1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,467 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:12,067 Speaker 1: from Newstalk ZB. 3 00:00:12,747 --> 00:00:17,227 Speaker 2: Interesting stories of this week centered around the world's number 4 00:00:17,267 --> 00:00:19,627 Speaker 2: one ranked men's tennis player. 5 00:00:20,347 --> 00:00:24,067 Speaker 1: Janick Center. Is the Cincinnati. 6 00:00:23,227 --> 00:00:25,827 Speaker 2: Champion thinks Thanks Too. 7 00:00:26,147 --> 00:00:28,987 Speaker 3: It is a third Master's trophy perfo's career. 8 00:00:30,107 --> 00:00:33,347 Speaker 2: It was revealed this week that Janick Sinner tested positive 9 00:00:33,587 --> 00:00:37,387 Speaker 2: twice in March for low levels of the banned anabolic 10 00:00:37,427 --> 00:00:41,827 Speaker 2: steroid coster bowl, which can be used to build muscle mass. Now, 11 00:00:41,867 --> 00:00:44,427 Speaker 2: Sinner was stripped of his prize money and the points 12 00:00:44,427 --> 00:00:48,027 Speaker 2: he earned at the Masters tournament in Indian Wells, California, 13 00:00:48,227 --> 00:00:52,347 Speaker 2: That's where the positive test took place, but he hasn't 14 00:00:52,387 --> 00:00:57,987 Speaker 2: been suspended after an independent tribunal found it wasn't intentional. Now, 15 00:00:58,027 --> 00:01:02,907 Speaker 2: Janicksoner's defense was that his fitness trainer purchased an over 16 00:01:02,947 --> 00:01:07,947 Speaker 2: the counter spray that contained closter, gave it to the 17 00:01:07,947 --> 00:01:12,867 Speaker 2: physio to treat a cut on the physio's finger, and 18 00:01:12,907 --> 00:01:15,907 Speaker 2: then the physio gave Sinner a massage and in the 19 00:01:15,947 --> 00:01:19,187 Speaker 2: process of that cost a Bowl found its way into 20 00:01:19,267 --> 00:01:22,907 Speaker 2: Yarick Sentner's bloodstream. Now Youllick Center has since fired his 21 00:01:22,987 --> 00:01:26,147 Speaker 2: physio and his fitness trainer and is free to play 22 00:01:26,227 --> 00:01:28,947 Speaker 2: at the US Open starting next week in New York. 23 00:01:29,427 --> 00:01:32,707 Speaker 2: David Helman was directed General of the World Anti Doping 24 00:01:32,707 --> 00:01:36,227 Speaker 2: Agency WADA between August two thousand and three and July 25 00:01:36,387 --> 00:01:40,107 Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, and he joins us that's the explanation, David, 26 00:01:40,147 --> 00:01:42,747 Speaker 2: that it was a spray on the finger of the physio. 27 00:01:42,867 --> 00:01:46,107 Speaker 2: The physio then gave Jaricksoner a massage and that's how 28 00:01:46,307 --> 00:01:49,907 Speaker 2: this coster bowl found his way into Yaricksenter's system. Does 29 00:01:49,947 --> 00:01:52,387 Speaker 2: that sound like a feasible explanation. 30 00:01:53,427 --> 00:01:56,867 Speaker 3: Well, it held up in front of a independent tribunal, Jason, 31 00:01:56,907 --> 00:02:00,547 Speaker 3: and I think that's the important component. There's no decision 32 00:02:00,627 --> 00:02:03,547 Speaker 3: taken by the tennis authorities. It's ready that which has 33 00:02:03,867 --> 00:02:07,307 Speaker 3: been handed down by an arbitration panel, and I think 34 00:02:07,347 --> 00:02:10,707 Speaker 3: that puts it a little bit to one side. What 35 00:02:10,867 --> 00:02:15,027 Speaker 3: I think people don't understand is that the procedure followed 36 00:02:15,067 --> 00:02:18,667 Speaker 3: in his case was one in relation to a provisional suspension. 