1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,387 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:12,067 Speaker 1: from Newstalk ZB. 3 00:00:12,707 --> 00:00:16,147 Speaker 2: Former All Blacks half back and a stute rugby analyst 4 00:00:16,187 --> 00:00:21,067 Speaker 2: commentator and Strawn and overall, how happy do you think 5 00:00:21,067 --> 00:00:23,147 Speaker 2: the All Blacks coaching staff will be with the eighty 6 00:00:23,147 --> 00:00:23,947 Speaker 2: minutes in Dublin. 7 00:00:24,747 --> 00:00:28,067 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd say they're extremely happy, Piney. You know, I 8 00:00:28,067 --> 00:00:31,067 Speaker 3: mean this is this Northern tour well documented now, how 9 00:00:31,067 --> 00:00:33,667 Speaker 3: difficult to figure with the English, the Irish and the 10 00:00:33,707 --> 00:00:37,747 Speaker 3: French lined up week after each other. This was probably 11 00:00:37,747 --> 00:00:40,587 Speaker 3: going to be the big tests for mine because you know, 12 00:00:40,787 --> 00:00:42,907 Speaker 3: the All Blacks went great where they against England, that 13 00:00:43,027 --> 00:00:45,827 Speaker 3: got the job done. This was about making a real 14 00:00:45,867 --> 00:00:50,027 Speaker 3: statement in Ireland where they've had such a wonderful home record, 15 00:00:50,627 --> 00:00:52,907 Speaker 3: and I just think, you know, they got so many 16 00:00:52,947 --> 00:00:56,107 Speaker 3: things right. They resurrected some things from the English game, 17 00:00:56,147 --> 00:00:58,187 Speaker 3: but also brought some new pieces, new pictures that we 18 00:00:58,227 --> 00:01:01,787 Speaker 3: haven't probably seen in pretty difficult conditions. So I mean 19 00:01:02,107 --> 00:01:03,067 Speaker 3: they'll be over the moon. 20 00:01:03,107 --> 00:01:06,147 Speaker 2: I would imagine what were some of the innovations that 21 00:01:06,467 --> 00:01:09,627 Speaker 2: you saw today that perhaps have been have been kept 22 00:01:09,667 --> 00:01:11,267 Speaker 2: in the locker until now. 23 00:01:12,467 --> 00:01:13,907 Speaker 3: I thought they went back to a lot of just 24 00:01:13,987 --> 00:01:16,867 Speaker 3: those kind of single dents, those single carries off ruck, 25 00:01:17,027 --> 00:01:20,587 Speaker 3: just keeping it pretty simple. Initially the rock ball wasn't 26 00:01:20,587 --> 00:01:23,467 Speaker 3: great for cortizer artima, but they got that sorted later on. 27 00:01:23,547 --> 00:01:25,747 Speaker 3: You know, they were just making little dents every time, 28 00:01:26,067 --> 00:01:27,907 Speaker 3: putting the iris and pushing them back, and then of 29 00:01:27,947 --> 00:01:29,907 Speaker 3: course when they went to release the ball out the back, 30 00:01:30,427 --> 00:01:32,867 Speaker 3: it wasn't the traditional second man plays. It was a 31 00:01:32,907 --> 00:01:35,867 Speaker 3: little shift and then a short ball, someone coming coming 32 00:01:35,907 --> 00:01:37,747 Speaker 3: on a different line, changing the line, and then of 33 00:01:37,747 --> 00:01:40,507 Speaker 3: course when the WID's done around the corner, they're getting 34 00:01:40,547 --> 00:01:42,627 Speaker 3: the ball to the edges. And we saw Mark Talia 35 00:01:42,747 --> 00:01:45,027 Speaker 3: Caleb Clark have good nights with the ball well Jordan 36 00:01:45,067 --> 00:01:48,107 Speaker 3: as you mentioned before, and also I thought Rickly Yowani 37 00:01:48,107 --> 00:01:50,667 Speaker 3: probably had one of his best tests in a number 38 00:01:50,707 --> 00:01:54,547 Speaker 3: mate as well. So those backs really starting to contribute 39 00:01:54,867 --> 00:01:56,667 Speaker 3: in terms of an offensive perspective. 