WEBVTT - Kiwi mum in US immigration limbo: What are your rights with ICE?

0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:09.120
<v Speaker 1>Kielder. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page,

0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:16.159
<v Speaker 1>a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. A

0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:20.200
<v Speaker 1>New Zealand citizen and her son have been detained by

0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:23.960
<v Speaker 1>Ice in the US. Sarah Show and her six year

0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:27.440
<v Speaker 1>old son were detained at the Canadian border after she

0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:31.400
<v Speaker 1>drove her two eldest children to a Vancouver airport for

0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:35.000
<v Speaker 1>a flight to New Zealand to visit their grandparents. The

0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:39.559
<v Speaker 1>pair are currently sitting in a detention facility in Texas.

0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:44.480
<v Speaker 1>They are two of tens of thousands of people who

0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:48.239
<v Speaker 1>are currently being detained by the agency. Most do not

0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:51.680
<v Speaker 1>have a criminal conviction and are classified as being no

0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:56.320
<v Speaker 1>threat to society. Today on the Front Page, American immigration

0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:59.960
<v Speaker 1>lawyer Minda Thorwood, who was representing the Kiwi being detec

0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:03.720
<v Speaker 1>is with us to discuss Sarah's case and the wider

0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:12.319
<v Speaker 1>issues around US immigration. Linda tell me about Sarah's case,

0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:15.560
<v Speaker 1>how did she and her young son end up in

0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:17.320
<v Speaker 1>a detention center in Texas?

0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:20.760
<v Speaker 2>So she made an error like it was kind of

0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:26.000
<v Speaker 2>an administrative error. She has a pending petition and also

0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:29.160
<v Speaker 2>along with the petition, an application to adjust her status

0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:33.360
<v Speaker 2>to permanent residency here, and along with that application, she

0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:37.040
<v Speaker 2>has the right to work and also travel and return.

0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:41.000
<v Speaker 2>And so in that situation, a combo card is issued

0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:43.480
<v Speaker 2>that is used both as a work permit and as

0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:48.680
<v Speaker 2>a travel document. And when she renewed her travel document

0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:51.560
<v Speaker 2>back in March, she didn't choose to renew her work

0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:53.720
<v Speaker 2>permit because she had no travel plans at that time.

0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:56.200
<v Speaker 2>But when she got her receipt three months later in

0:01:56.280 --> 0:02:02.000
<v Speaker 2>June extending the card, mistakenly believe that it also extended

0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:05.680
<v Speaker 2>her travel document, and so she took her child to

0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:08.799
<v Speaker 2>her children to Canada so that they could fly direct

0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:11.640
<v Speaker 2>to New Zealand to see their grandparents, and then on

0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:13.959
<v Speaker 2>her way back in you know, she was detained. She

0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:18.560
<v Speaker 2>was not permitted to enter because she didn't have a

0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:19.720
<v Speaker 2>valid travel document.

0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:23.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I've read that some protocols weren't followed through, like

0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:26.960
<v Speaker 1>they weren't put into some kind of tracking system for

0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:29.600
<v Speaker 1>a couple of weeks. Can you explain what that is

0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:29.960
<v Speaker 1>to me?

0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:32.440
<v Speaker 2>I think probably what you're referring to is the ICE

0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:37.360
<v Speaker 2>detaining locator system, And what's supposed to happen is that

0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:40.359
<v Speaker 2>when a person is detained by ICE, their information is

0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:45.040
<v Speaker 2>immediately uploaded to a system based on their alien registration

0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:47.880
<v Speaker 2>number so that their lawyers and their family can find

0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:50.960
<v Speaker 2>where they're detained and also you know, contact the facility

0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:55.280
<v Speaker 2>arranged for local council if needed, that kind of thing,

0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:58.280
<v Speaker 2>and they were not put into that system. And we've

0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:01.400
<v Speaker 2>been seeing that more and more. Actually a lot of

0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:03.160
<v Speaker 2>folks who are being detained or not put in the

0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:07.440
<v Speaker 2>system because it is you know, a system of accountability,

0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:10.720
<v Speaker 2>and I think that's something the administration is not looking

0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:11.079
<v Speaker 2>to do.

0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:11.520
<v Speaker 3>Well.

0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:15.239
<v Speaker 1>That sounds terrifying that she hasn't spoken to her family

0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:19.080
<v Speaker 1>or her children and they have literally no idea where

0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:20.160
<v Speaker 1>she is.

0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:23.240
<v Speaker 2>I mean she called me right away, so you know,

0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:25.560
<v Speaker 2>I knew, you know, the day after she was detained

0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:28.000
<v Speaker 2>where she was. And she's also been in touch with

0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:31.640
<v Speaker 2>another friend so she can call out. But had she

0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:33.600
<v Speaker 2>not been able to do that, like, had she not

0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:36.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, money to put on a phone account, we

0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:39.400
<v Speaker 2>would not have been able to find her. So and yes,

0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:41.360
<v Speaker 2>it is very stressful and very terrifying.

0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:43.800
<v Speaker 1>So what are the next steps now?

0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:49.760
<v Speaker 2>So now we're we're waiting for USCIS to adjudicate her petition.

0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:53.080
<v Speaker 2>I've filed a Van Dama's complaint. There was an interview

0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:55.240
<v Speaker 2>today and we're just waiting to find out what happens,

0:03:56.520 --> 0:03:59.440
<v Speaker 2>and then from there it's kind of going to be

0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:02.839
<v Speaker 2>up to DHS in a lot of ways. So once

0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:05.920
<v Speaker 2>the petition is approved, she's eligible to adjust her status

0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:08.840
<v Speaker 2>to become a permanent resident. She's still eligible. That hasn't changed,

0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:12.320
<v Speaker 2>and so the question is whether she'd be doing that

0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:15.920
<v Speaker 2>before a judge an immigration court, or doing that affirmatively

0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:19.480
<v Speaker 2>before cis if her proceedings are terminated and her son,

0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:24.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, he has a travel document, so he's he can,

0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:27.680
<v Speaker 2>he's admissible. There's no reason that he should be in attention.

0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:31.120
<v Speaker 2>It's unlawful, and nor should he be in a rule

0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:33.920
<v Speaker 2>of proceedings because he was authorized to travel and come

0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:37.479
<v Speaker 2>back and has a valid pending adjustment application as well.

0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:38.920
<v Speaker 1>And how long could all those take.

0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:43.320
<v Speaker 2>It's I mean, I'm hoping the petition is adjudicated the

0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:46.400
<v Speaker 2>next couple of weeks. I really can't say. I really

0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:53.680
<v Speaker 2>don't know, and then beyond that, it's really uncertain she

0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:58.520
<v Speaker 2>could I mean hopefully. I mean, if all things go

0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:02.000
<v Speaker 2>exceptionally fast, i'd say it all taken care of within

0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:04.080
<v Speaker 2>a few months. But I mean people are in rural

0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:06.440
<v Speaker 2>proceedings for years and years. I don't think that's going

0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:09.159
<v Speaker 2>to happen here because of so much pressure from elected

0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:12.920
<v Speaker 2>representatives and so much media attention. But it is something

0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:15.480
<v Speaker 2>that does happen well.

0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:18.160
<v Speaker 1>And the fact of the matter is not everyone has

0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:20.440
<v Speaker 1>the luxury, like you said, even to have money to

0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:22.599
<v Speaker 1>put on a phone card, to be able to call

0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:26.919
<v Speaker 1>the lawyer or the media. Attention or of her place

0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:28.960
<v Speaker 1>of work. I think has been really vocal as well.

0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:31.960
<v Speaker 2>She's got a groundswell of support here for sure.

0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:36.280
<v Speaker 1>And too here in New Zealand, we often hear about

0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:40.880
<v Speaker 1>these things. We hear about stories of tourists getting detained.

0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.600
<v Speaker 1>For example, we see videos of people being plucked off

0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:49.360
<v Speaker 1>of the street. Is there a real threat of this

0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:52.640
<v Speaker 1>happening to Kiwis who may be traveling in the US?

0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:57.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean I think there's a real threat to anyone, unfortunately, anyone.

0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:03.240
<v Speaker 2>I think the threat is much greater for people who

0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:07.000
<v Speaker 2>are not white, unfortunately. I think that's a very sad

0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:09.599
<v Speaker 2>thing to say in twenty twenty five in the United States,

0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:13.000
<v Speaker 2>but that is that is a true statement. But I mean,

0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:14.880
<v Speaker 2>I think there's going to be a lot more draconian

0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:18.160
<v Speaker 2>enforcement of just people who are overseeing their be visas,

0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:23.280
<v Speaker 2>even innocently, you know, just I'm you know, somebody's here

0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:25.080
<v Speaker 2>on vacation and having a good time, and maybe they're

0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:27.560
<v Speaker 2>young and they're not paying attention. Like there's just going

0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:30.640
<v Speaker 2>to be some really you know, just like I said,

0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:32.120
<v Speaker 2>d'arconian enforcement happening.

