1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:04,479 Speaker 1: Right now, Sky City and the TAB. They are complaining 2 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: that there won't be a level playing field when this 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:11,040 Speaker 1: new regulation for online gambling comes into effect. The government 4 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: is going to auction off fifteen licenses to run an 5 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: online casino in New Zealand, but both local and international 6 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,279 Speaker 1: companies will be allowed to bid for the licenses. Here's 7 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: the problem, lot O pokeing machines and the TAB they 8 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: all have to donate a portion of the money that 9 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: they make to community groups, but there'll be no requirement 10 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: for the winners of these fifteen options to do that. 11 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: Brook van Velden is the Internal Affairs Minister and she's 12 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: with me tonight. Hey, Brook, Benet thing Ryan, thank you 13 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: for being with me. I really appreciate you coming on. 14 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 1: Wouldn't it be better for us if domestic operators that 15 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:49,520 Speaker 1: you know, they pay tax here, they employ people here, 16 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: they give some money to local groups, etc. Wouldn't it 17 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: be better if they got the licenses. 18 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 2: Well, there's already a range of people who are paying 19 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 2: tax in New Zealand for online gambling. It's not just 20 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 2: you know, some of our pokies and casinos. There's already 21 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 2: thirty six operators paying tax. What I think is really 22 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 2: important here is this is about trying to build a 23 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 2: competitive market where we are enabling people to be able 24 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 2: to play safely in a regulated market, which is not 25 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 2: the case at the moment. But we also are not 26 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 2: trying to restrict it so much that we're not actually 27 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 2: channeling people into that market. So if you look at 28 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 2: a New Zealand consumer wanting to play games, there's hundreds 29 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 2: of websites available at the moment, unregulated in New Zealand. 30 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 2: How do we get that balance right for the number 31 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 2: which I've set at fifteen to ensure that there is competition, 32 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 2: there is choice in the market so that someone who 33 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 2: does want to play actually has those options. If we 34 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 2: went for just you know, domestic providers only, well, I'm 35 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 2: sorry to say, we're a very small country and there's 36 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 2: only about two people that could currently possibly into that market. 37 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 2: And I know when we look at things like supermarkets, 38 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 2: when we look at banks, when we don't have competition, 39 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 2: it's not a good market. 40 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: But do we want a good market when it comes 41 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 1: to gambling. 42 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 2: Well, what's really important is in order to have harm minimization, 43 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 2: which is at the heart of why I'm doing this, 44 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 2: we have to allow for there to be a range 45 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 2: of products that people actually want to play with. You know, 46 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 2: if you've got people at the moment, I think it's around. 47 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 1: Three point Sorry, but that just sounds back to front. 48 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: In order to make sure we've got harm minimization, we 49 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:39,359 Speaker 1: need to make sure we've got good options for people 50 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: to gamble. I mean it sounds backwards. 51 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 2: It's true, just let me walk you through it. So 52 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,959 Speaker 2: at the moment, around three point six percent of people 53 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 2: in New Zealand gamble online already, but it's not a 54 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 2: safe market. There are no harm minimization standards for things 55 00:02:55,960 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 2: like age verification or being able to actually withdraw your winnings. 56 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 2: We're going to put in place some strong regulations to 57 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 2: ensure that children can't play online and you can get 58 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 2: your money out. There'll be a whole bunch others as well. 59 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 2: But in order to get people who are currently gambling 60 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 2: and people who might in the future want to gamble 61 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 2: into a safe and regulated market, we have to have 62 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 2: options for them to play with, not just one or 63 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 2: two providers. They have to be attractive. There has to 64 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 2: be competition, and that makes for a good market. 65 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: What's to stop these people who are using these offshore 66 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: providers at the moment from just keeping on doing that. 67 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 2: Well, it's possible, but this is called the channeling effect. 68 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 2: So what will end up doing is changing the market. 69 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 2: So people can advertise, they can let people know about 70 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 2: what their products are, but you've got some very strict 71 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 2: criteria about what you can and cannot do, and if 72 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 2: you breach any of those obligations, DiiA could revoke your 73 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 2: license or give you a fine of up to five 74 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 2: million dollars. It's really important that we acknowledge people do 75 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 2: gamble online, but it is currently unsafe for New Zealand. 76 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 2: So if you've put in place those harmonimization standards. 77 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 1: Okay, But if you're a foreign foreign gambling online gambling company, 78 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: you've currently got some market share in New Zealand. Presumably 79 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: you've attracted customers by advertising to them in some way, 80 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: shape or form. Who's going to be policing online ads 81 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 1: for gambling. 82 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 2: Well, at the moment ads for online gambling are illegal. 83 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 2: That can't happen, but the IA do work to take 84 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 2: them down. That is one of the functions of DEA, 85 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 2: and I understand the Internet service providers have been very 86 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 2: willing to take down illegal advertising of online gambling. What 87 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 2: will happen going forward is if there are people who 88 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 2: have licenses in other jurisdictions. Then bear in mind the 89 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 2: UK has hundreds of different licenses online gam If any 90 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 2: of those people are illegally operating in New Zealand, our regulator, 91 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 2: through DEA, will get in touch with international regulators to 92 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 2: let them know that they're breaching our laws and that 93 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 2: could be a breach of their own license abilities and 94 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 2: other jurisdictions. So having our regulator work across borders to 95 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 2: let people know that there's been breaches in our country 96 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 2: will help to create this regulated, safe market. 97 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: Presumably you've had advice up the wazoo on this. How 98 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: many people do you imagine that this is going to 99 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: stop problem gambling? 100 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 2: Well, it's actually really hard to know, you know, we 101 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 2: don't have good data at the moment on even how 102 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:48,119 Speaker 2: many people are specifically problem gamblers and how many people 103 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 2: have been helped by problem gambling services. My aim with 104 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 2: regulating the market is that we will actually capture better 105 00:05:55,760 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 2: data on who is gambling online and problem with it. So, 106 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 2: for example, a licensed provider would need to show DIA 107 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 2: over time how many people are using their services and 108 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 2: would even have breakdown data on what that type of 109 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:17,239 Speaker 2: use has been like, so we can actually capture data 110 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 2: that we don't currently have because the market is unregulated. 111 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: Okay, good luck with this, Brook. I note that the 112 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: tax take will be what around thirteen million bucks a 113 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: year for the first few years, so I mean, yeah, 114 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: good luck. It sounds very It sounds like it's going 115 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: to be an uphill battle if I'm being honest, to 116 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 1: get to actually make this something that the public will 117 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: find palatable, just because gambling is so destructive for people. 118 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: That's Bro Van Valdem, the Internal Affairs Minister. 119 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 2: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 120 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 2: news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 121 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.