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Speaker 1: Politics Wednesday. Mark Mitchell' whether's along with Ginny Anderson, Good

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Speaker 1: morning to you both.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Mike, morning.

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Speaker 3: Jenny, Good morning, Mark, Good morning, Mike, Genny.

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Speaker 1: I have you got any Rhodes scholars on the Justice

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Speaker 1: Select Committee there? I'm looking at the list of names.

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Speaker 1: Who's who's your brightest member?

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Speaker 3: Apart from David's a doctor, so he might squeak in, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: he's been a lecturer.

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Speaker 1: Duncan web useless cabinet minister according to Audrey Young, but

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Speaker 1: coming back for a strong finish, well.

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Speaker 3: I think you're going to need more skills than Rhodes

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Speaker 3: scholarship to handle some of the issues that'll be throwing

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Speaker 3: at that committee. It'll be a tough time.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, who's the weak link there?

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Speaker 3: I think, Oh goodness, where would I start? I think

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Speaker 3: it's going to be really hard to cheer it if

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Speaker 3: things get right.

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Speaker 1: So Mega's in for a tough time. James Meaghan, I.

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Speaker 3: Think he will be in for a tough time.

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Speaker 1: Great opening, Belle, never been heard from.

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Speaker 3: Since I've cheered that committee myself, and and I know

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Speaker 3: from experience through tough bills that it can be hard,

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Speaker 3: and this will be that. I'd say the hardest.

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Speaker 1: One's I reckon, What what's this Jamie Arbuckle like deputy chair.

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Speaker 3: Oh, he's pretty quiet. He makes a good morning tea.

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Speaker 3: I'll say that when it's his turn.

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Speaker 1: Good on the morning teams. Taku Taku Tar Ferris Tucker's

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Speaker 1: is good. Yeah, he's I reckon.

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Speaker 3: He's going to go on lively character. Well, it will

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Speaker 3: be interesting to see how it plays out because you

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Speaker 3: will have people you have Pobson's Pledge, who are pro

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Speaker 3: the bill. You'll have groups that are anti. So it

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Speaker 3: will depend on how they come, how they present themselves.

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Speaker 1: The whole thing where you said you can't swear, Do

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Speaker 1: you think that's going to come to pass or do

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Speaker 1: you think you're dreaming?

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Speaker 3: No, I think that will come to pass. That's unparliamentary language.

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Speaker 1: So I was dancing on the floor, but that didn't

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Speaker 1: stop them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I think also the age wherein now we

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Speaker 3: have zoom a lot more and so one around the

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Speaker 3: country instead of coming in. So if someone is it's

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Speaker 3: a lot easier to handle a submission that gets out

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Speaker 3: of hand if it's on his zoom.

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Speaker 2: Call Mark.

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Speaker 1: Do you feel you strike me? I mean I might,

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Speaker 1: I know you reasonably well, I guess, but do you

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Speaker 1: do you strike me as a sort of a person

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Speaker 1: who doesn't mind a bit of decorum and manners. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what we're seeing at the moment is not good for

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Speaker 1: this country, is it.

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 4: And that's what we raise our kids, so I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I know it sounds very simplicit, but my mum raised

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Speaker 4: me to treat others as how you'd have them treat you,

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Speaker 4: and I think that we should apply that to the House.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't mean that you can't be robust to bake,

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Speaker 4: but there should be decorum and people should treat each

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Speaker 4: other with respect. I don't like when it becomes personally.

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Speaker 4: I don't think there's any need for that. I think

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Speaker 4: in terms of the Select Committee, Jones Megan will do

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Speaker 4: an outstanding job of cheering that that's a good committee.

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Speaker 4: Having been a Select Committee cheer myself. He will enforce

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Speaker 4: and make sure that there is a standard behavior that

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Speaker 4: is expected, and if that is not meant, then he

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Speaker 4: will just quite something. He asked to submit us to

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Speaker 4: leave the committee and.

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Speaker 1: That's the end of that. You guys, Ginny, I know

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Speaker 1: you don't speak on behalf of the whole party, but

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Speaker 1: to my PI Clark in terms of suspension and voting

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Speaker 1: for you guys sided with her? Why and do you

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Speaker 1: run a very real risk of being tainted and associated

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Speaker 1: permanently with a bunch of radicals.

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Speaker 3: We stand against what David Seymour's bill proposes to do,

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Speaker 3: and we stand against the racial division that it causes

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Speaker 3: in New Zealand, and we would like the Prime Minister

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Speaker 3: to show some leadership and shut that down. Imagine this,

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Speaker 3: Imagine if a luxeen got up one day and said, actually,

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Speaker 3: this is causing New Zealand hurt, this is dividing us. David,

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Speaker 3: we don't want this bill to proceed through six months

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Speaker 3: at Select committee. Do you really think that David Seymour

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Speaker 3: is going to say I'm going to be a deputy

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Speaker 3: prime minister in about you know, four or five months,

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Speaker 3: but I'll give all that up and split the government.

