Speaker 1: You're listening to the Resident build Up podcast with Peter
Speaker 1: Wolfcamp from News Talks at Bay.
Speaker 2: And the grass is overgrown in the yard, even when
Speaker 2: the dog.
Speaker 3: Is too old to borrow.
Speaker 4: And when you're sitting at the table trying to have to.
Speaker 5: Start, I have scissor home, even when we leave a
Speaker 5: band gone, even when you're there alone, a home. House
Speaker 5: is a home, even when those ghost even.
Speaker 2: When you got around from the ones you love your most,
Speaker 2: you scream those broken plaints feeling from the wood locals
Speaker 2: whisper when they're going to leave, the.
Speaker 5: Neighbor the house, even when wilban, even when you're in there. Loone.
Speaker 3: Well, a very good morning, and welcome along to news
Speaker 3: Talk set Bes a resident builder on Sunday with me
Speaker 3: Peter wolf Camp, the resident builder, looking forward to your calls,
Speaker 3: your conversation this morning around all things building and construction.
Speaker 3: So I trust you've had a good week. I think
Speaker 3: that sense that well, I had that sense that maybe
Speaker 3: we had had a very mild winter, escape the worst
Speaker 3: of it, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, and a bit of a
Speaker 3: reality check. Pretty miserable all day yesterday and certainly not
Speaker 3: that much more pleasant this morning. So the markets are
Speaker 3: off by the way, that's where probably I would have
Speaker 3: been heading anyway, That's beside the point. Good morning, welcome along.
Speaker 3: It is an opportunity for you to talk about all
Speaker 3: things construction, whether it's a project that is underway and
Speaker 3: going well not going well. I mean, I've got a
Speaker 3: call from a mate who you know, we often just
Speaker 3: call talk about, you know, challenges and the job, those
Speaker 3: sorts of things. Friday afternoon, that's not a good time
Speaker 3: to get a call from anyone to go, hey, look,
Speaker 3: just wondering what the best way forward in this particular
Speaker 3: situation was. So if you need to chat about a
Speaker 3: project that you've got on, you can do so by
Speaker 3: calling eight hundred eighty ten eighty. You can text through
Speaker 3: nine two nine two, and you can email Pete at
Speaker 3: NEWSTALKZB dot co dot m Z. Yesterday was again I said,
Speaker 3: it was a fairly miserable all day, and I set
Speaker 3: out in the afternoon to spend a little bit of
Speaker 3: productive time in the workshop and then realize that in
Speaker 3: order to do what I intended to do, I needed
Speaker 3: to keep going in and out of the workshop. I
Speaker 3: needed to get gear out of the back of the Masda,
Speaker 3: and I just kind of went to be fair, it's
Speaker 3: it's miserable and I don't know that I want to
Speaker 3: get wet. I'm in the shed. I'm not getting a
Speaker 3: wet in their, but can I be bothered one around?
Speaker 3: And then as I was tidying up, I found this
Speaker 3: offcut of color steel, just flat sheet that I'd got
Speaker 3: from me mate who does flashings, and I, ah, that's right.
Speaker 3: I was going to make what I call a witch's cap,
Speaker 3: so just a good old fashioned cowling or cap for
Speaker 3: event pipe. So I've got one hundred bill vent pipe
Speaker 3: through a little roof that I built to ventilate the
Speaker 3: hot air that builds up in a roof. And when
Speaker 3: I did it, I got the guys, the roof is
Speaker 3: to flash it, put the penetration through, and I just
Speaker 3: put a fixed cap on the top, with the attention
Speaker 3: of either finding which is not that easy, a cowling cap,
Speaker 3: or having the time to make one. And so then
Speaker 3: it was like, now, how do I you do these?
Speaker 3: How do you take a flat sheet of steel, a
Speaker 3: flat sheet of color steel and turn it into a
Speaker 3: conical shape, which prompted to be fair A little bit
Speaker 3: of investigation on YouTube where I found lots of videos
Speaker 3: about how to make a cone, but not a cap.
Speaker 3: And then eventually it popped up and it was like, oh,
Speaker 3: that's right, they're actually really really simple to do. So
Speaker 3: I got a couple of pieces of paper, compass out,
Speaker 3: strapped a mark a pen to it, made one out
Speaker 3: of just as a template, and thought, no, it's going
Speaker 3: to be slightly too big, made another one, worked out
Speaker 3: how much I needed to cut, like a segment to
Speaker 3: cut out, then to wrap it around, transferred that across
Speaker 3: onto the flat sheet, got the did a dash to
Speaker 3: the back of the truck, grabbed all of the cutters
Speaker 3: and bits and pieces that I needed, folded that up,
Speaker 3: made some little legs on it. Job done. Very productive
Speaker 3: afternoon in the end, actually, and I was about to
Speaker 3: abandon ship anyway, stick with it is the key there,
Speaker 3: there's always a job to do. And then I posted
Speaker 3: about it yesterday, just a bit of a funny thing online,
Speaker 3: and someone said, is that a to do it cap?
Speaker 3: Around to it? Around to it? And I thought, around cap,
Speaker 3: I've heard of a round to it cap. I should
Speaker 3: go and have a look. So I did a quick
Speaker 3: Google search of what's an around to it cap? And
Speaker 3: of course it's not there's no such thing, but it
Speaker 3: is though one of those jobs. I'll get round to it.
Speaker 3: And yes, I did get round to it yesterday and
Speaker 3: it felt pretty damn good. Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty.
Speaker 3: Let's rip into it. If you've got a question of
Speaker 3: a building nature, and this is a fairly wide field, right.
Speaker 3: This can be about compliance and can be about projects,
Speaker 3: It can be about contractors, it can be about regulations,
Speaker 3: it can be about contracts. Eight hundred eighty ten eighty
Speaker 3: and we'll have a crack at all of those issues.
Speaker 3: A very good morning to you, Robert.
Speaker 6: Oh, good a, Peter, Robert. I've got a project where
Speaker 6: I want to have a sunroom built attached to the house. Yes,
Speaker 6: and it's going to be about thirty square meters. Reading
Speaker 6: the regulations, you definitely need a building consent.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say so. And I know that that
Speaker 3: whole thing around shed you. One of the Building Act
Speaker 3: has expanded the scope of work that you can do.
Speaker 3: But I think because this is attached to the building,
Speaker 3: it's obviously going to be in a sense of habitable space,
Speaker 3: as in you'll be able to it'll be fully enclosed.
Speaker 3: Otherwise we'd call it a porch. Then I think, yes,
Speaker 3: it would require a building consent and also thirty square
Speaker 3: meters that's going to add you know, a lot of
Speaker 3: footprint to the property. It's a decent sized roof that's
Speaker 3: going to go on it. Yep, I would say building consent.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, it's funny you mentioned about a porch because
Speaker 6: a friend of mine says you don't need to get
Speaker 6: a consent. He used to be in the building industry,
Speaker 6: always off and it's a porch.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 6: But you know I read about like you know, the
Speaker 6: council catches onto it, you can get fined, it can ash,
Speaker 6: you pull it back down. I'd rather just do it
Speaker 6: the right way and as long as it's straightforward getting
Speaker 6: the building, because it seems like you're allowed to do it.
Speaker 6: When I built the house, I built to the maximum
Speaker 6: thirty five percent of a five hundred and fifty square
Speaker 6: meter section. But it seems like the last few years
Speaker 6: you're allowed to add on a bit more.
Speaker 7: Now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, i'd agree with you and look to be fair.
Speaker 3: When we did our extensions, gosh, more than twenty years ago,
Speaker 3: it was the same thing. You know, I think our
Speaker 3: permissible site coverage was thirty five percent or thirty seven
Speaker 3: percent with a bit of discretion. Typically nowadays it's not
Speaker 3: terribly difficult to get to fifty percent.
Speaker 6: Right in the middle of the section that's not close
Speaker 6: to the line or anything. So fine, I wouldn't need
Speaker 6: to get neighbors permissioned. I live in a private right
Speaker 6: of way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's fee simple. It's not a cross lease property.
Speaker 6: No, it's not a cross the way across lease.
Speaker 3: Then you're I don't think you'll need neighbors permission. It
Speaker 3: sounds like it's not going to be terribly close to
Speaker 3: the boundary. But I think you've probably strayed into an
Speaker 3: area that I feel that we haven't discussed enough at
Speaker 3: the moment that when you said it should be relatively
Speaker 3: straightforward to get a building consent, And I would imagine
Speaker 3: that anyone who's applied for a building consent in the
Speaker 3: last couple of years probably is listening to the shaking
Speaker 3: their head, going oh, mate, you don't know the drama
Speaker 3: that you're in for. And unfortunately, I think the overwhelming
Speaker 3: sense we have around the process of gaining a building
Speaker 3: consent is just it's really challenging, seemingly now, if you
Speaker 3: and your project should be relatively straightforward, right, it's a
Speaker 3: relatively simple structure, there's an existing building, there, there's no
Speaker 3: issues around services, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. It
Speaker 3: should be if it's well drawn, it goes and it
Speaker 3: gets stamped and you can get underway with it. But
Speaker 3: I just almost everyone I talk to at the moment
Speaker 3: talks about the process of getting a building consent is
Speaker 3: really really challenging for a number of different reasons. Part
Speaker 3: of that might be, you know that some I would
Speaker 3: imagine that there's a large number of building consent applications
Speaker 3: and plans that go into council that are poorly done,
Speaker 3: and so counsel has to keep asking questions. But in
Speaker 3: some cases, I think counsel just seems to be able
Speaker 3: to make what is relatively straightforward incredibly difficult at the moment. Okay,
Speaker 3: but I don't mean to put you off. I'm just saying,
Speaker 3: if suddenly you put it in and then it becomes
Speaker 3: a bit of a drama, don't be surprised.
Speaker 6: Okay, Yeah, So what's the resource consent? I don't need that.
Speaker 3: I think it's unlikely that you would need a resource consent.
Speaker 3: So typically a resource consent is triggered when essentially resource
Speaker 3: consents part of the Resource Management Act, and it's going, well,
Speaker 3: if you're going to use a resource and air, water,
Speaker 3: et cetera, then where you've got to explain how what
Speaker 3: you do is going to impact on the environment. Now,
Speaker 3: in your situation, you're going to add thirty square meters
Speaker 3: of impermeable cover to the property. Is that does that
Speaker 3: trigger a requirement for a resource consent? Probably not, because
Speaker 3: you're still well under let's say a fifty percent maximum
Speaker 3: site coverage that you might be able to have. Are
Speaker 3: you in a historic zone and you're doing something to
Speaker 3: a house that's protected by the nineteen forty or pre
Speaker 3: nineteen forty heritage overlay? Probably not, you know those sorts
Speaker 3: of things. So I would have thought that very unlikely
Speaker 3: that you would have had you would need a resource consent.
Speaker 6: Oh okay, I've just got two more questions. My wife,
Speaker 6: she actually wants to build it bigger. I said, our
Speaker 6: thirty square meters that season the regulations? Is there any
Speaker 6: chart site that counts will prove of you put forward
Speaker 6: plans for sun room over thirty square meters?
Speaker 3: I think if you went to over thirty square meters.
Speaker 3: They just consider it in addition to the property right.
Speaker 3: And again, if you've got the site coverage and you're
Speaker 3: not infringing height in relation to boundary, so it's not
Speaker 3: your intention to build let's say within a meter of
Speaker 3: your neighbor's boundary, it's not going to be too tall.
Speaker 3: Then again that should be relatively straightforward.
Speaker 6: Okay. Then the other thing is materials. I researched a
Speaker 6: little bit. There's aliminion versus PVC, and straight away I
Speaker 6: thought I prefer alaminion, but I heard that PVC is
Speaker 6: a lot stronger, but a bit more costly. And building
Speaker 6: in Wellington like here, I'm on a high wind zone,
Speaker 6: I'm on a ridge. Do you know much about the
Speaker 6: difference between.
Speaker 3: Seem to see? I mean you PVC has made its
Speaker 3: way into the market. It's been around for a while,
Speaker 3: but it's a little bit more mainstream whether or not
Speaker 3: they would do fabrication for something like because when you
Speaker 3: say a sunput or a sunroom, are you thinking that
Speaker 3: the whole thing will come essentially prefabricated, like it's an
Speaker 3: off site manufacturer. So you do a slab and then
Speaker 3: the whole thing would come kit setted, let's say, and
Speaker 3: be installed on site. So you're not talking about you know,
Speaker 3: conventional construction where you do a slab, you'd frame up
Speaker 3: some walls, add some windows and a roof to it.
Speaker 3: You want all of that to be in a sunroom style.