0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:37.479
<v Speaker 4>Your Secretary of State says everyone who's here, citizens and

0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:40.640
<v Speaker 4>non citizens, deserve to process. Do you agree, mister, I

0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:41.040
<v Speaker 4>don't know.

0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:42.680
<v Speaker 5>I'm not a lawyer.

0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:43.800
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:45.719
<v Speaker 4>Well, the Fifth Amendment, I don't know.

0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:49.640
<v Speaker 5>It seems it might say that, But if you're talking

0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:51.760
<v Speaker 5>about that, then we'd have to have a million or

0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:54.880
<v Speaker 5>two million, or three million trials. We have thousands of

0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:57.800
<v Speaker 5>people that are some murderers and some drug dealers and

0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:00.080
<v Speaker 5>some of the worst people on earth, but some of

0:06:59.920 --> 0:07:03.080
<v Speaker 5>the worst, most dangerous people on earth. And I was

0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:05.640
<v Speaker 5>elected to get them the hell out of here, and

0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:07.640
<v Speaker 5>the courts are holding me from doing it.

0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:12.320
<v Speaker 4>But even given those numbers that you're talking about, don't

0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:14.480
<v Speaker 4>you need to uphold the Constitution of the United States

0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:14.920
<v Speaker 4>as present?

0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:15.880
<v Speaker 5>I don't know.

0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:21.760
<v Speaker 1>What advice do you have for people who may get

0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:24.840
<v Speaker 1>picked up by an ICE officer, for example, what are

0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:26.000
<v Speaker 1>your rights?

0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:32.720
<v Speaker 2>So you do have a right to contact a lawyer.

0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:34.880
<v Speaker 2>You do have a right to be represented by a

0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:38.120
<v Speaker 2>lawyer at your own expense. So it's not like a

0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:43.200
<v Speaker 2>criminal case where you would be provided representation by the government.

0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:45.320
<v Speaker 2>You have to pay for it yourself. But you do

0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:49.640
<v Speaker 2>have those rights, and I mean there are other rights

0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:55.080
<v Speaker 2>as well. You know, I would say if it's possible

0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:59.840
<v Speaker 2>to remain silent. People are really bullied into admitting things

0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:03.640
<v Speaker 2>to law enforcement when they actually should should say, like,

0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:08.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, I unless there are US citizen and they're

0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:09.640
<v Speaker 2>just trying to assert that right. You know, I have

0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.560
<v Speaker 2>a US citizen, don't attain me. Everyone else if there

0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:16.400
<v Speaker 2>are immigration status is uncertain or they don't they're afraid,

0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:18.440
<v Speaker 2>then just say I want to speak to earlier and

0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:18.880
<v Speaker 2>that's it.

0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:22.360
<v Speaker 1>Do you think ICE has gone too far in its

0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:25.120
<v Speaker 1>enforcement of immigration laws in the US?

0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:25.920
<v Speaker 5>Oh?

0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:30.800
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, it has absolutely gone too far. I mean, nobody

0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:32.439
<v Speaker 2>wants to live in a police state.

0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:32.560
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:36.480
<v Speaker 2>I mean that is what has been so wonderful about

0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:38.920
<v Speaker 2>the US. You know, we've been a beacon of democracy

0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:42.920
<v Speaker 2>for a long time, and that is unfortunately not in danger.

0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:46.559
<v Speaker 2>We are seeing an assault on democracy and solid the

0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:51.240
<v Speaker 2>rule of law, on ice officers detaining US citizens and

0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:54.520
<v Speaker 2>just you know, anyone who has brown skin or an accent.

0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:57.200
<v Speaker 2>I mean, they really are going too far.

0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:06.240
<v Speaker 1>Correct me if I'm wrong. But Trump said that he

0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:10.280
<v Speaker 1>wanted to deport the worst of the worst, and presumably

0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:13.640
<v Speaker 1>that meant people with serious criminal convictions. But I read

0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:16.920
<v Speaker 1>a statistic just from last month showing that seventy two

0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:22.760
<v Speaker 1>percent of people detained have in fact no criminal convictions.

