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Speaker 1: So the talks to in the war underway Ibane as

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Speaker 1: well where between the US and of course with Russia

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Speaker 1: in Saudi Arabia, several parties missing there, which is part

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Speaker 1: of the ongoing angst in Europe as we saw in

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Speaker 1: the last twenty four hours. Senior expert on Russia at

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Speaker 1: Britains Chathamouse Kiir Giles as well as Kia morning.

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Speaker 2: To you, good morning Egg.

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Speaker 1: Just in a very broad based question what we are

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Speaker 1: seeing in the last week or so, this tumult. Where

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Speaker 1: do you place it in terms of history?

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Speaker 2: It is a historical moment for sure. It's a huge

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Speaker 2: upsetting of all of the assumptions that were underpinning everything

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Speaker 2: to do with Euroatlantic security and by extension, everything about

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Speaker 2: the United States is place in the world for all

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Speaker 2: of those alliances, all of those partnerships globally. Where the

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Speaker 2: United States was the underpinning of what kept the world secure,

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Speaker 2: now suddenly it's the world's biggest problem. And that of

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Speaker 2: course is a massive turning point. It's not just Europe

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Speaker 2: that should be concerned, it's everywhere that sought protection from

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Speaker 2: aggressive neighbors with the United States its partner, and now

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Speaker 2: finds that the United States is the aggressor.

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Speaker 1: So what we got publicly anyway out of this meeting

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Speaker 1: overnight in read was that Levrov wants the like put

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Speaker 1: aside that two thousand and eight promise on NATO disavow

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Speaker 1: yourself of that. What else do they need?

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Speaker 2: Well, there are some very fundamental differences between what the

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Speaker 2: two sides went into these talks expecting to get out

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Speaker 2: of it. Now, you mentioned a moment ago that these

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Speaker 2: were talks to end the war or not. As far

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Speaker 2: as Russia is concerned, Russia wanted from this a normalization

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Speaker 2: of relations with the United States, and because they had

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Speaker 2: a plan, that's what they came up with. Meanwhile, the

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Speaker 2: US said it was just trying to gauge how interested

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Speaker 2: Russia was in peace. Well, we know how interested Russia

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Speaker 2: was in peace. If they wanted peace, they would just

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Speaker 2: stop fighting the war and go home. So the two

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Speaker 2: sides had very different expectations, very different results coming out

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Speaker 2: of it. And essentially, as so often, Russia has come

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Speaker 2: out of this getting everything they want and the United

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Speaker 2: States is left scratching their heads.

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Speaker 1: So where does this leave a Putin Trump meeting? Do

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Speaker 1: they need to go a lot further down the road?

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Speaker 1: Before that happens or not.

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Speaker 2: Well, nobody was expecting. Some people are promising and pouting

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Speaker 2: Trump meeting soon, but nobody was realistic. He is expecting

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Speaker 2: this to happen, and of course that is a carrot

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Speaker 2: that Russia can dangle to get further concessions from the

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Speaker 2: United States. They know that Trump wants this, They know

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Speaker 2: that Trump is keen on rehabilitating Russia, welcoming put him

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Speaker 2: back in, not as an internationally wanted war criminal, but

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Speaker 2: actually his best mate, to bring him over to the

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Speaker 2: United States. And of course they will play along with that,

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Speaker 2: and they will get as much as they can from

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Speaker 2: the Trump administration in return.

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Speaker 1: Right, But Putin also, I'm assuming wants the water we're

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Speaker 1: in for domestic purposes. It's a meat grinder out there,

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Speaker 1: and I'm assuming a number of Russians are getting a

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Speaker 1: bit sick of it.

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Speaker 2: That's a perfectly reasonable logical assumption when you look at

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Speaker 2: it from any normal country, and in particular any democracy.

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Speaker 2: But it doesn't seem to be the direction that Russia

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Speaker 2: is going Now. Nobody's in any doubt that this is

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Speaker 2: causing huge, irreversible damage to the Russian economy. It's chewed

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Speaker 2: through hundreds of thousands of Russians their lives, they're dead

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Speaker 2: or maimed, but Russia is showing every sign of pressing

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Speaker 2: on regardless because those aren't important compared to the price

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Speaker 2: that they have their eyes on. If they were to

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Speaker 2: be deterred by any of those, there's things they would

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Speaker 2: have stopped by now.

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Speaker 1: So we've got a ways to go. We'll stay in

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Speaker 1: contact here. Appreciate very much. Kia Jiles, who's senior expert

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Speaker 1: on Russia at Chathamhouse in Britain.

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Speaker 2: For more from The Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to

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Speaker 2: news talks.

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Speaker 1: It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast

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Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio