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Speaker 1: Now obviously been a hell of a year for anyone

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Speaker 1: trying to do business with the US. Donald Trump's Bizuoka

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Speaker 1: trade tariffs are announced in April, and then we've been

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Speaker 1: dealing with a fallout and the uncertainty ever since. Now,

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Speaker 1: from tomorrow, New Zealand and US business leaders and diplomats

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Speaker 1: will get together for the US Business Summit. Professor Dan

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Speaker 1: Schneer from the University of California will give the keynote

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Speaker 1: speech on how to navigate Trump's America. Let's have a chat,

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Speaker 1: am Hi, Dan.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: The pleasure is all mine. Now, what is your number

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Speaker 1: one tip for how to navigate Trump's America?

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Speaker 2: I think the most important thing for any country's leaders,

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Speaker 2: both political and business leaders, to understand is that Donald Trump,

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Speaker 2: of course worked in the private sector for many, many

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Speaker 2: years before he ever ran for office. So business leaders,

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Speaker 2: while they have an impact with any US politician, are

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Speaker 2: going to have an even greater impact with Trump. Trump

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Speaker 2: and his administration. He'll pay attention to the politicians, He'll

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Speaker 2: pay a lot more attention to the nation's business leaders.

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Speaker 1: So a delegation I can think the South Africans did that,

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Speaker 1: didn't they where they rolled up with the president, but

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Speaker 1: then they had all of these They had a golfer

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Speaker 1: and they had business leaders. That's the approach to take.

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Speaker 2: Well, and it's not only for foreign countries. We're seeing

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Speaker 2: this within the US. The city of San Francisco, which

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Speaker 2: may be the most progressive, left leaning city in the

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Speaker 2: United States of America, when they were worried that Trump,

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Speaker 2: the Trump administration was going to send the Department of

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Speaker 2: Homeland Security into their streets, they didn't deploy their congressional delegation.

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Speaker 2: They sent business leaders. So the CEOs of some of

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Speaker 2: the largest tech companies in northern California contacted the White

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Speaker 2: House and they were able to achieve a much more

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Speaker 2: amenable solution than a lot of other cities around the

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Speaker 2: country did.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Now, obviously, I mean that's a fantastic idea, but

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Speaker 1: obviously there is political points to be scored also for

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Speaker 1: political leaders to be seen having a meeting with Donald Trump.

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Speaker 1: So if you had to send your prime ministerial president,

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Speaker 1: do you reckon you take the Keir Starma approach of fawning,

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Speaker 1: or do you take the Macron approach of just going

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Speaker 1: and being a big guy too well.

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Speaker 2: Mccrin basically hit some pretty fraud territory when he tried

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Speaker 2: the more frontal approach, and ultimately it worked out for

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Speaker 2: him because when push came to shove, Trump respected him

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Speaker 2: for pushing back more forcefully. But I'll say this, I

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Speaker 2: think you have an advantage here. If you look at

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Speaker 2: the five eyes country, you are the only one with

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Speaker 2: the center right leader. You're the only one with a

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Speaker 2: leader who both comes from the private sector and who

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Speaker 2: has center right political credentials. And so I feel like

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Speaker 2: he is uniquely positioned among these five countries to have

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Speaker 2: a conversation with Trump. Now I realized the first time

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Speaker 2: they talked it was about hair. It's justn't the best

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Speaker 2: way to get started. But I think it's the kind

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Speaker 2: of relationship that can be built on in a way

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Speaker 2: that many other international leaders have not been able to do.

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Speaker 1: All Right, So he needs to get some feist time

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Speaker 1: with Trump, doesn't.

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Speaker 2: He, No question about it. Here's the thing to remember

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Speaker 2: about Trump. He is the first US president ever to

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Speaker 2: not have served in prior political office and have never

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Speaker 2: been in the military, which means he's the only US

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Speaker 2: president ever who did not prepare for being president by

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Speaker 2: being part of a team. He's an individual actor. He

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Speaker 2: talks to people one on one and very quickly comes

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Speaker 2: to a conclusion about whether he respects them or not.

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Speaker 2: And I really do feel like there's a potential for

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Speaker 2: a very productive relationship here between two business leaders turned politicos.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so what's the beast we can expect though, because

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Speaker 1: at the moment we seem to be sort of just

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Speaker 1: coppying the base level of tariffs that we're not in

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Speaker 1: a favored position, nor are we in an unfavored position,

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Speaker 1: which is right in the middle of the pack. What

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Speaker 1: could we expect as a best case scenario?

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Speaker 2: Well, Trump, more than anything, whether you see it as

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Speaker 2: a compliment or a criticism, is an extremely transactional president.

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Speaker 2: I think for this country's leaders to able to explain

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Speaker 2: how he Trump and how his country benefits from the

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Speaker 2: relationship is the best way to catch his is the

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Speaker 2: best way to catch his attention. At this point, Trump

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Speaker 2: is beginning to realize the downside of the tariffs. As

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Speaker 2: I know you and many of your listeners know, He's

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Speaker 2: pulled back on some of the tariffs on food products

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Speaker 2: in order to try to address inflation in the United States,

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Speaker 2: and I think impressing upon him how a better relationship

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Speaker 2: on this front can be of help to him, that's

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Speaker 2: probably the best way to do.

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Speaker 1: We go really personal, do we say, hey, listen, if

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Speaker 1: you let our beef in at a like no tariff,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have a fantastic burger from McDonald's.

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Speaker 2: I would go almost that personal. Maybe you throw that,

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Speaker 2: maybe you're throw in McDonald's at the end. Yeah, but

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Speaker 2: you say, you keep on this current trajectory and the

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Speaker 2: people who are angriest with you about giving up on

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Speaker 2: the tariffs are going to be grateful for you for

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Speaker 2: confronting inflation head on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Dan, thank you so much. Is really interesting stuff

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Speaker 1: are really really interesting tips Professor Dean Schneer, political analyst

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Speaker 1: at the University of California. For more from Hither Duplassy

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Speaker 1: Allen Drive, listen live to news talks it'd be from

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Speaker 1: four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on IHEARDRATEDEO