1
00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:09,120
Speaker 1: Kielder. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page,

2
00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:16,159
Speaker 1: a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. A

3
00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:20,200
Speaker 1: New Zealand citizen and her son have been detained by

4
00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,960
Speaker 1: Ice in the US. Sarah Show and her six year

5
00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,440
Speaker 1: old son were detained at the Canadian border after she

6
00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:31,400
Speaker 1: drove her two eldest children to a Vancouver airport for

7
00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:35,000
Speaker 1: a flight to New Zealand to visit their grandparents. The

8
00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:39,559
Speaker 1: pair are currently sitting in a detention facility in Texas.

9
00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:44,480
Speaker 1: They are two of tens of thousands of people who

10
00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:48,239
Speaker 1: are currently being detained by the agency. Most do not

11
00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,680
Speaker 1: have a criminal conviction and are classified as being no

12
00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:56,320
Speaker 1: threat to society. Today on the Front Page, American immigration

13
00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,960
Speaker 1: lawyer Minda Thorwood, who was representing the Kiwi being detec

14
00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,720
Speaker 1: is with us to discuss Sarah's case and the wider

15
00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:12,319
Speaker 1: issues around US immigration. Linda tell me about Sarah's case,

16
00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,560
Speaker 1: how did she and her young son end up in

17
00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:17,320
Speaker 1: a detention center in Texas?

18
00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,760
Speaker 2: So she made an error like it was kind of

19
00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:26,000
Speaker 2: an administrative error. She has a pending petition and also

20
00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,160
Speaker 2: along with the petition, an application to adjust her status

21
00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:33,360
Speaker 2: to permanent residency here, and along with that application, she

22
00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:37,040
Speaker 2: has the right to work and also travel and return.

23
00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:41,000
Speaker 2: And so in that situation, a combo card is issued

24
00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:43,480
Speaker 2: that is used both as a work permit and as

25
00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:48,680
Speaker 2: a travel document. And when she renewed her travel document

26
00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:51,560
Speaker 2: back in March, she didn't choose to renew her work

27
00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:53,720
Speaker 2: permit because she had no travel plans at that time.

28
00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:56,200
Speaker 2: But when she got her receipt three months later in

29
00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:02,000
Speaker 2: June extending the card, mistakenly believe that it also extended

30
00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:05,680
Speaker 2: her travel document, and so she took her child to

31
00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:08,799
Speaker 2: her children to Canada so that they could fly direct

32
00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,640
Speaker 2: to New Zealand to see their grandparents, and then on

33
00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:13,959
Speaker 2: her way back in you know, she was detained. She

34
00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,560
Speaker 2: was not permitted to enter because she didn't have a

35
00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:19,720
Speaker 2: valid travel document.

36
00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've read that some protocols weren't followed through, like

37
00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,960
Speaker 1: they weren't put into some kind of tracking system for

38
00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,600
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks. Can you explain what that is

39
00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:29,960
Speaker 1: to me?

40
00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:32,440
Speaker 2: I think probably what you're referring to is the ICE

41
00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:37,360
Speaker 2: detaining locator system, And what's supposed to happen is that

42
00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,359
Speaker 2: when a person is detained by ICE, their information is

43
00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:45,040
Speaker 2: immediately uploaded to a system based on their alien registration

44
00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:47,880
Speaker 2: number so that their lawyers and their family can find

45
00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:50,960
Speaker 2: where they're detained and also you know, contact the facility

46
00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,280
Speaker 2: arranged for local council if needed, that kind of thing,

47
00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,280
Speaker 2: and they were not put into that system. And we've

48
00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,400
Speaker 2: been seeing that more and more. Actually a lot of

49
00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,160
Speaker 2: folks who are being detained or not put in the

50
00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:07,440
Speaker 2: system because it is you know, a system of accountability,

51
00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:10,720
Speaker 2: and I think that's something the administration is not looking

52
00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:11,079
Speaker 2: to do.

53
00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:11,520
Speaker 3: Well.

54
00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:15,239
Speaker 1: That sounds terrifying that she hasn't spoken to her family

55
00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:19,080
Speaker 1: or her children and they have literally no idea where

56
00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:20,160
Speaker 1: she is.

57
00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,240
Speaker 2: I mean she called me right away, so you know,

58
00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,560
Speaker 2: I knew, you know, the day after she was detained

59
00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:28,000
Speaker 2: where she was. And she's also been in touch with

60
00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:31,640
Speaker 2: another friend so she can call out. But had she

61
00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:33,600
Speaker 2: not been able to do that, like, had she not

62
00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,480
Speaker 2: you know, money to put on a phone account, we

63
00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,400
Speaker 2: would not have been able to find her. So and yes,

64
00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:41,360
Speaker 2: it is very stressful and very terrifying.

65
00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:43,800
Speaker 1: So what are the next steps now?

66
00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:49,760
Speaker 2: So now we're we're waiting for USCIS to adjudicate her petition.

67
00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,080
Speaker 2: I've filed a Van Dama's complaint. There was an interview

68
00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,240
Speaker 2: today and we're just waiting to find out what happens,

69
00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,440
Speaker 2: and then from there it's kind of going to be

70
00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,839
Speaker 2: up to DHS in a lot of ways. So once

71
00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,920
Speaker 2: the petition is approved, she's eligible to adjust her status

72
00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,840
Speaker 2: to become a permanent resident. She's still eligible. That hasn't changed,

73
00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,320
Speaker 2: and so the question is whether she'd be doing that

74
00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,920
Speaker 2: before a judge an immigration court, or doing that affirmatively

75
00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,480
Speaker 2: before cis if her proceedings are terminated and her son,

76
00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:24,360
Speaker 2: you know, he has a travel document, so he's he can,

77
00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,680
Speaker 2: he's admissible. There's no reason that he should be in attention.

78
00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:31,120
Speaker 2: It's unlawful, and nor should he be in a rule

79
00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:33,920
Speaker 2: of proceedings because he was authorized to travel and come

80
00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:37,479
Speaker 2: back and has a valid pending adjustment application as well.

81
00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:38,920
Speaker 1: And how long could all those take.

82
00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,320
Speaker 2: It's I mean, I'm hoping the petition is adjudicated the

83
00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:46,400
Speaker 2: next couple of weeks. I really can't say. I really

84
00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:53,680
Speaker 2: don't know, and then beyond that, it's really uncertain she

85
00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:58,520
Speaker 2: could I mean hopefully. I mean, if all things go

86
00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:02,000
Speaker 2: exceptionally fast, i'd say it all taken care of within

87
00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,080
Speaker 2: a few months. But I mean people are in rural

88
00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,440
Speaker 2: proceedings for years and years. I don't think that's going

89
00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,159
Speaker 2: to happen here because of so much pressure from elected

90
00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,920
Speaker 2: representatives and so much media attention. But it is something

91
00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,480
Speaker 2: that does happen well.

92
00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,160
Speaker 1: And the fact of the matter is not everyone has

93
00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:20,440
Speaker 1: the luxury, like you said, even to have money to

94
00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:22,599
Speaker 1: put on a phone card, to be able to call

95
00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:26,919
Speaker 1: the lawyer or the media. Attention or of her place

96
00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:28,960
Speaker 1: of work. I think has been really vocal as well.

97
00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:31,960
Speaker 2: She's got a groundswell of support here for sure.

98
00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:36,280
Speaker 1: And too here in New Zealand, we often hear about

99
00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,880
Speaker 1: these things. We hear about stories of tourists getting detained.

100
00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,600
Speaker 1: For example, we see videos of people being plucked off

101
00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:49,360
Speaker 1: of the street. Is there a real threat of this

102
00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,640
Speaker 1: happening to Kiwis who may be traveling in the US?

103
00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:57,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think there's a real threat to anyone, unfortunately, anyone.

104
00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:03,240
Speaker 2: I think the threat is much greater for people who

105
00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:07,000
Speaker 2: are not white, unfortunately. I think that's a very sad

106
00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,599
Speaker 2: thing to say in twenty twenty five in the United States,

107
00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:13,000
Speaker 2: but that is that is a true statement. But I mean,

108
00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:14,880
Speaker 2: I think there's going to be a lot more draconian

109
00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:18,160
Speaker 2: enforcement of just people who are overseeing their be visas,

110
00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:23,280
Speaker 2: even innocently, you know, just I'm you know, somebody's here

111
00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,080
Speaker 2: on vacation and having a good time, and maybe they're

112
00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,560
Speaker 2: young and they're not paying attention. Like there's just going

113
00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,640
Speaker 2: to be some really you know, just like I said,

114
00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:32,120
Speaker 2: d'arconian enforcement happening.

