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Speaker 1: You've got the annual Beef and Lamb stock number survey.

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Speaker 1: This is for the year ending June. A lot of

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Speaker 1: debate and interest these days, as we were talking about

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Speaker 1: just yesterday on the program, stock numbers, export opportunities. Sheep

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Speaker 1: numbers fell one percent, cattle up four point four it's

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Speaker 1: the old tree v Animal debate. Of course. Kate Eckland

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Speaker 1: is the Beef and Lamb New Zealand chair and is back.

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Speaker 1: What there's Kate morning to you the sheep side. But

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Speaker 1: one percent is that either here there is that deliberate

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Speaker 1: or just you know how nature, you know plays it look.

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Speaker 2: To be honest to me, it's more than we were expecting.

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Speaker 2: And I think what we've seen as one of those

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Speaker 2: drought stricken areas from last year, you know, the top

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Speaker 2: of the North Island, top of the South Island was

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Speaker 2: particularly barely accepted by drought. So we've seen a bit

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Speaker 2: of a rebuild in those areas because numbers are really strong.

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Speaker 2: But you know, worryingly, the breeding new numbers are down

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Speaker 2: by almost two percent, and that's on top of some

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Speaker 2: really chunky declines over the last few years.

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Speaker 1: So what's driving that is that the economy is it exports.

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Speaker 1: Is it trees? What is it?

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Speaker 2: It's absolutely trees. So it continued forestation in some of

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Speaker 2: those big traditional sheep areas like Southland and like sort

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Speaker 2: of Lower North Island has really driven move out of sheep.

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Speaker 2: And it's a real problem because sheep prices are phenomenally

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Speaker 2: good at the moment, and I think if we didn't

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Speaker 2: see that pressure from carbon forestry, we would be seeing

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Speaker 2: a much stronger rebuild.

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Speaker 1: Right, So, how then do you explain the increase in

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Speaker 1: cattle at four point four of trees are the problem?

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Speaker 2: Well, some of the areas, particularly east coast of the

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Speaker 2: North Island that were really weather affected, had some very

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Speaker 2: very chunky drops in the last couple of years, you know,

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Speaker 2: up with the ten descent. So it's just that rebuild

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Speaker 2: that we were talking about, which is a really positive

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Speaker 2: thing for the sector. So you know, on the whole,

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Speaker 2: it's a mixed bag, not terrible, but not entirely positive,

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Speaker 2: particularly on the sheep side.

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Speaker 1: Pleased to hear what you said about sheep because beef

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Speaker 1: gets all the headlines at the moment with burgers in

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Speaker 1: America and all that sort of things. So lamb is

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Speaker 1: still good.

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Speaker 2: Lamb is really good. The moment, but you know, acknowledge

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Speaker 2: it's been a challenging couple of years in the sheep game.

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Speaker 2: But at the moment, and you know, the outlook for

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Speaker 2: the next year or two is really good.

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Speaker 1: And also dairy gets the headlines obviously a lot these days.

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Speaker 1: If you're a beef farmer or a sheep farmer, are

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Speaker 1: you as bullish as the dairy operator.

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Speaker 2: Look, things are pretty positive at the moment, yep. And

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Speaker 2: I think most of New Zealand is not just a

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Speaker 2: beef farmer or a sheep farmer. The two go really

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Speaker 2: well together. So you know, beef stales get the international headlines,

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Speaker 2: but sheep is right up there with it.

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Speaker 1: See, we had fit farmers on there yesterday. And I

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Speaker 1: can't work it out if I own a farm and

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Speaker 1: somebody offers me money for that land and they're going

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Speaker 1: to plant some trees versus do some sheep. You know,

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Speaker 1: who is anybody to tell me what to do with

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Speaker 1: my place?

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Speaker 2: No? I mean it is a real challenge property rights.

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Speaker 2: But we need to think about the long term what

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Speaker 2: we want and what's best for New Zealand. And what's

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Speaker 2: happening at the moment is easy use settings are just

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Speaker 2: driving this sort of incentives to plant trees, but it's

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Speaker 2: not actually a great outcome for New Zealand.

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Speaker 1: No, your view of what the government is doing is

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Speaker 1: what in the ets space.

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Speaker 2: So the changes they've come up with, you know, we

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Speaker 2: support the intent of what they're trying to do, which

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Speaker 2: is to put some limits around carbon farming, but we

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Speaker 2: don't think it's going to go far enough. Unfortunately, we

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Speaker 2: think we'll still continue to see up to a million

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Speaker 2: hectares plants of good sheep and beef land by twenty fifty.

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Speaker 1: Are they hearing you, do you think? Or are they

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Speaker 1: settled in their view?

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Speaker 2: Look, we're trying to continue to engage, but at this

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Speaker 2: point I think they do seem fairly fixed that what

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Speaker 2: they've proposed for solve problem. And you know, look to

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Speaker 2: be very clear, this is not about forestry. Forestry is

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Speaker 2: a really important exporter in a for New Zealand, but

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Speaker 2: carbon forestry different recepts. Absolutely, So we can't double exports

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Speaker 2: if we plan't do all of our good sheep and

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Speaker 2: beef far land and trees.

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Speaker 1: All Right, it's a fascinating debat. Okay, I appreciate Ekla Kateklan,

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Speaker 1: who's the beef in Lamb, New Zealand.

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