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Speaker 1: On the huddle with me this evening we have Gareth Hughes,

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Speaker 1: director of the Well Being Economy Alliance ALTIRO, and former

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Speaker 1: Green MP and Fullo Riley Iron Duke partners Hire. You too, Garet,

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Speaker 1: Well a filter answer your question on very well. Thank you, Gareth.

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Speaker 1: How do you feel about that display?

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Speaker 2: Well, the only Nazi flag I want to see in

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Speaker 2: a museum is one captured by New Zealand troops as

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Speaker 2: part of our mission to stamp out Nazism. Look, I

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Speaker 2: love history, I'm a peace neck, but I also loved

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Speaker 2: visiting military museums when I'm around the world, and a

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Speaker 2: couple of years ago I accently visited the Military Museum

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Speaker 2: by Yasukuni Shrine and Tokyo, and I was walking around

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Speaker 2: and had this really odd feeling that something was off

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Speaker 2: there because in this museum you kind of felt out

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Speaker 2: that Japan was the total victim and it was innocent

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Speaker 2: in World War Two. And I think walking around this

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Speaker 2: museum in Geraldine you might get the same vibes. I

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Speaker 2: don't know why people want to dress up like the

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Speaker 2: bad guys, the waften ss, and we shouldn't be glorifying

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Speaker 2: the stuff. Sure show it that provide the context.

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Speaker 3: I agree with that. I've been in many museums around

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Speaker 3: the world where German military equipment or uniforms are displayed

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Speaker 3: and that durally not the WAFF and it says to

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Speaker 3: be fair, but you know, it's explained that this is

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Speaker 3: what they were trying to do and here's what was

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Speaker 3: going on. And so I think if you're going to

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Speaker 3: do it in a place by Jording, you definitely they

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Speaker 3: want the Nazi flags and god knows what which you

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Speaker 3: would all that sort of symbolism. If you are going

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Speaker 3: to do it, have a uniform there or something and

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Speaker 3: explain the evil characters that these guys were. But they

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Speaker 3: shouldn't be doing it anyway, mate. They should. They should.

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Speaker 3: This is Jordan. They should stop doing that and move on.

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Speaker 3: And I just think it's pretty tasteless stuff, all right now.

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Speaker 1: Gareth, how do you feel about Eric to stan for

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Speaker 1: taking the treaty obligations out of the education legislation.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm really surprised because I thought the government was

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Speaker 2: laser focused on costs of living, but it seems to

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Speaker 2: be they're focusing on things like this, and you know,

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Speaker 2: it's strange in the middle of the massive curriculum review

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Speaker 2: that lots of teachers and parents are complaining about the

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Speaker 2: process and the terrible proposals. I don't know why she's

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Speaker 2: picking another fight. And she's got the school Board Association, Principals, Federation,

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Speaker 2: Teachers Union, Educational Institute all coming out immediately saying they're

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Speaker 2: pretty shocked.

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Speaker 1: And when I live on two different planets, do you

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Speaker 1: think do you think most parents support the unions over

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Speaker 1: Erica Stanford?

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Speaker 2: Well, no, it's not just the unions, it's a school

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Speaker 2: board association. There's are parents, you know, volunteering their time

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Speaker 2: for their side.

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Speaker 1: Which side of the No, No, I'm not, I'm not

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Speaker 1: trying to be smart to you, Gareth. Which side do

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Speaker 1: you reckonparents are on? Genuinely?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think there's probably, if I'm honest, a bit

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Speaker 2: of a generational shift and what I'm seeing, And you know,

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Speaker 2: I was part of that largest protests in our country's history,

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Speaker 2: where what one hundred thousand people came out in the

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Speaker 2: streets to support TTVD, reflecting a much much wider population. Look,

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Speaker 2: a lot of people want to see the treaty actually

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Speaker 2: play a bigger role in our society. They see what's

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Speaker 2: happening as a sign of division and spoking and spoking

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Speaker 2: that division in society, happy with the treaty as a parent,

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Speaker 2: and I know there are heaps like me otherwise.