Speaker 6: Yeah, what I understand? What of research for some companies
Speaker 6: as pre YEP they and install it. I hear that
Speaker 6: the PVC I thought it was just completely all PVC,
Speaker 6: But does it have a metal component inside the PVC
Speaker 6: to make it stronger?
Speaker 3: That No, So the actual joinery suite that you're talking about,
Speaker 3: if it's uPVC, the extrusions are all are the structural elements, right,
Speaker 3: so you don't need anything else that goes with it.
Speaker 3: I haven't experienced it where they've used uPVC in a sunroom,
Speaker 3: like most of the sunrooms that I've seen have typically
Speaker 3: either been timber or aluminium. But you know, one of
Speaker 3: the things I guess you've got where you will probably
Speaker 3: be quite heavily impacted with new building consent rules and
Speaker 3: new Building Code regulations in terms of energy efficiency, is
Speaker 3: you're going to be adding a great deal of glazing, right,
Speaker 3: so the performance of the glazing has got to be
Speaker 3: very very good in order for you not to in
Speaker 3: a sense be penalized for putting so much more glass
Speaker 3: into your building. Right, so you're going to find that
Speaker 3: the performance standard required of the glazing is going to
Speaker 3: be quite high in order for you to achieve H
Speaker 3: one compliance. Okay, yeah, maybe they'll take an attitude that
Speaker 3: goes because are you going to still have doors between
Speaker 3: the sunroom and your existing house?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 6: Currently the house is, it's got sliding doors, it goes
Speaker 6: out on patio.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, and you want to encompass that patio and
Speaker 3: create the sunroom there, but your your intention is not
Speaker 3: to remove those sliding.
Speaker 6: Doors, not to remove them.
Speaker 3: Okay, that changes things because essentially what you're adding to
Speaker 3: the outside isn't going to impact the thermal efficiency of
Speaker 3: your house because you're keeping your doors there, right, So
Speaker 3: then you're not going to have to build to as
Speaker 3: high a standard in terms of thermal efficiency for the
Speaker 3: sunroom as you will if you were intending to take
Speaker 3: those doors out and include that space into your house
Speaker 3: without means of locking it away or.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 3: That makes it a lot more simple. Worth investigating the
Speaker 3: uPVC because there may well be some advantages. I'm not
Speaker 3: aware of anyone who does them a new PVC. Typically
Speaker 3: they've been always an aluminium worth investigating. Absolutely, yes, good
Speaker 3: luck with the process. Okay, all the very best, All right,
Speaker 3: take care, Robert, My pleasure love with them. In fact,
Speaker 3: talking about glazing, we've got Nick Hardy Jones from Metro
Speaker 3: Performance Glass joining us at around seven forty five this
Speaker 3: morning to talk about exactly what we were just discussing
Speaker 3: there with Robert, the changes to H one of the
Speaker 3: Building Code. This talks about energy efficiency and thermal performance
Speaker 3: of our building envelope and obviously because we like to
Speaker 3: have windows up with a lot of glass and that
Speaker 3: glass now has to comply. So with a bit of
Speaker 3: a deep dive into H one compliance and glazing with
Speaker 3: Nick Hardy Jones from Metro Performance Glass at around seven
Speaker 3: forty five this morning, we'll take a short break. Francis
Speaker 3: is waiting for us. We'll come to her in just
Speaker 3: a moment. If you would like to join us, OH,
Speaker 3: eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call.
Speaker 3: We'll have a spear line for you in just a moment.
Speaker 3: If you'd like to join us, OH, eight hundred eighty
Speaker 3: ten eighty is the number. To call, just off the
Speaker 3: back of Robert's comment about going wanting to add a
Speaker 3: thirty square meter sun room, do I need a consent?
Speaker 3: I think you probably do for the scale of it,
Speaker 3: and then okay, well, hopefully that'll be relatively easy and
Speaker 3: you could probably hear sort of a sharp intake of
Speaker 3: breath from my point of view or from me going,
Speaker 3: it's probably not going to be And I tell you what,
Speaker 3: just a quick opinion on my part. All of this
Speaker 3: focus at the moment around not so much the h
Speaker 3: one changes. I love the way in which building is
Speaker 3: so political at the moment.
Speaker 8: Right.
Speaker 3: There's so much discussion and discourse around building, and around
Speaker 3: regulations and around affordability, and around who controls the process,
Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera, and much of it is focused
Speaker 3: on trying to gain efficiencies by allowing the whole debate
Speaker 3: around the sixty square meter granny flat thing right, Submissions
Speaker 3: ended for that would be interesting to see what some
Speaker 3: of the feedback comes back at in the next couple
Speaker 3: of weeks and to see what decision the government makes
Speaker 3: so extending Schedule one of the Act, allowing for more
Speaker 3: work to be able to be done without necessarily requiring
Speaker 3: a building consent, all of which is the intention seems
Speaker 3: to be to make things more affordable, to speed up
Speaker 3: the process. But I wonder whether the focus is a
Speaker 3: little bit misguided, that in fact, the focus should be
Speaker 3: on changing the consenting process and can ultimately changing the
Speaker 3: joint and several liability from councils. So counsels, I think
Speaker 3: have a real reluctance to they have such a low
Speaker 3: risk attitude that they're adding hurdles into the process of
Speaker 3: getting your building consent because they end up being the
Speaker 3: only one remaining when the building goes wrong. So maybe
Speaker 3: it's actually our consenting process and the liability side of
Speaker 3: it that needs attention, not playing around the edges going
Speaker 3: oh well, maybe you can do more work without a consent.
Speaker 3: More on that later. Oh eight hundred and eighty ten
Speaker 3: eighty is the number to call. Francis a very good morning.
Speaker 9: Welcome, welcod morning morning. Yes, I'm meaning about a problem
Speaker 9: in my drive way two meters from the garage door.
Speaker 9: I had a hole appear in the gravel driveway about
Speaker 9: the size of a dinner plate. So I rang an
Speaker 9: engineer in Auckland I know, and we measured it and
Speaker 9: it goes directly about ninety centimeters in one direction and
Speaker 9: about forty in another. And he said, put a stick
Speaker 9: in it and check there was water in that in
Speaker 9: the hole further in quite a long way in. So
Speaker 9: he suggested I ring a plumber. I had a plumber
Speaker 9: come round quite quickly actually, And they've suggested they suspect
Speaker 9: it's a collapse soak pit in the driveway. Yes, now
Speaker 9: I don't, and that it would be I'd have to
Speaker 9: they have to do. They poured water down one of
Speaker 9: the down pipes in the garret and said, yes, the
Speaker 9: water is going there, but what do you suggest The
Speaker 9: engineers suggested that it could be a collapsed very old pipe,
Speaker 9: you know, from a long time ago. They have said
Speaker 9: that it to do it correctly. If it is a
Speaker 9: collapse soak pit, that it's going to cost a considerable
Speaker 9: amount of money. And I'm wondering if you've got any
Speaker 9: advice about this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, yeah. So it's a gravel driveway, so it's
Speaker 3: not concreted, and it's a couple of meters from the house,
Speaker 3: and when you pour water down the down pipe you
Speaker 3: can hear it or see it gurgling at the bottom.
Speaker 3: Of this whole lit.
Speaker 9: I didn't hear the plumber's heard it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, on and off? Yeah sure, sure, I think Francis,
Speaker 3: I probably wouldn't describe it as a collapse soakage pit
Speaker 3: because the way that soakage pits work is there a
Speaker 3: hole in the ground filled with rubble or with scoria,
Speaker 3: and they don't typically collapse. Now, possibly it's a chamber
Speaker 3: that's collapsed. That might have happened, but I think it's
Speaker 3: more likely that it's an old drainage pipe that's collapsed
Speaker 3: or jointed, and so water is flowing into there and
Speaker 3: then scouring out all of the fill around it, and
Speaker 3: that's what's caused effectively a sinkhole in your driveway. I
Speaker 3: would have thought that the people to come and open
Speaker 3: all of that up is actually a drain layer. So
Speaker 3: you'd be looking for an experienced drain layer who would
Speaker 3: come and excavate the area, find both ends of the pipe,
Speaker 3: remove the part that's collapsed, reconnect them, and then check
Speaker 3: that water is flowing to Do you actually have stormwater
Speaker 3: connection as in stormwater to a council line?
Speaker 9: No, No, this is Masterton City, Yeah no, it's.
Speaker 10: Everywhere.
Speaker 3: Okay, then I wonder whether it is like an old
Speaker 3: chamber that has collapsed, in which case, yes, it could
Speaker 3: be quite expensive to remove the existing one. Add in
Speaker 3: a new chamber. Maybe go through the process of getting
Speaker 3: it tested in terms of how much water can go
Speaker 3: into that chamber, how much it can contain. Hopefully you
Speaker 3: won't have to do things like investigate the ground conditions
Speaker 3: to check the suitability for sokage. It does get a
Speaker 3: little bit complicated after that. I think a drain layer,
Speaker 3: like a local experienced drain layer, would be the person
Speaker 3: to get They'll be the one doing the work. Now,
Speaker 3: some plumbers are drain layers as well, but not necessarily.
Speaker 3: So you want a drain layer, not necessarily a plumber, right.
Speaker 9: Well, the the manager of the plumbing firm who does
Speaker 9: do drain lay in they are coming on Monday morning,
Speaker 9: and I think the city councils coming on Monday morning
Speaker 9: as well, the man from the city council because there's
Speaker 9: no drainage plan for this particular house. It's an old house.
Speaker 11: Yeah, it's a ninety house.
Speaker 3: Well, without wanting to be overly cautious, who invited the
Speaker 3: council representative?
Speaker 9: I did? I ran, I ran because it was three
Speaker 9: thirty on a Friday.
Speaker 3: I understand, and I didn't want this.
Speaker 9: It's quite close to the house, yes and a half,
Speaker 9: and I didn't want the side of the house clap.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Sure, I understand that. I'm going to put this as
Speaker 3: delicately as I can. Is there any way to uninvite
Speaker 3: the council inspector.
Speaker 9: I don't know. Probably they just said I'd send someone
Speaker 9: around on Monday.
Speaker 3: Certainly, just make sure that your drainage guy is there
Speaker 3: at the same time as the council inspector, and ideally
Speaker 3: a little bit beforehand. The reason I say this is
Speaker 3: that what I don't want to see happen is that
Speaker 3: council comes along and then they look at it and
Speaker 3: they say, Okay, look, I'm really sorry, Francis, but we're
Speaker 3: going to have to make an official note about this
Speaker 3: on the file. We're going to require you to get
Speaker 3: a building consent to cover the drainage work. We need
Speaker 3: you to upgrade your stormwater connection, et cetera, et cetera,
Speaker 3: and the job becomes a much bigger job than repairing
Speaker 3: a broken pipe. Right, So I'm trying to ensure that
Speaker 3: that doesn't happen. So between you and I as if
Speaker 3: no one was listening, I would probably bring council on
Speaker 3: Monday and say, look, actually the matter is being handled
Speaker 3: by a registered drain layer. There's no need for you
Speaker 3: to come out. Thank you very much for offering to
Speaker 3: come out and try that, and then get your drain
Speaker 3: layer to look at it, see whether they come up
Speaker 3: with a good, practical, sensible solution for you, and then
Speaker 3: go from there. But I think not saying that it
Speaker 3: will get into a much bigger job, but it's I
Speaker 3: think you can handle this with a suitable contractor.
Speaker 9: Right, Thank you very much. That was my brother's a
Speaker 9: mechanical engineer, and I rang him and he's done building
Speaker 9: all around the world and he gave me the advice
Speaker 9: to ring a plumber and drain lab. But I had
Speaker 9: already rang. I rang the council. Yeah, to give a
Speaker 9: drainage plan. That's all I wanted.
Speaker 3: Yes, here, look, and to be fair, you know a
Speaker 3: lot of old council records, well there was a period
Speaker 3: of time where well you know, you've had to submit
Speaker 3: as built plans for quite a while. So if you
Speaker 3: did want to find out what the council have, you
Speaker 3: could request the property bag and the council file from council,
Speaker 3: they might be to do that for you or get
Speaker 3: the drain layer to do that on your behalf. See
Speaker 3: how you go there, let us know how you get on. Francis.
Speaker 3: I'm always curious with these ones.
Speaker 9: Might chauple of weeks because I've got a few medical
Speaker 9: We'll get back.
Speaker 3: Please do.
Speaker 9: Thank you very very much, lovely to talk to you.
Speaker 3: All the very best, Take care, God bless Francis. I
Speaker 3: will explain my reluctance to have council involved in a moment.
Speaker 3: It is six thirty six eight hundred eighty ten eighty
Speaker 3: is the number to call if you've got a project
Speaker 3: on it gives a call eight hundred eighty ten eighty
Speaker 3: your new books, he'd be quick text before we chat
Speaker 3: with Christine. Hey Pete, I'm a builder in a smaller
Speaker 3: territorial authority, but I build out but build access for tas,
Speaker 3: so he's got access to four territorial authorities local councils. Basically,
Speaker 3: over fourteen years, I've built over five hundred houses and
Speaker 3: the consent process is, as you describe it, an absolute nightmare.
Speaker 3: It becomes a game like a school teacher checking for
Speaker 3: spelling mistakes. They're so scared of what if and looking
Speaker 3: for the elephant that is not in the room, all
Speaker 3: at the cost or frustration of the end user. And
Speaker 3: how or where do you go to complain about their
Speaker 3: pedantic questions. I could write a book on the subject,
Speaker 3: and look, he's you know, even if you try and
Speaker 3: take a more nuanced or balance view, the texture is
Speaker 3: probably right. And you'd have to say, if you've built
Speaker 3: five hundred houses and dealt with five hundred building consents,
Speaker 3: I can imagine you'd have a long list of those questions.
Speaker 3: And you know, I'm always reluctant to be fair to
Speaker 3: you know, poke at councils because it seems like they're
Speaker 3: a big, slow moving target and quite easy to sort
Speaker 3: of put the boot into. And that's not my intention.
Speaker 3: But you also have to listen to the end user,
Speaker 3: ie builders, developers, people involved in the construction sector, and
Speaker 3: listen to their constant frustration at how slow the process is,
Speaker 3: how often pedantic it is, how unable they are to
Speaker 3: get sensible responses to reasonable requests, et cetera, et cetera,
Speaker 3: et cetera, And go all of the government's focus on
Speaker 3: sort of freeing up, or making housing affordability more efficiency,
Speaker 3: et cetera. Is focusing on changing bits of legislation, but
Speaker 3: maybe it should focus on the actual consenting process. And
Speaker 3: for good reason, counsel are extremely reluctant to allow anything
Speaker 3: that might come back and basically bite them in the
Speaker 3: ass to be built because they end up being the
Speaker 3: only one left over when you know the developer has
Speaker 3: gone from being developer twenty twenty two corporation to develop
Speaker 3: a twenty twenty three corporation, when building firms disappear, et cetera,
Speaker 3: et cetera. Now, part of the process of the LBPS
Speaker 3: thing was that it was always individuals, right, so you
Speaker 3: could pursue an individual if I do a record of works,
Speaker 3: it's my number that goes on there, and that's not
Speaker 3: my company. I can fold my company, but I'm still
Speaker 3: personally liable as an LBP. It's still on my license.
Speaker 3: But maybe all of this focus on efficiency and that
Speaker 3: should actually be a focus on liability. This whole thing
Speaker 3: about joint and several. In fact, we're going to have
Speaker 3: Mike Thornton, who's a lawyer specializing and building contract law
Speaker 3: with us again in the next couple of weeks. We
Speaker 3: should talk about joint and several liability and is there
Speaker 3: a better model that perhaps allows more responsibility to be
Speaker 3: taken by the contractors for the quality of the work,
Speaker 3: but backed up by insurance. If you don't have insurance
Speaker 3: public liability insurance, contractor insurance, insurance, etc. Then you won't
Speaker 3: be able to build. You just have to have it
Speaker 3: and then any issues with quality going forward come back
Speaker 3: to the insurer. Seems like a more straightforward and it's
Speaker 3: to be fair. This is how they work overseas in
Speaker 3: a large number of countries that I'm aware of. We
Speaker 3: can talk about that too. Eighty ten eighty is the
Speaker 3: number to call Christine.
Speaker 12: Good morning, Good morning, And that's what I want to
Speaker 12: talk about.
Speaker 11: Consents.
Speaker 12: I'm just getting a job done. At the moment. The
Speaker 12: draftsman has done all the plans that the builder has done,
Speaker 12: It drawn up a thing. Now. The thing what I'm
Speaker 12: doing is I've got about about one hundred year old villa.
Speaker 12: I'm closing in the return verandah and that's going to
Speaker 12: become an en suite to the master droom.
Speaker 8: Yep.
Speaker 12: Now, the draftsman told me that I don't need a
Speaker 12: building consent. I need a plumbing consent. The builder tells
Speaker 12: me I need a building consent, and I said to him, well,
Speaker 12: the draftsman said I didn't. And now these two guys
Speaker 12: have worked together before on my house too, when I
Speaker 12: had completely gutted when I bought it about five or
Speaker 12: six years ago, and the builder was telling me he
Speaker 12: now works with the draftsman because he's a really good guy.
Speaker 12: They've been working.
Speaker 3: All that's great.
Speaker 12: I do not want to go to council and ask
Speaker 12: them what's the situation.
Speaker 3: I would have thought that it definitely requires a building consent, right,
Speaker 3: not just a plumbing consent. And because it's.
Speaker 12: Not going outside the original parameters of the house.
Speaker 3: True, but you are impacting on You're impacting well, it
Speaker 3: impacts on h one because you're you're exterior cladding and
Speaker 3: your exterior envelope changes, right, So it's that's a building issue.
Speaker 12: You're putting away, we're using the original weather boards, we're
Speaker 12: reusing them on the outside of the building.
Speaker 3: Yep, so where they are at the moment you're taking
Speaker 3: them off and flipping them to the outside, but you're
Speaker 3: still installing new joinery. You are changing the envelope, so
Speaker 3: you're changing the footprint of the house. I would have
Speaker 3: thought ninety nine percent sure that that triggers a requirement
Speaker 3: for a building consent.
Speaker 12: That's all right, I just wanted to, you know, to
Speaker 12: get somebody else.
Speaker 3: It would be really interesting to get something in writing
Speaker 3: from the drafts person as to why they felt that
Speaker 3: work could be done without essentially under Schedule one of
Speaker 3: the Building Act, which allows for some building work to
Speaker 3: be done without necessarily requiring a building consent. And also
Speaker 3: what type of shower are you installing? What type of
Speaker 3: shower system do you want to install?
Speaker 12: Oh, just a normal box shower.
Speaker 3: Okay, prefabricated one. You're not going to do waterproofing and tiles?
Speaker 12: No, no, no, no.
Speaker 3: Because often that triggers a requirement for a building consent
Speaker 3: because it's around the waterproofing system that goes into it.
Speaker 3: I would have thought that, because effectively you're increasing the
Speaker 3: habitable space of your house by taking an outdoor space
Speaker 3: i e. The verandah and making that habitable space, that
Speaker 3: would trigger the requirement for a building consent, regardless of
Speaker 3: the amount of space that you're taking. But again, you know,
Speaker 3: if the draft person is convinced that you don't need
Speaker 3: one you'd want him to have, you know, chapter and
Speaker 3: verse here is schedule one of the Act, and here
Speaker 3: is the reasons that you don't and I just can't
Speaker 3: see it somehow.
Speaker 12: No, No, it's just that I was confused. You know,
Speaker 12: I'm not the professional here.
Speaker 3: And I tell you what the other thing. And it
Speaker 3: was a comment from Robert, our first caller as well.
Speaker 3: He said, you know, I just want to make sure
Speaker 3: I get everything done well because I don't want counsel
Speaker 3: to come and inspect it later on. The chances of
Speaker 3: council coming and looking at it very very small. But
Speaker 3: what I've found doing sort of pre purchase inspections for
Speaker 3: people is that often it's the insurer and the bank
Speaker 3: and that that get really really cautious about unconsented work. Right,
Speaker 3: So you know, if you go ahead and do a
Speaker 3: job and you think I don't really need a consent
Speaker 3: so I won't get one, turns out you did need one,
Speaker 3: and then you put the house on the market. Later on,
Speaker 3: someone doing their due diligence on the property may identify
Speaker 3: the fact that that work actually did require a consent.
Speaker 3: Then you don't have one. Then trying to get a
Speaker 3: CoA certificate of acceptance. It's a lot of work. The
Speaker 3: burden of proof now on coas is almost as high
Speaker 3: as a building consent. You are better off just getting
Speaker 3: the building consent. And again this kind of circles back
Speaker 3: to my point, which is maybe we need to look
Speaker 3: at how we do the building consent process to take
Speaker 3: to de risk it from a council point of view
Speaker 3: that allows it to be you know, yours is the
Speaker 3: classic example.
Speaker 10: Right.
Speaker 3: You could go to a designer who's registered. They're an
Speaker 3: LBP obviously and they've got a design license. You're going
Speaker 3: to work with a contractor who's also a licensed building
Speaker 3: practition Your designer should have insurance for their work. Your
Speaker 3: builder should ideally have insurance for their work, although it's
Speaker 3: not mandatory. And you could go ahead and submit to
Speaker 3: counsel a set of plans, essentially saying this is what
Speaker 3: I intend to do, and then go ahead and build it.
Speaker 3: And then if there's a problem with it because you've
Speaker 3: got insurance, and someone says in five years time you've
Speaker 3: sold the house and oh, actually i've got a leak
Speaker 3: in the corner. I wonder if it's poor workmanship. Yes
Speaker 3: it is, Oh well, that's okay because that contractor had
Speaker 3: insurance and I'm going to use the insurance to rectify it.
Speaker 3: Counsel don't have anything to do deal with it. That's
Speaker 3: I wonder whether that's kind of where we should be heading.
Speaker 12: That's not going to make you because you can be saying, oh, well,
Speaker 12: you can have like a shed door or an outdoor room.
Speaker 12: You can build it to such and say, and you
Speaker 12: don't need a building permit, and they're.
Speaker 3: Right there, But then see what happens there is then
Speaker 3: there's a whole lot of ifs and butts. Right, so
Speaker 3: it's not attached to the main house, which yours is
Speaker 3: going to be, it's got to be a certain distance
Speaker 3: from the boundary, it's only to be a certain height.
Speaker 3: It's got to be low risk. Now, what you're doing
Speaker 3: is increasing the footprint of your house, albeit underneath an
Speaker 3: existing roof. But you want to make sure that there's
Speaker 3: insulation in the ceiling, there's going to be insulation in
Speaker 3: the walls. You're going to want to make sure that
Speaker 3: the joinery is right, that by you're not inadvertently doing
Speaker 3: something that's going to impact the rest of your house.
Speaker 3: And that's that whole thing about it being connected. If
Speaker 3: it was a ten square me to sleep out in
Speaker 3: the backyard that if it wasn't great, it's low risk.
Speaker 3: Well that's different, but you know, because it's attached to
Speaker 3: the house. I think. So it'd be interesting to again
Speaker 3: to know how you get on if you go back
Speaker 3: to your designer. But I'm pretty sure that work requires
Speaker 3: a building consent. Yeah, lovely to talk. Thank you very
Speaker 3: much and good luck with the process. Take care bother,
Speaker 3: thank you and New Stalks CB will take a short break.
Speaker 3: It is ten minutes away from seven your Newstalks CB.
Speaker 3: If you've got a question, oh eight hundred eighty ten
Speaker 3: eighty is the number to call. Quick response from a
Speaker 3: regular correspondent who I really appreciate his input, actually, Craig morning. Yes,
Speaker 3: draftsman needs to be an LBP for design yep. And
Speaker 3: yes consent needed for the building work and the plumbing.
Speaker 3: So both the building and the plumbing work. This is
Speaker 3: with regard to Christine's discussion about essentially inclosing a return
Speaker 3: VERANDAH on an existing building on an old villa and
Speaker 3: adding an on suite into that space. Some advice was
Speaker 3: that it didn't require a building consent. My feeling is
Speaker 3: it definitely does, and that's backed up by Craig who
Speaker 3: works in this field as well. So really appreciate that
Speaker 3: council says check LBP. Council says that they need to
Speaker 3: check the LBP. So should we be able to check
Speaker 3: the qualifications of the council staff assessing our application? Possibly
Speaker 3: a little bit unkind But what is the industry doing
Speaker 3: about this building consent nonsense? Don't be scared to answer Pete, Well,
Speaker 3: I hear what you're saying. I think we need controls
Speaker 3: right as my opinion, we need controls over what's built.
Speaker 3: We need to protect the safety of people. We also
Speaker 3: need to protect the investment of people. And I think
Speaker 3: we've got a little bit of a short memory when
Speaker 3: it comes to the impact of bad building performance on
Speaker 3: the lives of Joe public basically. And there's still people
Speaker 3: who have had their lives turned upside down, their financial
Speaker 3: lives in particular turned upside down by leaky buildings, seeing
Speaker 3: their largest asset deteriorate in value with no redress, or
Speaker 3: if there is redress. It's incredibly complicated and takes an
Speaker 3: enormously long time when you know something that they thought
Speaker 3: was going to be their biggest asset in their life
Speaker 3: really starts turning to mush around them. So you know,
Speaker 3: think back to that. That's why we have building controls
Speaker 3: in place. But typically the way it works is that
Speaker 3: all of the responsibility for that building ends up being
Speaker 3: primarily on councils because council are, to quote and often
Speaker 3: use phrase, the last man standing. The developer's gone, the
Speaker 3: builder's gone, the contractors are gone, the companies that supplied
Speaker 3: the product might even have gone, and councils the last
Speaker 3: one standing. And people go, well, you gave it a
Speaker 3: building consent, therefore you're responsible for it. So is there
Speaker 3: a better model? Lots of discussion in that area around
Speaker 3: more extensive use of insurance to manage risk in a sense,
Speaker 3: or to ensure not ensure compliance, but to ensure that
Speaker 3: if something goes wrong, someone's going to be there to
Speaker 3: pick up the pieces, and should that be the insurer. Now,
Speaker 3: there'll be a whole lot of criticism about that, and
Speaker 3: it's putting money into the pockets of multinationals blah blah blah,
Speaker 3: but ultimately it may well be a better way forward.
Speaker 3: So we could talk about that in the next hour
Speaker 3: of the show as well. We've got news sport and
Speaker 3: we're the top of the art. Then we'll come back
Speaker 3: with your calls. Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eight.
Speaker 3: You can call us now back after the news.
Speaker 2: Scared today, build.
Speaker 5: The board.
Speaker 3: Your news talks there be welcome back to the show.
Speaker 3: Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call.
Speaker 3: If you've got a question of the building nature. It
Speaker 3: will rip into it. Lots of texts around councils. We'll
Speaker 3: get into those in just a moment. Pete, good morning
Speaker 3: to you.
Speaker 8: Pete.
Speaker 3: How you doing good.
Speaker 13: I've got a Beasily home. They're pretty stocked staying it.
Speaker 13: I'm just thinking about replacing the a bath. It's yeah,
Speaker 13: replacing the barth the basin and to use it. And
Speaker 13: it's got serotin around and now there's no permanent need
Speaker 13: for them, is there?
Speaker 3: Hang on, you're talking about what if you're going to
Speaker 3: rip out the existing serotone that's around a bath? Is
Speaker 3: a shower over the bath that sort of thing? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: and what do you intend to replace it with.
Speaker 9: The same?
Speaker 3: Okay, then no, that's like for like, there's no requirement
Speaker 3: to get a building consent to do any of that work.
Speaker 13: What about if you I'll get a bit older and
Speaker 13: I say I want to get rid of the bar,
Speaker 13: still use the same plumbing that's there and put a
Speaker 13: shower box and just put a vanity in. But just
Speaker 13: basically getting rid of the bar yep, and putting a
Speaker 13: box and if.
Speaker 3: It's a pre formed shower so tray and liner that
Speaker 3: type of thing. You can also do that without this
Speaker 3: without requiring a building consent. Typically waterproof showers as in
Speaker 3: you know, waterproofing with tiles over it. That's what triggers
Speaker 3: a requirement for a building consent. So if you stay
Speaker 3: away from that, you don't need a building consent.
Speaker 13: That's what it was. Basically the bath plumy be the
Speaker 13: same one am now. So basically the play is a
Speaker 13: big costs on doing plumbing side just going to leave
Speaker 13: all the plumbing the same.
Speaker 3: And to be fair, I did a project like that
Speaker 3: back in twenty twenty, checked all the REGs and absolutely
Speaker 3: I didn't change the footprint. I didn't change the number
Speaker 3: of fittings inside the bathroom. I simply removed like yours.
Speaker 3: It was a nineteen sixties property. I pulled out the
Speaker 3: bath and where the existing plumbing was that's where I
Speaker 3: put in a preform shower, so you know, PVC or
Speaker 3: whatever it is, fiberglass tray and liner and kit set
Speaker 3: doors into the same position. Replaced the toilet, but again
Speaker 3: it already had a sanitary fitting right there. Didn't change
Speaker 3: any of the actual waste pipe, and changed the vanity,
Speaker 3: but the vanity went in pretty much the same position
Speaker 3: as the old one. So none of that requires a
Speaker 3: building consent. Keep records of it because people like to
Speaker 3: see what you did. So you know, if you get
Speaker 3: something from the plumber to say, hey, look I've done
Speaker 3: the work and I certify it. You get something maybe
Speaker 3: from the builder who does the work just saying look
Speaker 3: I've done it in accordance with the code. And then
Speaker 3: if you sell the house later on, someone goes, oh,
Speaker 3: well that's not the original bathroom. Is it done properly?
Speaker 3: You've got a little bit of documentation that says it's
Speaker 3: done correctly. Absolutely, yep, exactly that. Go for it, and
Speaker 3: make sure you add extraction, decent extraction into the Yeah. Excellent,
Speaker 3: all right, all the best, Thanks Pete, Take care Leicester.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about consents.
Speaker 11: Yeah, hey, I haven't see you for a couple of weeks.
Speaker 1: But the.
Speaker 11: Yeah, just taking that process through, and particularly with the
Speaker 11: insurance idea, So you can't insure against the criminal way sure,
Speaker 11: look of the plane. Okay, so who's going to take
Speaker 11: out the insurance? Is the are going to take out
Speaker 11: insurance to get against doing bad work, or as the
Speaker 11: homelownder going to take out insurance against getting a bad builder.
Speaker 3: I think it's got to be the builder has to
Speaker 3: have public liability insurance. Public liability the version of public
Speaker 3: liability that covers the work that they do for let's
Speaker 3: say a period of ten years to them at least.
Speaker 11: Okay, then you've got continuum of insurance, which means they
Speaker 11: can insurance. Now well, actually I'm going to think it
Speaker 11: would more cover under professional indemnity or bad advice.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 11: Right, So if they do, there's no continuum of insurance.
Speaker 11: If that builder closes down this business and therefore the
Speaker 11: insurance lapses anyway.
Speaker 3: No, there's there's a again, there's not a way around that.
Speaker 3: That's the wrong phrase. So I was talking with someone
Speaker 3: the other day, actually, who's a building survey, right, and
Speaker 3: so as a professional building survey you have to have insurance, right,
Speaker 3: professional insurance and when you return higher. The type of
Speaker 3: policy that you buy is one that will you have
Speaker 3: to continue to pay for that policy for ten years
Speaker 3: after the point of time that you retire. And you
Speaker 3: could do exactly the same with someone who's a licensed
Speaker 3: building practitioner like myself. Now, theoretically in ten years, I'm
Speaker 3: able to get the super right. So if I was
Speaker 3: doing a project today and in seven years time, when
Speaker 3: I reached that age, I've still got three years of
Speaker 3: responsibility for that project. I would buy insurance that has
Speaker 3: a continuity of care of insurance. That means that if
Speaker 3: there was an event after the time that I'd stopped
Speaker 3: working and been licensed as an LBP, there would still
Speaker 3: be insurance cover for the work that I'd done.
Speaker 11: How do I, as a QUS to calculate ten years
Speaker 11: of insurance companies of insurance.
Speaker 3: Well, the insurance company will do that.
Speaker 11: So it's ten years per that house or ten years
Speaker 11: over my business and fault. You see, It's it's a
Speaker 11: difficult one.
Speaker 3: I'm not suggesting that it's you know, I guess what
Speaker 3: we're faced with is a situation where almost everyone and
Speaker 3: I'm really cautious around bagging council right, and I'm very
Speaker 3: aware that there is an enormous amount of complexity around
Speaker 3: public safety and liability and ensuring that we have good
Speaker 3: controls over building. But I think that you have to
Speaker 3: be wilfully naive to say that we have not tied
Speaker 3: ourselves up in knots with the building consent process at
Speaker 3: the moment where it has become so complex, so onerous,
Speaker 3: that people are looking for ways to get around it. Right,
Speaker 3: And so all of this discussion around in some cases
Speaker 3: housing affordability and what you can do without necessarily requiring
Speaker 3: a consent, speeding up the consent process seem that the
Speaker 3: roadblock to all of that seems to be that joined
Speaker 3: in several liability where councils are going to be held responsible. Now,
Speaker 3: if we can free them up from that responsibility by
Speaker 3: substituting it with another form of responsibility eye insurances, then
Speaker 3: isn't that a process that we should look at.
Speaker 11: Okay, I want to raise that one topic, but I yet,
Speaker 11: for many years I've griped about the industry around this topic,
Speaker 11: particularly the involvement, and I'm not the last or first.
Speaker 11: I can remember, going back two decades ago as the
Speaker 11: guy Fox that used to be always in the Certified
Speaker 11: Buildings magazine Wellington and I rustle out in New Ployment.
Speaker 11: I commented about this for years and when I looked
Speaker 11: into it, to me, the industry needs to change the
Speaker 11: model completely, and the two I found it were the
Speaker 11: best with the American model most not every state and
Speaker 11: the Dutch model. And essentially they run charter building contracts.
Speaker 11: So chart building concept. It means that you can only
Speaker 11: do works that peers in the industry are the builders
Speaker 11: recognize you capable of that. The consents can only be
Speaker 11: gathered by a builder. As it stands at the moment,
Speaker 11: your teenage daughter could apply for a consent and get it.
Speaker 11: Architects are continue You're getting consent works that they draw
Speaker 11: that are aren't buildable or affordable, and we have a
Speaker 11: broken indus and excessive costs. I'll tell you my figure
Speaker 11: for free quoting is about fifteen percent of the industry
Speaker 11: revolves around free quoting, and I would say at least
Speaker 11: twelve percent of that is inefficient. In other words, we're
Speaker 11: losing twelve percent or twelve percent of the cost of
Speaker 11: building revolves around the notion of free quoting. So the
Speaker 11: whole thing needs to be looked at. It's broken. I
Speaker 11: don't believe it works at all, and I don't even
Speaker 11: think taking counsel out of the process is going to
Speaker 11: fix it. I think we need a completely new way
Speaker 11: of doing it in deliveries.
Speaker 3: And I think that when the LBP scheme was introduced,
Speaker 3: that might have been part of the vision that they
Speaker 3: had for it. Right, So the whole thing, you know,
Speaker 3: that that shift from or that that move towards saying
Speaker 3: we have restricted building work which can only be done
Speaker 3: or supervised by an LBP. But what we haven't done
Speaker 3: is then made insurance manditory for lbps. And so if I,
Speaker 3: as an LBP do some building work, yeah, theoretically I'm
Speaker 3: responsible for it, but it's I'm only going to be
Speaker 3: held responsible when it goes through a court case, right,
Speaker 3: and there's some judgment. And in the meantime, you know,
Speaker 3: a client is left with poor workmanship that they have
Speaker 3: to struggle with for years and years and years while
Speaker 3: they go through the legal system to try and get redress.
Speaker 3: Whereas you know, what you're saying is in the Netherlands
Speaker 3: and in the United States. I've got some familiarity through
Speaker 3: a maide of mine who's a lawyer who is works
Speaker 3: in Sweden right now. He's an interesting combination of a
Speaker 3: lawyer and a essentially a property developer, so very familiar
Speaker 3: with the hands on side of building, but also he
Speaker 3: has that legal background. And there the whole thing is
Speaker 3: driven or administered by insurance as well. That's the insurer
Speaker 3: takes the risk for the building. The council has some involvement,
Speaker 3: but more as a record keeper, not as the last
Speaker 3: man standing. So you know, there are there are models,
Speaker 3: because I mean, we're not the only country in the world.
Speaker 3: They're not the only you know, first world country in
Speaker 3: the world that's got building consents and regulations around building controls.
Speaker 3: So there probably is a better model, and I agree
Speaker 3: with you. I think that we do need to find
Speaker 3: a better model that says, you know, and especially in
Speaker 3: this this is where like this whole thing around the
Speaker 3: sixty square meter granny flat thing that might not require
Speaker 3: a building consent. What they're they're really saying. I think
Speaker 3: the crux of that is it is so onerous, so
Speaker 3: difficult to get a building consent for that type of work.
Speaker 3: We're going to take it away from the building consent
Speaker 3: and allow you to do it with all of these
Speaker 3: other rules and regulations in place, whereas if there was
Speaker 3: a much more straightforward way of getting consent for these
Speaker 3: sorts of work, you could still get consent for it.
Speaker 3: But because there's not the enduring liability with the council,
Speaker 3: it'll sit with an insurer that will allow counsel to
Speaker 3: process them a lot quicker because they're not being held
Speaker 3: responsible for it ultimately. And look all a text has
Speaker 3: said and here, look, you know, hey, Pete, I think
Speaker 3: of councils like the police. No one wants to know them,
Speaker 3: but when it suits them, they want them to be
Speaker 3: there and they want their help. Unfortunately, you can't have
Speaker 3: it both ways. I understand that comment absolutely, So I'm
Speaker 3: saying that there has to be a way via It's
Speaker 3: going to be insurance, right, and that's going to be
Speaker 3: putting money into the pockets of multinationals. And people get
Speaker 3: all upset about that and all the rest of it.
Speaker 3: But you know, try and convince me of another way
Speaker 3: and I'll listen to it. Good of you to call
Speaker 3: Lester always a pleasure than say in touch take care
Speaker 3: of Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number
Speaker 3: to call. Take a short break at around seven forty
Speaker 3: five we're going to catch up with Nick Hardy Jones
Speaker 3: from Metro Performance Glass. Lots and lots and lots of
Speaker 3: discussion at the moment around H one about the possibility
Speaker 3: of rolling back H one standards which have only just
Speaker 3: been increased. And obviously, if we're talking about the exterior
Speaker 3: of our building, glazing glass is a big part of that.
Speaker 3: So how do how does glass work with H one?
Speaker 3: We'll have a discussion with Nick Hardy Jones. If you've
Speaker 3: got any specific glazing questions, actually, feel free to flick
Speaker 3: them through and I'll see if we can get to
Speaker 3: those as well if they're relevant. Oh, eight hundred eighty
Speaker 3: ten eighty is the number to call. The couple of
Speaker 3: questions around or no comments really the texts having a
Speaker 3: great time. Actually, gents, with all due respect, we are
Speaker 3: never going to get away with circumventing the council and
Speaker 3: getting a building consent. It's the council process that needs addressing.
Speaker 3: Let's face it, the fact as it could be done
Speaker 3: a whole lot better. They cause a whole lot of
Speaker 3: issues because it's so slow and they're overly pedantic. And
Speaker 3: again I'm not you know, I have some sympathiefic counsel
Speaker 3: as well, in the sense that I think they probably
Speaker 3: end up with a whole lot of building consent applications
Speaker 3: plans landing on their desk that are poorly done, and
Speaker 3: so you know they're sending it back going please explain.
Speaker 3: You haven't included this, You've got no decent evidence for this,
Speaker 3: you haven't proved a compliance pathway. And I suspect that
Speaker 3: a reasonable number of the people that are complaining about
Speaker 3: the building consent process I getting your building consent from
Speaker 3: counsel are complaining without realizing that the quality of what
Speaker 3: they're giving them is rubbish basically, and that's why counsel
Speaker 3: needs to keep asking questions. Flip side to that is
Speaker 3: I am personally aware, as in firstand knowledge of building
Speaker 3: consents that have been submitted where the RFIs have been
Speaker 3: unreasonable and in one case, completely and utterly idiotic. And
Speaker 3: I say that unreservedly, where it just showed an enormous
Speaker 3: lack of knowledge on the part of the person processing
Speaker 3: the building consent application, that they didn't understand some very
Speaker 3: basic elements of either building science or building compliance and
Speaker 3: asked questions about it. I had a response to a
Speaker 3: CCC application at one stage that asked me how I
Speaker 3: had provided ventilation to the subfloor space, and that was
Speaker 3: an RFI to a CCC application. The building had a
Speaker 3: concrete slab. I was very tempted to reply, oldrill some
Speaker 3: holes in the slab and allow airflow, but I thought
Speaker 3: that that would probably be unwise. So, you know, I mean,
Speaker 3: they happen, and people make mistakes, and I get that,
Speaker 3: and they're off and overworked and all the rest of it.
Speaker 3: But it does point to a real some real challenges
Speaker 3: with the building consent process. How does it work if
Speaker 3: the company goes bust before the ten years is up?
Speaker 3: What recall would I have? Is there some insurance, like
Speaker 3: a liability insurance that can respond? Yeah, there are that's
Speaker 3: the thing. You can get insurances that extend beyond the
Speaker 3: life necessarily of the company. There's got to be a solution. Certainly,
Speaker 3: we need to investigate them. Oh eight hundred and eighty
Speaker 3: ten eighty is that number to call? Hello there, Allen,
Speaker 3: Good morning, Good morning. Indeed, is it a good morning
Speaker 3: where you are, because it's pretty damn miserable there to
Speaker 3: be fair?
Speaker 7: Okay, Yeah, well, I think we must have the same
Speaker 7: wead the.
Speaker 3: Format right, at least that's fair and equitable, coequal.
Speaker 7: And what map? Yeah, a question concerning an estimate stroke quote. Yes,
Speaker 7: I'm considering upgrading the heat pump and an established home YEP.
Speaker 7: I visited what I thought was appropriate shop selling such
Speaker 7: things and asked did they have a preferred installer? And
Speaker 7: they've sent me a document with some figures on it,
Speaker 7: and I'm quite happy with the figures, but there's some
Speaker 7: wording in it that I've just needed some clarification. At
Speaker 7: one point on the document they refer to this as
Speaker 7: a quote and they give me a quote number. Further
Speaker 7: on in the document they use the word estimate three times. Yes,
Speaker 7: and they say please pay on the estimate, and this
Speaker 7: estimate is likely to change without notice. Here is an
Speaker 7: omissions accepted, and this estimate is valued, is valid for
Speaker 7: seven days. Now. I'm not terribly familiar with such things,
Speaker 7: but it seems to be that an estimate and a
Speaker 7: quote are two different animals.
Speaker 3: They are, yes, so why are they.
Speaker 7: Using the same word interchangeably?
Speaker 3: Obviously they would have had legal advice and that's how
Speaker 3: they've decided to draw it up. And they'll be covering
Speaker 3: themselves for things like, you know, they obviously haven't been
Speaker 3: out to do a visit to your particular property to
Speaker 3: view it, and maybe they don't have any photographs, and
Speaker 3: so they're making a series of assumptions around. Okay, so
Speaker 3: if we're coming to do a heat pump, we've got
Speaker 3: an outdoor unit, We've got some ducting and some conduit
Speaker 3: that we need to get from the heat pump unit
Speaker 3: to the indoor unit. We need to be able to
Speaker 3: mount that indoor unit on the wall and the right location,
Speaker 3: and we need to find a pathway to connect the two,
Speaker 3: and it's reasonable to assume, let's say that let's say
Speaker 3: the time required to do that is four hours, just
Speaker 3: off the top of my head. Then they get to
Speaker 3: your place and discover, in fact that maybe there's asbestoseness
Speaker 3: of feet. They get to your place and discover that,
Speaker 3: in fact, there's a beam right there, and the pathway
Speaker 3: that they had they can't do, or that the pathway
Speaker 3: that they have to find for the condensake pipe that
Speaker 3: drains from the high wall unit is more challenging and
Speaker 3: has to go further, and perhaps they have to take
Speaker 3: off a couple of roof tiles to get access to it, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
Speaker 3: So they will perhaps price the work assuming that it
Speaker 3: takes four to five hours to install, but if it
Speaker 3: takes eight hours, then you're paying for that eight hours.
Speaker 3: That's where I would have thought. They've got that whole
Speaker 3: changing from quote to estimate. The best way of getting
Speaker 3: around it is to say, look, I would actually like
Speaker 3: to firm up that price. Could someone come visit the
Speaker 3: site and give me a fixed quote for the work?
Speaker 7: So I responded accordingly. I reviewed the estimate YEP, which
Speaker 7: your email refers to as a quote, and I would
Speaker 7: like to meet with the installer on site YEP. That
Speaker 7: invited them to get back to me perfect and I
Speaker 7: hope that that can happen within the seven day period.
Speaker 7: So it sounds like I've done everything right. But it
Speaker 7: just bothered me that they were using this word interchangeably.
Speaker 7: And if I just signed on it, paid on it,
Speaker 7: and sent it back, then I have been committed to
Speaker 7: goodness knows what.
Speaker 3: Yes, but you still do have some protection under the
Speaker 3: Consumer Guarantees Act. So there is a requirement that even
Speaker 3: with an estimate, the estimate, the final value of the
Speaker 3: work cannot exceed And I think it's generally twenty percent
Speaker 3: more than the estimate, so if you know it's And
Speaker 3: what that does is it prevents someone from saying, let's
Speaker 3: say I turn up at your place and I want
Speaker 3: you want to replace the driveway. And I looked and went,
Speaker 3: oh mate, that'll be five grand. And then I get
Speaker 3: diggers in and I box it all up and I
Speaker 3: pull the driveway and da da da da da, and
Speaker 3: I send you a bill for twelve and you go, well,
Speaker 3: hang on, hang on. You said the estimate was fine. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I know, but god it was really expensive, and da
Speaker 3: da da da, and here's my bill for twelve. Or
Speaker 3: you could say, hang on, no, you've got to stay
Speaker 3: within twenty percent of the five grand that you estimated,
Speaker 3: and therefore I'm only paying this amount or we'll go dispute.
Speaker 3: So there are still some other controls around ensuring that
Speaker 3: the work is priced fairly.
Speaker 11: Well.
Speaker 7: A good example is a good example, except the onus
Speaker 7: is on me as the householder, to push back against
Speaker 7: the yes, yes to have the driveway fit it. And
Speaker 7: that just adds another string to the bow.
Speaker 3: As it were, Yeah, I mean it. I suppose what
Speaker 3: it does say those as householders and as people entering
Speaker 3: into contracts, we do need to read them, we do
Speaker 3: need to understand them, and we do reserve the right
Speaker 3: to challenge them in the same way that you know.
Speaker 3: There's been a fair amount of discussion, in fact, I've
Speaker 3: filmed a piece about this the other day, around the
Speaker 3: requirement to have a written contract for building work over
Speaker 3: thirty thousand dollars. Now, typically the responsibility for that in
Speaker 3: law is with the contractor to provide the contract, right,
Speaker 3: so they have to offer that to the client. There's
Speaker 3: no obligation on the part of the client to simply
Speaker 3: accept that contract as it is. They can discuss it,
Speaker 3: they can amend it, they can perhaps go away and
Speaker 3: have their own contract prepared by their lawyer and offer
Speaker 3: that to the contractor. So you know, you can There's
Speaker 3: got a big discussion and a little bit of robust
Speaker 3: debate around these things to ensure that both parties needs
Speaker 3: are met, but it's not weighted in favor of one party,
Speaker 3: which some of these contracts can be. And if I
Speaker 3: was you is good. You know, if I'm in business, right,
Speaker 3: I'm going to protect my interests, right, I want to
Speaker 3: protect and you want to protect yours. That's right. But
Speaker 3: you are in a fortunate position in the sense that
Speaker 3: you have the intellectual ability to understand that work through
Speaker 3: the complexity and make a reasoned response to it. And
Speaker 3: I guess in some cases people are not. But you
Speaker 3: are so good on you.
Speaker 7: Thank you.
Speaker 3: Good of you to call take care all the best
Speaker 3: your news talks. He'd be lots and lots of Texas
Speaker 3: is great, morning, Pete. Can you tell me the difference
Speaker 3: between a quote and an estimate? Okay, this is me
Speaker 3: bush lawyering, and I shouldn't, but I will. So a
Speaker 3: quote is typically a fixed price. So if I've said
Speaker 3: to you, like the driveway, You've asked me to replace
Speaker 3: the driveway, so and you want a quote for that.
Speaker 3: So I'm going to work out for myself. I'm going
Speaker 3: to do my own quantity surveying. I'm going to figure
Speaker 3: out how much is there, how much I have to remove,
Speaker 3: how much that's going to cost me, how many trucks
Speaker 3: I need to use. Then I'm going to figure out
Speaker 3: what it's going to cost me to box it, to
Speaker 3: lay some mesh in it, what type of concrete I'm
Speaker 3: going to put in there, what type of finishes required,
Speaker 3: allow time to strip the boxing. At the end of
Speaker 3: the job, get a concrete cutter in to do the
Speaker 3: expansion joints. All of that, right, all of the work
Speaker 3: involved in that. I'm going to price all of that up,
Speaker 3: and I'm going to give you a fixed price for
Speaker 3: that work. Now, if I'm doing a fixed price because
Speaker 3: it's a quote, then I'm also going to allow a
Speaker 3: reasonable margin to allow for things that I might not
Speaker 3: have accepted or expected, or I'm going to tag those out.
Speaker 3: So if for example, the ground conditions are poor, I
Speaker 3: might say in my quote, I have allowed this to
Speaker 3: do this work, but if it's soft, or if there's
Speaker 3: a requirement, then you're going to pay for that. You
Speaker 3: can add all of that into the quote, but generally
Speaker 3: the quote is a fixed price. An estimate is not
Speaker 3: an estimate. Is I think it will take this much
Speaker 3: and take that amount of time, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 3: But I'm not absolutely sure, and so the estimate is
Speaker 3: a reasonable based on a series of reasonable assumptions, and
Speaker 3: this is what I think it's going to cost. The
Speaker 3: problem with estimates is that often they are underestimated, and
Speaker 3: then the client goes, well, hang on, you said five grand.
Speaker 3: Now you're charging me ten. But there is also now
Speaker 3: requirements and has been for a long time that estimates
Speaker 3: need to be within a reasonable amount of the finished work.
Speaker 3: You can't estimate a job and then it doubles that
Speaker 3: you shouldn't get paid for that basically, so hopefully that's
Speaker 3: the difference between estimates and quotes. But quotes can go
Speaker 3: over as long as you've tagged it. Oh, eight hundred
Speaker 3: and eighty ten eighty is number to call. We'll take
Speaker 3: short break the back with Jeff in just a moment,
Speaker 3: very quick text. Hey Pete, I'm thinking about getting some
Speaker 3: renovations completed. A friend has said that I need a
Speaker 3: drafts person draftsman if I want to put in a
Speaker 3: second toilet and shower. Is that correct? Thanks from Kristen. Yes,
Speaker 3: your friend is well advised. You will need to You'll
Speaker 3: need to submit plans. Plans can only be drawn by
Speaker 3: someone who has an LBP license. Now that might be
Speaker 3: a drafts person, might be an architect. And the reason
Speaker 3: that it's going to require a building consent you said
Speaker 3: you need plans to get a building consent is the
Speaker 3: key phrase in your text is second toilet and shower.
Speaker 3: So you're adding the number of sanitary fittings to the house.
Speaker 3: That triggers requirement for a building consent. So yes, you
Speaker 3: will need to submit plans to counsel in order to
Speaker 3: get a building consent for that work. Jeff, A very
Speaker 3: good morning, not bad, thank you yourself.
Speaker 4: I've got a question about concrete. I've got a large
Speaker 4: square area of co founder level right and in the
Speaker 4: six seasm must have been laid and when they did,
Speaker 4: it was some boxes, you know, box section okay, yeah,
Speaker 4: so and over time that the weeds are growing up
Speaker 4: in between them. Now, yes, So what I've done is
Speaker 4: that I've dug it out and I'm quite happy. I've
Speaker 4: put the quick set concrete rabbit set concrete in there
Speaker 4: and fill that up, and I'm quite happy with that.
Speaker 4: What I worry about, Peter, is thinking about Peter is
Speaker 4: that after a period of time, you know, after water
Speaker 4: blasting and has taken the cement off the top yep.
Speaker 4: So I'm just wondering, can I tidy it up by
Speaker 4: sayce hose it all down and sprinkles ordinary cement on
Speaker 4: it and rubbing and bum would that help?
Speaker 14: When you then not?
Speaker 3: Not really? I think I mean you remember that the
Speaker 3: cement so concrete is basically aggregate, sand and cement, right,
Speaker 3: and those when they activate, becomes concrete. So there is
Speaker 3: cement all the way through your concrete. And all you're
Speaker 3: doing is exposing the surface. And if you want to
Speaker 3: make that a little bit smoother, let's say, no, just
Speaker 3: applying cement, it'll it'll look really patchy, it probably won't stick.
Speaker 3: And I can't think of any any time where I've
Speaker 3: actually done something like that. Just a quick question. When
Speaker 3: you say it's in boxes, is it like was it
Speaker 3: Poorter's pads? And then a gap like one hundred more
Speaker 3: gap in between them.
Speaker 4: When they when they obviously it in sections like box sections,
Speaker 4: Like maybe there's some just because when they take the
Speaker 4: timber out, they're actually they squares and they've done and squares.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, and then right and then you fill those in.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah. I just thought, well, is there a way
Speaker 4: that I could tie it up?
Speaker 3: Look, if you did want to tidy it up, you know,
Speaker 3: and you really wanted to be considerably more attractive than
Speaker 3: it is, I'd actually look at getting someone into do
Speaker 3: like a surface coating on it so you can actually
Speaker 3: get stains that that will give it a much more
Speaker 3: uniform finish, possibly even doing a light grind over it.
Speaker 3: It's a bit unusual, but it's one way of dealing
Speaker 3: with it as well. But no, I wouldn't just go
Speaker 3: around scattering cement on top. I don't. I think it'll
Speaker 3: get a really patchy finish and it probably won't adhere
Speaker 3: particularly well. Yeah, I wouldn't. I wouldn't he.
Speaker 4: Someone in there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you have a look online that you'll find
Speaker 3: some contractors who do concrete resurfacing and ceiling and if
Speaker 3: you wanted a more attractive finish, that's often a good
Speaker 3: way of doing it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, concrete will finish something.
Speaker 3: And someone has text and I agree with them. Water
Speaker 3: blasting concretors and no, no, it destroys the hardest lat Yeah,
Speaker 3: I see. I love water blasting, I really do so.
Speaker 3: I think what it is is going too hard and
Speaker 3: too close. But also, you know, with this sort of thing,
Speaker 3: you're trying to kill an organic material, so why not
Speaker 3: use a treatment and that'll mean that you have to
Speaker 3: do a lot less water blasting. So I'm a big
Speaker 3: fan of various treatments that you can apply that will
Speaker 3: activate and then you're rinsing that off with a water
Speaker 3: blaster and not trying to blast the surface layer off.
Speaker 3: Oh eight, one hundred and eighty ten eighty quick call
Speaker 3: from Mary, and then we're going to talk to Nick
Speaker 3: Cardy Jones about glazing an H one compliance in just
Speaker 3: a moment. Hello, they're Mary.
Speaker 15: Oh yes, good morning, Peter Ash. I've been managering you
Speaker 15: for weeks. Plucked up the carriage this morning about building consents.
Speaker 15: First off, I'm not whining. I believe in rules and
Speaker 15: building rules. You know, they're there for a purpose. In
Speaker 15: my case, I had my husband built a house for
Speaker 15: us twelve years ago and we extended the gabled end
Speaker 15: out just over three and a half meters. It was
Speaker 15: meant to be a nice place to sit in this
Speaker 15: that we got these to them. We stily wins through
Speaker 15: there and I decided that we're going to fill the
Speaker 15: put three walls in there, so no plumbing, no electricity.
Speaker 15: The roof was already there. I ran the council. I
Speaker 15: had an architect droughout the plans so I was getting
Speaker 15: a registered builder to build it for me, so they
Speaker 15: knew exactly what I wanted to do. We swung the
Speaker 15: area was three point six by six meters across and
Speaker 15: it was the cost of the building consense and the
Speaker 15: inspections that I needed. The first quote was for eight
Speaker 15: hundred and twelve dollars, so it's quite a specific case.
Speaker 15: My husband since passed away. But I thought, well, i'd
Speaker 15: you know, I thought on a pension that was quite
Speaker 15: a bit of money. I said, was it going to
Speaker 15: be much much more? And they said, maybe we bit more.
Speaker 15: I got a bill for another two thousand dollars. I
Speaker 15: had seven inspections on three walls. Basically we swung the
Speaker 15: old wall around to you know, to face the west.
Speaker 15: I had two six windows, a four about a three
Speaker 15: meter wall put up to give me a way bit
Speaker 15: of privacy from the road, and just another single door.
Speaker 15: The thing with the cost of building I had seven
Speaker 15: inspections on that. I couldn't believe it. I did complain
Speaker 15: to them why it took so many, because it wasn't
Speaker 15: you know, there wasn't a lot of work that I
Speaker 15: could see. Still took over a month to get the
Speaker 15: consents reviewed. The thing is that the cost of building
Speaker 15: consents very right across New Zealand. That was almost you know,
Speaker 15: it was almost half the cost of building a whole
Speaker 15: house with plumbing, electricity and all the rest. I bent
Speaker 15: back to the council after work was done. We had
Speaker 15: one inspector here that didn't even wait for the border.
Speaker 15: One hundred and sixty nine dollars was for each inspection.
Speaker 15: They've now gone up to over two hundred dollars and
Speaker 15: he was telling me what I had to tell the border.
Speaker 15: So I was absolutely I think it was the unfairness
Speaker 15: of it. They did ask me what I wanted, and
Speaker 15: I thought, well, I can't get my money back, but
Speaker 15: that's actually what I'm wanting. I'm wanting fear costings all
Speaker 15: over New Zealand. Different trades people have spoken since then,
Speaker 15: they said it's a nightmare. I went back. I had
Speaker 15: a meeting with council. They said, the reason they're so
Speaker 15: pidentic is they're concerned about being taken to court. They
Speaker 15: if they don't do it. But surely if you've got
Speaker 15: registered builders, if they have enough insurance company fun to
Speaker 15: insure the most they've got enough complaints against them, so
Speaker 15: that would almost be self regulating. If you haven't got
Speaker 15: a you know, if you haven't got the.
Speaker 3: And I think Mary, you've summarized it perfectly there and
Speaker 3: you've identified exactly you know where some of those challenges are.
Speaker 3: And you know, I'm not pretending that there's simple solutions
Speaker 3: to this, but what you've said there is perfectly succinct
Speaker 3: in the sense that work like that done by a
Speaker 3: license building practitioner with the appropriate insurance sort of removes
Speaker 3: counsel from the liability side of it or all of
Speaker 3: the liability and allows things to be to have controls,
Speaker 3: to have a system in place that will look after
Speaker 3: any faults later on via insurance and could speed the
Speaker 3: process up. And I think that's what we should be
Speaker 3: looking at. I thank you very much for your comments,
Speaker 3: very wise, all the very best. It is seven forty
Speaker 3: six here at used Talk Set B. We've got Nick
Speaker 3: Hardy Jones coming up in just a moment, and it's
Speaker 3: my pleasure to welcome back to the show now a
Speaker 3: regular contributor to Cardi Jones from Metro Performance Glass A
Speaker 3: very good.
Speaker 10: Morning, Good morning, Peter.
Speaker 3: Three things now, lots I've never think I don't think
Speaker 3: I can remember a time where building has been as
Speaker 3: political as it is. Lots of discussion at the moment
Speaker 3: around things like you know, changes to H one, which
Speaker 3: I think is a sector. Everybody you know, knew that
Speaker 3: it was happening, reworked everything, got ourselves ready and now
Speaker 3: suddenly there's possibility it's going to be rolled back. But
Speaker 3: in terms of New Zealand houses, we often love the
Speaker 3: view and so to get the maximum of the view,
Speaker 3: we end up with a lot of glass in our houses.
Speaker 3: So in terms of H one in compliance, how important
Speaker 3: is the glazing selection?
Speaker 8: Now, yeah, it really is important. As you're right, the
Speaker 8: windows are often considered the weakest part of the firmal
Speaker 8: performance of a home, right and so look there the
Speaker 8: whole idea and that H one change was to increase
Speaker 8: the insulation of value and homes to act them more efficient.
Speaker 8: The glass is critically important to that because it makes
Speaker 8: up such a big surface area and so you know,
Speaker 8: using the benefits of technology and low e coating, you
Speaker 8: can really list that several forms of a home and
Speaker 8: retain the light coming into your building.
Speaker 3: So that's a focus where we're looking at our glazing.
Speaker 3: We're looking at heat loss through heat transfer through glazing,
Speaker 3: and so we're saying we want to trap that on
Speaker 3: the inside. And then of course as soon as we
Speaker 3: start focusing on that, then we get stories like the
Speaker 3: one and stuff. A couple of months ago, people moved
Speaker 3: into new townhouses, you know, fully compliant et cetera. Going
Speaker 3: they are overheating. So can we have both? Can we
Speaker 3: what is solar or solar control?
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's a really good point. So the key point
Speaker 8: there is that the insulation doesn't increase the temperature of
Speaker 8: the home. Yes, it essentially insulates the home from the
Speaker 8: temperature from the outside. So the design of it is
Speaker 8: keep keep a moderately temperate condition inside the home. So
Speaker 8: if you don't have high performing double glazing and you
Speaker 8: highly insulate a home, then the solar heat control a
Speaker 8: sole heat coming into the home can cause homes to
Speaker 8: become uncomfortable. But there are simple ways you can achieve
Speaker 8: ways to reduce that. So you can have solar heat
Speaker 8: control in your double glazing, and that will mean that
Speaker 8: in the winter you get the benefits of the low
Speaker 8: e keeping the heating, and then in the summer it
Speaker 8: gives you some control, so you reduce the amount of
Speaker 8: solar heat coming into the home and prevent that overheating effect.
Speaker 3: And if you opt for that, if you add solar
Speaker 3: control to the double glazing, what you in a sense
Speaker 3: for go is passive solar gain in winter, but you
Speaker 3: then don't get it when you don't want it, which
Speaker 3: is in summer time.
Speaker 8: That's okay, Yeah, that's exactly right, and that's what we
Speaker 8: talk about. You know, is there a one piece that
Speaker 8: fits all? I think really when you're thinking that glazing,
Speaker 8: it's really about understanding, you know, whilst the orientation of
Speaker 8: the home, what's the amount of blazing in the home,
Speaker 8: and you know, for example, east and west facing areas
Speaker 8: often actually attract a huge amount of solar heat game
Speaker 8: through a home. So if you've got lots of glazing
Speaker 8: on the northeast and west, and you've got really really
Speaker 8: big windows and maybe some quite raltively small leaves, then
Speaker 8: thinking about solar heat control into your glazing is a
Speaker 8: really really good thing to do.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, In terms of you know, what you can do
Speaker 3: around solar control, is there a variety of options?
Speaker 8: Yeah, there really is. So. Traditionally solar control had been
Speaker 8: achieved by using tinted or reflective glass. Now you can
Speaker 8: still do that, but they do also reduce a lot
Speaker 8: of the light coming into the home. So again with
Speaker 8: modern technology and modern lowise, you can now have a
Speaker 8: huge amount of solar controls. We're talking that you can
Speaker 8: achieve thirty to sixty percent more solar control than a
Speaker 8: standard double glazed unit and still achieve light transmission of
Speaker 8: eighty percent. To put that in some context, a tinted
Speaker 8: glass might reduce your light transmission down to about half
Speaker 8: about fifty percent. So with modern high end double glazing,
Speaker 8: you can achieve the solar control, knock out about thirty
Speaker 8: to sixty percent of that solar heat game, and still
Speaker 8: have a lot of light coming into the home.
Speaker 3: And so I suppose it's that horses for courses, isn't
Speaker 3: it that? You You know, when we're talking about glazing,
Speaker 3: we need to very much focus on what do I
Speaker 3: want it to do here and what you might want
Speaker 3: it to do on thel The south side of a
Speaker 3: house is quite different to the northern side of a house,
Speaker 3: and so there's no reason when we're thinking about, you know,
Speaker 3: exterior glazing, that we change what we've got depending on
Speaker 3: where it is.
Speaker 14: Yeah.
Speaker 8: Absolutely, and I think that, you know, when we're talking
Speaker 8: about retrofitting older homes, taking out single glazing and going
Speaker 8: to double glazing, we often had that conversation you put
Speaker 8: the right glass into the building for acoustics around road
Speaker 8: noise YEP, or managing solar heat control. And I think
Speaker 8: we now need to be having that conversation more with
Speaker 8: new homes, really modeling them to have the right outcomes
Speaker 8: for the occupants.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and let's put to rest this notion that somehow
Speaker 3: insulation in all of its forms, whether it's in wall,
Speaker 3: ceilings or in glazing, does not contribute completely to overheating.
Speaker 10: You know.
Speaker 3: I think it's it's a simplistic sort of view that's
Speaker 3: started to emerge. Oh, we're putting too much insulation into
Speaker 3: our houses. That's why they're overheating. That's not why they're overheating.
Speaker 3: They're overheating because it's poor design or lack of ventilation,
Speaker 3: not good quality insulation.
Speaker 8: It's absolutely career, absolutely.
Speaker 3: Lots of information, and I think it's I think it's
Speaker 3: really important that people start to think about I suppose
Speaker 3: some of the complexity, and often we're scared of complexity
Speaker 3: and it can seem really daunting, but this notion that
Speaker 3: there's not a one size fits all, especially when it
Speaker 3: comes to glazing, that you can and get it to
Speaker 3: do what you need it to do on very very
Speaker 3: specific locations, for specific needs.
Speaker 8: Right, then you don't have to have that compromise.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. If people want to find out more, what's the
Speaker 3: best way of getting in touch.
Speaker 8: It is, want to get in contact with your local
Speaker 8: Metro direut contact Metro Performance Class through the website or
Speaker 8: on the phone.
Speaker 3: Perfect Nick. Always a pleasure talking with you. Thanks for
Speaker 3: the advice, Thanks so much, all best you take care, Bob.
Speaker 3: I think after the break we'll continue with more of
Speaker 3: your calls if you've got a question. Eight hundred and
Speaker 3: eighty ten eighty is the number to call. Lots and
Speaker 3: lots of texts around the building consents and so on,
Speaker 3: and I like, I'm really really reluctant to put the
Speaker 3: boot into council. And I think counsel are in an
Speaker 3: enviewable position where they've been left as being the person responsible,
Speaker 3: the entity responsible for buildings after the contractors have gone
Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera, And so it's not surprising that
Speaker 3: they've taken a low risk approach. So is there a
Speaker 3: way of not de risking it but sharing liability when
Speaker 3: things go wrong? And is insurance the best way to
Speaker 3: do that? Lots and lots of texts on that as well.
Speaker 3: So if you'd like to talk about that, we can
Speaker 3: talk all things building and construction after the break. Remember
Speaker 3: at eight thirty we've also got a decline pass joining
Speaker 3: us and we're jumping into the garden with Rid from
Speaker 3: eight thirty.
Speaker 5: Ay you traction care shoe.
Speaker 3: Your news talks they'd be And just going back a
Speaker 3: little bit the just before the news, we had Nick
Speaker 3: Cardi Jones from Metro Performance class. I mean, it's funny
Speaker 3: how the sort of public discussion. I'm genuinely I'm quite
Speaker 3: intrigued and quite excited about the amount of discourse, let's say,
Speaker 3: discussion in public circles around buildings and building legislation, building performance,
Speaker 3: you know, government regulation, et cetera, et cetera, whether it's
Speaker 3: around the current discussion about sixty square meter buildings potentially
Speaker 3: being able to be built without necessarily requiring a building consent,
Speaker 3: whether it's proposed changes to H one standards, so they
Speaker 3: increased as of November of last year, and then suddenly
Speaker 3: people are saying, oh, it's added too much cost, it's unaffordable,
Speaker 3: we need to roll back H one and so on.
Speaker 3: And then a lot of discussion and comment online and
Speaker 3: in the media around our houses now because we've started
Speaker 3: to insulate them really warmly, really well, they're too hot,
Speaker 3: they're overheating, as if the insulation is to blame for that,
Speaker 3: which is nonsense, and even I think I read it
Speaker 3: out a little while ago a brand's response. So this
Speaker 3: is the Building Research Authority of New Zealand, whose whole
Speaker 3: job it is is to research these things, and they've
Speaker 3: made a very clear statement around saying no, added insulation
Speaker 3: is not the cause of overheating to buildings. So this
Speaker 3: was a story in the paper probably a month or
Speaker 3: two ago, when it will sort of the end of summer,
Speaker 3: people going well, hang on, I've just moved into a
Speaker 3: brand new townhouse and I'm finding that I'm spending an
Speaker 3: enormous amount on energy to run the heat pump to
Speaker 3: cool the house down. The house is too hot. The
Speaker 3: house is too hot because it's probably to be blunt,
Speaker 3: poorly designed, rather than it's got good insulation in it.
Speaker 3: So interesting to discuss that with Nick, but also around
Speaker 3: that complexity about different glazing styles and I think getting
Speaker 3: away from this notion that we've always typically had that
Speaker 3: I mean, back in the day when you had very
Speaker 3: little choice, there was glass right there, was there was
Speaker 3: a single piece of glass and you put it in.
Speaker 3: You might need to put some safety glass in. If
Speaker 3: it was a big window, you might need to do
Speaker 3: a laminate, if it was in a bathroom, et cetera,
Speaker 3: et cetera. But now suddenly there's options for solar control
Speaker 3: around more insulation to keep heat transferred to a minimum,
Speaker 3: keep it inside the house, to prevent it from overheating.
Speaker 3: These ways of doing solar gain. And you might want
Speaker 3: acoustic performance and you can do that in different windows
Speaker 3: all way around the house. So I think we need
Speaker 3: to embrace complexity. We'd like things to be simple, but
Speaker 3: sometimes they're just not. In buildings. This is the dichotomy
Speaker 3: I guess of buildings that I really enjoy as well,
Speaker 3: particularly the discussion about them, is that in a basic sense,
Speaker 3: our buildings are shelter, right, That's what they're there for.
Speaker 3: They're the cave that we had when we were cave people,
Speaker 3: cave men, you know. They're the hut that we might
Speaker 3: have had in the Middle Ages, those sorts of things,
Speaker 3: and so they're still shelter today, but they've become far
Speaker 3: more complex than that as we demand more of them.
Speaker 3: We don't want to spend an enormous amount of energy
Speaker 3: either heating our houses in winter because they're poorly built,
Speaker 3: and all of that heat simply leaks out through the cladding,
Speaker 3: through the walls, through the ceilings, through the floor. So
Speaker 3: as a means of getting energy efficiency, we want to
Speaker 3: make the houses perform better. We want their thermal performance
Speaker 3: to increase, and that's a complicated thing to do. I
Speaker 3: saw a set of building, of set of plans about
Speaker 3: to be submitted for building consent soon, and someone asked
Speaker 3: me just to sort of cast my eye over it,
Speaker 3: and the thing that jumped out at me was that
Speaker 3: the way in which they had put the they'd gone
Speaker 3: for good quality glazing, good chlority joinery, but they hung
Speaker 3: it outboard of the insulation line, so, you know, reducing
Speaker 3: the performance of that simply by a lack of awareness
Speaker 3: around what is best practice today. So that's where what
Speaker 3: looks simple can be complex. And it's complex because they
Speaker 3: are a dynamic situation. Our buildings are dynamic and we
Speaker 3: need to understand how they perform in order to get
Speaker 3: the best out of them. So it's that great dichotomy.
Speaker 3: They're simple at shelter, but they're not because they're comple
Speaker 3: structures and complex environments with any number of competing forces
Speaker 3: that we need to be able to manage and control
Speaker 3: to get the best out of the buildings that we
Speaker 3: live in. I eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the
Speaker 3: number to call if you've got a comment that you'd
Speaker 3: like to make on anything building. I eight hundred eighty
Speaker 3: ten eighty is the number to call. Actually, someone's oh,
Speaker 3: I'm just going to grab this text before we earlier.
Speaker 3: Calling wanting to upgrade their bathroom and place the bath
Speaker 3: with a shower cup. Won't necessarily have to install ventilation
Speaker 3: if they cover the top of the cube. Call with
Speaker 3: a dome, install ventilation. Just put decent ventilation in our
Speaker 3: My new ventilation expert Storm is going to join us.
Speaker 3: I've got to set that up sometime the next couple
Speaker 3: of weeks, so we'll talk all things ventilation. A deep
Speaker 3: dive into ventilation coming up on the show in the
Speaker 3: couple of weeks. I eight hundred eighty ten eighty the
Speaker 3: number to call. Aaron, Good morning to you. Sure see
Speaker 3: how we gotta I'm well, thank you and yourself.
Speaker 10: I'm not not too bad on this wet, rainy day.
Speaker 3: For it's pretty miserable.
Speaker 10: But you know, we just we just get on and
Speaker 10: do stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I'd sucked myself into this notion that somehow,
Speaker 3: you know, winter had passed us by, and that I
Speaker 3: could see fresh shoots on the plum tree and all
Speaker 3: the rest of it, Oh goodie, summers on the way.
Speaker 3: And then I was in the shed yesterday. I think
Speaker 3: this is miserable. Yeah, that's not what we're talking about.
Speaker 3: What's up?
Speaker 10: No, listen, I've yeah, we've got a family beach house
Speaker 10: over and Caramelo cook speech and being a sleep out
Speaker 10: at the back like an apartment right now. Got pretty
Speaker 10: month in the in the in the storms talking about
Speaker 10: storms and slattered and things like that, and basically everything
Speaker 10: got paid out and all good. So bringing a builder me.
Speaker 10: I got four brothers. We're all going to go and
Speaker 10: get my hand. Get a little dunker's dad sort of
Speaker 10: early eighties. He's determined to do it, but he's too
Speaker 10: old to do it anyway. I got a younger brother
Speaker 10: who's embarrassed and he always likes an argument and an easygoing.
Speaker 10: All fellas I think need some content to this and
Speaker 10: that and blah blah blah. Basically we're just replacing like
Speaker 10: to like you know, just pulling the jib off, replacing
Speaker 10: that plastom, painting, piling, new shower and new vanity. Nothing
Speaker 10: more than that. And is there anything that I need
Speaker 10: to get a PCBC, a goo? Can we do we
Speaker 10: need to do anything?
Speaker 3: I think your your barrister mate is wise, I brother,
Speaker 3: even wiser than.
Speaker 14: Is that.
Speaker 3: You're probably on a really fine line. Right. So, for example,
Speaker 3: if you were to remove that wall lining on an
Speaker 3: exterior wall and then you go, hey, this is a
Speaker 3: perfect opportunity to add some insulation that triggers requirement for
Speaker 3: building consent. If you were just to take the wall
Speaker 3: lining off and replace it and not add insulation, which
Speaker 3: would be foolish because it's perfect opportunity, then you could
Speaker 3: say I don't need I can do that under schedule
Speaker 3: one of the acts. So yes, there.
Speaker 10: Are things that apartment at the back's only about five
Speaker 10: years old anyway, as well boathouse that go turn it's sintilated.
Speaker 10: So it's all like to like really yep.
Speaker 3: And I think where people sort of stretch the it's
Speaker 3: maintenance thing too. It's actually a whole new build. So
Speaker 3: for example, if you were to remove a section of cladding,
Speaker 3: you can quantify that as maintenance. If you were to
Speaker 3: replace all of the exterior cladding, then that would trigger
Speaker 3: a requirement for a building consent. So I think if
Speaker 3: if what you're doing is literally like for like, then
Speaker 3: I think you're probably on reasonably safe grounds. The other
Speaker 3: thing that's really really important, and I kind of realize
Speaker 3: that I'm repeating myself. Often even work that is done
Speaker 3: that doesn't necessarily require a building consent must be done
Speaker 3: to the building code. So for example, if you were
Speaker 3: swapping out a window, then the way that it's installed,
Speaker 3: the way the performance expectations have to be up to
Speaker 3: building code.
Speaker 10: If you just keep that safe and sanitaries.
Speaker 3: Or no safe and stantaries. No, but they do. There
Speaker 3: is a certificate of acceptance, so a CoA, But the
Speaker 3: burden of proof to obtain that is almost as high
Speaker 3: as a building consent now. So and the reason for
Speaker 3: that is counsels. Basically, you've got sick of people doing
Speaker 3: work knowing that they should have got a building consent
Speaker 3: then kind of going oop, sorry, sorry, silly me, Can
Speaker 3: I have one of those coas please? And they go, oh, actually,
Speaker 3: you've got to prove that it's compliant and that's that's
Speaker 3: quite a process.
Speaker 10: Well, I look forward to going back to my young
Speaker 10: embarraster brother and telling him he's wrong because people.
Speaker 3: Well, yes, steady on be sued, but I suspect he
Speaker 3: is wise but maybe overly cautious. Good luck all this,
Speaker 3: take care. Well, then your news talks se'd be if
Speaker 3: I'm not here next week because I've been sued by
Speaker 3: embarrass you'll understand why. Oh eight one hundred and eighty
Speaker 3: ten eighty is that number to call? Lots of questions
Speaker 3: about conced It's lots of text about it. New shower
Speaker 3: with waterproofing? Does this need building consent? Yes? I believe
Speaker 3: it does. So if you're doing a tile shower with
Speaker 3: a waterproof lining underneath it, like a whether it's a
Speaker 3: peel and stick or a brush on application, if it's
Speaker 3: a waterproof system that you're installing, yes, that triggers a
Speaker 3: requirement for a building consent, even if it's not necessarily
Speaker 3: level entry. So even if you've got if you're not
Speaker 3: changing the floor, you're building it up and you're putting
Speaker 3: a hob or a plinth around the edge, that still
Speaker 3: triggers the requirement for a building consent. As I understand it. Oh,
Speaker 3: eight hundred and eighty ten eighty, we need to take
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Speaker 3: all one day. I use the song as a way
Speaker 3: of introducing people that I might have worked with or
Speaker 3: encountered during the week that have been outstanding. And I
Speaker 3: use it today really to mark the passing of a
Speaker 3: guy that I've had the pleasure in the honor of
Speaker 3: working with for the last gosh since about two thousand twelve.
Speaker 3: I first met Clinton Jones, who worked as at Green Gorilla,
Speaker 3: and when you if you ran Clint and you didn't
Speaker 3: get him, and you got his answer phone message, it
Speaker 3: was warm and welcoming and he said, look, I'm probably
Speaker 3: busy out saving the planet, and that was exactly what
Speaker 3: he did, and he bought a tremendous passion to his work.
Speaker 3: He was just a fantastic guy and I'm deeply saddened
Speaker 3: by his passing. So my condolences to his family and
Speaker 3: to his kids, and to those people that he worked
Speaker 3: with and whose lives he touched. He was a remarkable,
Speaker 3: remarkable man, gone too soon. So Clinton Jones, thanks for
Speaker 3: the company and your friendship. It's been an absolute pleasure.
Speaker 3: Your news talks there be and we are talking all
Speaker 3: things building and construction as well. Ross Greetings, Yeah, good morning.
Speaker 14: This is just a comment that it's not a criticism,
Speaker 14: but it is it's a puzzle down there open us
Speaker 14: in our street, there's the house that's being built, and
Speaker 14: I'm just blown away is the amount of timber and
Speaker 14: overkill that has had to go into the construction of
Speaker 14: that house. And it's no wonder that the cost of
Speaker 14: construction at the homes in New Zealand is so staggeringly expensive.
Speaker 14: I was in Canada in another life, and their cost,
Speaker 14: their construction method. And we're not talking about leaky holmes here.
Speaker 14: These were fully houses that had bullys and everything else
Speaker 14: and properly done. There was no These were not plaster homes.
Speaker 14: But what they did there. All the timber was kiln dried.
Speaker 14: The studs came in a packet. I think they were
Speaker 14: ninety four and a half inches and the stud placement
Speaker 14: were about fifteen inches and you'll have to forgive me
Speaker 14: for inches sixt inches.
Speaker 3: I know exactly what you mean.
Speaker 14: Yep. And on top of that there went a sheet
Speaker 14: of ply and on the top of it and they
Speaker 14: were framed up that the trusses came on the back
Speaker 14: of the truck with a high ad and they were
Speaker 14: put on. And it used to take us about three
Speaker 14: weeks or a month to frame up a three bedroom
Speaker 14: house from the from the pouring the form foundation, and
Speaker 14: on the outside of the house, on top of the
Speaker 14: plywood would then go the shrink wrap or the wrap,
Speaker 14: and on top of that would go the weather boards
Speaker 14: sid siding where we were siding, and then the house
Speaker 14: was shut up the inside. The heating was installed and
Speaker 14: they had to get the moisture content down to something
Speaker 14: like seven percent and that would take possibly two or
Speaker 14: three weeks. And after that on the inside would then
Speaker 14: go the jib board and the class or the wiring
Speaker 14: for that, and the jib board and so forth. And
Speaker 14: they didn't have nogs.
Speaker 10: They did.
Speaker 14: This house down the road here has got strapping on
Speaker 14: every stud all the way down to the joists. The
Speaker 14: amount of nogging and the amount of extra timber and
Speaker 14: the metal strappings that's inside this house is just absolutely staggering.
Speaker 3: I'm guessing that it's probably three stories.
Speaker 14: No, it's a full basement, a flat roof and a
Speaker 14: single story. And they've had this has been this house
Speaker 14: has taken about four or five months so far, and
Speaker 14: they're not even to the stage where they've got the
Speaker 14: siding of the weather boards or anything on the outside.
Speaker 14: And no wonder the cost of house construction is and
Speaker 14: they've had five guys on there just blows me away.
Speaker 3: I'm beginning to get the impression that you know, it's
Speaker 3: it's I think what we're starting to see in the
Speaker 3: housing sector is a real split between I guess what
Speaker 3: i'd call bespoke builds. Right, So a client goes to
Speaker 3: an architect, gets a one off design done with all
Speaker 3: specific engineering, and then finds a contractor to build that.
Speaker 3: And that sounds like the sort of house that you're built,
Speaker 3: that you're seeing being built. And then the other end
Speaker 3: of the spectrum, let's say, and this isn't a value judgment,
Speaker 3: is houses that are you know, less complex, are designed
Speaker 3: to be built in a more affordable manner. You know,
Speaker 3: I mean you I've done them where we'll get you know,
Speaker 3: from slab, we'll get trusses, we'll get frames up, trustes
Speaker 3: on and be ready for roofing six seven days later. Right,
Speaker 3: So you know, we shouldn't confuse the typer house and
Speaker 3: assume that not all houses are the same. Right to
Speaker 3: be to be blunt. So I think you're right. I
Speaker 3: think we're seeing I think what we're going to see
Speaker 3: is a lot less of that highly complex bespoke building,
Speaker 3: and it's only going to be a small part of
Speaker 3: the construction sector and we will see much more around ideally,
Speaker 3: you know, well developed building methodology that allow full speed
Speaker 3: and efficiency.
Speaker 14: Yeah. Well, these homes in Canada, we're middle of the road.
Speaker 14: They were not home, they were not high in there,
Speaker 14: and there was explained to me that you only need
Speaker 14: you don't need nogs in the house when you applywood
Speaker 14: because it holds it all.
Speaker 3: To be fair, I was looking at a system the
Speaker 3: other day where they're building not using nogs because they're
Speaker 3: using LVL. They're using jframe, right, which is the J
Speaker 3: and L product, So it's an LVL. It's dimensionally stable,
Speaker 3: it's really stiff, and you can leave out the nogs
Speaker 3: if you don't need them. And in some cases we
Speaker 3: need them for exterior lining or whatever, but in many
Speaker 3: cases you can do without them. It means you can
Speaker 3: get more insulation. And you know, so we are starting
Speaker 3: to see that those ideas coming in, maybe just not
Speaker 3: quite as quick as we were hoping.
Speaker 14: Yeah, because there's no way that you under the present system,
Speaker 14: there's no way did you ever again to take the
Speaker 14: cost of construct cost of the cost of materials, or
Speaker 14: the cost of a house out of with the present system,
Speaker 14: it just doesn't look because you've got the labor at
Speaker 14: fifty sixty seventy pucks an hour, so the cost of
Speaker 14: putting those nogs in it's colossal and necessary. I have
Speaker 14: to say no.
Speaker 3: But you know, again, I think what you're describing is,
Speaker 3: you know, one of those sort of I say architecturally
Speaker 3: designed asn't that's not a derogative term, and it can
Speaker 3: seem like it is, you know, a bespoke house designed
Speaker 3: and built specifically for that client wanting to achieve a
Speaker 3: certain look or a certain performance or whatever, and that's
Speaker 3: how they're doing it. It's not. It's no longer representative
Speaker 3: of how we build most houses in New Zealand. Saying that,
Speaker 3: you know, one of the challenges we've got around insulation
Speaker 3: is that we're finding through surveys that as much as
Speaker 3: forty five percent up to forty five percent of our
Speaker 3: exterior walls is timber framing now, which doesn't leave a
Speaker 3: lot of space for insulation. So now we've got to
Speaker 3: think about better solutions for insulation. Yeah, are we excessively
Speaker 3: braced and all the rest of it, I'm not sure
Speaker 3: what the answer is there, and I think what you
Speaker 3: bring to the table, Ross is that you know, we're
Speaker 3: not the only people in the world building ours is right,
Speaker 3: and so we tend to get this thing that somehow
Speaker 3: what we do here is completely unique to us, and
Speaker 3: it's just not right. There are lots of things that
Speaker 3: we can learn from overseas. Hopefully we just bring back
Speaker 3: the good ideas and leave the daft ones behind. But
Speaker 3: you know, we need to look overseas. We need to
Speaker 3: look at what they're doing to create efficiencies while not
Speaker 3: giving up on quality and performance. We're going to jump
Speaker 3: into the garden with Red Klein passed in just a moment.
Speaker 3: I just want to read this text from Paul morning.
Speaker 3: Pete couldn't agree more. Clint was a brilliant team guy
Speaker 3: who was years ahead and is thinking of how to
Speaker 3: deal with construction waste and improve the environment. We'll remember
Speaker 3: him from Paul. You're absolutely right, Paul, thanks for texting that.
Speaker 3: Clint Jones rest in peace. We are back after the
Speaker 3: break and we will talking to root climb.
Speaker 1: Past For more from the Resident Builder with Peter Wolfcamp.
Speaker 1: Listen live to News Talk z' B on Sunday mornings
Speaker 1: from six or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio,