1 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:08,640 Speaker 1: Cure. I'm Susie nordquiston for Chelsea Daniels and this is 2 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: the Front Page, a daily podcast presented by the New 3 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: Zealand Herald. Feral or roaming dogs have been causing concern 4 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 1: in remote parts of New Zealand for years, but now 5 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: things are getting so bad trampers have been told they 6 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: risk being attacked if they walk alone. It's prompted calls 7 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: for drastic action to be taken to curb the issue. 8 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: But what tools do we have at our disposal to 9 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: manage the problem and how has it gotten so bad? 10 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: Today on the Front Page, we're joined by New Zealand 11 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: Herald Premium Content Development Deputy editor Hannah Brown, who has 12 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: been looking into this issue. Hannah, just how bad has 13 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: our feral dog problem become? 14 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 2: Well, it kind of in twenty twenty one. I talked 15 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 2: to a farmer last week who said he and his 16 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 2: two neighbors between them have shot ninety dogs since twenty 17 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 2: twenty one. That included five in the last two months. 18 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 2: So in twenty twenty one there was a big push 19 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:19,320 Speaker 2: to eradicate them and a whole bunch was shot. And 20 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 2: so now you could say there's a ragtag bunch of 21 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 2: dogs still out there by the sounds of it. 22 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: And many of us will remember the issues with the 23 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: giant pack of dogs and the Far North from about 24 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,320 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. And what areas of New Zealand are 25 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: we seeing these wild dogs and how difficult are they 26 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: to track down? 27 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 2: Well, it seems like the worst problems in the Far 28 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 2: North around Tippaki region, but we've also seen them further 29 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 2: down in Northland round Fangad. There's been some in the 30 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 2: central North Island to Udawda and Taranaki and the South Island. 31 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 2: So it basically sounds like any remote region can suffer 32 00:01:58,880 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 2: from this. 33 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: What sort of problem do these dogs pose to farmland? 34 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 2: Well, you know that worst problem In twenty twenty one 35 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 2: you had one farmer lose one hundred and twenty stock 36 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 2: and so yeah, it can be a major problem. And 37 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 2: the farmers that seem to have the most problem with 38 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:17,399 Speaker 2: this kind of thing tend to be the ones who 39 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 2: border on dockland or forestry land. So you know, these 40 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 2: dogs can run one hundred kilometers a day, so they're like, 41 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 2: you know, they're in these big tracts of public land 42 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 2: or forestry land. And if you have a farm next 43 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 2: to that, then you can be a target. 44 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:38,359 Speaker 3: One of the. 45 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 4: Farmers we were talking to who's lost a lot of stock. 46 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 4: It's been going on on is properly for thirty years, 47 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 4: but I'll bet it's been going on for a lot 48 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 4: longer than that. There's a huge economic impact for farmers. 49 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 4: We've spoken to farmers. We've just given up on raising 50 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 4: sheep because there's no point. They just get killed. So 51 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 4: it's switched over the cattle. 52 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 1: Okay, And it's not just farmers, right. What advice has 53 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,239 Speaker 1: been issued to trampers and hikers walking through the bush? 54 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, there have been quite a few reports over the 55 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 2: years from trampers that they've spotted dogs. Several I think 56 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 2: five dock tracks have been closed in the last few years. 57 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 2: While there's been a sweep by hunters to try and 58 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 2: track down these dogs. There haven't been any attacks by 59 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 2: dogs on trampers. But people are being told in the 60 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 2: far North around you know, the out door track, they're 61 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 2: being told to have a stick if a dog is 62 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 2: not aggressive, go around it, and to travel in pairs. 63 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: And what about wildlife? What's the risk there? 64 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 3: Oh? 65 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 2: This has been I mean, this is one of the 66 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 2: things that upsets people the most. Since twenty eighteen, there 67 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 2: have been eighty nine kiwi known to be killed by dogs, 68 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 2: another thirty five more dead kiwi likely to have been 69 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 2: killed by dogs, and of course that doesn't include the 70 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 2: dogs we don't know about. 71 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: So yeah, really tragic. 72 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 2: And also not just kiwi, but penguins, seal pups, rare snails, 73 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 2: all sorts of wildlife. 74 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: And what could happen to wildlife like kiwi if this 75 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: problem persists. 76 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 2: Well, a single dog can kill lots of kiwi in 77 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 2: one night, so you know that's really of concern. 78 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: And if a pet dog gets violence, we love blaming 79 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: the owner. Is there any one personal group that can 80 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: be blamed for this problem getting so out of hand? Well, 81 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: I mean it looks like if you track this back, 82 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: the much bigger problem is domestic dogs not being well 83 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: looked after. Full domestic dogs were well looked after, we 84 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: wouldn't have a feral dog problem. 85 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,479 Speaker 2: So you know, there have been eighty six dog attacks 86 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 2: on kids in Auckland since only April, so you know 87 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 2: there were calls in this story, you know, by farmers 88 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 2: for there to be a licensing system for dot So 89 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 2: you know, I think it is something that people are 90 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 2: starting to realize if we're not going to look after 91 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:08,239 Speaker 2: our domestic dogs properly, we're going to have these problems. 92 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 3: We need fu L dinners who are not being responsible 93 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 3: to really step up and make sure that they're looking 94 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 3: after their animals. And right now, our most expensive registration 95 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 3: is only one hundred and thirty two dollars per in them. 96 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 3: The cheapest right now is about eighty dollars. Man, if 97 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 3: you want to have a dog, you bloody look after 98 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 3: your dog. You make sure it's well treated. Please make 99 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 3: sure that it's got its vaccinations that you get at 100 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 3: d SXT and everything. 101 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: What have officials said about this problem? Are they aware 102 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 1: of just how bad it has become? 103 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 5: Well? 104 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:47,359 Speaker 2: I spoke in depth to Mayreen Hardybirch, who's the regional 105 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 2: manager for DOC in the Far North. She's got thirty 106 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 2: years of experience and was amazing on this topic, and 107 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 2: she said that she's had conversations with MPI with the SPCA. 108 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 2: The SPC told me that they are quite concerned about 109 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 2: feral dogs and they've been lobbying MPI on various aspects 110 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 2: of this problem for years. And I've got an Official 111 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 2: Information Act request in with MPI. I did make a 112 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 2: couple of requests for an interview with them and I 113 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 2: didn't get a response in time, but I'm still hoping 114 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 2: to get that interview. 115 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 1: You touched on the possibility of licensing dog owners. What 116 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: are some other solutions that are being proposed to tackle this? 117 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 2: Well, this is a super tricky topic, both politically and 118 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 2: for those at the grassroots on the ground dealing with 119 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 2: this problem. 120 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: You know. 121 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 2: Marine Hardy Birch, the dock regional manager in the Far North. 122 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 2: She didn't have any easy answers. She said that the 123 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 2: legal options available are shooting the dogs, which is what 124 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:01,919 Speaker 2: is currently happening. So doc hires sharpshoe basically hunters to 125 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 2: kill the dogs when they become aware of them in 126 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 2: the bush, and farmers are allowed to kill the dogs 127 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 2: on their own property if they're threatening them of their animals, 128 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 2: so that's what's happening at the moment. You can also 129 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 2: trap them, however, these dogs are just so clever they're 130 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 2: not going to go for that most of the time. 131 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 2: So those are the two options available at the moment. 132 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 2: Marine Hardy Birch said that it might be getting to 133 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 2: the point in New Zealand where we need to look 134 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 2: at some options, such as Australia has they use toxins 135 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 2: and poisons. She was kind of at pains to point 136 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 2: out that where you know, everybody cares about these being 137 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 2: humane options, are there even options that are humane enough? 138 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 2: SPCA is asking the same question. It's very unclear. 139 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, they had no fear or human they it was 140 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 5: either me or the dog. It's only time before before 141 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 5: they'll come out and get some little kid and plan 142 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 5: on the g NS or a tourist walker. 