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Speaker 3: Look Erica stands done exactly the right thing here. The

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Speaker 3: reality is the Crown, the Government of New Zealand, is

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Speaker 3: the department to the Treaty of Whiting, as the Minister says,

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Speaker 3: And this endless sprinkling of treaty obligations throughout our country

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Speaker 3: so that everybody seems to have to live with, you know,

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Speaker 3: is required to comply with the treaty. It's not only,

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Speaker 3: you know, just illogical given the fact that the Crown's

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Speaker 3: the partner here, but it also puts them in an

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Speaker 3: impossible position. As you know, the Treaty of Whiting is

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Speaker 3: the subject of heated debate and changed by the courts

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Speaker 3: and changes and interpretation. How volunteer school boards supposed to

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Speaker 3: comply with all of that, it's an impossibility. What I

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Speaker 3: think they're focusing on properly, and what the Minister is

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Speaker 3: asking to focus on properly is please make sure that

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Speaker 3: everything you do tries to reduce the inequity between the

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Speaker 3: achievement of marriage students and the achievement of other students,

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Speaker 3: and that's entirely appropriate exactly what skill Board should be doing.

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Speaker 3: And I think that that is in fact in compliance

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Speaker 3: with the crowns obligation regard to the tweety white thing.

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Speaker 1: All right, okay, guys, we're going to take a break.

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Speaker 1: I want to know what you think about this rough

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Speaker 1: sleeper news that's dropped today. Right, you're back with the huddle,

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Speaker 1: Fellow Riley, Gareth Hughes, now Phil Labors drop the fact

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Speaker 1: that they believe that the government is going to introduce

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Speaker 1: a ban on rough sleepers and cities. How do you

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Speaker 1: feel about this?

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Speaker 3: I support the ban, but what are you going to

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Speaker 3: do with them? So the rough sleepers would become a

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Speaker 3: real issue, not just in New Zealand but also in

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Speaker 3: many cities around the world. And there's no question they

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Speaker 3: contribute to a feeling that the whole idea contributes to

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Speaker 3: a feeling of a lack of security, a lack of safety.

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Speaker 3: It can be quite confronting for people to have to

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Speaker 3: have to see all that and to be part of it.

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Speaker 3: So I agree with the idea that something should be

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Speaker 3: done about them, but you can't just say their band,

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Speaker 3: what are they going to do. Where are they going

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Speaker 3: to go? So you need to, I think, have a

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Speaker 3: wrap around service that says, we're not going to let

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Speaker 3: you sleep rough, but here's what we are going to do.

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Speaker 3: We're we're going to put you into some sort of

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Speaker 3: transitional accommodation or something like that, because often it's the

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Speaker 3: lack of that transitional accommodation or those kinds of wrap

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Speaker 3: around services that lead to the rough sleeping. Not always

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Speaker 3: some are rough sleeping, so they can beg let's be

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Speaker 3: clear about that, they're not all sort of necessarily if

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Speaker 3: people with no choice, sometimes they do with the choices.

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Speaker 3: But broadly speaking, banning them is not the only answer.

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Speaker 3: We should make sure they move somewhere more conducive to

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Speaker 3: their success.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd imagine, Gareth that at least at the outset,

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Speaker 1: if you do something like this, many of them will

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Speaker 1: be spending the night in jail.

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Speaker 2: Or wide are out of the city into the suburbs.

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Speaker 2: And I agree with fifty percent of what Phil said.

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Speaker 2: You know, we need to come up with comprehensive solutions

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Speaker 2: to the problem. If we're just banning it and moving

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Speaker 2: the problem elsewhere, you know, that's the definition of the

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Speaker 2: bottom of the cliff. Thinking where people are drifting down

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Speaker 2: the river a little bit further at the bottom of

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Speaker 2: the cliff reminds me in Wales they were handing out

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Speaker 2: stab proof sleeping bag coats. You know, this was not

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Speaker 2: the solution of the rough sleeping problem. It's giving people

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Speaker 2: houses and I get that it's really uncomfortable in a

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Speaker 2: lot of our city centers. It's sad for me as

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Speaker 2: a parent that my teen daughter doesn't feel safe walking

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Speaker 2: around downtown Wellington. But the answer is a self fair.

