1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Now. Bill Gates has today shocked some by pushing back 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: at climate change doomsayers in quite spectacular fashion. He's released 3 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: an essay arguing that we worry too much about climate change, 4 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:12,960 Speaker 1: we should instead focus on more urgent things like fixing hunger. 5 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: He says climate change will not lead to humanity's demise, 6 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 1: poverty and disease are a bigger threat. Adrian Macy is 7 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: Victoria University's adjunct professor Professor of Climate Change and with. 8 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 2: Us Hi Adrian Gofdean Heatherer. 9 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: Is he right in saying it will not wipe out humanity? 10 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,879 Speaker 2: Well? Interesting that the new head of the head of 11 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 2: the IPC sing and that's that science of the body 12 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 2: that looks at the science and advises the world. Jim Scare. 13 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 2: One of the first things that he said when he 14 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 2: came into the position was, look, it's not it's not 15 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,160 Speaker 2: the end of humanity. You know, if there's more degrees 16 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 2: of warming then we're planning for. But I would say 17 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,840 Speaker 2: that Gates is not saying, so let's stop, let's stop 18 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 2: worrying about climate change per se. If you look at 19 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 2: if you look at what he's been doing, He's put 20 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 2: huge amounts of money into really positive stuff, no energy 21 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 2: transfer stuff in developing country, and he's still arguing for that. 22 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,960 Speaker 2: But I think what his message is, to my mind 23 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 2: quite a come to me, quite quite a reality check 24 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 2: of these cops. I mean, we have this thing every 25 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 2: year now, where as we go go towards the end 26 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 2: of the year, we have everyone saying, look, things are 27 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 2: far worse, and we thought we're missing all that targets, 28 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 2: this is the very last chance to save the planet. 29 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 2: We send up to one hundred thousand people somewhere in 30 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,559 Speaker 2: the world for two weeks who then fail to save 31 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 2: the planet. I mean, this year, we're having it in 32 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 2: this huge gathering, massive expense, in the middle of the 33 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 2: Amazon rainforest. I mean, to me, it's something of an absurdity. 34 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 2: So I'm rather on Bill Gate's side here. But definitely 35 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 2: he's not saying don't worry about climate No, I. 36 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: Don't know, he's not Adrian, He's no one saying he's 37 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: saying that. He's saying. He's not saying don't worry about 38 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: climate change. He's saying, be proportionate in your worry about 39 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: climate change. Is he right that we've been disproportionate. 40 00:01:57,760 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 2: I think what we've done well I would be with 41 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 2: on one thing, this this total focus on targets and timetables, 42 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 2: which is all about you go along to a cop 43 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 2: and you say, well, we're going to do x percent 44 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 2: by a year. Why the big question is what are 45 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,079 Speaker 2: you doing now? How are you trans what are you 46 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 2: doing to transition your economy, renewable energy? What are you 47 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 2: doing on agriculture? And that that's that's the thing. And 48 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 2: I see what he's saying is, yes, have a bit 49 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 2: more of a don't don't assume it's going to be armaged. 50 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,799 Speaker 2: And if we sail past the one point five degrees, 51 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 2: which we have already, but think about the positive things 52 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 2: that you need to do. So I think it's a 53 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 2: pretty to my mind, a pretty practical message. 54 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: Tell me something, Adriana, what is your your take on 55 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: on what appears to be the Overton windows shifting on 56 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: climate change? Do you know what I mean? 57 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 2: Well, if you yeah, then the messages are coming in 58 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 2: pretty consistently. I mean, you've got, of course, the big thing. 59 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 2: When you've got the world's biggest economy pulls out of 60 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 2: the Powis Agreement, we're really what we at the moment, 61 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 2: who's the terming future of temperatures more like China and 62 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 2: developing countries. But you're finding this message, even which they're 63 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 2: having difficulties within Europe at the moment getting agreement on 64 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 2: these are more ambitious targets, and I think there is 65 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 2: a if you like her to go to some of 66 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 2: the Maslow hierarchy of needs. You've got cost of living 67 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 2: crises and you've got wars everywhere, slide exaggeration, but you 68 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 2: these these things are taking that there and people's consciousness more. 69 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 2: I think climate changes slip down a little in people's consciousness. 70 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:33,399 Speaker 2: So yeah, that's that's a fair point. 71 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: Adrian, It's always a pleasure to talk to you. Thank 72 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: you for your time. 73 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 2: Mate. 74 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: That's Adrian Macy, who is an adjunct professor of climate 75 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: change at Victoria University. For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, 76 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: listen live to news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, 77 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.