115
00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,479
Speaker 4: Your Secretary of State says everyone who's here, citizens and

116
00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,640
Speaker 4: non citizens, deserve to process. Do you agree, mister, I

117
00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:41,040
Speaker 4: don't know.

118
00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:42,680
Speaker 5: I'm not a lawyer.

119
00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:43,800
Speaker 1: I don't know.

120
00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:45,719
Speaker 4: Well, the Fifth Amendment, I don't know.

121
00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:49,640
Speaker 5: It seems it might say that, But if you're talking

122
00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:51,760
Speaker 5: about that, then we'd have to have a million or

123
00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,880
Speaker 5: two million, or three million trials. We have thousands of

124
00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:57,800
Speaker 5: people that are some murderers and some drug dealers and

125
00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,080
Speaker 5: some of the worst people on earth, but some of

126
00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:03,080
Speaker 5: the worst, most dangerous people on earth. And I was

127
00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,640
Speaker 5: elected to get them the hell out of here, and

128
00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:07,640
Speaker 5: the courts are holding me from doing it.

129
00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:12,320
Speaker 4: But even given those numbers that you're talking about, don't

130
00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,480
Speaker 4: you need to uphold the Constitution of the United States

131
00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:14,920
Speaker 4: as present?

132
00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:15,880
Speaker 5: I don't know.

133
00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,760
Speaker 1: What advice do you have for people who may get

134
00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,840
Speaker 1: picked up by an ICE officer, for example, what are

135
00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:26,000
Speaker 1: your rights?

136
00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:32,720
Speaker 2: So you do have a right to contact a lawyer.

137
00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:34,880
Speaker 2: You do have a right to be represented by a

138
00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,120
Speaker 2: lawyer at your own expense. So it's not like a

139
00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:43,200
Speaker 2: criminal case where you would be provided representation by the government.

140
00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,320
Speaker 2: You have to pay for it yourself. But you do

141
00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:49,640
Speaker 2: have those rights, and I mean there are other rights

142
00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:55,080
Speaker 2: as well. You know, I would say if it's possible

143
00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:59,840
Speaker 2: to remain silent. People are really bullied into admitting things

144
00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,640
Speaker 2: to law enforcement when they actually should should say, like,

145
00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:08,000
Speaker 2: you know, I unless there are US citizen and they're

146
00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:09,640
Speaker 2: just trying to assert that right. You know, I have

147
00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,560
Speaker 2: a US citizen, don't attain me. Everyone else if there

148
00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:16,400
Speaker 2: are immigration status is uncertain or they don't they're afraid,

149
00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:18,440
Speaker 2: then just say I want to speak to earlier and

150
00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:18,880
Speaker 2: that's it.

151
00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,360
Speaker 1: Do you think ICE has gone too far in its

152
00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,120
Speaker 1: enforcement of immigration laws in the US?

153
00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:25,920
Speaker 5: Oh?

154
00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:30,800
Speaker 2: Absolutely, it has absolutely gone too far. I mean, nobody

155
00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:32,439
Speaker 2: wants to live in a police state.

156
00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:32,560
Speaker 1: You know.

157
00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:36,480
Speaker 2: I mean that is what has been so wonderful about

158
00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:38,920
Speaker 2: the US. You know, we've been a beacon of democracy

159
00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:42,920
Speaker 2: for a long time, and that is unfortunately not in danger.

160
00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,559
Speaker 2: We are seeing an assault on democracy and solid the

161
00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:51,240
Speaker 2: rule of law, on ice officers detaining US citizens and

162
00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,520
Speaker 2: just you know, anyone who has brown skin or an accent.

163
00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,200
Speaker 2: I mean, they really are going too far.

164
00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,240
Speaker 1: Correct me if I'm wrong. But Trump said that he

165
00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:10,280
Speaker 1: wanted to deport the worst of the worst, and presumably

166
00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,640
Speaker 1: that meant people with serious criminal convictions. But I read

167
00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,920
Speaker 1: a statistic just from last month showing that seventy two

168
00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:22,760
Speaker 1: percent of people detained have in fact no criminal convictions.

