WEBVTT - Why midlife criticism hits so hard - and how to handle it 0:00:01.600 --> 0:00:02.759 Hi, I'm Projessica Rodkin. 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:05.200 Welcome to season six of our New Zealand Herald podcast 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:06.399 The Little Things. 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:08.560 And I'm Louise Arie. As you may well know, in 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:10.960 this podcast, we talk to experts and find out all 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:13.160 the little things you need to know to improve different 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:15.840 areas of your life. We cut through all the confusion 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:17.919 and overload of information out there to just try and 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:22.080 help your silfl fly your life really hopefully. Yeah and us, Yeah, yeah, totally. Hey, 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:24.160 can I ask a quick question? Have you got your 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:28.560 hat to have your hearing checked yet? What? Sorry, God, 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:33.320 that was a joke anyway, No, I haven't known. 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:36.080 No, It's just I've just noticed a couple of things 0:00:36.080 --> 0:00:39.160 in the last few weeks. And I think over Easter 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:41.480 for some reason, we were watching the six PM news, 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:43.400 which we never sit down and watch, and we have 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:46.360 some very very good news readers in this wed and 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:48.240 we were sitting there and this story came on and 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:52.960 the presenter said a man and his corkies were arrested 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:56.040 in the UK for damaging an Air Force aircraft. And 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:58.560 I was just sitting there going, why do he have 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:01.080 his cookies with him? Was trying to make some sort 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:04.840 of comment on you know, he's a support of the 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:07.080 queen or something. Just soper sad that you take your 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:09.800 corkies with you if you're going to kind of, you know, 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:12.120 to face these I don't know. It was so weird 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:13.560 and I turned and I looked at my partner and 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:17.280 he just looked me. Meant a man in his forties. 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:21.399 I've just been rifting on the fact that there was 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:22.759 this article but about a man and his. 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:28.119 Corkies and gone isn't too small to even so I've 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:29.280 done this huge rift on it. 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:32.639 He's like a man in his forties. I'm like, oh, okay, 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:35.600 so there were no corkies. I was like, it's like, no, no, 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:40.080 Corky left the corkies a home. Yeah, but this has 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:42.560 been happening a little bit and I kind of just 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:44.280 don't want to go because they're just going to say 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:46.839 something to me that I hear so often at the moment, 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:51.320 which is, well, it's okay for your age say that 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:57.000 that's kind of I mean, look between boob skin, cervix. 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:01.520 Is until your eyes. 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:05.080 Oh my ayes, that's bloody terrible yeap, yes, it just 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:08.040 look I can't say too much because I'm actually really 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:10.760 bad at looking after that too, And there is actually 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:13.920 a really good study going on at the university. If 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:16.400 you're between forty five and fifty five, you can go. 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:20.040 They're going to study the perimdopausal eye, which I think 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:21.880 is very cool. So you're going to sign up for 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:23.440 that one you get twenty dollars cool. 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:25.360 I probably do need to do that as well, because 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:29.200 I'm finding i'm sending off I always just write cheers 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:31.720 Francisca at the end of my emails, but the mbox 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:34.079 that that the print is very small, and I've noticed 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:37.760 actually have been sending off emails going cheese, Francisca. 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:42.160 It's just been automatically changing cheese. If I haven't noticed 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:44.600 how people are going cheese, you know? 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:45.000 That is? 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:45.840 She like, what is? 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:49.560 I have an extraordinary amount of floaters, but I have 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:52.000 always had them. And the other day I had a 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:53.760 bit of migrain and I was looking at my white 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:55.960 ceiling and I and they just I was like, how 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:57.440 do you even see out of these eyes of Luis? 0:02:57.440 --> 0:02:59.280 There's so many floaters. So that's another thing. I don't 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:00.919 don't think they can do anything. 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:02.639 About those that stage and stage. 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:06.560 Yeah, and no, I need to go to keep tacking 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:10.560 all these things off totally, totally right to today's We 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:13.520 have talked to the fabulous Lucy Hoane about her book, 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:14.440 now a best seller. 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:15.400 How will I get through this? 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:18.440 About some of the unwelcome events life throws at us? 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:21.120 But what about the everyday negative thoughts and criticisms that 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:24.520 undermine our general wellbeing and can sabotage our joy and 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:28.040 resilience in ways we might never even realize are hurting us, 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:30.480 or worst, we do realize, but we feel unable to 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:31.280 shift the pattern. 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:33.600 I mean, you've known me a long time, Franchis scat, 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:35.880 I can. I can like go into a downward spiral 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:39.800 pretty bloody fast, and some if I get bad feedback 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:43.880 or just hear some negative news, I don't seem to 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:47.280 spiral upwards nearly at the same rate. And I'm sure 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:48.320 I'm not alone in this. 