40 00:01:57,787 --> 00:02:00,147 Speaker 2: What did you see from Ireland in the first twenty 41 00:02:00,187 --> 00:02:03,507 Speaker 2: minutes or so that disrupted the speed of New Zealand's 42 00:02:03,507 --> 00:02:04,547 Speaker 2: ball from the base of the ruck. 43 00:02:06,467 --> 00:02:08,827 Speaker 3: Just ruthless at breakdowns. I mean, they've always been a 44 00:02:08,907 --> 00:02:11,587 Speaker 3: really hard and aggressive team at the breakdown. You know 45 00:02:11,667 --> 00:02:14,347 Speaker 3: that the chop tackle, the second man arriving and then 46 00:02:14,347 --> 00:02:17,627 Speaker 3: the third man sometimes when they start barging and getting 47 00:02:17,667 --> 00:02:21,267 Speaker 3: that counter rut going. They just didn't want to leave 48 00:02:21,387 --> 00:02:24,067 Speaker 3: the cortez artima with any time at all. They just 49 00:02:24,107 --> 00:02:25,867 Speaker 3: tried to keep trying to slow the ball down, push 50 00:02:25,907 --> 00:02:28,347 Speaker 3: the envelope at times. At let's be honest, they probably 51 00:02:28,387 --> 00:02:30,427 Speaker 3: could have been penalized a few more times that breakdown, 52 00:02:30,427 --> 00:02:32,467 Speaker 3: but they just came ruthlessly and of course it did 53 00:02:32,507 --> 00:02:36,067 Speaker 3: slow our ball down. And interesting enough, in that second 54 00:02:36,147 --> 00:02:38,307 Speaker 3: half when we started to clean rucks of it, you know, 55 00:02:38,387 --> 00:02:40,467 Speaker 3: cam Roygard came on. I thought he played really well 56 00:02:40,507 --> 00:02:43,187 Speaker 3: as well, but he had a lot more freedom to 57 00:02:43,707 --> 00:02:46,187 Speaker 3: move the ball and kick as well. A bit of 58 00:02:46,187 --> 00:02:48,267 Speaker 3: a transformation here. But yeah, they did a great job 59 00:02:48,307 --> 00:02:49,787 Speaker 3: the Irish first half at breakdown. 60 00:02:50,907 --> 00:02:53,627 Speaker 2: Good courtis right, that might have done anything differently to 61 00:02:53,907 --> 00:02:57,707 Speaker 2: alleviate the you know, the problem he was facing at 62 00:02:57,707 --> 00:02:58,187 Speaker 2: that time. 63 00:02:59,987 --> 00:03:01,947 Speaker 3: I think probably just at the odd time, he was 64 00:03:02,027 --> 00:03:04,907 Speaker 3: just a bit confused whether to shift the ball, whether 65 00:03:05,027 --> 00:03:07,027 Speaker 3: to pull back a little bit, give himself a bit 66 00:03:07,067 --> 00:03:09,827 Speaker 3: of time and obviously taxi across with his running game, 67 00:03:09,867 --> 00:03:13,307 Speaker 3: which we know he's got, and I mean at times 68 00:03:13,307 --> 00:03:15,067 Speaker 3: he probably just didn't get that quite right, and of 69 00:03:15,067 --> 00:03:17,467 Speaker 3: course there's so much pressure from the iris at breakdown, 70 00:03:17,507 --> 00:03:19,907 Speaker 3: he just had no time really to make the wrong 71 00:03:19,947 --> 00:03:22,467 Speaker 3: decision and he probably did a couple of times. But 72 00:03:22,507 --> 00:03:24,187 Speaker 3: of course, you know, the other thing he needs to 73 00:03:24,227 --> 00:03:26,387 Speaker 3: probably do and be mindful like a young all Black, 