1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,559 Speaker 1: To Health more insight into the troubles at Health New Zealand. 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: We've got a four hundred and fifty page dump yesterday 3 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: that gave insight into tentions about the place. And that's 4 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:08,799 Speaker 1: before we get to the red ink, which is into 5 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: the billions. Of course, the man who will fix it 6 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:13,239 Speaker 1: all is Commissioner Lester Levy, who is with us. Very 7 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: good morning to you. 8 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 2: Morning, Mike. 9 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 1: You're making headway. 10 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,639 Speaker 2: Yes, we're starting to make progress. I think that on 11 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,799 Speaker 2: the financial side, we've stabilized the situation and starting to 12 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 2: get relatively small but meaningful reductions. And what stands in 13 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 2: front of us is the cost out program, because first 14 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 2: of all, stabilize the finances and then reduce it. Just 15 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,199 Speaker 2: to remember that this is not a random cost reduction. 16 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 2: This is just bringing us back to budget because the 17 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 2: problem has really been a beyond budget expenditure. 18 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: Exactly have you been able to do that comparatively speaking, 19 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: given the size of what you're dealing with easily? In 20 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: other words, are the savings there to be had if 21 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: you look, Yes, I. 22 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 2: Think the savings are definitely here to be made. It's 23 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:07,119 Speaker 2: always challenging and difficult in a large organization and also 24 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:09,839 Speaker 2: there's a lot of process that we have to follow 25 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 2: because that's really important. So you know, timing is always 26 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 2: a challenge. Time is not my ally on this, but look, 27 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,839 Speaker 2: it's all possible. I think the underlying issue you, Mike, 28 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 2: is that I'm driving a process so that the public 29 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 2: can get the benefit of the constant increases in funding 30 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 2: into the health system. And so we have had increases 31 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:39,960 Speaker 2: in funding, increases in staffing, and the outputs have only 32 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 2: increased relatively relatively small increase in output and that's not 33 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 2: going to get the waiting times down, which is what 34 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 2: patients want and need. 35 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: So just reiterate what you just said, because aishaviral will 36 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: argue with you. There is an increase in funding. She says, 37 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: this is a manufactured crisis. The whole thing's underfunded and 38 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: you're not getting the money you used to get. She's wrong, 39 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: Is that correct? 40 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is not a manufactured crisis. Actually, the 41 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 2: health expenditure has been increasing year on you for many years. 42 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 2: We currently have a revenue into health New Zealand at 43 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 2: a higher level than any time previously in the health system, 44 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:22,679 Speaker 2: including through the height of COVID. And not only that, 45 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 2: we've got a one point four to three billion dollar 46 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 2: uplift this year on operating cost and a one point 47 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 2: one billion uplift on capital costs. That's a significant amount 48 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 2: of money that we need to get value for. So no, 49 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 2: there is an increase, So it'd be completely wrong to 50 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 2: say that anything is contrived. Look, there's a lot of 51 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 2: political issues, there's a lot of arguments, there's a lot 52 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 2: of different perspectives. I can only deal with the reality mark, 53 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 2: and there's an amazing ability in health to take the 54 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 2: anecdote and generalize it. I'm dealing with hard data, and 55 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 2: what that tells us is that difficult as it is, 56 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 2: there's an opportunity to get patients more out of the 57 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 2: resources we already have, and we need to do that 58 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 2: because those patients, their families and communities need that, deserve 59 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 2: that and should get that, and we want. 60 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: To do exactly right. And that's good to hear. How 61 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 1: much of this and what you're facing is politics and 62 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: is blown out of proportion, whether it be the Ashavial line, 63 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:25,239 Speaker 1: whether it's the union line about the four hundred million 64 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 1: dollars for the pay equity coming from some other pot 65 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: and they're confused, or whether it's the recruitment on the 66 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: front line that is or isn't being adhered to. How 67 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: much of its people pushing back for political. 68 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 2: Reasons, Well, I think a lot of it is people 69 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 2: pushing back for vested interests or their own beliefs or 70 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 2: whatever however you'd like to define it. But for example, 71 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 2: the pay equity, that's a timing issue, so that's not 72 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 2: relevant to us. So it could have come earlier, it's 73 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 2: come now. That doesn't make a big difference to what 74 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 2: really worries me, which is a recurrent cost structure. That's 75 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 2: our problem that we have a run rate deficit of 76 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 2: around about one hundred and forty tw one hundred and 77 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 2: fifty million a month that we're losing and we have 78 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 2: to stop that. The other things I think our side shows. 79 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 2: I think that what is really quite important is how 80 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 2: did this actually unfold? Because somebody like myself aren't dealing 81 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 2: with an inherited problem. We did not create this problem ourself, 82 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,479 Speaker 2: and that's always quite difficult. But if I could maybe 83 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 2: just address the staffing, because that comes up a lot. 84 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:32,919 Speaker 2: You know, it doesn't matter where you are in healthcare, 85 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 2: wherever you are in the world, people are as you know, 86 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 2: there's always impetus to get more staff, and we want 87 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 2: to have a good amount of staff. But in the 88 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 2: year just finished twenty three twenty four finished in June, 89 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 2: we added to Health New Zealand more staff of all 90 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 2: professional groups than any time in the last eight years. 91 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 2: It's only as far back as we went. We could 92 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 2: go back further. But the number in this last year 93 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,679 Speaker 2: is equivalent to the number in the prior to years 94 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 2: added together. And the number of nurses were added in 95 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 2: this last year is more than the total amount of 96 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 2: all professional types in any of the two prior years. 97 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 2: There has never been an uplift in FT full time 98 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 2: equivalence as there has been in this last year. So 99 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 2: that doesn't meet with the prevailing narrative. 100 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: No it doesn't. And you don't hear what you've just 101 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 1: heard widely enough you hear from the unions. Now, do 102 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 1: you feel your winning slowly? 103 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 2: Well, I think I wouldn't use the word winning at 104 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 2: all in this concept. I feel that we are making progress. 105 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 2: We need to mobilize before we can get as much 106 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 2: momentum as we would like. But my motivation, my mission, Mike, 107 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 2: is to get patients, families and communities what they need 108 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 2: and deserve. There's been a huge amount of money that 109 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 2: has gone into the health system in recent years, hugely significant, 110 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 2: and I don't see the public benefit. I think that 111 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 2: is the number one question. Where is the public benefit 112 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 2: for all of that money. We shouldn't have patients waiting 113 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 2: as long as they are for all sorts of important services. 114 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:13,600 Speaker 2: The shortest wait is the safest wait, and that's my objective. 115 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:15,720 Speaker 1: Good stuff, good to catch up, Appreciate it very much 116 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: and good luck. Le'ster le be the Health Commissioner. 117 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to 118 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 2: news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow 119 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.