37 00:02:19,387 --> 00:02:22,347 Speaker 3: So when an athlete test positive for a substance like 38 00:02:22,427 --> 00:02:26,267 Speaker 3: cost the World, which are referred to as non specified 39 00:02:26,307 --> 00:02:31,307 Speaker 3: substances in the World Code, they are told immediately of 40 00:02:31,347 --> 00:02:33,947 Speaker 3: the result and informed that they are going to be 41 00:02:34,027 --> 00:02:39,587 Speaker 3: provisionally suspended unless they protest that. And he obviously protested it, 42 00:02:39,667 --> 00:02:42,987 Speaker 3: not just once but twice and went to a tribunial 43 00:02:43,027 --> 00:02:49,027 Speaker 3: immediately and asked for Obviously he got suppression of name 44 00:02:49,067 --> 00:02:52,307 Speaker 3: as well, Jason. So that's the process that was followed 45 00:02:52,707 --> 00:02:55,147 Speaker 3: and then led to a further investigation of whether what 46 00:02:55,187 --> 00:02:59,347 Speaker 3: he was alleging was what's feasible. There was evidence given 47 00:02:59,347 --> 00:03:02,227 Speaker 3: to the tribunal I think, said again later in the 48 00:03:02,267 --> 00:03:06,587 Speaker 3: year and delivered a decision in August that indicated the 49 00:03:07,187 --> 00:03:10,187 Speaker 3: explanation he offered was well feasible. 50 00:03:10,747 --> 00:03:12,787 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think what you've just outlined there that there's 51 00:03:12,827 --> 00:03:14,507 Speaker 2: been quite a bit of criticism of that from other 52 00:03:14,547 --> 00:03:17,547 Speaker 2: pies actually, that you know, when your test positive, you 53 00:03:17,547 --> 00:03:21,587 Speaker 2: should be banned until the hearing is held. In fact, 54 00:03:21,667 --> 00:03:23,467 Speaker 2: he went on to win a couple of tournaments, he 55 00:03:23,547 --> 00:03:26,347 Speaker 2: became world number one for the first time. Should he 56 00:03:26,427 --> 00:03:28,547 Speaker 2: have been suspended until the verdict was rich. 57 00:03:29,227 --> 00:03:33,667 Speaker 3: Well, he would normally have been suspended, and he protested that, Jason, 58 00:03:33,747 --> 00:03:36,227 Speaker 3: and so they had more than one hearing. They would 59 00:03:36,227 --> 00:03:38,667 Speaker 3: have had a hearing in the first week of March 60 00:03:38,707 --> 00:03:43,467 Speaker 3: after his first positive test, where he protested the provisional 61 00:03:43,507 --> 00:03:48,067 Speaker 3: suspension which would have been automatically applied, and he won that, 62 00:03:48,747 --> 00:03:50,827 Speaker 3: and then he had another one I think it was 63 00:03:50,827 --> 00:03:53,667 Speaker 3: on the tenth of March, which he also protested immediately 64 00:03:54,067 --> 00:03:56,907 Speaker 3: because the notice that you get about your positive tests 65 00:03:56,947 --> 00:04:00,747 Speaker 3: says we're going to suspend you provisionally unless we hear 66 00:04:00,787 --> 00:04:05,627 Speaker 3: from you to indicate that you protest that suspension and 67 00:04:05,667 --> 00:04:10,227 Speaker 3: it's related to contamination. So that's what happened. I think 68 00:04:10,267 --> 00:04:12,227 Speaker 3: at the end he would have had three different hearings. 