169
00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:25,640
Speaker 2: I mean, I can't verify that statistic, but that sounds

170
00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:30,560
Speaker 2: right to me. I mean, Trump has been Trump has

171
00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,120
Speaker 2: said a lot of things, and much of it has

172
00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:39,080
Speaker 2: not been true. And you know, he's not just going

173
00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:42,360
Speaker 2: after criminals. He's going after everyday people who are just

174
00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:46,040
Speaker 2: hard working people who just don't happen to not have

175
00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:48,400
Speaker 2: the right documents. And that's it. That's the only thing

176
00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,640
Speaker 2: they've done is exist in the US without the right papers.

177
00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,080
Speaker 2: And it's really unfortunate and just really, I just I

178
00:09:56,120 --> 00:10:00,480
Speaker 2: find I'm horrified by it. Helt to be honest. I mean,

179
00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,200
Speaker 2: I practice immigration law for the first ROMP administration, and

180
00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,199
Speaker 2: this is just ten times worse, or maybe even a

181
00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:07,320
Speaker 2: thousand times worse.

182
00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw that the White House gave the agency

183
00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:14,800
Speaker 1: a quota of three thousand arrests a day, and that's

184
00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,600
Speaker 1: up from six hundred and fifty in the first five

185
00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:23,000
Speaker 1: months of Trump's second term. Arrests obviously have shot up,

186
00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:25,920
Speaker 1: But is there a fear that with a quota, I

187
00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:31,520
Speaker 1: guess comes that added pressure on agents therefore problematic enforcement.

188
00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,760
Speaker 2: I mean, and that's exactly what's happening. People are trying

189
00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,559
Speaker 2: to meet their quotas, and so they're not just attaining

190
00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,000
Speaker 2: criminals like there the worst of the worst. They're detaining

191
00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:42,800
Speaker 2: anybody just so they can meet their quota. And I

192
00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:44,920
Speaker 2: think what ends up happening is that when you have

193
00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,160
Speaker 2: a quota based system that's focused on numbers instead of

194
00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,360
Speaker 2: on people, is that you end up dehumanizing the people

195
00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,959
Speaker 2: that are being detained. You don't see that person as

196
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,520
Speaker 2: a person with a family and a job and a

197
00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:59,480
Speaker 2: community here. You see them as just, oh, the thirty

198
00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,280
Speaker 2: seventh percent that I rounded up today, we're a thirty

199
00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,040
Speaker 2: seventh alien, you know, like we don't even don't use

200
00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,959
Speaker 2: the term person. They don't see them as people. They

201
00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:13,200
Speaker 2: just see them as you know, interlopers. And that's just

202
00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,280
Speaker 2: not true. These people are all part of our communities

203
00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,559
Speaker 2: and they have rights that we should honor.

204
00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,080
Speaker 6: You can see an agent using a large hammer to

205
00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,040
Speaker 6: break the back passenger window of their car. Mary Lou

206
00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,679
Speaker 6: said the agents were focused on her husband Wan, but

207
00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,720
Speaker 6: kept calling in Antonio. That's the name of another man

208
00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,240
Speaker 6: who lives in their building. Thinking this is a case

209
00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,120
Speaker 6: of mistaken identity, Wan called his attorney, who told them

210
00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,160
Speaker 6: to stay in the car until she got there. But

211
00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,880
Speaker 6: instead of waiting for their lawyer, the agent smashed the

212
00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,680
Speaker 6: car window, broke into the vehicle, and dragged the couple out.

213
00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:47,600
Speaker 2: They had no reason to detain him.

214
00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:49,520
Speaker 5: We've been following the rules of this country.

215
00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,040
Speaker 4: We're doing things the right way.

216
00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:52,440
Speaker 2: That's why we have a lawyer.

217
00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,560
Speaker 3: Right, they're trying to do things the right way. We

218
00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,040
Speaker 3: have an assilent process in place. Well, it is not perfect.

219
00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,240
Speaker 3: I don't think a key step in it is dice

220
00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,200
Speaker 3: smashes your car with a hammer while screaming someone else's

221
00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:04,840
Speaker 3: name at you.

222
00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,720
Speaker 1: As an immigration lawyer, I'm assuming that you're very, very busy,

223
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,640
Speaker 1: so thank you for your time, but also, can you

224
00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:18,000
Speaker 1: tell me about a case that sticks out to you,

225
00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,080
Speaker 1: perhaps of something like this happening to someone.