74 00:03:26,907 --> 00:03:29,667 Speaker 3: is to get up as Fords and getting him past 75 00:03:29,747 --> 00:03:31,667 Speaker 3: the ball and starting to protect the ball because it's 76 00:03:31,667 --> 00:03:33,667 Speaker 3: not his job. The boys in front of him to 77 00:03:33,787 --> 00:03:35,587 Speaker 3: carry the cleaners. The are the ones that have got 78 00:03:35,627 --> 00:03:38,467 Speaker 3: to do the job for him. So you know, halfbacks 79 00:03:38,467 --> 00:03:40,307 Speaker 3: as we know, mate, we can spray the forwards every 80 00:03:40,347 --> 00:03:41,747 Speaker 3: now and then. Well, he probably needs to do a 81 00:03:41,747 --> 00:03:43,467 Speaker 3: bit more of that, particularly when it gets messy. 82 00:03:44,587 --> 00:03:47,427 Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure that'll come with time and experience one 83 00:03:47,467 --> 00:03:49,067 Speaker 2: out from him. You and I have spoken a lot 84 00:03:49,067 --> 00:03:51,907 Speaker 2: about Damien McKenzie over the year and what did you 85 00:03:51,947 --> 00:03:53,147 Speaker 2: make of his performance today? 86 00:03:54,467 --> 00:03:57,467 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, you know it is a single Test match, 87 00:03:57,507 --> 00:03:59,507 Speaker 3: but yeah, I thought definitely he came of age. I 88 00:03:59,547 --> 00:04:03,587 Speaker 3: spoke to hither See yesterday Allen and the question was 89 00:04:03,987 --> 00:04:06,867 Speaker 3: is he legit as a starting teen? I thought the 90 00:04:06,947 --> 00:04:09,307 Speaker 3: week before he came on and did some miraculous thing, 91 00:04:09,387 --> 00:04:12,347 Speaker 3: some wonderful moments which got the team across the line 92 00:04:12,347 --> 00:04:14,907 Speaker 3: against England. But the pressure markers always, can he start 93 00:04:14,947 --> 00:04:17,867 Speaker 3: the game? Can he plot the team around the field 94 00:04:17,907 --> 00:04:20,787 Speaker 3: with some consistency, you know, the likes we've seen Harry 95 00:04:20,827 --> 00:04:22,867 Speaker 3: Plummer do it, We've seen Josh Jacob do it. The 96 00:04:22,907 --> 00:04:26,587 Speaker 3: younger ones coming through. Just stick to script, and I 97 00:04:26,627 --> 00:04:29,187 Speaker 3: thought that's what he did. He didn't overplayer's hand. There 98 00:04:29,187 --> 00:04:31,507 Speaker 3: were a couple of handling ears, I suppose, with immense 99 00:04:31,547 --> 00:04:33,827 Speaker 3: pressure from the Irish, but he put the ball in 100 00:04:33,867 --> 00:04:37,787 Speaker 3: the right places. He's kicking goals brilliantly, you know, hardly 101 00:04:37,827 --> 00:04:40,147 Speaker 3: missed the kick, which obviously makes aig difference when the 102 00:04:40,187 --> 00:04:42,947 Speaker 3: Iris give up so many penalties. But I don't know, 103 00:04:42,987 --> 00:04:45,787 Speaker 3: he just he seemed like a real solid pivot for 104 00:04:45,907 --> 00:04:48,307 Speaker 3: us for the first time in a while, and that's 105 00:04:48,347 --> 00:04:50,427 Speaker 3: really encouraging him. I take my hat off to him. 106 00:04:50,427 --> 00:04:52,747 Speaker 3: And he's always playing under pressure, isn't he, because we're 107 00:04:52,747 --> 00:04:55,067 Speaker 3: always questioning about whether he's good enough to be there. 