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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack team podcast

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Speaker 1: from News Talks at be fubbing.

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Speaker 2: That is, when you combine your phone and snubbing, you

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Speaker 2: might have been guilty of fubbing some of the people

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Speaker 2: in your life. I know that I'm guilty of fubbing

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Speaker 2: people from time to time, and I know that people

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Speaker 2: close to me could occasionally be guilty of fubbing as well.

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Speaker 2: Our clinical psychologist Google Sutherland from Umbrella Well Being as

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Speaker 2: with us this morning morning a Google.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, good morning, Jack, and good to hear that you're

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Speaker 3: a self confessed fubber. Most of us will fub at times.

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Speaker 2: It does you just you fall into the trap. And

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Speaker 2: this is the great irony of the digital age. Right.

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Speaker 2: So phones have made us all that more connected with

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Speaker 2: the world, but at the same time, in some respects,

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Speaker 2: they make us all the more disconnected.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, I mean, yeah, there's many, many great things

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Speaker 3: about your phones and about being connected and everything that

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Speaker 3: goes with but fubbing is a real issue, I think,

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Speaker 3: particularly when we do it at home and we are,

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Speaker 3: you know, often our excuses, Oh I'm connecting with you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm connecting with my friends, almost from my workmates or

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Speaker 3: but actually in the process of connecting with with other

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Speaker 3: people via social media, where we're inadvertently ignoring the people

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Speaker 3: nearest and dearest to us. And we know that, particularly

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Speaker 3: for partners, that there's lots of benefits that people get

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Speaker 3: from from having a being in a supportive relationship with

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Speaker 3: their partner, and that can actually be undermined and weakened

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Speaker 3: a little bit if you're engaging in fubbing.

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Speaker 2: That's interesting and so so is it specifically when you are,

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Speaker 2: you know, on social media talking to other people, liking

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Speaker 2: posts and that kind of thing, or is it more

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Speaker 2: just if your partner is on their phone all the time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we shouldn't lay too much or we

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Speaker 3: can't lay it completely all the blame completely at the

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Speaker 3: door of of social mediams. But you know, social media.

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Speaker 3: But I think it's just magnified and highlighted by social media.

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Speaker 3: But for example, you know, seventy five percent of people

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Speaker 3: say that they choose to share their emotional struggles with

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Speaker 3: their partners their first port of call. And having a

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Speaker 3: good relationship, you know, good partner relationships really associated with

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Speaker 3: better well being and better work life balance. So partners

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Speaker 3: play a strong role in our well being and generally

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Speaker 3: and our well being at work, and inadvertently ignoring them

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Speaker 3: is probably to not only our detriment, but the detriment

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Speaker 3: of your relationship in the long term.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because so, like farthing has been linked to poor

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Speaker 2: equality of relationships. So or put, poor equality of relations

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Speaker 2: with your partner.

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Speaker 3: That's right, Yeah, poor equality of relationships, which is understandable

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Speaker 3: right if you're not if you're not investing in that

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Speaker 3: relationship regularly, then down also weirdly connected with partners reporting

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Speaker 3: a lower sense of self esteem about themselves. And that's

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Speaker 3: probably because linked there is sort of feeling ignored in

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Speaker 3: a relationship because you know, your partner's always on their

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Speaker 3: device talking to other people. Gosh, I must not really

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Speaker 3: be worth very much kind of thing, right, So you know,

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Speaker 3: it can have a detrimental effect both on your relationship

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Speaker 3: and on your own wellbeing and on your partner as well.

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Speaker 2: So what can people do about it?