69 00:04:13,667 --> 00:04:17,387 Speaker 2: There's been a suggestion too that the latest hearing which 70 00:04:17,427 --> 00:04:22,267 Speaker 2: has cleared him happened quite quickly, fewer than five months 71 00:04:22,267 --> 00:04:25,507 Speaker 2: between the positive test and this verdict which is found 72 00:04:25,587 --> 00:04:29,147 Speaker 2: him with no fault or negligence. Would it normally take 73 00:04:29,227 --> 00:04:30,627 Speaker 2: longer than that, David. 74 00:04:31,627 --> 00:04:36,267 Speaker 3: Look, that depends on which tribunal you're using, And yes, 75 00:04:36,307 --> 00:04:39,827 Speaker 3: there are many cases that take far too long and therefore, 76 00:04:40,427 --> 00:04:42,387 Speaker 3: and a lot of those are dealt with by the 77 00:04:42,387 --> 00:04:44,747 Speaker 3: Court of Arbitration. For sport, you can wait for a year, 78 00:04:44,867 --> 00:04:49,427 Speaker 3: maybe even two years. That's not acceptable. So the body 79 00:04:49,507 --> 00:04:56,507 Speaker 3: that he went to, which is the Independent International Tennis Authority, 80 00:04:56,787 --> 00:04:59,867 Speaker 3: well it's an integrity agency. In fact, it's an independent 81 00:04:59,907 --> 00:05:04,507 Speaker 3: body from International Tennis itself, they would have provoked the 82 00:05:04,587 --> 00:05:08,347 Speaker 3: tribunal that they use to hear alligiency, and that would 83 00:05:08,387 --> 00:05:11,667 Speaker 3: have bought about that result quickly rather than any delay. 84 00:05:12,507 --> 00:05:15,027 Speaker 2: Do reckan there's any validity in the claims that it's 85 00:05:15,067 --> 00:05:18,907 Speaker 2: been expediated because expedited rather because it's because he's number one. 86 00:05:20,347 --> 00:05:22,587 Speaker 3: Well, you can look all these things, you can sort 87 00:05:22,627 --> 00:05:25,587 Speaker 3: of make up. I can say from my experience now 88 00:05:25,827 --> 00:05:29,347 Speaker 3: with the World Athletics Integrity Unit, we try to get 89 00:05:29,387 --> 00:05:33,627 Speaker 3: all our cases done as possible and within months, not years. 90 00:05:34,147 --> 00:05:36,387 Speaker 3: So the aim of bodies which are trying to do 91 00:05:36,467 --> 00:05:38,227 Speaker 3: these things in a proper way would be to get 92 00:05:38,227 --> 00:05:41,707 Speaker 3: these things organized in front of a tribunal as quickly 93 00:05:41,747 --> 00:05:45,267 Speaker 3: as possible, and four or five months is not sometimes 94 00:05:45,307 --> 00:05:46,347 Speaker 3: as quick as I would want. 95 00:05:47,147 --> 00:05:49,707 Speaker 2: Let's assume that that this is he's telling the truth, 96 00:05:49,707 --> 00:05:52,587 Speaker 2: that this is indeed what has happened. Why would a 97 00:05:52,627 --> 00:05:54,547 Speaker 2: trainer put a player at risk like that? 98 00:05:55,987 --> 00:05:58,227 Speaker 3: Well, that's a good question, and I haven't and I 99 00:05:58,227 --> 00:06:01,667 Speaker 3: don't think anybody has read the decision of the tribunal yet, 100 00:06:02,267 --> 00:06:04,547 Speaker 3: not a bit loaths to sort of start commenting about 101 00:06:04,547 --> 00:06:08,547 Speaker 3: whether I would believe it or not believe it. I 102 00:06:08,627 --> 00:06:11,747 Speaker 3: believe the process is correct, but we need to see 103 00:06:11,787 --> 00:06:16,187 Speaker 3: why they decided it. Apparently it was because he didn't 104 00:06:16,267 --> 00:06:18,507 Speaker 3: know that the spray he was using for his cut 105 00:06:18,627 --> 00:06:24,467 Speaker 3: finger contained the cost of all component. Apparently, and I'm 106 00:06:24,507 --> 00:06:27,787 Speaker 3: not saying this is true or