108 00:04:55,147 --> 00:04:59,467 Speaker 3: So yeah, it was a nice, nice shift, as I say, 109 00:04:59,507 --> 00:05:00,987 Speaker 3: a little bit of a coming of age from He's 110 00:05:00,987 --> 00:05:02,707 Speaker 3: going to have to do it again, of course when 111 00:05:02,747 --> 00:05:05,107 Speaker 3: he's required to but he should be very proud of 112 00:05:05,107 --> 00:05:05,707 Speaker 3: that performance. 113 00:05:06,587 --> 00:05:08,467 Speaker 2: What did you make of Ireland in the last twenty minutes. 114 00:05:08,507 --> 00:05:09,787 Speaker 2: I know the All Blacks were putting a lot of 115 00:05:09,787 --> 00:05:13,587 Speaker 2: pressure on and forcing errors, but this was still being made. 116 00:05:13,587 --> 00:05:14,987 Speaker 2: Did it look to you like an Irish side that 117 00:05:15,067 --> 00:05:16,707 Speaker 2: hasn't played for a few months. 118 00:05:17,107 --> 00:05:18,867 Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, there's I mean, you know, we use the 119 00:05:18,867 --> 00:05:20,787 Speaker 3: old gie said there were rustiness, isn't it? You know? 120 00:05:20,947 --> 00:05:24,667 Speaker 3: So just in terms of the attack, they just looked 121 00:05:24,707 --> 00:05:26,667 Speaker 3: at bit offul night. I thought they got really flat 122 00:05:26,667 --> 00:05:28,907 Speaker 3: at times. They didn't give themselves enough debt to sort 123 00:05:28,907 --> 00:05:31,827 Speaker 3: of create play and try and manipulate to get to 124 00:05:31,867 --> 00:05:33,547 Speaker 3: where they wanted to get to, which is often on 125 00:05:33,587 --> 00:05:35,587 Speaker 3: the edges, isn't it. They played to the edges a lot, 126 00:05:36,387 --> 00:05:39,707 Speaker 3: you know. So yeah, then just a little bit brest 127 00:05:39,707 --> 00:05:44,427 Speaker 3: of ideas, chasing the game again, throwing passes Willie Nelly 128 00:05:44,467 --> 00:05:46,747 Speaker 3: where they normally wouldn't. So yeah, they just kind of 129 00:05:46,787 --> 00:05:49,867 Speaker 3: came unstuck. I think as a collective unit, particularly on 130 00:05:49,907 --> 00:05:52,427 Speaker 3: a check because they did enough defensively and we just 131 00:05:52,427 --> 00:05:54,427 Speaker 3: spoke about the rucks how good they were in terms 132 00:05:54,427 --> 00:05:57,787 Speaker 3: of recycling the ball. So an Iris team that gave 133 00:05:57,827 --> 00:06:00,227 Speaker 3: away way too many penalties and just made too many 134 00:06:00,267 --> 00:06:01,787 Speaker 3: simple eras on a check. 135 00:06:02,907 --> 00:06:05,547 Speaker 2: What did you make of the yellow card for Jordi Barrett. 136 00:06:06,507 --> 00:06:08,187 Speaker 3: Make my fist look at it. To be honest, I 137 00:06:08,227 --> 00:06:10,147 Speaker 3: thought he hit his shoulder being you know, in that 138 00:06:10,267 --> 00:06:12,267 Speaker 3: kind of you know, because of the head class with 139 00:06:12,307 --> 00:06:15,307 Speaker 3: the initial shoulder contact, I thought I might be all right. 140 00:06:15,587 --> 00:06:18,307 Speaker 3: But I guess to the lead of the law, you know, 141 00:06:18,387 --> 00:06:21,347 Speaker 3: shouldered in head and they're very very precious, which they 142 00:06:21,347 --> 00:06:24,827 Speaker 3: should be around the head. So look, you could go 143 00:06:24,907 --> 00:06:27,227 Speaker 3: either way. But I guess that was certainly wasn't a 144 00:06:27,227 --> 00:06:30,307 Speaker 3: red card. And I mean, you know he got the yellow, 145 00:06:30,347 --> 00:06:33,187 Speaker 3: so I guess you know that was justice suspense. 