143 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: And you had a conversation with Doc recently about what 144 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: they are doing to tackle this problem in the Far 145 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: and North. What did they say at the moment. 146 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 2: They're doing a sweep of the Far North ahead of 147 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 2: the tramping season with those hunters, so they're going through 148 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 2: all those really large tracts of bush and forestry land 149 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 2: just to flush out any dogs ahead of the tramping 150 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:34,079 Speaker 2: season to keep people safe. 151 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: What does the law say about poisoning feral dogs. Definitely 152 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: no poisoning of feral dogs. It's not lawful in New Zealand, 153 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: it's lawful in Australia. If anything of that nature was 154 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: going to be tested here, it would need some political 155 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: will it would need a lot of groups to get 156 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: together and collaborate on that. That would be the. 157 00:08:55,400 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 2: SPCA, doc MPI, and we're miles away from that at 158 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 2: the moment. 159 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: And I understand some farmers are taking matters into their 160 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: own hands when it comes to the issue of wild dogs. 161 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, they've had to be really creative. I mean when 162 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 2: this issue really blew up in twenty twenty one, you know, 163 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 2: it was a huge community effort to support the farmers 164 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 2: who were getting their stock killed at night by these dogs. 165 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:24,319 Speaker 2: So you had volunteers from around those far North communities 166 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 2: helping those farmers. They did all sorts of things. They 167 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 2: put a dog in heat in a cage to attract 168 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 2: feral dogs onto the farm where they. 169 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: Could be shot. 170 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 2: They caught a feral dog and they called her a 171 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 2: Judas dog. They were putting a electric collar on her 172 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 2: and hoping she'd go running with a pack that would 173 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 2: enable them to find the pack. Unfortunately, she went off 174 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 2: and lived by herself, so it didn't work. So yeah, 175 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 2: the farmers are the ones who have had to come 176 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 2: up with the most creative solutions because they're the ones 177 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:02,559 Speaker 2: with the animals being killed on them farm. 178 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 6: When you like knights out in the cold and the wet, 179 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 6: looking through thermal imaging cameras and scopes. This one was 180 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 6: stalking my sister when she shot it, and that one 181 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 6: was caught amongst my Stop. 182 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: Hannah, you said that one dog owner wants authorities to 183 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:24,839 Speaker 1: take some pretty drastic action. Can you tell us a 184 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 1: bit more about that. Yeah. 185 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 2: One of the farmers I spoke to in the Far North, 186 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 2: John Nilson. He suggested that domestic dog owners should be licensed, 187 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 2: and that there should be different levels of licensing depending 188 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 2: on whether you want to breed dogs. He considered them 189 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 2: like firearms in the sense that they need to be regulated. 190 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: And if we stand back and do nothing about this problem, 191 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: what could happen? 192 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 2: In your view, well, I guess we are looking at 193 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 2: damage to wildlife and more sightings of dogs in the 194 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 2: wild and potential for attack, although that hasn't happened yet. 195 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 2: The tramper could be attacked and more wildlife could be 196 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 2: damaged and killed. And I guess it's an issue where 197 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 2: we have to balance off the needs of farmers, the 198 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 2: needs of wildlife, the needs of trampers, and the needs 199 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 2: of the dogs themselves, because of course, you know, we 200 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 2: want them to be living a good life too. 201 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 1: How quickly do we need to get on top of 202 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:22,439 Speaker 1: this issue. 203 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 2: Well, Doc's doing it sweet right now. I think they're 204 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 2: doing their best to get on top of it very quickly. 205 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Hannah. That's it for this episode 206 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: of the Front Page. You can read more about today's 207 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: stories and extensive news coverage at zet here al dot 208 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 1: co dot endzet The Front Page is produced by Ethan Sills. 209 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: Patty Fox is a sound engineer. I'm Susie Nordquist. Subscribe 210 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,959 Speaker 1: to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get 211 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 1: your podcasts, and tune and tomorrow for another look behind 212 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:58,079 Speaker 1: the headlines.