not, Jason. In Italy, 107 00:06:28,067 --> 00:06:32,147 Speaker 3: you buy the substance, the spray across the counter, and 108 00:06:32,707 --> 00:06:35,147 Speaker 3: I guess the trainer didn't look and see what was 109 00:06:35,187 --> 00:06:38,387 Speaker 3: on it, and they didn't understand that if he sprayed 110 00:06:38,387 --> 00:06:40,587 Speaker 3: his finger and then he massages so that it would 111 00:06:40,587 --> 00:06:43,707 Speaker 3: be transferred into his body. So you know, there's all 112 00:06:43,707 --> 00:06:46,067 Speaker 3: those sort of factors that you've got to look at 113 00:06:46,107 --> 00:06:50,187 Speaker 3: how they reached the conclusion and whether you and I 114 00:06:50,307 --> 00:06:52,747 Speaker 3: and others might accept the conclusion that was reached by 115 00:06:52,747 --> 00:06:53,387 Speaker 3: the tribunal. 116 00:06:53,907 --> 00:06:56,467 Speaker 2: So they're basically pleading ignorance. I didn't I didn't know 117 00:06:56,507 --> 00:06:58,387 Speaker 2: it had cost of al in it. I didn't know 118 00:06:58,427 --> 00:07:02,107 Speaker 2: that massaging center would bring about this result. In your 119 00:07:02,187 --> 00:07:05,947 Speaker 2: experience of these things, how often is ignorance real or 120 00:07:05,987 --> 00:07:08,467 Speaker 2: otherwise used as a defense. 121 00:07:09,667 --> 00:07:12,187 Speaker 3: Well, it has been used a lot and not accepted 122 00:07:12,227 --> 00:07:14,867 Speaker 3: a lot. So you know, you've got some athletes who 123 00:07:14,867 --> 00:07:19,867 Speaker 3: have raised it who have been denied by tribunals, and 124 00:07:19,987 --> 00:07:21,907 Speaker 3: I think there's a bit of a trend now for 125 00:07:22,027 --> 00:07:26,427 Speaker 3: people to raise contamination as a possibility. Some of this 126 00:07:26,587 --> 00:07:29,387 Speaker 3: leads from the recent World decision in relation to the 127 00:07:29,467 --> 00:07:33,187 Speaker 3: Chinese swims, and so it's going to be something I 128 00:07:33,187 --> 00:07:36,107 Speaker 3: think we confront on a more regular basis. As to 129 00:07:36,467 --> 00:07:40,867 Speaker 3: as to number one player being receiving any preference, I don't. 130 00:07:40,907 --> 00:07:42,947 Speaker 3: I don't think that holds too much for her, But 131 00:07:43,027 --> 00:07:46,867 Speaker 3: I think the water is put into the substance of 132 00:07:46,907 --> 00:07:48,667 Speaker 3: it by the fact that he was able to get 133 00:07:48,747 --> 00:07:53,747 Speaker 3: pretty good information from lawyers and experts quickly, and that 134 00:07:53,827 --> 00:07:56,307 Speaker 3: requires money, and he probably got more money than some 135 00:07:56,347 --> 00:07:57,427 Speaker 3: of the lard great players. 136 00:07:58,547 --> 00:08:01,427 Speaker 2: Again, if we assume, you know, for the sake of argument, 137 00:08:01,467 --> 00:08:05,187 Speaker 2: that he's telling the truth, there has to be some 138 00:08:05,227 --> 00:08:10,107 Speaker 2: sort of structure in place that allows him to go free, 139 00:08:10,107 --> 00:08:13,067 Speaker 2: if you like, because if this really has happened, he's 140 00:08:13,067 --> 00:08:15,667 Speaker 2: not at fault. He might have been slightly negligent, as 141 00:08:15,707 --> 00:08:18,547 Speaker 2: may have been his trainer or messuse or whoever it was, 142 00:08:18,627 --> 00:08:21,587 Speaker 2: but there has to be some sort of logical process 143 00:08:21,627 --> 00:08:23,347 Speaker 