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Speaker 1: We've heard so much in the past couple of years

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Speaker 1: about the woeful state of the nation's infrastructure, from dilapidated

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Speaker 1: roads to broken pipes.

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Speaker 2: We can't even seem to get our act together to

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Speaker 2: secure new ferries for the Cook Straight crossing.

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Speaker 1: But there is one particular infrastructure bright spot, ultra fast broadband.

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Speaker 2: This week on the Business of Tech Powered by two Degrees,

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Speaker 2: Deloitte's economists walk us through their new analysis which suggests

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Speaker 2: we've already received a thirty one billion dollar boost from

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Speaker 2: having access to high speed internet available to eighty seven

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Speaker 2: percent of the country, and how we get add a

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Speaker 2: further one hundred and sixty three billion dollars to the

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Speaker 2: economy over the next decade, all thanks to that fiber

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Speaker 2: in the ground.

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Speaker 1: He has some big numbers there, but the digital divide,

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Speaker 1: a gap between fiber availability and uptake, and the slow

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Speaker 1: adoption of digital technologies among our small businesses could see

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Speaker 1: us leave billions in economic gains on the table.

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Speaker 2: I'm Peter Griffin and I'm Ben Moore and soon you're

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Speaker 2: here from Lisa Vandermev and Mayo ash Prasad on the

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Speaker 2: UFB dividend.

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Speaker 1: But first being you and our Business Desk colleague Garth Bray,

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Speaker 1: a familiar face too many from his time as a

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Speaker 1: reporter on tvented fair Go program, have been looking at

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Speaker 1: the latest iPhone sixteen devices from Apple. Given this is

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Speaker 1: a really big update for Apple, I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of listeners will be keen to hear what the two

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Speaker 1: of you make about it. So what you had two

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Speaker 1: different models you split between the two of.

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Speaker 2: You, That's right. I've been using the iPhone sixteen Pro Max,

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Speaker 2: the big one at the big old Boy, and Garth's

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Speaker 2: been using the sixteen base model, and he is upgrading

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Speaker 2: from an iPhone eight as you will hear, so a

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Speaker 2: bit of a big step. I previously was using a

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Speaker 2: review unit of the fifteen Pro, so not that much

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Speaker 2: of a difference for me. Also, obviously, I'm a bit

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Speaker 2: of a I'm not a I wouldn't call myself power user,

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Speaker 2: but I do heavily use my phone and lots of

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Speaker 2: it's different features, whereas Garth is more of a gentle

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Speaker 2: kind of user of the iPhone ecosystem, so you know,

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Speaker 2: things like having to talk them into using face IDs.

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Speaker 2: This is definitely an interesting conversation that we get to have.

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Speaker 2: We called it comparing apples and you can have a

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Speaker 2: listen to that.

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Speaker 3: Now, this is very exciting, Garth, you've agreed to join us.

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Speaker 2: Obviously you're Garth Bray. I'm Ben Moore. I'm the host

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Speaker 2: of the Business of Tech podcast and a tech editor

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Speaker 2: at Business Desk.

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Speaker 4: And I'm a roving investigative reporter and a little bit

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Speaker 4: of a new when it comes to new apples. And

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Speaker 4: so when being you said you could get your hands

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Speaker 4: on a new iPhone sixteen for me to have a

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Speaker 4: try with, I was like, this is.

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Speaker 2: My chance, this is my chance step into the twenty twenties. Yeah, welcome,

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Speaker 2: because you were coming up from an iPhone eight? Is

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Speaker 2: that right?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? And I would have to say, straight off the mark,

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Speaker 4: where's the button? Where's the button gone? The thing about

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Speaker 4: that button that I loved on my iPhone hate was

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Speaker 4: it's just so convenient you click on that. It does

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Speaker 4: so much and it's got the touch ID, which is

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Speaker 4: something I would really want to break into with you

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Speaker 4: in this if you like, like definite where is that gone?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's actually quite an interesting one. And that's

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Speaker 2: something that you probably here to people talk about a

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Speaker 2: fair amount because there are ways of doing touch ID

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Speaker 2: without that button, but Apple has decided no face ID

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Speaker 2: or passcode. That's your kind of lot. So that's kind

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Speaker 2: of what we're going to be doing, is basically talking

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Speaker 2: about what it's like to use the new Apple sixteen.

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Speaker 2: I've been using the sixteen Pro Max, which is kind

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Speaker 2: of the big boy does everything, has everything. You've been

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Speaker 2: using the sixteen base model, and I don't think there's

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Speaker 2: a huge amount of difference in general, but you've also

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Speaker 2: only been using it for a few days at this point.

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Speaker 2: First of all, when you first unboxed it, how did

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Speaker 2: it feel compared to your eight?

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean it's bigger obviously for a start, even

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Speaker 4: the base model is larger, and just the way it

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Speaker 4: immediately kind of booted up, ran through the languages, it

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Speaker 4: all felt very intuitive. And I've got to say I

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Speaker 4: spent probably most of Saturday morning just sitting there tooling

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Speaker 4: across from one to the other. But the whole process

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Speaker 4: of shifting from one to another, I'd forgotten how seamless

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Speaker 4: these guys make this. Compared to my son who got

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Speaker 4: the donation of the old iPhone eight, he spent probably

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Speaker 4: a few few hours trying to put stuff across from

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Speaker 4: an Android phone. And maybe it's something that people who

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Speaker 4: regularly change phones wouldn't necessarily notice because it's a bit

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Speaker 4: more incremental. But when you've got like years with the

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Speaker 4: stuff there, it all just went straight across. Yeah, with

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Speaker 4: a few exceptions.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, there are a few exceptions. And as somebody

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Speaker 2: who does regularly change my phone and also regularly changes

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Speaker 2: so I also run an Android for work purposes, I

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Speaker 2: do actually much much prefer their changeover of your iPhone

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Speaker 2: your Apple phones, partially because Android has so many different manufacturers.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, iPhone definitely does the best thing. The biggest

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Speaker 2: frustration for me was getting a new iPhone is having

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Speaker 2: to reconnect all of my cards.

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Speaker 4: Ah, but so frustrating. This is a plus minus for me. Okay,

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Speaker 4: so yep, it was a hassle. But the whole thing

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Speaker 4: of putting those cards over, I think it's like a detox.

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Speaker 4: It's like a choice. So you sit there and go,

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Speaker 4: hang on, this is the credit card that I'm being

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Speaker 4: asked to add to this wallet and approve, And this

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Speaker 4: is the credit card that I've taken out of my

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Speaker 4: physical wallet because I'm gen X and still actually have

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Speaker 4: a wallet, and I I've wrapped it up in a

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Speaker 4: series of post it notes, and each one of them

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Speaker 4: says do you really need this? Do you really really

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Speaker 4: need this? And now being asked to put it on

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Speaker 4: my phone, I'll go, huh, actually no, no I won't.

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Speaker 4: So I see it as a plus.

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Speaker 2: You're right, it does have that. That is good. But

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Speaker 2: if you're like me and you have like more debit cards,

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Speaker 2: then you probably should and you kind of use having

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Speaker 2: different debit cards for budgeting because they're so easy to

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Speaker 2: spin up these days. And then if you're using a

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Speaker 2: watch I'm also reviewing the series ten watch, you also

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Speaker 2: need to do it all again pretty much.

