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Speaker 1: The government's toughening the three Strikes Bill by lowering the

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Speaker 1: qualifying sentence threshold. What does that mean. Well, initially it

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Speaker 1: was proposing the threshold you would have to reach in

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Speaker 1: order to be considered for your first strike a sentence

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Speaker 1: of twenty four months or more. They're lowering that down

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Speaker 1: to twelve months, which means lesser crimes will get you

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Speaker 1: your first strike. You can then go on to get

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Speaker 1: your second and third, but would require a twenty four

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Speaker 1: month imprisonment minimum term in order to get your second

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Speaker 1: and third strike. Roderic mulgan is a criminal defense lawyer.

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Speaker 1: He joins US Live this morning. Roderick, Good morning, Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the show.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Ryan, how are you good?

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Speaker 1: Thank you? Is this going to make much of a difference.

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Speaker 2: Well, yes, it'll catch more people in the net, which

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Speaker 2: is of course they're intending. I think, of course, need

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Speaker 2: to point out that when you refer to those sentences,

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Speaker 2: you're referring to the maximum sentence available for the crime

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Speaker 2: on the statu're not the actual sentence yes that the

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Speaker 2: person might get. Yes, so you know you might not

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Speaker 2: get twenty four months in jail. But if that's the

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Speaker 2: sentence for that crime. Then you've ticked the box. You've

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Speaker 2: got to strike.

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Speaker 1: What types of crimes would fall under the twelve months

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Speaker 1: as opposed to the twenty four wow.

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Speaker 2: All sorts of tents and burgeries and assaults. It's it's

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Speaker 2: quite common that the sorts of crimes that come before

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Speaker 2: the courts I have those terms of imprisonments attached low level.

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Speaker 2: In decent assaults, that sort of thing. Certainly burglary, certainly thing.

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Speaker 1: So burglary and theft could get you your first strike then,

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Speaker 1: but then you would have to be really bad to

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Speaker 1: get your second and third.

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Speaker 2: You just had to be a bit with In fact,

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Speaker 2: those crimes would qualify under the twenty four month mark

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 1: True, So all in all, is this going to make

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Speaker 1: New Zealand safer?

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Speaker 2: So that's the big question, and that's what the politicians

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Speaker 2: as certain that it will. It will certainly put people

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Speaker 2: in jail for longer. Whether that's a good thing, it's

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Speaker 2: an entirely different question. The idea that you can keep

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Speaker 2: society safe by just locking people up for very long

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Speaker 2: periods of time and forgiving where you left the key

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Speaker 2: is a bit old fashioned. It has perverse effects. So,

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Speaker 2: for instance, if you're going up for a sentence and

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Speaker 2: you agree to things like undertaking reatabilitation, you get a discount,

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Speaker 2: which is a good thing. But if you have an

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Speaker 2: automatic the judge can't vary at rule that you must

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Speaker 2: get the maximum sentence, then you no longer engage in

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Speaker 2: those sorts of activities to get yourself a discount.

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Speaker 1: But if you've done strike one, strike two, strike three,

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Speaker 1: I mean, at some point, isn't it more for us.

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Speaker 2: More?

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Speaker 1: Aren't we the fool for believing it? You know that

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Speaker 1: they'll change, joy that the remorseful when it's.

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Speaker 2: No, not at all. Lots of people get strings of

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Speaker 2: sentences over years, but they're still capable of changing, improving,

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Speaker 2: having periods of time where they don't offend. A fending

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Speaker 2: is complicated. It's not just the case of the bad people.

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Speaker 2: People offend because they have substance peerce issues, because they're

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Speaker 2: low IQ, because they don't have they're not embedded in

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Speaker 2: family support networks, they lack life skills. It's a complicated business,

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Speaker 2: and you can't just say I will lock you up

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Speaker 2: for longer and you'll learn your lesson. And the other

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Speaker 2: big problem is that you get seriously disproportionate outcomes and

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Speaker 2: there was a famous case that came out the last time.

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Speaker 2: This is on the statute books. Gramman, who had some

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Speaker 2: mental health issues, tried to kiss a woman on the.

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Speaker 1: Street and it was completely overblowing basically, wasn't it.

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Speaker 2: And that was indecent assault. He got seven because that

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Speaker 2: was the third one. Yeah, that's the problem.

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Speaker 1: Roderick, thank you very much for your time. As always,

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Speaker 1: Roderic mulgan, who is a criminal defense lawyer.

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Speaker 2: For more from Early Edition with Ryan Bridge, Listen live

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Speaker 2: to news Talks.

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