146 00:06:34,027 --> 00:06:37,907 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I'm struggling with the rule. And I 147 00:06:37,907 --> 00:06:41,107 Speaker 2: don't know about you, but because you're look at him, 148 00:06:41,107 --> 00:06:43,187 Speaker 2: take another yellow card for the all Blacks. But then 149 00:06:43,227 --> 00:06:45,227 Speaker 2: you look at it and you say, I don't know 150 00:06:45,347 --> 00:06:48,187 Speaker 2: about the rule around this yellow card. But there have 151 00:06:48,347 --> 00:06:50,787 Speaker 2: been yellow cards and consecutive test matches now for the 152 00:06:50,827 --> 00:06:53,347 Speaker 2: all Blacks. Is it something they'll at least examine? 153 00:06:54,787 --> 00:06:56,907 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. And you know the other thing 154 00:06:56,907 --> 00:06:58,587 Speaker 3: we've got to remember that, you know a lot of 155 00:06:58,587 --> 00:07:01,907 Speaker 3: the yellow cards obviously coming in the tackle area. You know, 156 00:07:02,107 --> 00:07:05,747 Speaker 3: sometimes you have time to get your technique right and 157 00:07:05,827 --> 00:07:08,507 Speaker 3: sometimes you don't. And bear in mind that Bundyak he 158 00:07:08,587 --> 00:07:11,027 Speaker 3: had punched through the middle, got a little offload away, 159 00:07:11,707 --> 00:07:13,467 Speaker 3: you know. And if you look at Jordie Berrett, he 160 00:07:13,507 --> 00:07:17,147 Speaker 3: has a split checkend to adjustice footwork to make a tackle, 161 00:07:17,827 --> 00:07:20,627 Speaker 3: you know. And I don't think that's ever ever considered. 162 00:07:20,867 --> 00:07:22,947 Speaker 3: It's just if they get it wrong to the wrong area, 163 00:07:23,267 --> 00:07:25,027 Speaker 3: they're going to get mail with a yellow card, you know. 164 00:07:25,067 --> 00:07:27,827 Speaker 3: I mean he had a split second to get a 165 00:07:28,067 --> 00:07:29,907 Speaker 3: good body around in the right place and get a 166 00:07:29,907 --> 00:07:32,707 Speaker 3: good shoulder shot on, you know. So sometimes we don't 167 00:07:32,747 --> 00:07:35,507 Speaker 3: even consider, you know, the timing, and then of course 168 00:07:35,507 --> 00:07:38,747 Speaker 3: all the mitigating factors about players slipping and falling and 169 00:07:38,787 --> 00:07:40,187 Speaker 3: all the rest of it. I mean, it's a bit 170 00:07:40,227 --> 00:07:42,827 Speaker 3: of a mind field pinty, to be honest, But I 171 00:07:42,827 --> 00:07:46,107 Speaker 3: guess ultimately we are trying to look after the head 172 00:07:46,387 --> 00:07:48,187 Speaker 3: and we know how precious that is. 173 00:07:49,027 --> 00:07:52,467 Speaker 2: Yep. Absolutely, there's no doubt about the motivation for it all. 174 00:07:52,667 --> 00:07:54,947 Speaker 2: All right. So next week then it's France the all 175 00:07:54,987 --> 00:07:57,547 Speaker 2: black scope and with I guess the I don't know 176 00:07:57,547 --> 00:07:59,227 Speaker 2: whether the pressure is off. You might have a view 177 00:07:59,267 --> 00:08:02,027 Speaker 2: on this. Are they've beaten England, they've beaten Island, they 178 00:08:02,027 --> 00:08:05,547 Speaker 2: go to France. Now you know what sort of mindset 179 00:08:05,587 --> 00:08:06,907 Speaker 2: will they have going to that game. 180 00:08:08,627 --> 00:08:11,707 Speaker 3: Well, I think the ultimate thing for mine is you know, 181 00:08:11,747 --> 00:08:14,147 Speaker 3: I mean that's most of Yelliners probably thought that this 182 00:08:14,267 --> 00:08:17,867 Speaker 3: autumn tour was going to create some losses in the tank, 183 00:08:18,227 --> 00:08:20,867 Speaker 3: you know, add a few more on well, you know, 184 00:08:20,987 --> 00:08:24,027 Speaker 3: two and zero. They go to France against a team 185 00:08:24,387 --> 00:08:27,027 Speaker 3: again that we don't often follow and know a lot about, 186 00:08:27,427 --> 00:08:30,827 Speaker 3: you know, and they've got so much extravagant, innovative ways 187 00:08:30,867 --> 00:08:32,987 Speaker 3: to play the game. They're big and strong and physical, 188 00:08:33,907 --> 00:08:36,107 Speaker 3: so they're going to present another challenge for this all 189 00:08:36,107 --> 00:08:41,507 Speaker 3: black group. But the momentum around this group is phenomenal. 190 00:08:41,547 --> 00:08:43,307 Speaker 3: We spoke about the coaching at the front end of 191 00:08:43,307 --> 00:08:46,347 Speaker 3: this chat, but the players themselves, you can just start 192 00:08:46,347 --> 00:08:48,267 Speaker 3: seeing the belief and I mean they're not they're not 193 00:08:48,387 --> 00:08:51,707 Speaker 3: changing a lot of people. They had two force changes, 194 00:08:51,827 --> 00:08:54,227 Speaker 3: I would I would say, the team unless those two 195 00:08:54,267 --> 00:08:55,987 Speaker 3: come back and online, which I don't think they will, 196 00:08:56,027 --> 00:08:59,587 Speaker 3: will be pretty similar again, getting some nice consistency of selection, 197 00:09:00,227 --> 00:09:02,467 Speaker 3: and I know and they know they can step up 198 00:09:02,467 --> 00:09:04,627 Speaker 3: a little bit more, you know, so maybe the French 199 00:09:04,707 --> 00:09:07,947 Speaker 3: game presents those opportunity needs to show a little bit 200 00:09:07,987 --> 00:09:10,547 Speaker 3: more about what this group has got as they continue 201 00:09:10,587 --> 00:09:13,587 Speaker 3: to grow. And that's all we've got to be encouraged about. Point. 202 00:09:13,627 --> 00:09:15,787 Speaker 3: I mean, you want to see the growth in the team, 203 00:09:16,587 --> 00:09:21,107 Speaker 3: and no better way to test the growth against the 204 00:09:21,267 --> 00:09:24,547 Speaker 3: very best in their backyard and that's what we're currently 205 00:09:24,547 --> 00:09:25,307 Speaker 3: seeing right now. 206 00:09:26,227 --> 00:09:28,867 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great, great observation as always, and hay 207 00:09:28,867 --> 00:09:30,227 Speaker 2: gread to talk to you man untol the rest of 208 00:09:30,267 --> 00:09:30,907 Speaker 2: your weekend. 209 00:09:31,387 --> 00:09:34,507 Speaker 3: Always amen, I must say too wonderful tribute by yourself 210 00:09:34,827 --> 00:09:36,947 Speaker 3: with Nesbo on facetok So it's brilliant. 211 00:09:37,707 --> 00:09:39,947 Speaker 2: Oh good on you, thanks mate, Yet no three hundred 212 00:09:39,987 --> 00:09:42,947 Speaker 2: and fifty test matches. It deserves a week tribute thanks 213 00:09:42,947 --> 00:09:44,787 Speaker 2: an good to chat to your and straw and former 214 00:09:44,827 --> 00:09:45,427 Speaker 2: All Black. 215 00:09:45,787 --> 00:09:48,987 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. Listen live 216 00:09:49,067 --> 00:09:52,467 Speaker 1: to News Talks b weekends from midday or follow the 217 00:09:52,507 --> 00:09:54,027 Speaker 1: podcast on iHeartRadio.