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Speaker 3: Well, look, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I tend to be you know, a bit

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Speaker 3: black and white about things at times, and it could

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Speaker 3: easily go wow, I just don't use it ever, So

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Speaker 3: don't do that. I mean, that would be silly and

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Speaker 3: probably probably yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, But I think

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Speaker 3: my golden rule is often you know wherever you are

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Speaker 3: being in this. So if you are at home, you know,

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Speaker 3: be present at home, and if you're at work, be

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Speaker 3: present at work. Now that doesn't mean one hundred percent

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Speaker 3: of your time. You're always focused on that, but be

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Speaker 3: aware of where your your attention is and try to

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Speaker 3: be present wherever you are. Again, so if you're at

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Speaker 3: home with your partner, if you're at and you can

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Speaker 3: set some I don't know if you want to call

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Speaker 3: them rules, but you could set some kind of agreements

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Speaker 3: between you, like you know, I know lots of families

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Speaker 3: have the rule about no devices at the dinner table,

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Speaker 3: for example, and that's a really good one. There's lots

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Speaker 3: of benefits that come from eating a meal together. Some

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Speaker 3: people have an agreement that they don't use phones after

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Speaker 3: a certain time at night, you know, nine o'clock we're

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Speaker 3: going to put our phones away so that we can

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Speaker 3: just be together. And for partners, you know, you could

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Speaker 3: have something, well, let's not use our devices and Beard,

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Speaker 3: I'm sure there are other things that we can do

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Speaker 3: to connect and entertain ourselves. And Beard apart from being

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Speaker 3: on phone. Yeah, so those might be some I wouldn't

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Speaker 3: want to call them rules. I just you know, maybe

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Speaker 3: they can be agreements between each other around when and

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Speaker 3: how we use technology at home.

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Speaker 2: So both my wife and I are on our phones

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Speaker 2: a lot. You know, I'll cop to that. But one

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Speaker 2: thing I find is that actually, like carving out space,

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Speaker 2: it's not just carving out space when not to use phones,

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Speaker 2: but also carving out space when you can use phones

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Speaker 2: is a good you know, like you want you kind

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Speaker 2: of want a bit of yin and yang, a bit

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Speaker 2: of carrot and step kind of thing. And yeah, and

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Speaker 2: so like last night, for example, I know that a

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Speaker 2: way that my wife really de stresses at the end

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Speaker 2: of the day sometimes is just to muck around on

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Speaker 2: social media and look at her phone, look at funny

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Speaker 2: videos and that kind of thing. And I really like

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Speaker 2: listening to podcasts, and you know, it's kind of the

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Speaker 2: same thing that, you know, that's what I do and

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Speaker 2: that's what she does, and that's fine. And so last

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Speaker 2: night for about half an hour, I pot around the

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Speaker 2: house listening to podcasts and she was shilling on the

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Speaker 2: couch looking at videos and things. And then afterwards we

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Speaker 2: both put our phones away and were able to kind

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Speaker 2: of be really present with each other. But sometimes it

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Speaker 2: actually just I think, make it easier to have that,

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Speaker 2: you know, to draw a bit of a line in

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Speaker 2: the sand if you if you do, create a bit

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Speaker 2: of space for it as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, And I think you know what I like

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Speaker 3: there is that there's sort of an agreement about it. Hey,

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Speaker 3: you know, we both recognize that it's a useful thing

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Speaker 3: for us to do. We're using it for ourselves to

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Speaker 3: kind of stress and and you know, get rid of,

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Speaker 3: you know, wash away the dregs of the day. But

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Speaker 3: also you know, there's obviously you guys are then coming

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Speaker 3: back together that. Yeah, and I like the deliberate nature

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Speaker 3: about that rather than because I think the danger with

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Speaker 3: cell phones and social media, et cetera is that you

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Speaker 3: kind of you know, you go down that rabbit hole

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Speaker 3: and you look up and it's sort of been two

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Speaker 3: or three hours and you haven't kind of meant to

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Speaker 3: spend that time, but it just sort of slips away.

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Speaker 3: So I like that. I like the deliberateness there around. Hey, look,

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Speaker 3: let's use it for a discreete period and then let's

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Speaker 3: reconnect with one another, recognizing that both are important.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. I thank you so much. Too great to

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Speaker 2: chat as always. Google. Sutherland is a clinical psychologist with

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Speaker 2: Umbrella Welding. It's quarter past eleven.

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Speaker 1: For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, listen live

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Speaker 1: to News Talks ed B from nine am Saturday, or

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