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Speaker 1: The first phase of the Royal Commission inquiry into the

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Speaker 1: COVID response has been released, and while it says many

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Speaker 1: things were done correctly, it's highly critical of the government

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Speaker 1: response at the time, particularly around mandates and the length

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Speaker 1: of lockdowns. Lady Deborah Chambers Casey wrote an opinion piece

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Speaker 1: at the time, and I spoke to her then. This

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Speaker 1: is the first line from it. The emergency legislation in

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Speaker 1: response to COVID nineteen giving our government the right to

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Speaker 1: control our freedom of movement is no longer demonstrably justified

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Speaker 1: in removing the fundamental rights to which New Zealanders are entitled.

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Speaker 1: And Lady Deb's with me this morning. Good morning, Good

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Speaker 1: morning Ryan, great to speak to you again. How did

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Speaker 1: you feel or what did you think reading that or

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Speaker 1: having a look at that report yesterday?

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Speaker 2: Well, I thought there was some good news there in

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Speaker 2: that Tony, Professor Tony Blakeley has grappled with the some

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Speaker 2: and the hurt caused to a lot of New Zealanders

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Speaker 2: and the harm caused to a lot of New Zealanders

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Speaker 2: by our government's response to COVID, and he also obviously

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Speaker 2: has some pretty good ideas about a heart to cope

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Speaker 2: next time, but he does grapple with this issue of

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Speaker 2: excessive use of lockdowns. And he's also, as we know,

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Speaker 2: very critical of the mandates, particularly towards the end period

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Speaker 2: of the epidemic.

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Speaker 1: Do we need some kind of accountability for this?

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Speaker 2: Well, personally, I think that an apology is due. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I was pro vaccination, so I wasn't affected by the mandates.

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Speaker 2: But I know from my interaction and from this report

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Speaker 2: that those people affected by the mandates who lost their jobs,

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Speaker 2: for example, are very angry still. You see them and

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Speaker 2: you hear them in the community and at political things

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Speaker 2: and so on, that they disrupt political meetings. They are

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Speaker 2: feeling so angry by that so and that social lack

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Speaker 2: of cohesion not forgetting and they're quite a big group,

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Speaker 2: so and they feel very hurt. And also I also

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Speaker 2: think there's been, as the Commission says, this reduction throughout

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Speaker 2: New Zealand and confidence and government. So I mean, I

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Speaker 2: must say I'm pointing the singer Chris Hipkins. Why because

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Speaker 2: he was Minister in charge of COVID nineteen response, Education, Police,

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Speaker 2: Health and Deputy Prime Minister. And he's the only one

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Speaker 2: of the three of them who are still there in Parliament,

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Speaker 2: and you know his response is so far. Quote it's

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Speaker 2: a really helpful report. Quote, I accept the Royal Commissions

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Speaker 2: finding that there were things that could have been done differently. Well,

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Speaker 2: it's the usual weatl words, isn't it from politicians? I mean,

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Speaker 2: he would be better and it would be it would

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Speaker 2: make a difference to people if he said we made

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Speaker 2: for real mistakes and I'm sorry we did that. I'm

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Speaker 2: sorry we did that around these issues of mandates lockdowns

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Speaker 2: and I think am i q as well?

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Speaker 1: What about just an apology basically from Hopkins? Yeah, what

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Speaker 1: about the And we've only got about a minute left here,

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Speaker 1: lady Deborah, but what about the you wrote this column.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you would have got lots of kickback from

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Speaker 1: lots of corners. Just that that social fragmentation, when one

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Speaker 1: person put their head above the parapet to say something

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Speaker 1: that God forbid might contradict the prevailing narrative, you're shot down.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, that was definitely the case that no other

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Speaker 2: view was accepted, and it was, you know, very it

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Speaker 2: was like a fundamentalist religion. It was far too rigid

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Speaker 2: and far too lacking and taking into account other people's perspectives.

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Speaker 2: As a sorry state that we were in.

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Speaker 1: Lady DEBORH. Chambers, I appreciate your time. Thank you very

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Speaker 1: much for being with me, my pleasure.

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Speaker 2: Nice to talk. For more from Early Edition with Ryan Bridge.

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Speaker 2: Listen live to News Talks. It'd be from five am weekdays,

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