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Speaker 4: To be fair, I mean, it's it's people's money we're

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Speaker 4: talking about there, right, so you want a pretty high

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Speaker 4: standard there. But I'm just a little bit horrified to

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Speaker 4: you how many debit cards you've got. You know, the fees,

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Speaker 4: the fees alone are going to be keeping you broke.

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Speaker 2: Well no, we Yeah, it's probably stupid, but I tend

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Speaker 2: to go, I tend to have really good ideas and

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Speaker 2: then go, this will help with organization, and then end

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Speaker 2: up with like a million email addresses and debit cards.

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Speaker 2: Face ID, I haven't done face ID. Do I need

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Speaker 2: to do face idace ID Well, I mean that depends

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Speaker 2: how much do you like putting passwords into your phone?

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Speaker 4: Well, this is the thing. Every time, every single thing

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Speaker 4: now going you know, jumping into what's it, remember the corde,

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Speaker 4: jumping into your banking app, remembering that pin code, every

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Speaker 4: transaction that just used to be put your your thumb

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Speaker 4: on the bottom, and now it's like it's not there.

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Speaker 4: And you mentioned there are ways to do it, because

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Speaker 4: I know talking to friends that there are some Android

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Speaker 4: phones like Samsung one that will just pick it up

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Speaker 4: through some almost spectral process right on the screen.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, you put a ghost inside the phone and

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Speaker 2: then you can No, they do have underscreen fingerprint readers,

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Speaker 2: so you can put your thumb on the screen and

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Speaker 2: it can read it through there. You also can some

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Speaker 2: of them have the fingerprint reader on the side button.

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Speaker 2: But Apple, I think one of the things is they

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Speaker 2: don't want to put the physical technology in the phone.

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Speaker 2: They want to cut down on space, They want to

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Speaker 2: cut down on complexity on the actual board itself, and

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Speaker 2: so they would rather use face IDs. There's less burden

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Speaker 2: of actual physical stuff they need. That's just my hunch.

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Speaker 4: I think they just want us looking at the phone more.

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Speaker 2: I think they probably want us looking at the phone

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Speaker 2: more as well. Definitely, yeah right.

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Speaker 4: And that's just like queuing there then.

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Speaker 2: But it's it's pretty great Apple ladies. Apple's face idea

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Speaker 2: is really easy to use, very intuitive, works ninety nine

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Speaker 2: percent of the time, as long as you're okay with

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Speaker 2: you know, having their your biometric data stored on your phone,

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Speaker 2: and that's okay.

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Speaker 4: I think after years on the Telly, it's probably already

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Speaker 4: out there anywhere. Look, Okay, for next time, I will

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Speaker 4: try face ID and I will give you some updates

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Speaker 4: on how that works for me. But I'm still not

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Speaker 4: sure about Siri. Do I need Suri in my life?

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Speaker 2: So this is where we start getting into Apple Intelligence.

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Speaker 2: So at the moment, what we've got with Siri is

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Speaker 2: still a bit clunky, not as good as some of

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Speaker 2: the competition out there in terms of picking stuff up

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Speaker 2: or reacting to what you're saying. But in the eighteen

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Speaker 2: point one update iOS eighteen point one, we should be

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Speaker 2: getting Apple Intelligence, and part of that will be powering

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Speaker 2: Siri with a lot more contextual understanding and ability to

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Speaker 2: respond to you, as well as some other features which

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Speaker 2: are pretty cool at the moment, I am okay with Siri.

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Speaker 2: She's she and I or he and I in my

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Speaker 2: phone the Irish man that I have answering.

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Speaker 4: To me follow I'm deliciously.

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Speaker 2: Exactly here, and I get on pretty well. My wife

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Speaker 2: and Siri do not get on.

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Speaker 1: Well at all.

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Speaker 2: She really struggles to get Siri to respond to her.

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Speaker 2: I don't know whether that's a training thing or if

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Speaker 2: it's an accent thing, because my accent's a bit less

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Speaker 2: kary than hers. Probably, So I would be very interested

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Speaker 2: for you to give Siri a go as it is

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Speaker 2: now and see how useful it is.

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Speaker 4: We can check some of that stuff out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're gonna go see what you think.

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Speaker 4: So the other thing I think is that continuing that

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Speaker 4: theme of like choices that you're asked to make, like

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Speaker 4: will I give my face to this or will I

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Speaker 4: sign up that card? Little stuff like you're going through

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Speaker 4: an emergency call organ donation. Yeah, I'm now being asked

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Speaker 4: to consider whether or not I'm an organ donor, and

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Speaker 4: I'm thinking this might be set up later for me.

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Speaker 4: It's kind of like, Okay, that's an interesting choice. So

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Speaker 4: I'm I'm very keen on that idea of any time

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Speaker 4: you step from one platform to another or even a

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Speaker 4: new little piece, it's a good chance to look at

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Speaker 4: how it affects all the parts of your life and

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Speaker 4: whether you could be doing it be and maybe whether

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Speaker 4: there's some underlying choices that you need to reflect on.

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Speaker 4: So that's for me. It was a transformational experience in

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Speaker 4: many ways.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I can imagine, and like I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: as somebody who does it so frequently, I just do

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Speaker 2: it on autopilot now tic tic yes, yes, yes, have

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Speaker 2: my heart. I don't care to be honest, like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: maybe I should stop and actually take some time to

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Speaker 2: think about to do a little digital cleanse and actually

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Speaker 2: go through and look at everything. But it's just so

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Speaker 2: unwieldly at this point. It is so thoroughly integrated with

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Speaker 2: my life. I've got apps on there from a million

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Speaker 2: years ago I never use and.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I guess, look, okay, it's it's not the

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Speaker 4: same as moving the entire contents of your house with

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Speaker 4: you when you go and not sort of downtizing or whatever.

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Speaker 4: I think I had about sixty point one eight gig

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Speaker 4: of stuff that pourted from one to the other, which

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Speaker 4: I'm just thinking back once upon a time would have

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Speaker 4: taken forever and literally was like I think I went

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Speaker 4: away and made a cup of coffee and.

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Speaker 5: It was just about that.

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Speaker 2: It's incredible, isn't it.

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Speaker 4: And just the way it sort of happens in such proximity.

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Speaker 4: It's kind of increasingly the way that I don't know,

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Speaker 4: I would imagine technology should work. It's just finally it's

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Speaker 4: happening without the need to plug stuff in and connect

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Speaker 4: it and all that kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: I think that's pretty What makes Apple kind of special

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Speaker 2: is the lack of friction, you know, that is really

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Speaker 2: what they're all about, that user intuitiveness, user interface.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, I found it really interesting that transferring your

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Speaker 4: phone number is like almost about the fifth or sixth

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Speaker 4: It's so down the list. This is a phone, you know,

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Speaker 4: originally its purpose was to ring people, and there's some

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Speaker 4: way down the list we get to, Oh, by the way,

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Speaker 4: if you've got a phone number, you might want to

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Speaker 4: chuck it in. Now, at what point are we just

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Speaker 4: not going to have phone numbers anymore?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really interesting question. I think that a

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Speaker 2: phone number has become more of a unique identifier than

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Speaker 2: anything else, because people if you have like FaceTime, people

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Speaker 2: can ring you using your email address. Realistically, we don't

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Speaker 2: ring people. We don't talk in the same way anymore.

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Speaker 2: We don't talk using resonance. That's kind of sent down

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Speaker 2: copper wires. It's digital. Things get turned into a digital

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Speaker 2: format and sense to you digitally. So the idea of

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Speaker 2: a phone number where it's trying to figure out which

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Speaker 2: exchange to go through is kind of obsolete, But as

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Speaker 2: a number that is a unique identifier for you still

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Speaker 2: very useful and will probably be used as we move

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Speaker 2: forward into the digital identity world as well, which is

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Speaker 2: where things like having your organ donation status on your phone.

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Speaker 2: You know that could be now when we get to

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Speaker 2: digital identity that can be linked to your driver's license,

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Speaker 2: can be linked to other forms of IDA, and it

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Speaker 2: will all be kind of integrated into this digital morass

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Speaker 2: that defines you. I guess it's a billing point right

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Speaker 2: for most bats. This is who we're seeing the bill to,

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Speaker 2: so they want to kind of maintain that connection to

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Speaker 2: some extent.

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Speaker 4: But surely there must, like you say, to your point

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Speaker 4: where you just don't really need it anymore. You can

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Speaker 4: get by without it. There's a lot to consider here,

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Speaker 4: and so I don't want to try and cram it

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Speaker 4: all into our first chat, but it feels like we've

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Speaker 4: got we've got some solid chances to try and help

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Speaker 4: me understand technology. I feel you know the stuff backwards.

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Speaker 4: And this is why I'm very, very glad to have

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Speaker 4: your expertise at my disposal here, because I would say, like,

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Speaker 4: not knowing what goes on inside a phone doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 4: hold people back, but it might hold them back from going, Oh,

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Speaker 4: do I really want to spend like another fifteen hundred

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Speaker 4: bucks or something or a whole lot extra on this,

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Speaker 4: But I guess I'm interested to explore all the things

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Speaker 4: that I didn't realize the phone could do and in

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Speaker 4: ways that it might sort of help sort of make

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Speaker 4: life a bit more simple.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm really interested to hear what you think, in

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Speaker 2: particular of some of the sixteen specific features like having

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Speaker 2: a camera button at your disposal, or how often do

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Speaker 2: you use the camera button as you start to use

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Speaker 2: the phone more, what other kind of bits and pieces

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Speaker 2: in the sixteen compared to the eight you're finding quite

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Speaker 2: useful and interesting?

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Speaker 4: And it sent me all these things like, hey, you

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Speaker 4: can get three months Apple TV so you can see

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Speaker 4: how constantly they're using ways to flick you some insurance,

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Speaker 4: flick you some extra plans, and it's really just a

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Speaker 4: gateway drug to all the things that they offer.

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Speaker 2: There's a reason that Apple really have a decent services

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Speaker 2: revenue as well as their product revenue. So you can

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Speaker 2: definitely see how they.

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Speaker 4: Want to keep that going on. More on that in

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Speaker 4: the next one, maybe, maybe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much for taking the time to

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Speaker 2: chat with us, Garth, and thank you guys for joining us.

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Speaker 1: Interesting Ben. You know, we usually because we're upgrading our

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Speaker 1: phones a bit more often are going from you know,

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Speaker 1: an iPhone fifteen to sixteen, or an S twenty three

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Speaker 1: Samsung Galaxy to a twenty four. Garth has skipped quite

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Speaker 1: a few generations and quite confronting for him not to

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Speaker 1: have a physical button on a phone. It's just something

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Speaker 1: we take for granted now, but actually for a long

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Speaker 1: time that was a really cool feature off the iPhone.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and the thing that he pointed out about touch

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Speaker 2: id and his love for touch ID, which I actually

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Speaker 2: remember missing when I first upgraded. But I've become very

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Speaker 2: used to face ID. But one very exciting thing is

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Speaker 2: that I'm not one of those people who dives into

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Speaker 2: beta operating systems. I tend to wait for the full release.

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Speaker 2: And today I woke up this morning and my phone

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Speaker 2: said eighteen point one is ready for download. That's going

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Speaker 2: to be Apple Intelligence. So I haven't had time to

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Speaker 2: do that the OS upgrade yet, but hopefully after this

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Speaker 2: conversation today, I will upgrade it to Apple Intelligence, And

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Speaker 2: so next time Garth and I have a chat, I'll

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Speaker 2: have a lot more to say.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. For me, that's the one thing I really want

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Speaker 1: to see. I know they have great hardware, a great

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Speaker 1: operating system, but the one thing that might get me

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Speaker 1: across from Android into the Apple camp is all of

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Speaker 1: these built in free features that come as part of

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Speaker 1: Apple Intelligence. And we're talking about things like tools to

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Speaker 1: allow you to edit and so rise your emails, text

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Speaker 1: editing tools across the iPhone, the ability to automatically transcribe

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Speaker 1: and record conversations on the phone. That's really valuable. But

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Speaker 1: it'll be interesting to see what Garth makes if the

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Speaker 1: AI powered Siri when that comes along. He's obviously been

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Speaker 1: using it to some effect, but that's potentially going to

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Speaker 1: be quite a big change in the iPhone as well.

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Speaker 1: When they have generative AI underpinning Siri that's able to

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Speaker 1: cross a number of apps on your phone and give

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Speaker 1: you a lot more value in terms of it being

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Speaker 1: able to find information on your device and control menus

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Speaker 1: and the like. That's what Apple is talking about with

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Speaker 1: Apple Intelligence, but haven't seen it in the wild yet.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So we'll probably have part two of my series with

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Speaker 2: Garth and the New Year, so stay tuned for that,

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Speaker 2: And in the meantime, let's head over to our featured guests.

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Speaker 2: As I said before, we've got Lisa van der merv

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Speaker 2: andsh Prasad from consulting firm Deloitte. Lisa is a lead

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Speaker 2: partner at Deloitte Access Economics and former Commerce Commission economist,

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Speaker 2: and Mayo Rash as an Associate director and senior economist

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Speaker 2: at Deloitt Access Economics, and he also did a length

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Speaker 2: at the ComCom.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Then you report Unleashing the Power of Digital Fiber Infrastructure

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Speaker 1: in New Zealand is probably the first in depth look

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Speaker 1: at what our five point five billion dollar investment in

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Speaker 1: ultrafast broadband has returned to the country and what the

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Speaker 1: spin offs might be in the next decade. As we

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Speaker 1: enter the AI era.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot to unpack with this, I mean, considered

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Speaker 2: one of the most successful projects in New Zealand's history

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Speaker 2: in terms of what it has actually been able to

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Speaker 2: deliver to its citizenry. So here's that interview. Peter speaking

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Speaker 2: to Lisa and Mayor Rash from Deloitte.

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Speaker 1: Lisa and Mayor Esh, Welcome to the Business of Tech.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for coming on.

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Speaker 6: Well, thank you for the opportunity to be she some

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Speaker 6: insights from our recent report.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I likewise thank you for having us on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you've just done this really interesting report, a

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Speaker 1: retrospective report in some sense, looking back at what we've

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Speaker 1: achieved with the ultra fast broadband network. Now that was

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Speaker 1: sort of designed and thought off and the politicians really

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Speaker 1: got behind that way back in two thousand and nine.

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Speaker 1: Construction started in twenty ten. This was back in the

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Speaker 1: Key government. We're now in twenty twenty four. So let's

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Speaker 1: just break down. First, break down the numbers for us

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Speaker 1: in terms of looking back to I think twenty twelve

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Speaker 1: the research covers to twenty twenty three. What did it achieve?

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Speaker 6: Firstly, maybe just stepping back a little bit, so I've

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Speaker 6: been Peter, like you I've been part of the Fiber

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Speaker 6: journey since they won while I was working at the

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Speaker 6: COMMAS Commission, I mean, even thinking about regulation, what does

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Speaker 6: the design look like? At the start there was quite

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Speaker 6: a key focus just on a fly and from his

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Speaker 6: supply side perspective. We then conducted in twenty twelve at

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Speaker 6: demand site studying because demand at that point in time

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Speaker 6: was still so uncertain. Just reflecting back on that is,

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Speaker 6: if I look at the fiber roll out today, it's

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Speaker 6: probably one of the most successful examples of a large

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Speaker 6: scale public private partnership that we have in New Zealand.

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Speaker 6: So in that context, we took it upon ourselves to

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Speaker 6: do this report and as you say, first consider what

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Speaker 6: are the benefits today, what are the benefits in the future,

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Speaker 6: and what actions do we need to take to achieve

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Speaker 6: that benefit.

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Speaker 5: The way we looked at it was, you know, measure

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Speaker 5: how fiber has better enabled us to combine now know

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Speaker 5: how our our labor are capital to better produce goods

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Speaker 5: and services. So what we've what we found is that

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Speaker 5: between twenty twelve and twenty twenty three, the productivity uplift

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Speaker 5: I mean GDP terms is thirty one billion, so quite

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Speaker 5: a significant amount, and you know, in twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 5: just in particular, the productivity uplift was eight point eight billion,

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Speaker 5: so recently significant amounts of productivity uplift to date as

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Speaker 5: a result of the fiber network.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that really interested me. In twenty twenty three

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Speaker 1: eight billion odd and economic uplift there it seems to

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Speaker 1: be is this an acceleration. What explains that just in

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Speaker 1: one year we've got almost a quarter of that economic

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Speaker 1: uplift is that just because uptake is accelerating.

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Speaker 6: It is around uptake, it is around access, and it

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Speaker 6: is around speed, but it's also coupled with the development

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Speaker 6: of new applications and innovations, and that is driving the

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Speaker 6: productivity benefits. That is a result that we see in

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Speaker 6: twenty twenty.

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Speaker 5: Three when the network's being rolled out, obviously, you know,

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Speaker 5: we're necessarily going to see the benefits. But once uptake

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Speaker 5: increased and applications started getting developed on that connection, that's

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Speaker 5: when we started seeing the productivity uplift. And that's why

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Speaker 5: you see more of the impact and the latter period

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Speaker 5: because that's really when people started connecting and using and

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Speaker 5: developing applications. And I think productivity as a result of

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Speaker 5: the fiber network.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you pointed out in there. I think there's

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Speaker 1: been about a five point five billion dollar investment in

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Speaker 1: the UFB network between Orus and the other fiber providers

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Speaker 1: have obviously invested a lot of money. We've had at

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Speaker 1: least one point five billion taxpayer dollars in the form

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Speaker 1: of loans and investment went into that as well. So

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Speaker 1: I guess an economic terms, pretty darn good return on

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Speaker 1: investment so far.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, that's absolutely right, Peter.

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Speaker 1: Having said that, you know, you point out in the

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Speaker 1: report that we haven't really captured the productivity potential off

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Speaker 1: this network. We have a New Zealand a reputation for

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Speaker 1: not being great on the productivity front compared to other

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Speaker 1: advanced nations. We lag behind them. We've been hearing from

439
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,280
Speaker 1: the New Zealand Institute at Economic Research many others that

440
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 1: one of the keys to boosting productivity is embracing advanced technologies.

441
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,120
Speaker 1: A lot of them are digital technologies underpinned by high

442
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:03,440
Speaker 1: speed into So mayrish, to what extent have we actually

443
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,280
Speaker 1: got a productivity boost to date from UFB. We've obviously

444
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 1: had an economic impact. What about the productivity story?

445
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 5: It has a lifted productivity to date, despite the weak

446
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 5: productivity overall, what I would say is that our productivity

447
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,359
Speaker 5: performance would have been a lot worse had it not

448
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 5: been for the fiber network. But as our report emphasizes,

449
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:24,879
Speaker 5: there's still a long way to go. There's still a

450
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 5: massive dividend to capture if we continue, well, if we

451
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 5: take a few key six steps that we've outlined in

452
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,920
Speaker 5: our report to really capture that substantial dividend to come.

453
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 6: I mean, if we all imagine a world without fiber

454
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 6: productivity in New zeal And, what would our productivity look like?

455
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 6: It uplifted our productivity. And what we also showing the

456
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,679
Speaker 6: report is that our productivity payoff to come is just

457
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 6: really getting started, and we have a potential to add

458
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 6: another one hundred and sixty three billion dollars in MPV

459
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 6: terms over the next decade.

460
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,639
Speaker 1: You explain that in MPV, so you've got one hundred

461
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,479
Speaker 1: and sixty three billion dollars by twenty thirty three. What

462
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 1: does the MPV mean?

463
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 6: MPV is just net present value terms. What is the

464
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 6: value to dry over the next ten years.

465
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 1: So that's obviously significant. And to achieve that, we know

466
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 1: we'll get onto the six things that you sort of

467
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 1: have outlined you need to achieve. One of them is

468
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 1: just actually using this sort of gold plated network that

469
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 1: we've built. So I think it's been rolled out to

470
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 1: eighty five percent of the country now, but not everyone's

471
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:30,880
Speaker 1: using it, right, That.

472
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 6: Is absolutely right. I mean in our report, what we

473
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 6: indicate is that yes, eighty percent of our population do

474
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 6: have coverage in fiber, but uptake of fiber is currently

475
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 6: sitting at seventy five percent. And if we break it

476
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 6: down on a regional basis, for example, if we look

477
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 6: at Wellington, there's a gap between access and uptake of

478
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 6: twenty two percent. That is the first component that we

479
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 6: need to focus on. Is really decreasing the gap between

480
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 6: access and updake.

481
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:00,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, drill into that a little bit more more yoursh

482
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 1: you've identified the seventeen billion dollar figure that would be

483
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: left on the table. Is that simply down to the

484
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 1: fact that if we don't extend this out, less people

485
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 1: can access this, less people get those productivity gains.

486
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I think better. That's that's exactly exactly right.

487
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:20,959
Speaker 5: By increasing coverage and also I think importantly increasing uptake,

488
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 5: you get consumers, businesses and the like accessing this high

489
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 5: speed internet infrastructure increasingly as we outline in our or,

490
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 5: there'll be a lot more applications, technologies and the like

491
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 5: that are reliant on the high speed nature of the connectivity,

492
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 5: but also the bandwidth and latent to see characteristics of

493
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 5: the technology, they'll be crucial in enabling that. So the

494
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 5: more connection coverage you get of the fiber network, the

495
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 5: more use of these new technologies you get, and the

496
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 5: more better we get at producing goods and services I

497
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 5: eat productivity, and the better the benefits overall. So that

498
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,919
Speaker 5: that's how Yeah, characterizing I agreeing with you, but just

499
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 5: unpacking up packing your question a bit more.

500
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: Okay, looking forward, let's look at these sort of six

501
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 1: key things that you've identified that a sort of key

502
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 1: to really maximizing the benefit of this leads them. Could

503
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 1: you take us through those?

504
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, So in terms of the first actions, we just

505
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 6: discussed that already, So that is readdressing digital equity by

506
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 6: boosting fiber access and also the uptake in households. The

507
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 6: next dimension that we identified or action is in New Zealand,

508
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 6: we have to make room to innovate with II. So

509
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 6: as part of this is we identified to actions. So

510
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:39,120
Speaker 6: the first action is first on policy makers, so policy

511
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 6: makers really need to ensure that we promote increased II

512
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 6: usage but also in a responsible way. And then it's

513
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:51,120
Speaker 6: another action is perhaps on business associations where they would

514
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 6: need to work with their members to guide them through

515
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 6: the adoption of new technology is but also sharing success stories.

516
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 6: Another dimension that we've identified is about seizing the opportunity

517
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 6: to grow exports. So we know the government would like

518
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 6: to double the value of exports and one way that

519
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:14,919
Speaker 6: we can diversify our exports is in fact through weightless exports.

520
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 6: So New Zealand do have a comparative advantage in this

521
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,439
Speaker 6: and even if we think, say for example, about our

522
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 6: gaming sector. Just last week it was announced that for

523
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 6: the first time we are a net exporter from a

524
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 6: New Zealand perspective, and our fiber network is so critical

525
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 6: to enable this. So what we can do, and this

526
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 6: is both on businesses but also the government, is to

527
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 6: promote New Zealand, to promote the capabilities of a fiber

528
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,159
Speaker 6: network and to promote the success of our infrastructure that

529
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 6: we have here in New Zealand and that can facilit

530
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 6: out of growth in our exports. The last three actions

531
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 6: that we identified, one that I will focus on now

532
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 6: is around our small businesses. So our small businesses in

533
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,959
Speaker 6: New Zealand as really a backbone of our economy is

534
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 6: lagging in a take a I mean pt you will

535
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,360
Speaker 6: probably be aware of this to Asia Pacific surveys, as

536
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 6: only a third of our small businesses use social media,

537
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 6: only three four percent generate more than ten percent of

538
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 6: the revenue online. The average on an Asia Pacific level

539
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 6: is seventy percent, So we are really lagging behind. This

540
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 6: is impacting our growth, also impacting our productivity and performance

541
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 6: of our economy. So yeah, we can get small businesses

542
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 6: under government really to collaborate in order to get businesses

543
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 6: connected and lifting online presence. The government and a small

544
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 6: businesses again can work together in terms of providing the

545
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 6: right incentives, providing support programs, also ensuring that we are

546
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 6: attracting but also retaining the right talent in New Zealand.

547
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 6: And then if we think about larger businesses, they can

548
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 6: in fact support these small business customers through processes of

549
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:08,120
Speaker 6: digital adoption and facilitating knowledge sharing. Then if we only

550
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 6: focus on the government full moment, the government can really

551
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 6: be an early adopter. So what do we mean by that?

552
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 6: For example, the Commerce Commission in their recent market study

553
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 6: on personal banking. One of the recommendations there was for

554
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 6: the government to be an early adopted in open banking,

555
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 6: so we refer to it as open customer data because

556
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 6: banking is the first sectem being insurance, energy and so forth,

557
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 6: so the government could really be an early adopt to

558
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 6: day but also ensuring that we are moving more towards

559
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 6: a matured digital public infrastructure. And then the last component

560
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 6: is around regulation or is it deregulation that we need

561
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 6: because we need to make sure that our regulations in

562
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 6: New Zealand is really fit for purpose. So it is

563
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 6: conducive to invite an investment going forward. And I mean

564
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 6: regulized could refer to copper, could refer to fiber, could

565
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 6: refer to IO. So that is in a natural our

566
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 6: recommendations and key actions that we think is required to

567
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 6: ensure that we don't miss out on this opportunity. Maurge,

568
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 6: do you mind, We just want to flag the example

569
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 6: in Europe.

570
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, sure, think so, Peter. We note in our

571
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 5: report Europe's Digital Decade, it's a policy program with kind

572
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 5: of concrete targets to make the whole of you a

573
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 5: bit more, I guess, transform EU economy and make it

574
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 5: more digital. Some of our recommendations draw upon some of

575
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 5: the initiatives from the digital decade. For example, the increase

576
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 5: in coverage and uptake is a key key tenet of

577
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 5: Europe's digital decade. The other thing I guess I would

578
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 5: emphasize is Europe's doing a really really great job in

579
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 5: terms of measuring how they are tracking against those targets.

580
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 5: So they've got set concrete targets by twenty thirty. Every

581
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 5: couple years or so, they measure how each country is

582
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 5: tracking in relation to the targets, and if they are

583
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 5: tracking properly, they then go back to the drawing board

584
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 5: and essentially troubleshoot how they are going to reach those targets.

585
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 5: Underpinning those digital targets are quite a range of metrics

586
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 5: and data depending how each country is tracking towards the target.

587
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 5: They are tracking, how many invoices each of those large

588
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 5: to medium to small enterprises are providing as part of

589
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 5: their business operations. So really concrete targets backed up by

590
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 5: really concrete measurement and recalibration.

591
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: Yes, so tracking what you're doing is really important so

592
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 1: you can measure progress. We have had sort of initiatives

593
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 1: in New Zealand, like Digital Boost aimed at at small

594
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: and medium sized businesses. During the COVID pandemic, there was

595
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: a big focus on going digital really for necessity because

596
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 1: businesses had to pivot online. You think we've sort of

597
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: taken a foot off the gas on those efforts. Do

598
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 1: we really need to do a lot more. I'm thinking

599
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: of countries like Singapore which have given all the hawker

600
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: stalls in the country basically access to i F post

601
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: technology trying to get everyone transacting digitally. Do we really

602
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: need to do a bigger push with small business to

603
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: get them capable enough to take advantage of this great network?

604
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 6: We have totally agree, Viz, that's really required. I mean,

605
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 6: even if we think about our small businesses and the

606
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 6: fact that they are lagging in a tech game, that

607
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 6: is really important. We also understand, I'm in full small business,

608
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 6: the cost around technology and adoption is a big barrier

609
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 6: foot them. In order of our small business really to

610
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 6: lift their tech game, we might need to consider about

611
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 6: how can we support them to do that?

612
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's for pretty basic stuff really, like as

613
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: you say, accessing social media, having an e commerce platform

614
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: might be Shopify or something getting that enabled for your business.

615
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: But I think we're really starting to see with a

616
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: lot of businesses moving to the cloud, and then with AI,

617
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: we'll start to see that accelerate, which is what you've

618
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: identified in the report. May resh what sort of applications

619
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: when it comes to AI are we starting to see

620
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 1: being used and what do you expect over the next decade.

621
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: Give us a flavor of some of the more sort

622
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: of bandwidth intensive applications of AI that our businesses may

623
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 1: be using and consumers as well.

624
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 5: So at the moment, you know, as you'll be where

625
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 5: AI needs to be largely text dominated, so we're seeing

626
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 5: a lot of that being rolled out currently, but looking forward,

627
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 5: there might be generative AI models that take user prompts

628
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 5: and outputs such as videos, and you know, work off

629
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 5: that to simulate scenarios or IS solutions or answers. Another

630
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 5: example is a shift from X to two dimensional inputs

631
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 5: so that those tools can extrap plate and generate data

632
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 5: representing three D objects or creating virtual renderings or AIA

633
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 5: assisted prototypes or designs in a virtual virtual space. So

634
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 5: really kind of shift how we use AI currently from

635
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 5: a largely text based application to something a lot more interactive,

636
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:10,959
Speaker 5: bred and dynamic. The bandwidth and the latency provided by

637
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 5: the fiber network will be really really key to enabling that.

638
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 5: It will be a very i guess data hungry application

639
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 5: and the fiber network will be critical to that. So yeah,

640
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 5: that's that's I guess a view on how things might

641
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 5: evolve going into the future. And what is clear as

642
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 5: in any scenario, the fiber network will be really important

643
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 5: to the adoption and use of those kinds of developments.

644
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we've got really no idea what you know,

645
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: what is coming in the next five to seven years.

646
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: You know, Mark Zuckerberg is working on the metaverse. If

647
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: something like that took off, you know, real time virtual

648
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: reality and in a multi sort of player environment, could

649
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: could be very bannedwidth intensive as well. I guess the

650
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: benefit of fiber is that ability to increase the speeds

651
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 1: by changing the equipment at either ends of that fiber

652
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: optic cable and some of the stuff you've quoted in

653
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: there from Coorus. It's really quite staggering where we've come

654
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: from sort of in the last decade, from sort of

655
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: accessing the Internet at five megabits per second too. I

656
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 1: think the average was over four hundred megabits per second now.

657
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 5: Exactly right, And I just wanted to emphasize that, I

658
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 5: guess our estimates of the future dividend in a way

659
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 5: are conservative. They relate primarily to the I guess the

660
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 5: historical relationship between connectivity speed and penetration and productivity uplift.

661
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 5: But if AI technologies start really evolving and taking off,

662
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 5: and they still will be reliant on other fiber network

663
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 5: then that relationship might increase, and so the potential dividend

664
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 5: going forward might be larger. So in many respects, the

665
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 5: future potential impact that we've estimated might be a conservative

666
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 5: one if things move in a positive direction going forward.

667
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: And Lisa, in the report, you've talked about Europe what

668
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: they're doing, which is quite regressive. You quote in there

669
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 1: is some some research from other countries about the sort

670
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 1: of the productivity and economic boost that other countries have

671
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: experienced as well. How do we compare in terms of

672
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 1: how we've done compared to some of those other countries

673
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 1: that invested in high speed internet.

674
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 6: The first example is probably the example closest to us,

675
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 6: and that's Australium. So what we know is Australia mandated

676
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 6: a copy to fiber migration, where as an inner Zealand

677
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 6: we ben it was quite different. It was very focused

678
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 6: on targets, the provision of fiber products that set prices

679
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:39,399
Speaker 6: and initially through contracts with the Crown Infrastructure Partners. I mean,

680
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 6: what we see today is that every compare to Australia,

681
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 6: and this is all based on public reports. It is

682
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 6: not necessarily my own personal opinion. But we know we

683
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 6: have faster internet compared to Australia. We also know that

684
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 6: NBN is performing relatively well. There are quite a lot

685
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,439
Speaker 6: of lessons that I can learn from New Zealand from

686
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 6: a fiber perspective. What we also know, for example, is

687
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:08,359
Speaker 6: that New Zealand is currently ranks under the top ten

688
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 6: ninth out of thirty eight OCD countries, whereas Australia is

689
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 6: in a distant thirty of place. From a respective on

690
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 6: an international ladder, we are huge New Zealand's fiber network

691
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 6: is a huge success. Also, further, if we think about

692
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 6: downloaded speeds, for example, we are currently the thirteen fartist

693
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 6: in IRCd and that is ahead of Australia, United Kingdom,

694
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 6: Ireland and Germany. So yes, we are still lagging behind

695
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 6: countries such as Singapore, Korea, Iceland, Spain and Japan. But

696
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 6: that is also why it's so critical for us to

697
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 6: increase our coverage from eighty seven percent to ninety five percent.

698
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe there are plans to do that. There

699
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 1: is a scope for further investment in the network. The

700
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:04,240
Speaker 1: government seems amenable to doing that, so we may actually

701
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 1: get to ninety five percent. In terms of, you know,

702
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 1: the weightless economy, which everyone tells us we need to

703
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,839
Speaker 1: move to, even from a sustainability point of view, what

704
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 1: are you sort of thinking in terms of the types

705
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: of applications and products and services that our businesses will

706
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 1: increasingly be selling overseas. I'm thinking of the likes of

707
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 1: you know, wetter here, which makes very elaborate movies and

708
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 1: is shipping them around the world. You mentioned our gaming industry.

709
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: Those are obvious ones. What sort of other applications do

710
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 1: you think our businesses will increasingly be using high speed

711
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: internet to ship to the world.

712
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 6: Another couple of examples, say, is around any accounting systems

713
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 6: we can explore at Then if we think about meat

714
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 6: TECHSA medical technology, I mean we already have quite a

715
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 6: significant comparative advantage in that we can grow AD and

716
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 6: again that is with the underlying the fiber needwork and

717
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 6: enable to add And I infurther to that is that

718
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 6: we just talked about AI as well and all the

719
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 6: future II applications, so that in itself can also enable

720
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,240
Speaker 6: the growth of our weightless X words.

721
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 1: Murray Rish, what do you think this says about so

722
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: called public private partnerships which really underpinn the ultra fast

723
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: broadband network. We've got I think a problem in New

724
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 1: Zealand at the moment with infrastructure investment. There was a

725
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 1: lack of investment in the eighties and nineties and then

726
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: two thousands there was a bit more investment in roads

727
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: and infrastructure like UFB, but there seems to be a

728
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 1: model that worked very well for digital infrastructure. Do you

729
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: think there are parallels here with roading and water infrastructure

730
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,839
Speaker 1: and other types of things that we could apply these

731
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 1: lessons to other things.

732
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 5: What I would say to that is, and this is

733
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 5: what LESA had emphasized, there were set targets with the

734
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 5: UFB rollout, and it was done in a particular way.

735
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 5: I mean, I guess the key takeaways for me would

736
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 5: be that given those targets, given that clarity, it can

737
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 5: be a successful way in which to roll out infrastructure

738
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 5: and investment. And it has been successful. You know, the

739
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 5: devil will be in the detail right in terms of

740
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 5: how it might be applied to other infrastructure or other

741
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 5: types of investments. But I guess what this report is

742
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 5: focused on is a successful rollout of it, and it

743
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 5: highlights some of the key features being those performance targets

744
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 5: and the like pet.

745
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 6: I think also just adding to that is that, I

746
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 6: mean we have quite a lot of experts in our

747
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 6: Delutte infrastructure team and that will remind me every time

748
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 6: that a PPP construct for writing project is very different

749
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 6: to the public private partnership that we are talking about. Yeah,

750
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 6: but I still think that having that full sight is

751
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 6: really important. You know, doing it right on budget and

752
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 6: on time is really important. I do think this public

753
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 6: private partnership, even though it's digital, can also be considered

754
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 6: for our digital public infrastructure going forward. The other key

755
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:10,399
Speaker 6: thing is, like any infrastructure investment, is you will only

756
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 6: really read benefits over the long term. So keeping that

757
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 6: in mind, keeping in mind at any decisions that we

758
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 6: make today for infrastructure investments will take a long time

759
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,800
Speaker 6: to play off. But as we see, we've already reaped

760
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 6: sixteen percent of the productivity benefits, but the basin is

761
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 6: yet to come. So I four percent of the productivity

762
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 6: benefits we could realize that over the next ten years.

763
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 1: None of it appears to be really difficult. It's just

764
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,760
Speaker 1: it's a lot of small things, like getting small businesses,

765
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:45,359
Speaker 1: for instance, confident enough using digital tools, building their own websites,

766
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 1: and then maybe looking ein voicing if they're working with

767
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 1: overseas partners. You know, we've done some work with an

768
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:54,240
Speaker 1: Asia Pacific to enable that to happen. So it seems

769
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: like it's it's not one massive thing, although AI collectively

770
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 1: will POTENTI have a transformative effect on the economy. But

771
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 1: there's lots of things we can do now that other

772
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 1: countries are maybe a little bit ahead and to allow

773
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 1: us to read more of those productivity gains.

774
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 5: Exactly right, And I think the government also has a

775
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 5: crucial role in doing that, being an early adopter almost

776
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 5: to setting an example in terms of leveraging the network

777
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 5: and increasingly digitizing, which will also enable the private sector

778
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 5: to do so as well. So yeah, government has a

779
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 5: role to play.

780
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting. The government one, we've got Judith Collins

781
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,800
Speaker 1: as the Minister for digitizing Government, so she's really passionate

782
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: about that. People will probably think of when they talk

783
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 1: about the government, Oh, you know, filing my tax return,

784
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 1: stuff like that, maybe telling medicine in the health sect there.

785
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 1: But I guess there's lots of other things as well,

786
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 1: you know, for instance, education and even research, you know,

787
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: and doing e research. We've got a lot of Crown

788
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:58,359
Speaker 1: research institutes and universities as well. Is that of those

789
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,320
Speaker 1: six things that you're recommending, is that actually really crucial

790
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 1: wonder government is one of the biggest customers in the

791
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 1: country and one of the potentially one of the biggest

792
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 1: users of ultra fast broadband as well.

793
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 5: One of the six recommendations is that the government be

794
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 5: an early adopter here, so really harness that digital infrastructure

795
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 5: and be a bit of a bit of a leader

796
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 5: because they all add different kind of words out in

797
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 5: similar behavior from the private sector. So yeah, quite consistent

798
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 5: with what we've said in terms of how we realize

799
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:29,280
Speaker 5: that future dividend.

800
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,959
Speaker 6: Adding to that is that our views was that if

801
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 6: the government is an early adopted could actually potentially inspire

802
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 6: industry to follow.

803
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: Finally, the digital equity piece is really important. You know,

804
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 1: when I write about broadband and how great UFB is,

805
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 1: I just get a lot of people responding going, well,

806
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 1: I haven't got access to it, and I have to

807
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: rely on expensive alternatives like style ink, which is which

808
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 1: is great, but you know it's it's one hundred and

809
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 1: fifty dollars a month for the full speed version. So

810
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: a lot of people sort of like, well, what about

811
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:04,720
Speaker 1: us here in rural areas? And then we have issues

812
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:08,320
Speaker 1: in even in urban areas where households just can't afford

813
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,879
Speaker 1: to access it. How crucial is it that we we

814
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 1: crack that digital equity issue? And as you look around

815
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,720
Speaker 1: the world, are there any initiatives or any leaders where

816
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: it's obvious we can learn from to try and do that.

817
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 6: The first step could also just be educating consumers, educating

818
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 6: households and educating businesses as well. The reason why I

819
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 6: think educating consumers around fiber and its benefit and households

820
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 6: is so important is just based on how regulation works

821
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:47,400
Speaker 6: in New Zealand is the current wholesale providers of fiber

822
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 6: can only operate in a wholesale level off the market,

823
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 6: so I can't operate on retail as well. As a

824
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 6: result of that, there's a potential gap between the wholesale

825
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 6: level and the in consumer. So by educating the end

826
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 6: consumer around the benefits of fiber, the technologies that's coming

827
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 6: or is it the evolution and a train in the mind,

828
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 6: can really support that decline and a gap between access

829
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:14,720
Speaker 6: and updike.

830
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really good point. When I talk to

831
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 1: the telcos, they're basically saying for us to be able

832
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 1: to continue to invest in this network, whether it be

833
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: fiber or even mobile like five G going to six

834
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 1: G technology, they're saying, consumers are going to need to

835
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: realize the benefits of this technology. They sort of just

836
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 1: see these increases in capacity and speed as just a

837
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 1: thing that will always be there and always be relied on.

838
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 1: But it's really expensive to do that. So unless consumers

839
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:49,320
Speaker 1: recognize that there's a premium premium service should require premium pricing,

840
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: Unless we get our heads around that as a nation,

841
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 1: it's going to be really difficult to justify big, multi

842
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 1: billion dollar investments to make even more of these networks.

843
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 6: In our report mentioned that as well. So for example,

844
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 6: if you think about a household today on the average,

845
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 6: you have about twenty two connected devices. So it's a

846
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:15,359
Speaker 6: move from I am connecting individuals or households, but it's

847
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,919
Speaker 6: also connecting to things. I mean, in the next by

848
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:23,320
Speaker 6: twenty thirty, the average will move from twenty two connected

849
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 6: devices to forty four connected devices by twenty thirty. So

850
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:33,760
Speaker 6: that movement and the development of technologies and consumer preferences,

851
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 6: that is just re emphasizing the importance of our fiber network.

852
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:40,760
Speaker 6: I mean always just take it for for granted.

853
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 1: In a background, just said one other question I've for

854
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 1: gotten to ask you about, which maybe mayor issue you

855
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 1: might have an answer to this to what extent are

856
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: these really significant gains we see from UFB into the

857
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 1: future reliant on cloud infrastructure. We've got the hyperscalers, Google,

858
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 1: Microsoft and AWS are building infrastructure in New Zealand. Sure,

859
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 1: at the moment our businesses are sending their data to

860
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:13,760
Speaker 1: hyperscale facilities offshore. But that flurry of investment in the cloud,

861
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:17,320
Speaker 1: including from the Data com and Spark, is that really

862
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: going to enable us to get a lot more out

863
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: of UFB as well.

864
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 5: I might answer this in two parts and see how

865
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 5: it falls. Our report focuses on the fiber network in particular,

866
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 5: so how the increase in uptake and speed will result

867
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:36,879
Speaker 5: in us doing things better, so a productivity uplift and

868
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 5: therefore a bit of a benefit going forward. In relation

869
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 5: to those hyperscalers and data centers, absolutely, they're crucial, crucial

870
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 5: to this, and I guess what I would say is

871
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 5: that the fiber network is again a pretty critical piece

872
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 5: of infrastructure. They will enable us to utilize that delatency.

873
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 5: The speed of the Internet connection will mean we can

874
00:46:56,680 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 5: leverage those data centers and make better use of use

875
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 5: of those without the fiber connectivity. Without the fiber network,

876
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 5: the benefits you might get from those hyperscalars might be

877
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 5: curtailed or were limited.

878
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm really glad that Deloitte did this study.

879
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,800
Speaker 1: It didn't appear to have any agenda in doing it either.

880
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 1: Two economists who have a background at the Commerce Commission

881
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 1: so have been analyzing this from a competition point of

882
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:33,800
Speaker 1: view at one point the economics of competition are now

883
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 1: at a consulting firm that is very interested in how

884
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 1: we're using technology. So I think that the two big

885
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:47,360
Speaker 1: takeaways from this are concerned about small business, especially with

886
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 1: digital boost seems to be winding down or has wound down.

