1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: New changes to the Employment Relations Act have been announced 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: to Parliament today and it includes employees earning over one 3 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:08,880 Speaker 1: hundred and eighty thousand dollars losing their right to file 4 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: a personal grievance for unjustified dismissal. Now to took us 5 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: through this, we have employment specialist Jennifer Mills from Jennifer 6 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: Mills and Associates Jennifer. 7 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:17,959 Speaker 2: Hello, Hi Heather. 8 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: What has caused that? Why do we need that particular change? 9 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 2: Well? I think that this proposed change in their amendment 10 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 2: bill is arbitrary. Identifying a line in the sand with 11 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 2: somebody who's earning one hundred and eighty thousand to remove 12 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 2: their protections under the dismissal suite of dismissal mechanisms under 13 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 2: the Act is strange. 14 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: I would have. 15 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:48,480 Speaker 2: Thought that all employees would have the right to access 16 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 2: these grievance protections. What's worse is that somebody who earns 17 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 2: over one hundred and eighty thousand doesn't have a right 18 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 2: to have any information about the dis to terminate their employment, 19 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 2: and they don't even have an opportunity to respond to 20 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 2: a proposal to terminate their employment. It seems harsh to me, 21 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 2: and what it will end up meaning is that people 22 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,839 Speaker 2: will be preparing different types of claims. They'll have breach 23 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 2: of contract claims, breach of statutory duty claims and discrimination claims. 24 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 2: So there'll just be a backdoorway for these people to 25 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 2: have protections against unfair treatment. 26 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: The experience in Australia, apparently because they've already done this, 27 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: the experience in Australia has been that litigation has increased, 28 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: so you would expect the same thing to happen here. 29 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely right. This is based on the Australian model law. 30 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 2: And my colleagues in Australia tell me that the pressure 31 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 2: release or the pressure valve if you like, is through 32 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 2: discrimination claims, and I would expect that those are the 33 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 2: sorts of claims that will be drafting. We've most recently 34 00:01:55,160 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 2: seen an increase in the awards for discrimination claims out 35 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 2: of the Human Rights Tribunal. In any event, so perhaps 36 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 2: it'll be an opportunity for those senior employees to have 37 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 2: greater claims, to be able to file proceedings in the 38 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 2: separate jurisdiction. 39 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: It sounds like I asked the Minister's office today, this 40 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 1: is Brook van Valden's office. You know why they're doing it. 41 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: They say the change will help provide business confidence in 42 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: hiring will. And it's hard to know whether what they 43 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: mean by that is because they will take chances on 44 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: younger people because they know they can just get rid 45 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: of them, or whether it is about actually firing the 46 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: older guys and bringing the younger people up through the rungs. 47 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 1: What do you think is going on? 48 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 2: I suspect it will be the younger folks won't be 49 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 2: starting on one hundred and eighty thousand. I suspect it'll 50 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 2: be the more senior folks have been in the role 51 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 2: or in the organization for longer, and it will certainly 52 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 2: increase turn and turnover. And it's because the economy is 53 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,959 Speaker 2: in a dire situation. In any event, you wouldn't want 54 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 2: to be as an employee. You wouldn't want to have 55 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 2: your role at risk. It almost feels like employment at will. 56 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 2: And that's not our history that you know. We don't 57 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,519 Speaker 2: come from that place. We're not based in the US, 58 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 2: and I believe that we need these protections for all employees. 59 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:22,239 Speaker 2: The good news, though, is that these employees can negotiate 60 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 2: with their employers to include the unjustified unjustified dismissal protections 61 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 2: should they want them? 62 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: Well, but that's people who enter employment contracts after this, right, 63 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: anybody who's already an employment contracts slightly stuffed, doren't they? 64 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 2: Well, no, you can still negotiate. There's a twelve month 65 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 2: transition period for those who already have employment agreements, but 66 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 2: they can still negotiate to retain those protections. And I 67 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 2: would have thought those are the employees who are more 68 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 2: likely to be able to negotiate retaining those protections. 69 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: Hey, can ask you, Jennifer, what do you make of 70 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: the thirty day change? 71 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 2: The removal of the thirty day Well, that's owned to 72 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 2: have their unions up and arms. So that will mean 73 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 2: obviously that employees whose work is covered by the collective 74 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 2: will no longer be covered by the collective terms on 75 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 2: an individual basis for the first thirty days. It has 76 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 2: given the unions the ability to negotiate directly with those folks, 77 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,840 Speaker 2: and it has historically given the unions a leg up. 78 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 2: Now there's a swing in the balance of power, it 79 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 2: will give employers more ability to have those employees remain 80 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 2: on individual employment agreements. It will be more difficult for 81 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 2: the unions to garner support for the union and increase 82 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 2: union membership. So I would expect over time that we 83 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 2: would see a decrease in union membership with this particular change. 84 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 2: I imagine the unions will be very, very unhappy with 85 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 2: this proposed change. 86 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're probably right, Jennifer. So good to talk to you. 87 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Jennifer Mills, Employment Specialist A Jennifer 88 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 1: Mills and Associates. For more from Heather Duplessyland, listen live 89 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 1: to news Talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or 90 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 1: follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.