit hole, the more there is to know

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Speaker 1: and love. And that's I suppose what makes it fascinating,

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Speaker 1: doesn't it? But this is what I read yesterday. Headline

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Speaker 1: is this is red meat bad for your heart. It

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Speaker 1: may depend on who funded the study. So that was

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Speaker 1: in the New York Times. So how much is out there?

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Speaker 1: You're thinking, that's the way I'll hold on, No, it's not.

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Speaker 1: I mean, how many conflicted messages are they're out there?

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Speaker 3: Well, an endless array, isn't there? And you raise such

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Speaker 3: a great point. So I try to bring common sense

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Speaker 3: back to these conversations around food.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: So when we look at that at red meat, humans

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Speaker 3: have been eating consuming animal foods forever for eons. What

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Speaker 3: those animals eat, though, has changed in some countries. So

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Speaker 3: I look beyond that sort of data and look at

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Speaker 3: is that animal having what I call a species specific diet?

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Speaker 3: So are the cows eating grass rather than being popped

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Speaker 3: up on other things like grains for example. Because it

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Speaker 3: does change the fatty acid composition, it changes all sorts

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Speaker 3: of things. So I look beyond that surface level of

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Speaker 3: a headline telling you that something is bad or good.

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Speaker 1: Okay, inflammation, If we could tackle this another fascination. If

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Speaker 1: we could tackle inflammation, how big a difference to our

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Speaker 1: lives health wise would we make game changing?

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Speaker 3: It's so huge, and it's the underlying element in so

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Speaker 3: many chronic diseases. So when you think we're really fortunate

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Speaker 3: to have access to extraordinary emergency medicine, but what we're

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Speaker 3: not very good at dealing with right now is lousy

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Speaker 3: metabolic health and inflammation is one of the biggest drivers

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Speaker 3: of that. And again, to keep it really simple, the

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Speaker 3: way we nourish ourselves is the absolute foundation of that

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Speaker 3: sunlight movement sleep. I feel we've tried to make health

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Speaker 3: quite complex and some of the answers are actually really simple,

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Speaker 3: and we're not necessarily doing those basics.

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Speaker 1: Well, here's the funny thing I learned over the summer.

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Speaker 1: A person I know was a bit short on vitamin D.

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Speaker 1: Where do you get vitamin D? Sunshine exactly? So they said,

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Speaker 1: go out into the sun with no sunscreen on before

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Speaker 1: ten o'clock in the morning. But the problem was, we've

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Speaker 1: demonized the sun, and so all we do is we

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Speaker 1: slap it all over ourselves and prevent the sun in

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Speaker 1: the Bible and getting through. See that's you Mike's message again,

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Speaker 1: isn't it?

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Speaker 2: Isn't it?

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Speaker 3: And it's so it's so tricky for people to decipher it,

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Speaker 3: and it's a game.

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Speaker 2: Way. I love biochemistry.

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Speaker 3: So every cell in the human body has a receptor

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Speaker 3: for vitamin D, so that tells and also thyroid hormones.

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Speaker 2: But that tells me.

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Speaker 3: If every cell in your body REQUO has a receptor

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Speaker 3: saying feed me some vitamin D.

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Speaker 2: It's obviously very important exactly.

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Speaker 1: See as complex as it is, actually not that complex

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Speaker 1: after all, is it. It can be simple if you

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Speaker 1: want it to be.

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Speaker 2: Well, it is.

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Speaker 3: And that's why if we just think in a common

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Speaker 3: sense kind of way, so much nutrition information these days

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Speaker 3: sadly is marketing. And if we bring it back to

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Speaker 3: just thinking about again a species specific diet. Same for humans.

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Speaker 3: For so long, all we ever ate was food. And

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Speaker 3: for me, there's no such thing as junk food. There's

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Speaker 3: just junk and there's food, and right now the junk

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Speaker 3: is featuring way too much.

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Speaker 1: Fantastic, Always a thrilled to have you in the studio.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Mike, Come again, see you soon,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Livy Weaver for more from the Mic Asking Breakfast.

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Speaker 3: Listen live to news to books at b from six

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Speaker 3: am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio