1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,840 Speaker 1: Farming groups and taxpayers. The Taxpayers Union crying fell this 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: afternoon after the government last week signed the country up 3 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 1: to new ambitious climate targets. So here is the targets 4 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by fifty one to fifty 5 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: five percent below two thousand and five levels by twenty 6 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:18,959 Speaker 1: thirty five. 7 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 2: Now. 8 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:23,240 Speaker 1: Climate experts say that this target is actually more ambitious 9 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: than the previous governments, but to meet it they are 10 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: likely to either need to plant lots more trees or 11 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: to pay as much as twenty four billion dollars to 12 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: offset our emissions. Now, the ACT Party leader David Seymour 13 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: has suggested that we should actually just pull out and 14 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:41,200 Speaker 1: rip up the climate a Paris climate called altogether. Simon 15 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: Watts is the Climate Change Minister and he's with me 16 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: this afternoon. Minister, Hello, hi, right, thanks for having me. 17 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: Why have you signed us up for targets that are 18 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: even more ambitious than the last governments. 19 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 3: Look, it's important that New Zealand is paying its path 20 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 3: in the context of these agreements. This as an international agreement. 21 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 3: We've set a target which we believe is aligned with 22 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 3: allowing us to do and achieve our economic growth. Ambitions, 23 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 3: but also balancing that with our national interests. We set 24 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 3: a target of fifty one by twenty thirty five, and 25 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:17,680 Speaker 3: the current target is fifty by twenty thirty So that's 26 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 3: what we've done, but. 27 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: It's I mean, it's still more than the last lot, 28 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: which I don't think is quite what fed farmers thought 29 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 1: they were voting for. 30 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 3: Well, the criteria when we set these targets, when countries 31 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 3: look to set these targets, is it needs to be 32 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 3: higher than the existing target. And so we've met that 33 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 3: commitment in terms of the target, but importantly, we've actually 34 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,199 Speaker 3: aligned it with our domestic targets. We released a plan 35 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 3: late last year which provides a pathway for us to 36 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 3: meet those targets, and now our international target is aligned 37 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 3: with our domestic targets, and that's the first time that 38 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 3: that's been the case. 39 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: To meet it, we're basically going to have to plant 40 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of trees, or we're going to have 41 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: to pay a whole bunch of money. 42 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 2: It's the money or the trees. 43 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 3: No, it's not. Our plans that we released last year 44 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 3: provide a pathway for us to meet the twenty thirty 45 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 3: five target. That's from a variety of means, including agricultural 46 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 3: emissions reduction, through some of the innovation that's currently underway 47 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 3: and in. 48 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: The planning which we don't which we don't have certainty 49 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 1: about it right now, right, So let's put that to 50 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: one side for a second. So what about the trees. 51 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:23,799 Speaker 1: How many trees do we need to plant? 52 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,519 Speaker 3: Well, there is going to be a component of forestry 53 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:28,359 Speaker 3: that will be part of the mix. 54 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:30,920 Speaker 1: How much it's not A bed farmer said you would 55 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: have to plant seventy five percent of Taranaki with trees 56 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:36,519 Speaker 1: in order to meet your targets. 57 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's simply not the reality. The numbers in 58 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 3: terms of the forestry acreage is part of our plans 59 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 3: that we released late late last year, and it comes 60 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 3: from a range of sectors. The fact in the narrative 61 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 3: of you know, going to have to plant you know 62 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 3: that degree of trees across New Zealanders and simply not 63 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:56,119 Speaker 3: the rest. 64 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 2: So how much is it then? How much do we 65 00:02:57,919 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 2: have to plant? 66 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,519 Speaker 3: Well, it's going to be a reasonable amount of forestry, 67 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 3: But again, what's reasonable in our plans in terms of 68 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 3: the overarching hectares and stuff? I haven't got that in 69 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 3: front of me right now. 70 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 2: So it's possible. 71 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 1: It's possible, it could be seventy five percent of the 72 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:15,639 Speaker 1: size of Tatanaki. 73 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 2: You're just not sure right now. 74 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 3: It's not it is not a material increase in the 75 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 3: context of the forestry that we already had underwear. 76 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: What about the twenty four billion dollars that we're on 77 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: the hook for if we don't meet the targets, Well. 78 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 3: Again, that is not correct. There's no design. Doesn't get 79 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 3: an invoice from someone in twenty thirty for paying that 80 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 3: amount of money. 81 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 2: The way, but we have to buy the credits right. 82 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 3: Well, the way these international commitments and work is that, 83 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 3: you know, we need to do our absolute you know, 84 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 3: everything that we can do in order to meet the targets, 85 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 3: and we're focused on domestic action to do that. 86 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, but if we don't meet the targets I'm talking about, 87 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: if we don't meet the targets, do we have to 88 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: go out and spend twenty four billion dollars buying up credits? 89 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 3: No, we don't, and the government has been clear that 90 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 3: we don't want to be sending billions of dollars overseas 91 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 3: and we have no current. 92 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: So what do we do if we don't meet the targets, 93 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: what do we and we're not going to buy any credits? 94 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 2: What do we do? Well? 95 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 3: What reality is is that we've still got time between 96 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 3: now and twenty thirty. We're working through our plans. But 97 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 3: the targets that I released last year relates to twenty 98 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 3: thirty five and that's the. 99 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 2: Targets this givement. 100 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 1: So there's no plan B. We signed this agreement and 101 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: you're hell bent on sticking to it. It seems if 102 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 1: we don't meet the targets, you don't One you don't 103 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 1: know how many trees will have to plant to get there. 104 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 1: But two, if we don't meet the targets, we're not 105 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: going to be buying any carbon credits to make up 106 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: the difference. So what we'll be in breach of the agreement. 107 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 3: You're talking about two different years. We're talking about the 108 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 3: twenty thirty five target that this government has said. We've 109 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 3: released an emission's reduction plan that shows a pathway of 110 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 3: how we're going to meet that. The target as twenty 111 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 3: thirty that was entered into by the prior government is 112 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 3: significantly challenging and we're currently looking at all options around that, 113 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 3: and we're focused on domestic action. But in regard to 114 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 3: the twenty thirty five target, which is a target that 115 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 3: we have set as a government, that is the one 116 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 3: that we have a pathway to achieve through the misiontroduction 117 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 3: plans that we published late last year. 118 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 1: Right, and if we don't meet the twenty thirty five 119 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: what do we do? 120 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 3: Well, we will do absolutely everything we can to meet that. 121 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 3: But I. 122 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 1: Mean, this is what bed farmers are saying. Bed Farmers 123 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: and the text pas Engine come out and said, well, 124 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 1: I mean, we're not going to meet it unless we 125 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: planned a whole bunch of trees. And if we don't 126 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: plant a whole bunch of trees, then we'll have to 127 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: pay something. 128 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 3: The plans that we released last year show the initiatives 129 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 3: that we have currently got in flight up today get 130 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 3: us pretty much there. In the context of the twenty 131 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 3: thirty five target. Yes, we're going to need to do 132 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 3: a few other things, but there is a lot of 133 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,040 Speaker 3: consideration around how much we're going to get out of 134 00:05:59,920 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 3: the meet sane innovation. As you said, you know, a 135 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 3: lot of that is still work in progress, but there's 136 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 3: also other aspects around you know, what industry does Fontera 137 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:12,919 Speaker 3: are already announcing some pretty significant plans around decarbonization in 138 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 3: the last few weeks. The doubling of the renewables is 139 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 3: all going to play its part. How quickly people continue 140 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 3: to up take ev vehicles will play into the mix. 141 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 3: You know this is twenty thirty five tomorrow. 142 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: Well we'll live in hope. Do you have a problem 143 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 1: with FED farmers? Apparently you haven't met them since November. 144 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: They've been dying to meet with you about this, But 145 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: you've met with Greenpeace, the World Wildlife Fund, the Alta Circle, 146 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 1: whatever that is. 147 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 3: No, I don't. I grew up on a farm, Ryan, 148 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 3: so I don't have a new problem with the Fed farmers. 149 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 2: Quite the off one. 150 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,719 Speaker 3: You meet them, my office talught with them regularly. 151 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 2: But why haven't you told them. 152 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 3: What my understanding is. I will be doing so in 153 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 3: the next few weeks. 154 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: So you run your you run your agenda. 155 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 2: Why haven't you met with them? 156 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 3: I meet a number of representatives from FED Farmers in 157 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 3: a number of engagements. 158 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: That sounds vague, and we're saying when it's not. They've 159 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: asked to meet with you about this issue before it 160 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: came out. Since November, you haven't met with them. That 161 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: seems a bit of a snub. 162 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 3: No, it's not a snub, not at all. No, we 163 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 3: engage regularly with bed farmers and I look forward to 164 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 3: catching up with them in due course. 165 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: Simon Wat's climent, Minister, thank you very much for your time. 166 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: Great to have you on the show. 167 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 3: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 168 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 3: news Talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 169 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 3: the podcast on iHeartRadio.