0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:25.640
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I can't verify that statistic, but that sounds

0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:30.560
<v Speaker 2>right to me. I mean, Trump has been Trump has

0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:33.120
<v Speaker 2>said a lot of things, and much of it has

0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:39.080
<v Speaker 2>not been true. And you know, he's not just going

0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:42.360
<v Speaker 2>after criminals. He's going after everyday people who are just

0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:46.040
<v Speaker 2>hard working people who just don't happen to not have

0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:48.400
<v Speaker 2>the right documents. And that's it. That's the only thing

0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:51.640
<v Speaker 2>they've done is exist in the US without the right papers.

0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:56.080
<v Speaker 2>And it's really unfortunate and just really, I just I

0:09:56.120 --> 0:10:00.480
<v Speaker 2>find I'm horrified by it. Helt to be honest. I mean,

0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:03.200
<v Speaker 2>I practice immigration law for the first ROMP administration, and

0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:06.199
<v Speaker 2>this is just ten times worse, or maybe even a

0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:07.320
<v Speaker 2>thousand times worse.

0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:10.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I saw that the White House gave the agency

0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:14.800
<v Speaker 1>a quota of three thousand arrests a day, and that's

0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:17.600
<v Speaker 1>up from six hundred and fifty in the first five

0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:23.000
<v Speaker 1>months of Trump's second term. Arrests obviously have shot up,

0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:25.920
<v Speaker 1>But is there a fear that with a quota, I

0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:31.520
<v Speaker 1>guess comes that added pressure on agents therefore problematic enforcement.

0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:34.760
<v Speaker 2>I mean, and that's exactly what's happening. People are trying

0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:37.559
<v Speaker 2>to meet their quotas, and so they're not just attaining

0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:40.000
<v Speaker 2>criminals like there the worst of the worst. They're detaining

0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:42.800
<v Speaker 2>anybody just so they can meet their quota. And I

0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:44.920
<v Speaker 2>think what ends up happening is that when you have

0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:48.160
<v Speaker 2>a quota based system that's focused on numbers instead of

0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:51.360
<v Speaker 2>on people, is that you end up dehumanizing the people

0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:53.959
<v Speaker 2>that are being detained. You don't see that person as

0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:56.520
<v Speaker 2>a person with a family and a job and a

0:10:56.559 --> 0:10:59.480
<v Speaker 2>community here. You see them as just, oh, the thirty

0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:02.280
<v Speaker 2>seventh percent that I rounded up today, we're a thirty

0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:05.040
<v Speaker 2>seventh alien, you know, like we don't even don't use

0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:08.959
<v Speaker 2>the term person. They don't see them as people. They

0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:13.200
<v Speaker 2>just see them as you know, interlopers. And that's just

0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.280
<v Speaker 2>not true. These people are all part of our communities

0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:19.559
<v Speaker 2>and they have rights that we should honor.

0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:24.080
<v Speaker 6>You can see an agent using a large hammer to

0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:27.040
<v Speaker 6>break the back passenger window of their car. Mary Lou

0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:29.679
<v Speaker 6>said the agents were focused on her husband Wan, but

0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.720
<v Speaker 6>kept calling in Antonio. That's the name of another man

0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:35.240
<v Speaker 6>who lives in their building. Thinking this is a case

0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:38.120
<v Speaker 6>of mistaken identity, Wan called his attorney, who told them

0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:40.160
<v Speaker 6>to stay in the car until she got there. But

0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:42.880
<v Speaker 6>instead of waiting for their lawyer, the agent smashed the

0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:45.680
<v Speaker 6>car window, broke into the vehicle, and dragged the couple out.

0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:47.600
<v Speaker 2>They had no reason to detain him.

0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:49.520
<v Speaker 5>We've been following the rules of this country.

0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:51.040
<v Speaker 4>We're doing things the right way.

0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:52.440
<v Speaker 2>That's why we have a lawyer.

0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:55.560
<v Speaker 3>Right, they're trying to do things the right way. We

0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:59.040
<v Speaker 3>have an assilent process in place. Well, it is not perfect.

0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.240
<v Speaker 3>I don't think a key step in it is dice

0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:04.200
<v Speaker 3>smashes your car with a hammer while screaming someone else's

0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:04.840
<v Speaker 3>name at you.

0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:10.720
<v Speaker 1>As an immigration lawyer, I'm assuming that you're very, very busy,

0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:14.640
<v Speaker 1>so thank you for your time, but also, can you

0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:18.000
<v Speaker 1>tell me about a case that sticks out to you,

0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:21.080
<v Speaker 1>perhaps of something like this happening to someone.

0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:26.120
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I stopped doing detained work around the pandemic

0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:29.720
<v Speaker 2>for the most part, just simply because I'm a single parent.

0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:31.960
<v Speaker 2>I just really didn't have the bandwidth for it anymore,

0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:35.400
<v Speaker 2>although I still do a lot of non deteen rule defense.

0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:41.440
<v Speaker 2>But you know, and the people that I was representing previously,

0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:44.880
<v Speaker 2>some of them did have some serious criminal issues, but

0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:47.560
<v Speaker 2>a lot of them also had just like mental health

0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:49.920
<v Speaker 2>issues or addiction issues that were kind of tangled up

0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:52.280
<v Speaker 2>in all of it. So it was a very complicated

0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:56.080
<v Speaker 2>area of immigration law. And I did represent somebody this

0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:58.400
<v Speaker 2>is not really a similar case, but you know, I

0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:01.120
<v Speaker 2>had somebody that I my very first rid of hebeas

0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:04.080
<v Speaker 2>corpus petition that I litergated. The person had been detained

0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:07.800
<v Speaker 2>for seven years and immigration attention and mostly because they

0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:11.840
<v Speaker 2>were mentally ill, they had some mental health issues, and

0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:15.000
<v Speaker 2>they were just found to be dangerous based on that,

0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:18.679
<v Speaker 2>even though it was you know, they weren't, and so

0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:22.360
<v Speaker 2>we ended up they're getting that and getting them released.

0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:25.959
<v Speaker 2>But I do see there is quite a bit of

0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:27.680
<v Speaker 2>unlawfuled attention that does happen.

0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:30.880
<v Speaker 1>Of course, because New Zealand is so far away, we

0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:34.080
<v Speaker 1>do see some real horror stories on the news about

0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:36.839
<v Speaker 1>what's happening there in America. But also I was thinking

0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:41.640
<v Speaker 1>about this this morning, about those stories of communities rallying

0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:44.880
<v Speaker 1>behind their neighbors, so to speak. So their neighbor might

0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:48.480
<v Speaker 1>be an immigrant, and you've got communities saying, well, you're

0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:50.760
<v Speaker 1>not taking them unless you take me. So there's some

0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:55.960
<v Speaker 1>real stories of community spirit and some really nice glimpses

0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:56.600
<v Speaker 1>of hope.

0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:01.880
<v Speaker 2>I suppose, I mean, I would venture that most of

0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:04.439
<v Speaker 2>the US. I mean, even the statistics show that most

0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:08.040
<v Speaker 2>of the US does not support Trump's immigration policies. We

0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:11.120
<v Speaker 2>do not want our neighbors to be scooped up and detained.

0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:14.280
<v Speaker 2>We don't want families ripped apart, we don't want kids

0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:16.480
<v Speaker 2>in cages. Like none of us actually want that. The

0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:21.080
<v Speaker 2>people that want that are a very small percentage of Americans.

0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:23.960
<v Speaker 2>And so it has been really heartening to see so

0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:28.120
<v Speaker 2>much resistance to these policies, to see these communities rallying

0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:30.640
<v Speaker 2>around their community members who are being targeted.

0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:35.920
<v Speaker 1>In your eyes, what needs to happen tomorrow, if you

0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:39.800
<v Speaker 1>had a magic wand to a leading in the situation.

0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:43.080
<v Speaker 2>So many things. But if we're talking about miss jall

0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:45.760
<v Speaker 2>I would just you know, want her release from detention

0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:48.680
<v Speaker 2>and her rule proceedings terminated and for her to continue

0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:51.960
<v Speaker 2>on the process that she was already you know, undertaking.

0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:55.600
<v Speaker 2>So that's that's what I would do if I had

0:14:55.640 --> 0:15:01.440
<v Speaker 2>a magic wand, And I would also just end the

0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:04.880
<v Speaker 2>enforcement policy of the Trump administration as well. Altogether.

0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:07.080
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for joining us, minda.

0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:08.520
<v Speaker 2>Welcome, thanks for having me.

0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:14.760
<v Speaker 1>That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You

0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:18.680
<v Speaker 1>can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage

0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:22.800
<v Speaker 1>at enzdherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is

0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:27.120
<v Speaker 1>produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who's also our editor.

0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:32.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio

0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:35.600
<v Speaker 1>or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow

0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:37.680
<v Speaker 1>for another look behind the headlines.