2: here to say, Okay, you weren't trying to cheat the 144 00:08:23,347 --> 00:08:26,267 Speaker 2: system you're not trying to gain any advantage here. You're 145 00:08:26,307 --> 00:08:26,827 Speaker 2: free to go. 146 00:08:28,067 --> 00:08:30,267 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think the process is there. My 147 00:08:30,747 --> 00:08:34,187 Speaker 3: concern is the course that when you publish the result, 148 00:08:35,427 --> 00:08:38,427 Speaker 3: sometimes the decision is not published alongside it. And I 149 00:08:38,507 --> 00:08:40,747 Speaker 3: really think if you had the decision with all the 150 00:08:40,787 --> 00:08:43,747 Speaker 3: information relating to the evidence that was given to the 151 00:08:43,747 --> 00:08:46,507 Speaker 3: tribunal and so forth, then the public will be in 152 00:08:46,507 --> 00:08:49,507 Speaker 3: a better place. And my real concern about what goes 153 00:08:49,547 --> 00:08:53,147 Speaker 3: on in antidoping nowadays is there's too much hidden behind 154 00:08:53,427 --> 00:08:57,347 Speaker 3: decisions and very few decisions that are actually published, and 155 00:08:57,387 --> 00:09:00,747 Speaker 3: that leads to distrust not only of the system by athletes, 156 00:09:00,787 --> 00:09:04,347 Speaker 3: but also by the public. And my view now, and 157 00:09:04,387 --> 00:09:06,827 Speaker 3: obviously I've been around for a while, Jason, but you 158 00:09:06,867 --> 00:09:09,707 Speaker 3: don't realize that the public doesn't have as much information 159 00:09:09,787 --> 00:09:12,747 Speaker 3: as they would need to form a view, and they 160 00:09:12,747 --> 00:09:15,027 Speaker 3: should be given it. Why don't it not just the 161 00:09:15,067 --> 00:09:15,947 Speaker 3: athletes that need it? 162 00:09:16,227 --> 00:09:18,827 Speaker 2: Why don't why aren't those results automatically published? 163 00:09:20,507 --> 00:09:24,187 Speaker 3: Then arbitration process that says you don't publish decisions reached 164 00:09:24,187 --> 00:09:28,627 Speaker 3: and arbitration decisions unless both parties agree. Right now, one 165 00:09:28,667 --> 00:09:32,747 Speaker 3: example of where it hasn't been put out there in 166 00:09:32,787 --> 00:09:35,267 Speaker 3: the public. Is the hell Up case also a tennis 167 00:09:35,267 --> 00:09:38,667 Speaker 3: matter where she went through quite a long process to 168 00:09:38,707 --> 00:09:41,667 Speaker 3: get to the stage of being exonerated, but the decision 169 00:09:41,707 --> 00:09:44,747 Speaker 3: of exonerating it still hasn't been published. It was made 170 00:09:44,747 --> 00:09:45,227 Speaker 3: in March. 171 00:09:46,827 --> 00:09:49,467 Speaker 2: A billionth of a gram is what's being reported here? 172 00:09:49,507 --> 00:09:51,947 Speaker 2: That doesn't sound like a lot. That's a decimal point. 173 00:09:52,147 --> 00:09:55,707 Speaker 2: Then eight zero's before you reach the one. Should the 174 00:09:55,707 --> 00:09:56,987 Speaker 2: threshold be a bit higher. 175 00:09:56,867 --> 00:10:01,467 Speaker 3: David, That's not even a pin there, is it. So 176 00:10:02,147 --> 00:10:05,947 Speaker 3: they've got to look and say is that warranted, and 177 00:10:06,027 --> 00:10:09,827 Speaker 3: look at the reporting levels that are required for certain substances. 