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Speaker 2: We've just got to get affordable housing. I know, unemployments

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Speaker 2: at a nine year high. It's not normal that we

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Speaker 2: have so much rough sleeping in this country. We didn't

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Speaker 2: used to have it, and it's a result of concrete policies.

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Speaker 2: But we can change those policies.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of probably quite normal nowadays, isn't it, though.

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Speaker 2: Cares it's sad. I'm not that old, but I still

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Speaker 2: remember a country where it just wasn't normal with one

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Speaker 2: person in Gisbel and where I grew up.

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Speaker 3: It happens in lots of cities and lots of countries,

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Speaker 3: and it's a wider issue than just you know, complaining

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Speaker 3: about how new Zealand's got poor policies, but it is

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Speaker 3: about making sure that there is something for them to do. Otherwise,

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Speaker 3: to Goa's point though, what are you going to do?

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Speaker 3: What are they going to do? Turn up a new limb?

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, so you need to have some

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Speaker 3: sort of opportunity to possible though phell.

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Speaker 1: That if you take them out of the city center,

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Speaker 1: the it's action to rough sleeping for some of them.

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Speaker 1: Some of them will fade, right because at least some

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Speaker 1: of the attraction is being there where the buzzers and

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Speaker 1: everybody else's and you're doing your drugs and you're you're

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Speaker 1: getting boozed. If you get pushed out to Newlan, it's

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Speaker 1: not nearly as fun if you're on your tod and

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Speaker 1: the bus stop.

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Speaker 3: I think that's right. In other words, you can't say

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Speaker 3: that all rough sleepers are there if you like, because

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Speaker 3: there's nowhere else them to go, right. But so that's right.

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Speaker 3: But I think there's enough of that as certainly as

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Speaker 3: I walk around walk from CBD and want you can

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Speaker 3: see we didn't see them. Certainly, some of them are

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Speaker 3: desperate souls and we need to help them. So I

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Speaker 3: think it's a you can be cynical either way about this.

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Speaker 3: This is a dreadful thing the government's doing. That they're

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Speaker 3: rough sleeping, that's not quite true. And that all of

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Speaker 3: them are just rough sleeping because they can they can

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Speaker 3: beg and do drugs. That's not true. Yeah, there's a

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Speaker 3: middle ground here.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: How are you stressed out, Gareth about the Chinese ambassador

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Speaker 1: sending letters to MPs?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't say stressed out, but it does seem to

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Speaker 2: be an increasing pattern and I think we should be

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Speaker 2: concerned about it because look, government, be it China or

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Speaker 2: Russia or the US, should be interfering our politics. I

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Speaker 2: actually agree with that TMP Laura McClure who said, you know,

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Speaker 2: in New Zealand, where parliament sovereign and our democracy, MPs

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Speaker 2: are free to exercise their judgment. I'm not happy that

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Speaker 2: the Chinese Embassy is sending a lot of criticisms of

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Speaker 2: late everything from from this is a visit to Taiwan

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Speaker 2: through to other things like the documentaries being screened, how

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Speaker 2: we operate customs. Yeah, we don't do it to them

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Speaker 2: and they shouldn't be doing it to us.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Phil.

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Speaker 3: People can send letters to MPs for all sorts of reasons.

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Speaker 3: So I've got no problem with Chinese ambassador's us inbassadors

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Speaker 3: you know, the Westmere Bowling Club or they had to

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Speaker 3: send the letter through. I take not much interest in

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Speaker 3: it other than to say, other than to say, the

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Speaker 3: MP should read that letter, should should take it for

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Speaker 3: what it's worth, and then I think properly ignore it

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Speaker 3: and get on, you know, doing what they need to do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, fair point. Hey, listen, thank you very much for

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Speaker 1: you too, I really appreciate it.

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Speaker 3: Go well.

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Speaker 1: That is Gareth Hughs and follow Raleiah Hudle this evening

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Speaker 1: for more.

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Speaker 3: From Hither Duplessy Allen Drive.

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