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Speaker 3: I mean, he's not going to walk away. So I

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Speaker 3: think this demands that Luckson shows some leadership in a

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Speaker 3: situation that's causing our country a lot of pots.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so no, that's your stance and I take that accepted.

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Speaker 1: But in might be Clark's case, you didn't vote to censure.

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Speaker 1: Why not?

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Speaker 3: We stand with the view that the way this bill

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Speaker 3: has proceeded, we do not like it.

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Speaker 1: So we believe separate rules.

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Speaker 2: You're supported disorder in the House.

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Speaker 3: What we are supporting is that the way the House

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Speaker 3: is run is unacceptable and the ongoing issues that have

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Speaker 3: been undermining the Maori, not just the Maori Party, but

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Speaker 3: the Marti people. I listened to Christopher Luxen on the

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Speaker 3: radio this morning and he said, well that we you know,

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Speaker 3: he doesn't like the bill even though it's proceeding to

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Speaker 3: six months at Select Committee, but he'll continue with doing

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Speaker 3: things such as they've disestablished the Maori Health Authority, They've

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Speaker 3: done a whole range of other things like removing Maori

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Speaker 3: language from government departments. He'll continue with doing. He thinks

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Speaker 3: that's a far more effective way of addressing the issue of.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't answer the question why he didn't sense since

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Speaker 1: you might be.

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Speaker 3: Clark, because we believe that what they're doing is wrong

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Speaker 3: and we want to tend to gain.

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Speaker 1: So it doesn't matter what the Maori Party do in

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Speaker 1: the Parliament. Break all the rules, no problem, that's good

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Speaker 1: with you.

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Speaker 3: I did not say that. I said in that particular

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Speaker 3: instance that you raised when we had a bill going

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Speaker 3: through this House that Luxon has the power to stop,

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Speaker 3: but it's not going to take that.

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Speaker 4: We believe what you are saying, though you're saying that

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Speaker 4: chaotic or disrespectful behavior in the House of Representatives is acceptable.

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Speaker 3: I did not say that. I think you're putting words

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Speaker 3: to my mouth. Mark, would you like me to answer?

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Speaker 1: You answered it from the we don't like the policy.

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Speaker 1: I get that, everyone gets that, but you're not the one. Well,

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Speaker 1: some of you guys actually were breaking the rules in

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Speaker 1: the house. Why is that acceptable?

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Speaker 3: Because we're standing against a position we feel incredibly strongly about,

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Speaker 3: and that's the Treaty of White Tongy Principles Bill.

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Speaker 1: So is that your Marker, If you feel incredibly strongly

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Speaker 1: about something, you can break any rule the rules.

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Speaker 2: Yep, this particular I wouldn't.

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Speaker 3: We will not be breaking the rules and we have

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Speaker 3: not done that over a number of the other but

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Speaker 3: this issue, this issue bought fifty thousand people peaceilly out

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Speaker 3: the front of Parliament. He said, that's how strongly people

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Speaker 3: feel about it.

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Speaker 2: Mark.

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Speaker 1: The problem with Shane Jones and Jerry Browne and all

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Speaker 1: of the standing orders thing is is I mean, can

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Speaker 1: they actually for a party Mariy that don't mind having

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Speaker 1: their pay suspended or they love attention. So what can

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Speaker 1: standing orders do if they wanted to do something that

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Speaker 1: would actually be effective.

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Speaker 4: Look, I don't know that is a very good question,

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Speaker 4: because I agree with you. I don't think that the

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Speaker 4: moment they care about any sentience that will be applied

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Speaker 4: in our parliament. They just think that they can do

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Speaker 4: what they like, behave like the way that they want

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Speaker 4: to intimidate whomever they want. And it just astounds me

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Speaker 4: and amazes me that you've got a senior member of

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Speaker 4: the Labor Party on the show with us saying that

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Speaker 4: we support that and that if you feel passionate about something,

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Speaker 4: you can break the rules. And if we all applied

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Speaker 4: that rule in this country, we'd live in chaos.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I think you're coming from Mark like, I just

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Speaker 3: like to acknowledge that I do see your point. But

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Speaker 3: the point that I don't think that you're understanding is

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Speaker 3: this means a lot to a lot of New Zealanders.

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Speaker 1: A lot of stuff brings a lot of stuff to

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Speaker 1: New Zealanders. We don't all take the law into our

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Speaker 1: own hands and go nuts.

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Speaker 3: This This brought over fifty thousand people out the front

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Speaker 3: of Parliament to peacefully march to say that we want

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Speaker 3: a treaty of WAITANGI. We've signed it up as two people.

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Speaker 3: It does mean that it's a partnership. And I want

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Speaker 3: to bring up my children in a country that has unity,

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Speaker 3: not division.

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Speaker 1: And we want to bring up in our children in

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Speaker 1: a country where law isn't taken into it. There is

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Speaker 1: respect and dignity, and some morals, and some professionalism and

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Speaker 1: some adult behavior.

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Speaker 2: Especially men we're lawmakers. I mean, it's just incredible.

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Speaker 3: You completely agree, I completely agree, I completely agree. But

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Speaker 3: why does not Christopher Luxon have the same standard in

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Speaker 3: terms of the way he's treating the parliamentary process, which

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Speaker 3: is an absolute shocker. He is absolutely disrespecting our parliamentary

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Speaker 3: process by putting a built to select committee that he

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Speaker 3: has no intention of voting for at the second reading.

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Speaker 3: He's wasting our time, he's wasting taxpayers money, and he's

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Speaker 3: making an absolute joke of the system about that sort

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Speaker 3: of behavior. That sort of behavior elicits huckers in the

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Speaker 3: House and elicits fifty five thousand people coming to the

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Speaker 3: front steps of.

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Speaker 4: Harlem's I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I completely refute that that

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Speaker 4: what your argument quite something is this, if you feel

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Speaker 4: strongly and passionately about something, you get to break the laws.

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Speaker 4: And there's lots of people in this country that feel

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Speaker 4: very passionate and strongly about issues, Jenny, But you, as

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Speaker 4: a lawmaker, should be saying the laws are important, the

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Speaker 4: rules are important, we should all adhere to those. But

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Speaker 4: that's not what you're saying.

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Speaker 3: You're passionate about what you're saying. Mark, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I totally you what you're saying. I totally you're saying.

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Speaker 3: And what I say to that is that Christopher Luxen

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Speaker 3: is completely right.

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Speaker 1: But you know, Jenny, you at no point except that

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Speaker 1: hen Ray, Willie Jackson, the Maori Party, that's all acceptable

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Speaker 1: as far as you're concerned, given the circumstances in the

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Speaker 1: specific case.

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Speaker 3: This issue goes to the core of who we are

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Speaker 3: as New Zealanders. And I'm proud to stand.

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Speaker 1: Up and that's fine by you.

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Speaker 3: If we are going to talk about rewriting the Treaty

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Speaker 3: of White.

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Speaker 1: We're not rewriting the treaty. See, this is part of

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Speaker 1: the problem. We are not that you've got. We are

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Speaker 1: not rewriting the treaty we are defining principles that haven't

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Speaker 1: been defined by the Parliament of New Zealand.

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Speaker 3: You have forty Kings Council lawyers who are that's.

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Speaker 1: Not that's not rewriting the treaty.

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Speaker 3: By rewriting the principles you are.

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Speaker 1: You're not rewriting the principles either, You're defining the principles

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Speaker 1: by the Parliament.

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Speaker 3: Of the country. Will disagree on that because it is rewriting.

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Speaker 4: Michae is right about that. But it comes back to

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Speaker 4: the port. I think you need to go back and

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Speaker 4: have a serious talk with christ and say we've got

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Speaker 4: this terribly wrong. We shouldn't be advocating, we shouldn't be

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Speaker 4: supporting that. If you feel passionately about passionate about an issue,

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Speaker 4: you can break the laws, you can intimidate people, you

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Speaker 4: can threaten people these that that is completely canintuitive to

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Speaker 4: the message that we.

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Speaker 3: Should you're what you're supporting. This bill has driven racial

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Speaker 3: division in New Zealand and that lends at national parties feet.

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Speaker 3: But what you've done by enabling.

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Speaker 2: This stake that up and we.

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Speaker 3: Want to shut it down. We don't want it to

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Speaker 3: go to committee, we don't want it to go to

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Speaker 3: select commits.

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Speaker 4: Should you're the party that you should be a responsible,

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Speaker 4: serious political party and take a very firm stand and

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Speaker 4: support this the Speaker of the House and making sure

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Speaker 4: that the rules are obeyed, because if they aren't obeyed

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Speaker 4: there then what does that what does it signal?

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Speaker 2: Does that send to the rest of the country.

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Speaker 1: Good discussion. Nice to see you, guys, Mike Mitchell, Jinny Anderson.

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Speaker 4: For more from The Mike Asking Breakfast, listen live to

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Speaker 4: news talks it'd be from six am weekdays, or follow

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Speaker 4: the podcast on iHeartRadio.