178 00:10:10,707 --> 00:10:13,707 Speaker 3: The reason that they do go go to minute sort 179 00:10:13,747 --> 00:10:17,907 Speaker 3: of levels is because otherwise players can dope, you know, 180 00:10:18,067 --> 00:10:21,707 Speaker 3: three months ago, and it's still in their system when 181 00:10:21,707 --> 00:10:24,947 Speaker 3: they're tested three months after they've taken it. That doesn't 182 00:10:24,987 --> 00:10:27,067 Speaker 3: indicate they only had a little bit. It might indicate 183 00:10:27,107 --> 00:10:28,507 Speaker 3: that they had a heck of a lot. It's out 184 00:10:28,507 --> 00:10:31,947 Speaker 3: of their system. So you've got to draw a balance, 185 00:10:31,987 --> 00:10:36,667 Speaker 3: I suppose between minute results and the fact that this person, 186 00:10:36,827 --> 00:10:39,707 Speaker 3: the athlete, might have been doping for a while and 187 00:10:39,867 --> 00:10:41,587 Speaker 3: it's gone mostly out of their system. 188 00:10:41,987 --> 00:10:44,147 Speaker 2: Yeah, good point. And there is a right of appeal 189 00:10:44,187 --> 00:10:47,627 Speaker 2: here to why to buy the International Tennis Integrity Agency. 190 00:10:47,667 --> 00:10:49,867 Speaker 2: Do you think that'll be exercised. 191 00:10:51,107 --> 00:10:53,587 Speaker 3: Well, I wouldn't want to guess, but they certainly indicated 192 00:10:53,667 --> 00:10:56,907 Speaker 3: in the case of a recent American one hundred meter 193 00:10:56,987 --> 00:10:59,387 Speaker 3: sprinter that they were going to appeal as soon as 194 00:10:59,387 --> 00:11:03,307 Speaker 3: they heard the initial decision, and that has now been 195 00:11:03,507 --> 00:11:07,547 Speaker 3: appealed by World Athletics. We haven't heard whether they're going 196 00:11:07,587 --> 00:11:10,147 Speaker 3: to do that yet or not. As well as this one, 197 00:11:10,347 --> 00:11:12,347 Speaker 3: I think what you have to remember is they need 198 00:11:12,387 --> 00:11:15,947 Speaker 3: to get the case file and read all the information 199 00:11:16,027 --> 00:11:19,787 Speaker 3: on it, including all the affidavits relating to the people 200 00:11:19,787 --> 00:11:23,107 Speaker 3: giving evidence and the decision before they say, Okay, this 201 00:11:23,187 --> 00:11:24,507 Speaker 3: is one we're going to have a crack at. 202 00:11:25,307 --> 00:11:28,227 Speaker 2: And as far as Joannick Center is concerned, what reception 203 00:11:28,307 --> 00:11:30,907 Speaker 2: do you expect him to get? Both from this you know, 204 00:11:30,987 --> 00:11:33,067 Speaker 2: all the professionals on the tour who he mixes with 205 00:11:33,147 --> 00:11:35,467 Speaker 2: we can weak out, and I guess from crowds as 206 00:11:35,507 --> 00:11:38,387 Speaker 2: well at the upcoming US Open and beyond. 207 00:11:39,387 --> 00:11:42,187 Speaker 3: Well, some of that will depend on the views that 208 00:11:42,227 --> 00:11:44,827 Speaker 3: people hold, and people have different views for different reasons, 209 00:11:44,827 --> 00:11:48,147 Speaker 3: and I'm sure he'll be confronted by those who support 210 00:11:48,187 --> 00:11:49,907 Speaker 3: him and those who probably think that he got a 211 00:11:49,907 --> 00:11:54,027 Speaker 3: pretty easy run. You can't. You can't tell people how 212 00:11:54,107 --> 00:11:57,147 Speaker 3: to receive things. You've got to wait and see how 213 00:11:57,187 --> 00:12:00,187 Speaker 3: they react to the information they've got, And my concern 214 00:12:00,307 --> 00:12:01,187 Speaker 3: is they don't have enough. 