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:50.400 It's just like an oil price. You rock it up 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:52.560 and you float down like a feather. 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:56.760 Oh thanks love. Even though like academically right, I know 0:03:57.160 --> 0:03:59.840 it's and I know and understand the principles of mindfulness 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:02.360 and things just being as they are, but it can 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:05.200 be quite hard sometimes to keep that negativity at bay. 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:08.120 It's not anxiety or depression. It's just feeling blah or 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:10.480 a little bit sorry for myself or for someone else. 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:11.560 Or for the world. 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:15.440 So how do you manage unwelcome negative thoughts or you're 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:16.200 inner self critic? 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:18.359 Francisca Well, I work in radio. 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:23.160 True, I work in the media, and you know, one 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:25.159 of the joys of my job has been able to 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:28.400 communicate with our audience through calls or texts and things. 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:33.440 But not everybody does communicate on the topic. And look, 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:36.080 I have no problem with people having completely different opinions 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:39.240 for me. I enjoy being challenged thinking about other people's perspectives. 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:41.400 But a few people do like to get personal, so 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:44.640 I have developed a pretty thick skin around it about 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:46.800 who to listen to and who not to listen to, 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:49.719 and when to listen and when not to. But look, 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:52.599 I'm often amazed at the number of very talented people 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:55.960 who I speak to on the Sunday session who will 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:57.880 say that they've got imposter syndrome. They don't feel like 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:00.520 they belong, they don't they don't feel like they should 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:04.440 be there, that they're not capable of, you know, doing 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:07.719 a job or that they're currently doing in things. 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:07.919 And I. 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:13.760 Find that sad that a you know, like negative thoughts 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:17.640 or sort of self criticism and things could stop people 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:21.839 from doing things, trying new things, or have confidence to doing. 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:23.560 And some of that will be what the world has 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:26.560 always told us, and particularly maybe for women and certainly 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:28.080 for middle age one who can start to feel a 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:31.280 little bit invisible. And some of it will be in 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:36.039 a critic that believes that stuff or who's internalized that stuff. 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:39.400 And I'd really like to get to the bottom of 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:44.320 that idea that we can change our responses to negative 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:49.400 feedback or criticism or or even learn from it. You know, 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:51.840 we're always into growth here, Francisca, aren't we. 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:52.520 That we are? 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:56.000 We've got the perfect person to help us out today. 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:58.840 Carl McDonald as a registered to psychotherapist with over twenty 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:02.760 years clinical experience across both public and private mental health services. 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:05.799 KYL is hugely passionate about educating the public around mental 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:08.279 health and emotional wellbeing, as well as being a vocal 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:11.279 advocate for improving our mental health services. He's chair of 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:15.280 the Psychotherapy Board of Altera, New Zealand, an author economist 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:17.120 for the New Zealand Herald and Here is a colleague 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:19.440 of mine at News talks. He'd be as co host 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:21.560 of the Nutters Club every Sunday night. 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:23.480 Kyle, welcome. Thank you so much for being with us. 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:24.080 Surely caught. 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:26.640 It fantastic to have you here, data to talk through 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:29.040 all these all these things that we might go here, there, 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:31.160 and everywhere. But I think we'll get there in the end. 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:32.919 That's all right. I'm sure we'll follow along. 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:35.760 Basically, we wanted you to give us a bit of 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:39.080 a hand because as we get older, we say that 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:42.320 we give less fucks about what people think about us, 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:48.200 and yet I think negative comments and criticism still can 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:50.040 hit a nerve with us. 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:51.280 Yeah, it still can. 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:53.400 I mean, I think we have to acknowledge that what 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:56.760 other people think of us really matters, no matter where 0:06:56.800 --> 0:06:58.880 we are in life. I guess it depends on who 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:01.160 it is that we're may matter though. 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:04.680 It's a very good point because I was resting all 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:06.840 my faith in what other people think of me as 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:09.400 none of my business. But maybe it is depending on 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:10.240 who the person is. 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:13.480 Yeah, well, sort of warming up for this today, I 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:15.080 was thinking about the fact that I think what's really 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:18.360 important with this is to think about the relationship, So 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:20.720 where the criticism is coming from and who the criticism 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:23.720 or negative feedback is coming from. But you know, it's 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:26.440 this old sort of Buddhist idea which I think is 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:29.320 often misinterpreted, which is that it's really important to have 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:32.120 compassion for our enemies or compassion for people to who 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:35.760 hurt us. And that's not about being nice or pleasant 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:39.120 or forgiving people or making it okay. It's about giving 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:41.400 some thought to what's going on for the other person 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:43.760 when they're behaving in ways that are harmful to us. 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:46.000 And so I sort of break it down into you know, 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:49.960 is it a bad day, is it thoughtlessness? 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:51.240 Or is it meanness? 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:53.280 And I think if we think about those three categories, 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:54.960 then we can sort of work our way through what's 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:58.360 actually happening when somebody's giving us a hard time. So 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:02.239 that first one, is it a bad day, is someone 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:04.480 who might just actually be in a bad place themselves, 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:07.120 And that's very much kind of important to then think about, well, 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:09.600 that's a the end problem. You know, if it's clear 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:11.320 that someone's having a bad day and they're taking it 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:12.960 out on us, it can still be hurtful. But I 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:15.760 think then it's actually about trying to recognize that what's 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:17.320 going on for them is theirs, and I don't have 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:20.760 to pick that up. If it's thoughtlessness, that's a little 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.320 bit more tricky, particularly if it's a relationship that matters, 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.160 because then it's about actually trying to let the other 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:28.160 person know what they might not be thinking about or 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:30.040 might not have in their mind about us. That has 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:32.240 meant that they've lashed out in some way and in 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:34.640 some ways. If it's someone who is just mean by nature, 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:36.240 then it's kind of the easiest one, right, It's like 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:37.040 dag gone. 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:38.559 Yeah, good point. 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:43.040 I've said this to you a lot over the years, 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:44.880 and I say to my kids all the time, especially 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:47.080 maybe when they were learning to drive, and maybe someone 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:48.920 would be very aggressive, l quite rude to them, will 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:51.200 do something stupid, you know, I say, you just do 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:52.920 not know what is going on in that car. You 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:55.199 do not know what kind of day that person has happened. 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:57.839 This could be the worst day of their life. And 0:08:58.440 --> 0:08:59.920 I think that is really important to remember. But I 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:02.000 remember one kid turning around instead of looking at me 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:04.080 and going what if it's not, I was like, Okay, 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:05.800 we'll just complicat. 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:08.160 Well, we'll never know, We'll never know. Let's just stick 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:08.559 with that. 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:11.560 So I quite like a bad day because the bad 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:14.000 day stops and me getting worked up about something. 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:17.960 Yes, and also you know if you're having a bad 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:20.760 day and you might lash out, but we would probably 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:24.439 apologize quite quickly. That you've got to have that. If 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:26.960 you're the person giving that, you'd usually say I'm sorry, 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:29.000 I'm just having a really terrible day or something. So 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:32.480 I guess this thing, this process that you've just described, 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:35.440 means that the person receiving the information does have to 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:37.600 take a beat. Yeah, we have to. 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:40.199 Keep our brain online, and that I think is always 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:43.640 the challenge. So you know, if we think about just 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:45.559 a bit of a mouthful really, which is we talk 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:48.760 about this idea and therapy of emotional regulation, which is basically, 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:51.760 how do you control the volume knob of your emotional 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:54.600 distress on any given day. And so to be able 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:56.640 to do that thinking, we do have to be regulated 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:58.720 enough to keep the you know, the front part of 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:02.120 our brain above our eye brain online to think about 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:05.080 the other person. So you know, that is important to 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:08.280 recognize that sometimes if we're losing our rag, actually the 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:10.360 thing we need to do is calm ourselves down. 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:12.079 First, and it could be you know, you need to 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:14.439 take a moment and go, Okay, am I tired? 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:17.080 Am I stress? What's going on? Yeah? Why am I 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:18.000 reacting this way? 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:18.480 Yeah? 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:19.880 We often talk about it on the show. Is the 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:23.679 boring stuff with you know, sleeping, eating, minimizing alcohol and drugs, 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:26.200 getting the exercise, you know, doing all that stuff which 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:28.439 everyone goes, oh, no, I should do it, But actually 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:30.120 it's always a good place to start women trying to 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:31.640 assess what's going on with ourselves. 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:35.320 There's also that saying, you know, never take criticism from 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:37.600 someone you wouldn't take advice from. And this comes back 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:40.480 to that what you're talking about the person who's delivering it. 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:44.560 And I think that that that's a nice saying to have, 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:47.400 but I don't know if it's quite that easy. It's 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:49.000 a nice thing to have in the back of your mind. 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:52.360 But then what if that criticism comes from someone that 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:53.920 you would take advice from. 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:57.040 Well, I think one of the hard ones which blows 0:10:57.080 --> 0:10:59.679 that role apart, is taking advice from your taking feedback 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:03.160 from your children. Yeah, because a lot of times, you know, 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:07.000 I've got two teenage girls or nearly a twelve year 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:09.040 old who thinks she's sixteen and a fifteen year old 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:13.079 who thinks she's eighteen. But that can be quite challenging 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:15.600 because our kids do tend to you know, throw it 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:17.400 back at us, and fair enough too a lot of 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:19.240 the time, but it can be quite hard as a 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:20.319 parent to take that feedback. 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:23.000 I think I agree completely. And then they move out 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:26.040 of home and they reflect on their you know, having 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:28.360 their own life somewhere else, and they reflect on their 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:30.520 home life or bring something back to you, and you're like, 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:32.320 I wish you'd said something at the time. 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:35.520 Yeah, yeah, well, hopefully come back to us and say 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:37.120 thank you so much for well they're is a bit 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:39.439 of that, obviously, but yeah. 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:42.120 Just ever so briefly, when they realize that they have 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:44.080 to do their own washing and cooking and cleaning up, 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:46.959 and they are actually responsible for themselves, then there's a 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:50.080 little bit of gratitude comes your way, doesn't it. I 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:55.160 find negative criticism or constructive criticism or negative comment. I 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:58.280 find they really only sting when there's an ounce of 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:02.319 truth to it. Yeah, you know, so for me, it's 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:06.720 about being able to go okay, oh that's just sitting 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:09.240 with me. It's really niggling. I'm still thinking about that 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:12.160 a few days later. And that is generally, if I'm 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:15.600 really honest with myself, is because there's something there that 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:16.600 maybe I. 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:19.360 Don't really want to have to think about or face 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:22.959 or deal with, but then actually it can be very 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:23.760 useful to do so. 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:26.840 Yeah, and I think that's the painful bit, right, And again, 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:30.520 if we think about that idea of emotional regulation, that pain, 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:33.120 that what we commonly think of is having touched a nerve, 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:35.920 That pain can get in the way of us being 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:37.840 able to think through what's actually being said to us, 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:40.960 because actually there's a you know, criticism is easy to 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:42.600 think of as a negative thing, but I often think 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:44.840 about it as feedback, which can be positive or negative. 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:48.640 And a lot of time that's where our growth in 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:52.280 learning is, which isn't easy and isn't necessarily pain free. 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:54.360 But like you say, I mean again that that's one 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:56.360 of the sort of the big ways when I was 0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:59.439 thinking about this topic today, one of the big difficult 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:01.560 bits is that actually, the more we can increase our 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:03.880 own self awareness, the more we can be honest with 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:06.440 ourselves about where our own weak spots are. You know, 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:08.240 do we have a tendency to fly off the handle 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:11.200 or you know, to get frustrated when we're tired, or 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:14.400 do we have a tendency to get angry, or are 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:16.319 we not very patient sometimes at the end of the 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:18.960 day with our kids. Then actually that opens up the 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:21.760 possibility of taking responsibility. I mean, I was like the 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:24.560 way that AA or Alcoholics Anonymous put it, which is 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:26.160 that actually we have to take care of our own 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:29.840 side of the street. So it's a challenging idea, but 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:32.280 I think a lot of times, particularly with people we 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:35.120 like or respect, if they're saying something to us, the 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:39.120 question we should be asking is are they right? What 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:40.960 do I need to hear in this? What message can 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:42.320 I take from what they're saying? 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:45.200 Because if you're a parent who's dealing with what you 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:48.360 might think a difficult a difficult phase with your children, 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.120 or you're at work and you're not things aren't going 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:53.920 great at work, and you know, you're not really interested 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:56.400 in maybe what your boss or you know, someone seeing 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:58.640 your has to say to you, it can be quite 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:02.440 hard to stop and take that beat and take things 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:02.920 on board. 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:06.440 Absolutely, And I think, you know, the professional environment's kind 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:08.320 of a whole other category in and of itself, really, 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:11.120 but I think that it's also okay with feedback to 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:13.960 be able to say, particularly probably with family members more 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:17.400 than a workplace. Actually, now is not the time I'm 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:20.200 happy to talk about this. But actually I'm finding myself 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:22.320 getting quite upset right now about this. Maybe we can 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:24.640 come back to this. And so it's often useful when 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:28.160 we think about giving feedback to strike when the iron's cold, 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:31.080 as we say that the worst time to give someone 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:32.880 feedback is when you're in the midst of the argument. 