1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,640 Speaker 1: The Reserve Bank says most of us are still keen 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: on using physical cash. It recently asked for feedback on 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: making cash available in a digital form, and the bank 4 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: says it drew the highest number of responses it has 5 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: ever received on anything it is asked for. Eighty four 6 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 1: percent of us we're worried about losing access to physical cash, 7 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: with big concerns around the privacy of how we spend 8 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: our money. The Reserve Banks Director of Money and Cash 9 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: is Ian Wilfred and thanks for being on the show. 10 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: Why do people want the secrecy of cash? 11 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 2: I think there are good reasons why people worry about 12 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 2: their privacy, and it's you know, it's a personal choice. 13 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 2: You know, money is quite a personal thing and I 14 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 2: think it's quite natural for people to have concerns about 15 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 2: people monitoring their use. 16 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: Is that what would happen with a digital currency. 17 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 2: No, No, not at all. In fact, you know, we've 18 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:02,959 Speaker 2: been very clear that privacy is is really important to us. 19 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 2: We put out a big paper on it when we 20 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 2: did our consultation. This is what we call it digital cash. 21 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 2: It's to replicate cash. You know, it's private, it's quick, 22 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 2: you know you can it's fast, direct, you can use 23 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 2: it offline. That's what we call it digital cash. 24 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: And what what am I? What am I holding? Or 25 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: how do how do I pay with it? 26 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 2: Well, just as you you use different ways of paying 27 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 2: using your private bank account. Now you might use a 28 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 2: digital wallet, you might use a card, you might just 29 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 2: plug it into the internet. It would be the same 30 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 2: with digital cash, right, so might just be a choice 31 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:43,479 Speaker 2: that you have. 32 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: My debit card right now? I you know I have 33 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: cash in my bank account. Well I don't. I mean, 34 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: that's the thing. Really, I don't do it. I had 35 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: there's a number on a screen. I mean, how is it? 36 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: How is it different? I guess? How is digital cash 37 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: different to what I do with my debit hard right now? 38 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 2: Well, there are a few differences. One is you could 39 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 2: use it person to person, So rather than transferring money 40 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 2: from your bank to another person's bank and then eventually 41 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 2: they get it, you could just do it direct. So 42 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 2: you've got your digital wallet on your phone, someone else 43 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 2: has got a phone. That's what we call peer to peer. 44 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 2: It's direct. You could do it offline, so when the 45 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 2: powers out, the internet's down, you'd still have that functionality. 46 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 2: You can't do that at the moment, you can do 47 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,399 Speaker 2: it with cash, but you can't do that with your 48 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 2: private lack of bank accounts. 49 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: What about then, I think I get my head around that. 50 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: What about the privacy issue people have with digital cash? 51 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: Then how do you say, we know one will know 52 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: even though it's digital, no one will know what you're 53 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: spending your money on. 54 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 2: So at the moment you know, when you do any 55 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 2: form of digital transaction, it leads, it leads a trail, right, 56 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 2: there's a footprint there. But what we've said is reserve 57 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 2: bank who will issue the digital cash, won't see any 58 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,839 Speaker 2: of the transactions because the way you'll do the transactions 59 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 2: is using a digital wallet, So the reserve bank won't 60 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 2: see the details. 61 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: Of that, right. 62 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 2: So that's the point that we're making, right. 63 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: So you won't, but someone will, which I guess is 64 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: what people are worried about, which is why they like 65 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: physical cash, because you have completits it at all. Right, 66 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,679 Speaker 1: So will you ever take physical cash away from us? 67 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 2: Absolutely not. In fact, the two things that really matter 68 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 2: to people are privacy and we care about that as well, 69 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 2: and keeping physical cash and we care about that as well. 70 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 2: We're doing a lot of work on cash trials and 71 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 2: rural communities. We're looking at how do we make the 72 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 2: cash system continue to be there for people. So digital 73 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 2: cash is not an attempt to replace physical cash. It's 74 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 2: to give people choice of do you want digital or 75 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 2: physical or do you just want to use your bank 76 00:03:57,960 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 2: account money. 77 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: Currently in New Zealand and you only have to accept 78 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: cash as a business for debt, that's my understanding of it. 79 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: In Norway, because of the risk of Russia and cyber attacks, etc. 80 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: They're actually moving back towards cash and they're changing the 81 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: law to make it compulsory for food outlets like a 82 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: supermarket or a petrol station to accept cash in order 83 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: that they encourage cash and society. You know, should they 84 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: need it, should the power goo art, et cetera. Would 85 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: we look at something similar here, Not that Russia is 86 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: a concerned but we have frequent weather events. 87 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 2: Yea. We are looking at all of those issues right 88 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 2: at the moment. So we did a big consultation a 89 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 2: few years ago saying, you know, there's a whole lot 90 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 2: of issues in the cash system at the moment. We 91 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 2: need to look at things like cash acceptance and cash availability. 92 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 2: So we're looking at all of those issues and in fact, 93 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 2: a lot of countries around the world are getting more serious. 94 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 2: Australia's just made announcements about you know, retailers having to 95 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 2: accept cash. So we're definitely looking at all of that 96 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 2: because we care about the cash system. 97 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 1: Thank you, Ian that's in Wolford with me, the Reserve 98 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: Bank Director of Money and Cash. 99 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 2: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to 100 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 2: news talks. 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