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Speaker 1: The Prime mister. Not well, so the Finance Minister is

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Speaker 1: doing the business for us. Nickeler Willisons, Well, that's very

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Speaker 1: good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, great to be on the show mate.

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Speaker 1: How sick is the Prime Minister?

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Speaker 2: He's got a virus, just like every human being gets

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Speaker 2: from time to time. Turns out even prime ministers aren't

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Speaker 2: one hundred percent immune to everything.

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Speaker 1: Have you checked that he shouldn't be at work and

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Speaker 1: he's a bit soft?

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Speaker 2: Well. I actually saw him on Saturday where he had

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Speaker 2: on the bravest face I've seen, but I could see

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Speaker 2: he was in that fog of illness where you're smiling

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Speaker 2: but on the inside you're dying. And so I was

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Speaker 2: pleased to hear that he was going to take a

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Speaker 2: little bit of rest this morning.

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Speaker 1: Okay, are you cognizant to what's happening on the Northern

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Speaker 1: Motorway in the speed limit one ten, one hundred, et

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Speaker 1: cetera or not?

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Speaker 2: Do you know? I am because Chris Bishop, our Transport Minister,

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Speaker 2: contacted me last night to say, if you're on Mike tomorrow,

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Speaker 2: he's going to ask you about this because he is

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Speaker 2: obsessed with it, and we respect your obsessions. Mike, the

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Speaker 2: word of se this line of questioning.

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Speaker 1: The word obsessed is I take Umbridge at that. But

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Speaker 1: what I didn't, what I didn't realize, is that you've

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Speaker 1: only increased a small chunk of it five kilometers and

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Speaker 1: it's not even the new. But what is wrong with

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Speaker 1: us that we just can't get on with it?

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Speaker 2: Well, look, it's all to do with PPPs and the

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Speaker 2: requirements of those. But there's still work being done on

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Speaker 2: it and there will be future developments, and Chris Biship

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Speaker 2: has said that I can promise you then when those

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Speaker 2: future developments occur, your show is where they will be announced.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so how hard is it to just simply say

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Speaker 1: we've got a brand new piece of road. It's one

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Speaker 1: hundred and ten enjoy.

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Speaker 2: So what it's about is the requirements for maintenance of

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Speaker 2: the road and making sure that the specifications are being

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Speaker 2: met and that that speed can be accommodated within the contracts.

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Speaker 2: So that's all being worked through.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you've got a timeline on this.

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Speaker 2: I don't, But as I say, Chris Bishop is all

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Speaker 2: over this and is quite keen to be able to

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Speaker 2: keep talking to you about it, because, as you know,

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Speaker 2: we want people to be able to drive faster on

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Speaker 2: good roads where it's safe to do so, and it

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Speaker 2: looks like a pretty good road to me.

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Speaker 1: The simplicity thing that you did yesterday, the housing that

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Speaker 1: you're on the news for, were you disappointed? The bloke

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Speaker 1: who was showing you around went on the news and

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Speaker 1: said that it's that you depreciation things not good enough

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Speaker 1: because there's no pipeline anyway. In other words, you showed

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Speaker 1: you a bit of hospitality than knife jab.

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Speaker 2: Well, he's allowed to say what he's going to say,

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Speaker 2: but I tell you what. I have been genuinely overwhelmed

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Speaker 2: by the amount of positive feedback I have had about

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Speaker 2: investment booths so far, to the extent that as I

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Speaker 2: was flying home yesterday, I had several people come up

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Speaker 2: to me in the airport. I had someone on the

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Speaker 2: plane say to me, love that policy. We're going to

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Speaker 2: bring forward our investment and our vegetable kit that we've

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Speaker 2: got in the processing plant. I've had farmers telling me

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Speaker 2: that it's the nudge they need to buy a new tractor.

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Speaker 2: I've had people, even in a chicken process plants, say

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Speaker 2: we we're going to do twelve million dollars worth of investment.

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Speaker 2: It's now going to be eighteen. So we're getting great

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Speaker 2: feedback across the country that this is the nudge a

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Speaker 2: lot of businesses need to make those investments and get

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Speaker 2: growing again.

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Speaker 1: Do you have any sense, and I mean I think

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Speaker 1: the answers know, but how much are people going to

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Speaker 1: spend therefore, how much are they going to depreciate? Therefore

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Speaker 1: how much are they not going to pay you tax?

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Speaker 2: Well, there's two parts to it. There's those who are

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Speaker 2: going to be making investments anyway, so for them this

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Speaker 2: policy means a bit more cash flow because there's less

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Speaker 2: tax going to the tax man, more money for them

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Speaker 2: to invest in their business. And the second thing is

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Speaker 2: how many new investments get brought forward as a result

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Speaker 2: of this policy. That's a bit harder to judge, but

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Speaker 2: when we look around the world at countries who have

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Speaker 2: done policies like this, the evidence is pretty clear that

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Speaker 2: people will make investments they wouldn't have otherwise made. And

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Speaker 2: that's what we've reflected in our costings, that's what we've

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Speaker 2: reflected in the estimates. And frankly, if we over deliver

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Speaker 2: on this and it costs more because more people are investing,

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Speaker 2: I think the growth dividend will be well worth it,

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Speaker 2: because that means bigger jobs, more pay more opportunities for

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Speaker 2: New Zealanders.

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Speaker 1: I note also this coverage this morning on the business

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Speaker 1: of this outsourcing of elective operations to the private sector.

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Speaker 1: I can't work out what's the problem with it. If

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Speaker 1: you can't do it publicly and you give it to

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Speaker 1: somebody else to do and it gets done and therefore

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Speaker 1: it reduces a waiting list, why do people moan about that?

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately, some people always get bogged down in ideology, don't they.

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Speaker 2: Whereas I think most New Zealanders just want to get

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Speaker 2: their hip operation or their cataract operation sooner, and Simeon

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Speaker 2: Brown is absolutely focused on that target, which is why

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Speaker 2: he's saying, let's make use of some of those empty

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Speaker 2: operating theaters in the private sector. Many of our doctors

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Speaker 2: and specialists work in those hospitals week to week anyway,

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Speaker 2: so it's not a big change in that sense. But

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Speaker 2: let's get them on longer term contracts so they can

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Speaker 2: predict how many operations they'll be doing and get more

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Speaker 2: people the care that they need sooner. So this is

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Speaker 2: a good policy, but you can ever deal with the

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Speaker 2: idea logs.

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Speaker 1: They're always out there before he took to his sick bed,

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Speaker 1: Crystal bal Luxen called the super debate and no brainer.

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Speaker 1: And I'm assuming you guys are going to the election

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Speaker 1: next year with it. How do you introduce it, what

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Speaker 1: age do you go to over what period of time,

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Speaker 1: and how much political capital do you think you will burn?

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Speaker 2: Well, those are conversations our caucus will need to have

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Speaker 2: ahead of the election because we think it's very important

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Speaker 2: that if there were to be any change to this

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Speaker 2: really major entitlement that many New Zealanders are relying on

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Speaker 2: for their retirement, that one we're upfront about what we're

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Speaker 2: planning to change, but two that we give people time

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Speaker 2: to prepare and to plan because it could be a

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Speaker 2: significant change. We haven't had those discussions yet. Everyone knows

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Speaker 2: that at the last election we campaigned on a gradual

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Speaker 2: increase in the age of eligibility, reflecting the fact that

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Speaker 2: people are working longer and living longer, and that we

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Speaker 2: signaled that that would be several years out from the

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Speaker 2: time of announcement. So we'll have another discussion as a caucus.

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Speaker 2: The thing is, we're all realists in the National Party.

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Speaker 2: The cost of superannuation to current and future tax payers

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Speaker 2: is growing significantly and at some point a future government

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Speaker 2: is either going to have to slap a lot more

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Speaker 2: tax on people or is going to have to front

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Speaker 2: up to whether the settings can be tweaked a little bit.

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Speaker 1: What's your sense of whether people will I mean, I

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Speaker 1: loo looked around various countries. We are a bit of

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Speaker 1: an outlier. Most people are above sixty five these days,

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Speaker 1: with an exception. I'm looking at Singapore and Germany. But

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Speaker 1: apart from that, what's your assessment of whether people get

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Speaker 1: it or you're in for a fight.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think people treasure New Zealand superannuation. Even people

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Speaker 2: who have their own retirement savings and are on good

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Speaker 2: incomes feel I think that they've paid tax their whole life.

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Speaker 2: They often haven't taken much from the government, but the

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Speaker 2: one thing that they're looking forward to is that superannuation

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Speaker 2: at age sixty five. Now, I don't think that it

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Speaker 2: is a terrible compromise to be able to say to

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Speaker 2: some people, well, look you are to get it, but

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Speaker 2: you need to wait a bit longer. But we'll need

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Speaker 2: to weigh all of that up and be clear about

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Speaker 2: when that is and who that's going to affect.

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Speaker 1: All right. I appreciate you time. Nicholas All the Finance

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Speaker 1: minister in for the Prime Minister this Monday morning. We

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Speaker 1: think the Prime Minister we're sort of sorting something out,

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Speaker 1: probably for Thursday morning. For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast,

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Speaker 1: listen live to news talks that'd be from six am weekdays,

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Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio