1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,120 Speaker 1: I predicted yesterday we got the trigger pulled on the 2 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: independent investigation by the Public Service Commission into the Maory 3 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 1: Party Mariah allegations. We also have just if you've lost count, 4 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: a police investigation, the Stats of New Zealand and investigation, 5 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: Electoral Commission and Privacy Commission investigation as well, so count's 6 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 1: five investigations. Political scientist Grant Duncan is with us on this. Grant, 7 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: very good morning to you. 8 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:22,799 Speaker 2: Good morning mine. 9 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: It's a lot of investigations. Is this because it's very 10 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: serious or they're all covering their bases? 11 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 2: Well, a bit of both, I would say, and so 12 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:32,919 Speaker 2: it's probably just as well that the Public Services Commission 13 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 2: has been brought and to bring all of this together, 14 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:39,599 Speaker 2: we hope and get some clarity as to what's gone on. 15 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,160 Speaker 1: Talk us through what the Public Service Commission does, who 16 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: they are, do they have the power to be able 17 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: to do what they need to do? 18 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 2: Potentially, Yes, What the Public Service Commission is really the 19 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 2: central agency of government that deals with matters to do 20 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 2: with employment and as the leader of the public service 21 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 2: itself so to speak, So it does have the coordinating 22 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 2: role within the public service and it can be given 23 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 2: the powers to undertake an appropriate kind of independent investigation. 24 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: So they can subpoena, they can dig up evidence, all 25 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: of those sort of things you'd expect them to do. 26 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 2: I believe they can. 27 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: Yes, okay, because what we've got here is rules broken 28 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: allegedly versus laws broken. And does that because of that 29 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 1: get a little bit complicated. 30 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 2: Well, the complication is that it seems that the Maria 31 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 2: has been used for different purposes in relation to the 32 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 2: census to COVID nineteen as well as acting as an 33 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 2: election polling place. Also particularly the chief executive of the 34 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 2: MARII was also then went on to be a candidate 35 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 2: in the local elections for Tamaki Makoto. And so you 36 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 2: have a number of different functions around the same place, 37 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 2: and some people wearing more than one hat, shall we say, 38 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,239 Speaker 2: And of course allegations that census data in particular may 39 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 2: have been misused, and that's really serious because that gets 40 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 2: to the heart of our confidence and the privacy of 41 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 2: that data. 42 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: It most certainly does. And so if that sort of 43 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: nefarious activity took place, that's But if you go back 44 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: to the beginning, if you're a Mariah and you know 45 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 1: Mariah is the center of the community, and they go, look, 46 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: we'll do some census, we'll do some vaccine, and by 47 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: the way, why don't we be an a voting point. 48 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: None of that is untoward in and of itself, is it. 49 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 2: Well, it all sounds hunky dory exactly. But the trouble is, 50 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 2: of course that some of these functions allegedly may have 51 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 2: gotten mixed up, and particularly possibility of the use of 52 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 2: census data for election campaigning and also possibly allegedly for 53 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 2: attempting to persuade people to switch from the general to 54 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 2: the Mali role. All of those questions, of course, should 55 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:10,799 Speaker 2: be private, conscientious choices by the individuals concerned, and so 56 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 2: this mixing up of census and COVID related functions with 57 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 2: election campaigning, as if the allegations are true, is completely 58 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 2: inappropriate exactly. 59 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: Grunt appreciate it very much. Grunt duncan political scientists with 60 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 1: us this morning. 61 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 2: For more from News Talks B listen live on air 62 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 2: or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you 63 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 2: go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.