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:35.960 No one takes feedback at that moment, but actually being 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:38.440 able to then sit down calmly later, which is often 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:41.480 the temptation then, of course, to avoid the topic and 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:44.160 then actually take some time to talk it through then. 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:45.520 But it actually doesn't. 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:48.040 That doesn't that feed into other aspects of our lives 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:51.360 and personal workplaces, like if you're pulled aside and someone 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:54.440 has some comments to make about your performance and things, Actually, 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:56.760 isn't it good to go Okay, that's really interesting? Can 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:59.320 I go away and think about that? You know, you're 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:04.400 immediately removing yourself from getting defensive or from getting angry, 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:07.560 or from you know, getting upset. You can just give 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:09.480 yourself an opportunity to walk away and think about it. 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:12.400 I mean, it sort of works across the board, i'd imagine. 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:15.440 I think so. And I think another great strategy is 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:20.440 always sleep on it because that slows us down immediately. 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:20.680 Right. 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:24.239 Hopefully most of the time we wake up more regulated 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:26.880 the next day than we were the night before. I 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:29.520 think in the professional environment those categories still apply to 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:30.880 by the way I mean, I think one of the 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:33.080 big problems which a lot of people find their way 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:36.920 into therapy because of is is what I would call 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:40.600 the mean boss, right, So, you know, the bullying problem. So, yes, 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:42.840 it can be hard to take feedback at work, particularly 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.480 if it is critical. But actually a lot of times 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:49.120 I think that bullying at work and struggling with someone 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:53.160 who consistently takes their stuff out on employees is one 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:56.240 of the things that often gets people into therapy because 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:58.720 it can be really debilitating. So you know, when we 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:02.080 think about taking responsibility and processing and regulating ourselves and 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:03.840 doing all of those things, that's really important to say 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:07.280 that actually, sometimes if we encounter someone as just being mean, 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:09.960 we actually have to take action to protect our side. 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:12.120 I couldn't agree more. I think that is where the 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:15.520 buck stops, and that it's beyond your rational brain because 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:18.680 I think that is where it just swirls around in 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:21.200 your head so much and there is no and it's 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:23.160 that fairness thing and all of those things. And I 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:25.680 think we do have to recognize that there are occasional, 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:29.520 definitely situations where you need to seek outside help. And 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:32.080 you're also entitled to say stop. You know, you don't 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:34.680 need to tell that person, but I tell yourself that 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:36.960 there is that option of going to get professional help 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:42.280 to work that through psychologically and physiologically, because it has 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:47.000 impacts on everything that's really interesting to me, just something 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:48.320 that's going on in my life at the moment, not 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:50.080 me Persley, I'm not being bullied. 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:53.440 And just on the side. Out of people that do 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:56.560 come and get therapy, how many are coming for a 0:16:56.600 --> 0:17:00.560 personal problem or work problem or I just I don't 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:02.560 know if you guys ever have a moment where you're 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:04.880 able to kind of tally it up in a certain way. 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:08.240 But yeah, I mean it's a tricky question in a way, 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:10.040 because I guess the way that I look at anyone 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:12.879 who lands in my office is they're there for a 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:15.679 stated reason, right, which is what traditionally we kind of 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:19.199 called the symptom quote. And then of course there's the 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:21.760 background as to why that symptom has emerged. So often 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:24.199 someone will arrive in therapy because they are struggling with 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:26.280 something in the present day, but there's a story to 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:29.120 that particular trigger or nerve that's been hit for them. 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:32.080 And so again not minimizing the impact of bollying, but 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:35.000 often people find that those dynamics that they experienced early 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:38.440 in their family and their childhood show up in workplaces 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:41.679 where they react to someone who's behaving badly but with 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:44.320 the volume turned way up, and that's what throws them 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:46.240 off course or lands them in my office. 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:48.560 And that's what I liked about something you've said. I 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:50.920 think is regardless of the responses you may have developed 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:53.719 to this point, you're not locked into those behaviors. So 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:57.840 that's talking about the patterns over our lifetime, the pat 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:01.439