215 00:12:01,907 --> 00:12:03,547 Speaker 2: Yeah, that seems to be the nub of this. If 216 00:12:03,547 --> 00:12:07,267 Speaker 2: we're all privy to everything we need to know to 217 00:12:07,267 --> 00:12:10,747 Speaker 2: make a fully formed decision, it might be slightly less problematic. David, 218 00:12:10,747 --> 00:12:13,507 Speaker 2: thanks for lending us your expertise this afternoon. Really interesting stuff. 219 00:12:13,547 --> 00:12:17,187 Speaker 2: Thank you, Yes, thanks David. David Hellman, the former director 220 00:12:17,227 --> 00:12:19,627 Speaker 2: general of WAA. Of course, I mean there wouldn't be 221 00:12:19,667 --> 00:12:21,067 Speaker 2: too many people who know more about this sort of 222 00:12:21,067 --> 00:12:28,307 Speaker 2: thing than David Helman. Perhaps predictably, this has led to 223 00:12:28,907 --> 00:12:31,307 Speaker 2: quite a bit of backlash, particularly, i have to say, 224 00:12:31,347 --> 00:12:35,987 Speaker 2: from Jnicksoner's fellow tennis professionals, both on the fact that 225 00:12:36,787 --> 00:12:40,427 Speaker 2: the process seemed to happen quite quickly by comparison to 226 00:12:40,507 --> 00:12:43,587 Speaker 2: others where some tennis players have had to wait over 227 00:12:43,627 --> 00:12:48,027 Speaker 2: a year for their hearings. And while you can obviously 228 00:12:48,067 --> 00:12:52,467 Speaker 2: protest your provisional suspension and be allowed to play on 229 00:12:53,067 --> 00:12:55,387 Speaker 2: while the evidence has gathered, and while that you know 230 00:12:56,227 --> 00:13:01,147 Speaker 2: before you you have the hearing, this has happened, by 231 00:13:01,227 --> 00:13:04,747 Speaker 2: comparison to a lot of other cases which are of 232 00:13:04,747 --> 00:13:08,387 Speaker 2: a similar nature, pretty quickly five months between the positive 233 00:13:08,387 --> 00:13:11,147 Speaker 2: test and the herring and the verdict. As I say, 234 00:13:11,147 --> 00:13:14,707 Speaker 2: it's taken more than twice as long for other similar cases. 235 00:13:15,107 --> 00:13:18,467 Speaker 2: Nick Kurrios, who's never short of a word, has come 236 00:13:18,547 --> 00:13:22,347 Speaker 2: out quite strongly here. He took to social media and 237 00:13:22,667 --> 00:13:25,667 Speaker 2: this was Nick Curios's tweet. If we can still call 238 00:13:25,707 --> 00:13:31,147 Speaker 2: it that ridiculous, whether it was accidental or planned, you 239 00:13:31,227 --> 00:13:34,627 Speaker 2: get tested twice with a band steroid, you should be 240 00:13:34,667 --> 00:13:39,267 Speaker 2: gone for two years. Your performance was enhanced mash a 241 00:13:39,307 --> 00:13:43,507 Speaker 2: massage cream. Yeah, nice, says Nick Curios. Which is I 242 00:13:43,507 --> 00:13:46,667 Speaker 2: guess the Australian version of year right, the two we billboard. 243 00:13:49,267 --> 00:13:54,827 Speaker 2: I don't know that there's any suggestion of performance enhancement here. 244 00:13:56,067 --> 00:13:59,107 Speaker 2: One billionth of a gram. And that's like, guess why 245 00:13:59,107 --> 00:14:02,147 Speaker 2: I asked David the question about that is it feels 246 00:14:02,147 --> 00:14:04,547 Speaker 2: to me as though this is what's happened A hover 247 00:14:04,627 --> 00:14:06,987 Speaker 2: above this, and I think it was okay. This sounds 248 00:14:07,027 --> 00:14:12,267 Speaker 2: like a feasible explanation, right, and if it can be 249 00:14:12,347 --> 00:14:15,467 Speaker 2: proved through Affi Dayviord's and through evidence and that sort 250 00:14:15,467 --> 00:14:19,587 Speaker 2: of thing that yes, this spray that the guy who 251 00:14:19,627 --> 00:14:22,147 Speaker 2: did the massage used on his the cut on his 252 00:14:22,187 --> 00:14:27,587 Speaker 2: finger and then massaged Yarnick Sinner and the banned substance 253 00:14:27,587 --> 00:14:32,027 Speaker 2: found its way into his system. That sounds feasible. But 254 00:14:32,067 --> 00:14:34,467 Speaker 2: then as I'm saying it, I think to myself, it's 255 00:14:34,507 --> 00:14:36,227 Speaker 2: the kind of thing you'd say if you were trying 256 00:14:36,267 --> 00:14:40,267 Speaker 2: to make an excuse. You know, it's not exactly the 257 00:14:40,307 --> 00:14:46,547 Speaker 2: dog ate my homework, but it's maybe it is far fetched. 258 00:14:46,547 --> 00:14:51,307 Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know, Tim says Pinety. I 259 00:14:51,347 --> 00:14:54,267 Speaker 2: don't care what you say. Drugs and sport is cheating. No, 260 00:14:54,427 --> 00:14:56,867 Speaker 2: it's no, buts he should be banned rules or rules 261 00:14:56,907 --> 00:14:59,907 Speaker 2: what's good for everyone is good for him. Sounds like 262 00:14:59,987 --> 00:15:02,867 Speaker 2: favoritism to me. You've got to boot him out and 263 00:15:02,867 --> 00:15:05,147 Speaker 2: set an example. Drugs or no drugs. He's been found out. 264 00:15:05,187 --> 00:15:08,307 Speaker 2: He needs to be punished. Well, it is struck. I mean, 265 00:15:08,707 --> 00:15:11,867 Speaker 2: it's not beyond. It's not in dispute that it was 266 00:15:11,907 --> 00:15:14,627 Speaker 2: found in his system. It was found in a system. 267 00:15:14,667 --> 00:15:19,307 Speaker 2: This cost the bowl. But like I say, if, as 268 00:15:19,307 --> 00:15:21,587 Speaker 2: I said to David, if this is what's happened, if 269 00:15:21,627 --> 00:15:27,867 Speaker 2: he's unknowingly had this substance transferred into his bloodstream through 270 00:15:28,467 --> 00:15:31,147 Speaker 2: something which is no fault of his and with absolutely 271 00:15:31,147 --> 00:15:34,227 Speaker 2: no intent to enhance his performance, then there has to 272 00:15:34,227 --> 00:15:37,307 Speaker 2: be a method by which he is exonerated. He is, 273 00:15:37,507 --> 00:15:42,747 Speaker 2: you know, let off, because he hasn't done anything wrong, 274 00:15:42,787 --> 00:15:45,387 Speaker 2: has he He's just asked for a massage. He's fired 275 00:15:45,427 --> 00:15:49,907 Speaker 2: as mass house. By the way his trainer and his physio, 276 00:15:50,027 --> 00:15:53,627 Speaker 2: they've both been given the boot. Be interesting to see 277 00:15:53,467 --> 00:15:58,267 Speaker 2: the reception Yarnick Sinner gets at Flushing Meadows when the 278 00:15:58,387 --> 00:15:59,867 Speaker 2: US Open gets underway. He's got to be one of 279 00:15:59,907 --> 00:16:03,467 Speaker 2: the favorites. He's number one seed. Yeah, I think there's 280 00:16:03,467 --> 00:16:06,907 Speaker 2: a there's a bit of a bit of chat around 281 00:16:06,907 --> 00:16:10,867 Speaker 2: the professional tennis fraternity that there is definitely a double 282 00:16:10,907 --> 00:16:13,707 Speaker 2: standard at play here because he is who he is. 283 00:16:14,707 --> 00:16:17,867 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live 284 00:16:17,987 --> 00:16:21,267 Speaker 1: to News Talk Set B weekends from midday, or follow 285 00:16:21,307 --> 00:16:22,907 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.