1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Tris Shurson. Shurson willis PR with us tonight. Hey Trish, Hey, Ryan, 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: good to have you on as always. And Mike Munroe, 3 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: former chief of staff to just Sinda Adina's here too, Ho, Mike, 4 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: gooda Ryan, Now, what are your thoughts first of all 5 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: on rates cap. I mean, Sam has a point that 6 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 1: it's not that I mean, it's not a it's not 7 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 1: a long term solution and certainly not going to help 8 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: with infrastructure. Mike, Yeah, I think he's. 9 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 2: Got a point. You know. My concern here is Ryan 10 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,160 Speaker 2: that if we put in a cap, put a cap 11 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 2: in place, we just sort of kicked the can down 12 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 2: the road and some future council has to deal with 13 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 2: the you know, with the with the escalating costs which 14 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 2: which have been faced now, and that means, you know, 15 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 2: future rate payers have to deal with it, maybe our kids. 16 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 2: So so I agree with him, it's quite an artificial tool. 17 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:51,639 Speaker 2: And I just think we need to go back at 18 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 2: some point and just look at the whole model of 19 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 2: local government and how we operate it. We've been sort 20 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 2: of mucking around at the fringes for a long time now, 21 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 2: and we have this same arguments of generation after generation 22 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 2: it seems like maybe we need to sort of re 23 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 2: examine the model and how we do local government in 24 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 2: New Zealand and whether it's fit for purposes we go 25 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 2: into these times of enormous infrastructure costs sort of steering 26 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 2: us in the face. And I'd also say something about 27 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 2: the long term plans I think are really important because 28 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 2: where that's where you know, if we do those in 29 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 2: an open and transparent way, we can see where the 30 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 2: costs are going to be sort of a loader on 31 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 2: us over the next three, five, ten years. So I 32 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 2: think a greater emphasis on those plans being really transparent 33 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 2: would help as well. 34 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:39,680 Speaker 1: Trish, what is the core of the problem with councils? 35 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,759 Speaker 1: Are there too many voices? Are there too many people 36 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: at the table? What is it? 37 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 3: I agree with Mike that fundamentally the model is broken. 38 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 3: In my view, in a country of our size and 39 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 3: scale a we've got way too many councils. If you 40 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 3: looked at relative population sizes overseas, you would not have 41 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 3: anywhere near this. That leads to cost and complexity. The 42 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 3: issue for rate payers is the huge uncertainty that is 43 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 3: being caused by exponential rate rises. So just to give 44 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 3: you a feel for the numbers. There is a great 45 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 3: story by Jonathan Killick in the Sunday so Times in 46 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:23,399 Speaker 3: feb they went back and to have a look at 47 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 3: so in Wellington. That council has delivered rate increases of 48 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 3: twelve point eight, eight point eight, twelve point three and 49 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 3: eighteen point five percent in the last four years. The 50 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 3: projected increase means that that rate increase is going to 51 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 3: go up by more than one hundred and seventy five 52 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 3: percent over the next ten years. So you just can't 53 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 3: realistically expect people to be trying to pay a mortgage 54 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 3: and live in their own homes with wild rate increases like. 55 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: That, especially when you don't and Mike, people don't feel 56 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:05,639 Speaker 1: like well, not only do they not feel like it, 57 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: it's it's self evident they aren't getting more for it. 58 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: In fact, in a lot of cases, they're getting less. 59 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's why we need to go back and 60 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,079 Speaker 2: look at the model. You know, we've got to ask 61 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 2: some really big questions like take water, for example, is 62 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 2: water so important from a public health point of view 63 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 2: in terms of you know, clean water, wasteboaters, disposal, et cetera. 