226
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:26,120
Speaker 2: I mean, I stopped doing detained work around the pandemic

227
00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:29,720
Speaker 2: for the most part, just simply because I'm a single parent.

228
00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:31,960
Speaker 2: I just really didn't have the bandwidth for it anymore,

229
00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,400
Speaker 2: although I still do a lot of non deteen rule defense.

230
00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:41,440
Speaker 2: But you know, and the people that I was representing previously,

231
00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:44,880
Speaker 2: some of them did have some serious criminal issues, but

232
00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,560
Speaker 2: a lot of them also had just like mental health

233
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:49,920
Speaker 2: issues or addiction issues that were kind of tangled up

234
00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,280
Speaker 2: in all of it. So it was a very complicated

235
00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:56,080
Speaker 2: area of immigration law. And I did represent somebody this

236
00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,400
Speaker 2: is not really a similar case, but you know, I

237
00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,120
Speaker 2: had somebody that I my very first rid of hebeas

238
00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:04,080
Speaker 2: corpus petition that I litergated. The person had been detained

239
00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,800
Speaker 2: for seven years and immigration attention and mostly because they

240
00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,840
Speaker 2: were mentally ill, they had some mental health issues, and

241
00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:15,000
Speaker 2: they were just found to be dangerous based on that,

242
00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:18,679
Speaker 2: even though it was you know, they weren't, and so

243
00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:22,360
Speaker 2: we ended up they're getting that and getting them released.

244
00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,959
Speaker 2: But I do see there is quite a bit of

245
00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:27,680
Speaker 2: unlawfuled attention that does happen.

246
00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:30,880
Speaker 1: Of course, because New Zealand is so far away, we

247
00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,080
Speaker 1: do see some real horror stories on the news about

248
00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,839
Speaker 1: what's happening there in America. But also I was thinking

249
00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:41,640
Speaker 1: about this this morning, about those stories of communities rallying

250
00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,880
Speaker 1: behind their neighbors, so to speak. So their neighbor might

251
00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,480
Speaker 1: be an immigrant, and you've got communities saying, well, you're

252
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,760
Speaker 1: not taking them unless you take me. So there's some

253
00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:55,960
Speaker 1: real stories of community spirit and some really nice glimpses

254
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:56,600
Speaker 1: of hope.

255
00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:01,880
Speaker 2: I suppose, I mean, I would venture that most of

256
00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,439
Speaker 2: the US. I mean, even the statistics show that most

257
00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:08,040
Speaker 2: of the US does not support Trump's immigration policies. We

258
00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:11,120
Speaker 2: do not want our neighbors to be scooped up and detained.

259
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,280
Speaker 2: We don't want families ripped apart, we don't want kids

260
00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:16,480
Speaker 2: in cages. Like none of us actually want that. The

261
00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:21,080
Speaker 2: people that want that are a very small percentage of Americans.

262
00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:23,960
Speaker 2: And so it has been really heartening to see so

263
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:28,120
Speaker 2: much resistance to these policies, to see these communities rallying

264
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,640
Speaker 2: around their community members who are being targeted.

265
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:35,920
Speaker 1: In your eyes, what needs to happen tomorrow, if you

266
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,800
Speaker 1: had a magic wand to a leading in the situation.

267
00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,080
Speaker 2: So many things. But if we're talking about miss jall

268
00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,760
Speaker 2: I would just you know, want her release from detention

269
00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,680
Speaker 2: and her rule proceedings terminated and for her to continue

270
00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,960
Speaker 2: on the process that she was already you know, undertaking.

271
00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:55,600
Speaker 2: So that's that's what I would do if I had

272
00:14:55,640 --> 00:15:01,440
Speaker 2: a magic wand, And I would also just end the

273
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,880
Speaker 2: enforcement policy of the Trump administration as well. Altogether.

274
00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:07,080
Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us, minda.

275
00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:08,520
Speaker 2: Welcome, thanks for having me.

276
00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,760
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You

277
00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:18,680
Speaker 1: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage

278
00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,800
Speaker 1: at enzdherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is

279
00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:27,120
Speaker 1: produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who's also our editor.

280
00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:32,000
Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio

281
00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,600
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow

282
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,680
Speaker 1: for another look behind the headlines.