887
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 1: The funding isn't there anymore. So we had an initiative

888
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 1: to really encourage small businesses to take up cloud computing,

889
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: e commerce. Do we actually have a government drive anymore

890
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 1: to do that? It doesn't look like it. And you know,

891
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,880
Speaker 1: if they're not taking up simple things like social media

892
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 1: and e commerce platforms and those sorts of tools, what

893
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 1: are they going to do with AI? So are we

894
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 1: going to lag in AI as well? And the other

895
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 1: thing is, you know, a lot of this is predicated

896
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 1: on we're going to fill the pipes, these bigger pipes

897
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 1: more capacity with AI related applications. What's that actually going

898
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:31,279
Speaker 1: to look like? And I guess we were asking that

899
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 1: same question. I remember I was when we were on

900
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 1: five megabit per second connections and being told we were

901
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 1: moving to hundreds of megabits per second. Other than you know,

902
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 1: live streaming and gaming and that sort of stuff, what

903
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 1: were we going to use it for? But we've used

904
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,720
Speaker 1: a lot of that capacity. We are using it and really,

905
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 1: you know, not just richer sources of media, but more devices.

906
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:57,239
Speaker 1: They said there's something like twenty four devices per household

907
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:00,799
Speaker 1: going to forty five in the next decade. So the

908
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 1: IoT revolution, having smart fridge is having smite everything in

909
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 1: our homes. We will actually be using the best part

910
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 1: of a gigabit connection within a decade.

911
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 6: Yeah.

912
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 2: I think it's one of those things where and you

913
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 2: kind of saw this in the move from dial up

914
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 2: to faster broadband in the beginning, which was that you know,

915
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 2: we started with these really bare bones HTML websites literally

916
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 2: just text and a couple of small, low res images,

917
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 2: and then the more the faster we got, the higher

918
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 2: resolution everything got. We fill the capacity as it arrives.

919
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:36,439
Speaker 2: I don't think we're going to reach a point where

920
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 2: we run out of ways to use up data. The

921
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 2: more we have, the more we'll use. Yeah, I think

922
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 2: I wonder about the diminishing returns of value on the

923
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:48,760
Speaker 2: faster speed, whether we're actually just filling it with junk

924
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 2: or whether we're actually going to get value out of it,

925
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 2: and AI seems to be one of the areas where

926
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 2: that could potentially help to boost that value.

927
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 1: So and it turned out to be a great return

928
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,720
Speaker 1: on investment, know in terms of the money we've invested

929
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 1: versus the value. That's mirrored by other studies overseas. For

930
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:09,760
Speaker 1: every dollar you put into fiber, you get a really

931
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 1: healthy return. That issue they identified though eighty seven percent coverage,

932
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 1: seventy five percent uptake. And I wonder if a large

933
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 1: component of that is that the internet providers have been

934
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:30,839
Speaker 1: diverting people away from fiber to their own wireless broadband

935
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 1: products because they get a better margin on that. They

936
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 1: don't have to pay Corus and the other UFB providers

937
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:42,280
Speaker 1: a big wholesale fee. And that's where Liza was talking about.

938
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:45,839
Speaker 1: Regulation is one of those six things in future. So

939
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 1: does the government need to do something to change the

940
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 1: settings here to make it more attractive for ISPs to

941
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 1: actually use this goal plated network rather than trying to

942
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:56,400
Speaker 1: go around it with their own products.

943
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 2: Maybe I actually think that event market forces might sort

944
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:06,120
Speaker 2: it out, because fiber is better. Have you ever had

945
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:08,840
Speaker 2: one of these calls from your ISP saying, hey, you

946
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 2: should really be on fixed wireless.

947
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 1: I haven't, but my father did and he went on

948
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 1: to it.

949
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,719
Speaker 2: Oh no, see, I got one, and I'm like, you

950
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 2: are a horrid percent barking up the wrong tree because

951
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 2: I know what my data usage is, Like, I know

952
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 2: that I stream in four K regularly at high peak

953
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:27,840
Speaker 2: area at high peak times. I need consistency because I

954
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 2: do a lot of work online. They do podcasting. I

955
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 2: need all these things. Why on earth are you calling me?

956
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:37,279
Speaker 2: And I wrote a story recently we're talking about a

957
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 2: forsythe Bar report where one of the analysts said that

958
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:44,520
Speaker 2: he sees fixed wireless as a legacy technology now, which

959
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 2: I think is quite strong words, and that connections to

960
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:51,360
Speaker 2: it are going to start to decline from about twenty

961
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 2: twenty seven because people are going to see that fiber

962
00:51:56,600 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 2: is better. Chorus is still releasing these really good low

963
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 2: cost plans for consumers, and then you're getting a lot

964
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:06,479
Speaker 2: of done with pressure on costs of fiber as well

965
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:10,359
Speaker 2: from virtual network operators like some SkyTV and that kind

966
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 2: of thing, who are saying we'll use broadband as a

967
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 2: lost leader because the margins are relatively low anyway, So

968
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 2: people are going to want to get on fiber eventually,

969
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 2: especially as fixed wireless limitations start to become more obvious.

970
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 2: And then in the rural area, starlink still offers a

971
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 2: much better option in terms of speed, so and I

972
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:32,879
Speaker 2: don't think we're going to see it continue to take

973
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 2: up market share of fiber.

974
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 1: I guess the real takeaway for other infrastructure projects is

975
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 1: you've got to have really firm targets and be monitoring

976
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 1: that all the way. That's what the Digital Europe thing

977
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:50,319
Speaker 1: is doing. That's what they did with the Yeah, I

978
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:52,800
Speaker 1: remember all the announcements and pressure releases where we're getting

979
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:55,759
Speaker 1: every six months, this is how many households we've reached,

980
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 1: this is how many accounts have been turned on. It

981
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 1: was sort of like really easy to track progress on

982
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:05,320
Speaker 1: that it hasn't been on some of the other infrastructure projects.

983
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 1: And I think that accountability really drives a project forward.

984
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think we have to remember that just

985
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:15,880
Speaker 2: because broadband was hugely successful as a PPP as a

986
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:19,359
Speaker 2: public private partnership doesn't automatically mean they all are. They're

987
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 2: still going to need to have all of these checks

988
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 2: and balances and things in place to make sure that

989
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 2: to make sure that the outcomes that we are looking

990
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 2: for are matt because it doesn't automatically mean success just

991
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 2: because it has before.

992
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:38,840
Speaker 1: Absolutely so. Thanks so much to Lisa vandermerv and Majoorish

993
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 1: Prasad from Deloitte Access Economics for their insights on their report.

994
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 1: We've a link to it in the show notes find

995
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 1: them in the podcast section at Businessdesk dot co dot nz.

996
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:52,919
Speaker 2: And that's where you can stream this podcast in full

997
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 2: every week, and it's also available on iHeartRadio or your

998
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:59,919
Speaker 2: podcast platform of choice and get in touch with your feed.

999
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 2: We'd love to hear your suggestions for upcoming guests as well.

1000
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:07,239
Speaker 2: Email me on Bend at Businessdesk dot co dot z

1001
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 2: and you.

1002
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 1: Can find both of us on x and LinkedIn, where

1003
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:12,919
Speaker 1: you can follow the Business of Tech page for all

1004
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:13,760
Speaker 1: of our updates.

1005
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 2: That's it for another week.

1006
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:21,360
Speaker 1: Catch you for the next episode, same place next Thursday.