64 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 2: Maybe the states you look after that, maybe that a 65 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:31,799 Speaker 2: should be fully funded centrally in New Zealand, so that 66 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:34,639 Speaker 2: so that councils can go back to looking after the basics, 67 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 2: the bread and butter issues like you know, like your 68 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 2: rubbish collection and your footpaths and whatever. So if we 69 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 2: go on the same way, we're just going to have 70 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 2: the same pressure year after year because the cost of 71 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 2: running these cities and rebuilding these cities, especially the water infrastructure, 72 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 2: it's going to get higher and higher. So I just 73 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 2: don't see an end in sight if we just go 74 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 2: on the same old way. 75 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 3: In the meantime, I think there are a couple of 76 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 3: useful things that the government is doing. Don't forget that. 77 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 3: Number one, they are later this year introducing legislation that 78 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 3: will force councils to get back to basics, so that's 79 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 3: in an attempt to stop waste on stuff they shouldn't 80 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 3: be doing. And then number two, they will also every 81 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 3: year make a report available nationally, so if I'm a 82 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 3: rate payer in Auckland, I can go on and essentially 83 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 3: compare my rates and the value for money I'm getting 84 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 3: against someone in Wellington or christ Church. I think that 85 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 3: will be a useful tool for local for people voting 86 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 3: in local body elections to hold elected councilors to account 87 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 3: for the money that they're spending. 88 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, hey, we'll leave it here, guys, and come back 89 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: and just a second. Tricius and Mike Munroe on the 90 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: Huddle tonight. Tricias and Mike Munroe on the Huddle tonight, 91 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: thirteen away from six. Winston went pretty hard on Labor 92 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: during his State of the Nation speech at the weekend, 93 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: which was obviously trish, you know, intentional. Winston doesn't do 94 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: anything that he hasn't thought very carefully about. You know, 95 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: there often the polls, he's potentially a threat. Winston's just 96 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: reminding everyone, Hey, this is what this guy, this is 97 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: his record. 98 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree. I mean there's no surprises. I don't 99 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 3: think that he went after Labor, and I noted the 100 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 3: PM was asked about that at his post cabinet press 101 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 3: conference for instant and he was very positive about Winston 102 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 3: being the attack dog on Labor on Sunday. But I 103 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 3: do think that both Winston and the Prime Minister have 104 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 3: a point, and that is that it is outrageous what 105 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 3: happened under Labor, the waste, the mismanagement, and they have 106 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 3: left a massive hole that New Zealand has to climb 107 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:56,359 Speaker 3: out of. The problem for New Zealand First and National 108 00:05:56,360 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 3: an Act is that the electorate is very impatient at 109 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 3: the moment and they won't look kindly on keeping on 110 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 3: blaming labor. They'll say, well, hey, you know, you guys 111 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 3: have been in now for fifteen fifteen months, so it's 112 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 3: a it's a fine line to tread. I think. The 113 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 3: other interesting thing though about Winston's speech and Labor was 114 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 3: if you if you read it on face value, it's 115 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 3: essentially saying New Zealand First will not work with Labor. 116 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 3: He called them a bunch of unreformed losers, I think 117 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 3: if I'm quoting him correctly, So so that was interesting 118 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 3: this far out. Don't forget before the last election he 119 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 3: also ruled out working with labor, but we've never seen 120 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 3: it this far out. 121 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think specifically Hipkins he ruled out this 122 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: morning as well. Mike, does does this any of this 123 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 1: surprise you? And do you think is this a sign 124 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: that Winston actually is a little bit worried about labor? 125 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, right now, Labor's living in his head rent free. 126 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 2: It seems actually look that this was the orders a 127 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 2: State of the Nation speech, and that was actually false advertising. 128 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 2: It wasn't a state of the Nation speech. It was 129 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 2: the start of the twenty twenty six Labor election campaign. 130 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 2: So sorry, folks, it might only be some March twenty 131 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 2: twenty five, but the twenty six campaign is underway. Look, 132 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 2: you know, so much has been going on Ryan under 133 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 2: this a nept government, with treaty issues and failing health 134 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 2: services and the bunging over the Cook Strait fairies, the 135 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 2: school lunches issues. I guess Winston's fair is that people 136 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 2: are starting to forget about why they rejected labor at 137 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 2: the end of twenty twenty three, so he's just wanting 138 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 2: to give them a refresher on recent history, and he 139 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 2: chose this audience in this state to do that. The 140 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 2: other thing about the speech that amused me is that 141 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 2: about seven days ago we saw Winston the statesman in Washington, DC, 142 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 2: doing a great job as the country's foreign affairs minister, 143 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 2: acting like a statesman, and he comes home and sort 144 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 2: of lowers himself to this level of ranting on about 145 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 2: woke issues, this sort of pathetic, weird obsession that the 146 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 2: political right have with the state of the world. It 147 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 2: just showed you the two faces of Winston, so you know, 148 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 2: in the course of a few days now, and like you, 149 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 2: in many ways it shows you why it's such a 150 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 2: good politician. He can sort of switch from one to 151 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 2: the other quite quickly. 152 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, do you think it's a weird obsession. I mean, 153 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: clearly it's got some it's got some push through with 154 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: in America at least I don't know about here, but 155 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: I well, it's almost like a myth that that politicians 156 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: talk about it and therefore it exists. I think people 157 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: do genuinely feel aggrieved about something, don't they. 158 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:38,959 Speaker 2: Well, work has just become synonymous with sort of lefties 159 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 2: or liberals, and and you know he's appealing to all 160 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 2: those sort of high ground people and are the racist 161 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 2: and reactionaries and those with you know, a great intolerance 162 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 2: of all things Mardi, that's who he's talking to. That's 163 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 2: a support base. So I think when he uses woke, Yeah, 164 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 2: he's talking more about the sort of lefty liberal agenda, 165 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 2: which he doesn't like, and he's imploring his supporters not 166 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 2: to lie as well. 167 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 1: Trish the stadium, which where would you prefer? Would you prefer? 168 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 1: We jazz up and tart up Eden Park or head 169 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 1: down to the waterfront. 170 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 3: Well, well, you know, no one in Auckland. Yeah, no 171 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 3: one in Auckland would argue that trying to put lipstick 172 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 3: on Eden Park is the soul of New zeal That 173 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 3: Auckland needs to be a world class city. And I 174 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 3: was reflecting the other day on the comments of one 175 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 3: of the big ossie sports guys who came over and 176 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 3: had a look at the new stadium in christ Church, 177 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 3: and he said, isn't this fantastic purpose built covered roof. 178 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,959 Speaker 3: You can have sports in here all year round anywhether 179 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 3: all of the transport links are here, you can walk 180 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 3: quickly into town and get a drink. And I thought, 181 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 3: you know, Auckland should have been first to have a 182 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 3: facility like that. 183 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: So basically, goodbye, goodbye Eden Park. They've wasted all of 184 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:57,320 Speaker 1: those free tickets inviting all of those boring counselors to 185 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: come to all of their concerts. Do you agree to 186 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: build something new? 187 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think it's disgraceful that Auckland City doesn't 188 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 2: have a world class stadium, especially a rugby stadium. I mean, 189 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 2: you know, we are the rugby powerhouse of the world 190 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 2: largely still and it's our national sport and big rugby 191 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 2: games are going to be a huge part of Auckland's 192 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 2: sporting life for the phyeseeable future and so it's about 193 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:22,439 Speaker 2: time they got on and made a decision about it. 194 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 2: And again I just can't believe this off fluffing around 195 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 2: about this. You know, I was working for the Helen 196 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 2: Clark Laby government back in nearly two thousands when there's 197 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 2: a huge debate and I thought we got very close 198 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 2: actually to make a decision about building a new flash 199 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 2: waterfront stadium in Auckland. But that seems like ancient history now. 200 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 2: That must have been fifteen sixteen years ago, and here 201 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 2: we are still going around and around in circles trying 202 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 2: to work out where the best location is and what 203 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 2: the sort of dimensions should be. So yeah, my message 204 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 2: to Aalkland is, for christ' sake make a decision. Is 205 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 2: to get ahead and do it. 206 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 1: Trishess in a mc run right. Thanks guys for more 207 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: from Heather Duplassy Allen Drive. Listen Live News Talk se 208 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: B from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.