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Speaker 1: This morning to go bolder and bigger on our cybersecurity

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Speaker 1: crime issues. We had a number of syndicates apparently out

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Speaker 1: of Southeast Asia targeting us. The bill is one point

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Speaker 1: six billion dollars a year. We need. They claim to

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Speaker 1: follow Australia in the UK with laws that force banks,

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Speaker 1: telcos and social media companies to block fraud. Gabby Lewis's

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Speaker 1: criminologist and head of fraud and financial crime at swift

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Speaker 1: Ex and as whether it's Gabby morning.

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Speaker 2: Good morning mate.

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Speaker 1: Are things worse or not?

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Speaker 2: Yes, more needs to be done to protect New Zealander

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Speaker 2: is from these organized crime syndicates that are operating out

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Speaker 2: of Southeast Asia. They're generating millions in illicit profits each week.

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Speaker 1: When you say crime, what do you mean crime or

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Speaker 1: is it just scams?

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Speaker 2: Cybercrime? So essentially what these organized criminal syndicates are doing

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Speaker 2: is they're actually trafficking humans in these big kind of

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Speaker 2: compounds within Southeast Asia, So they're victims themselves, and they're

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Speaker 2: targeting not one country but all countries. And that's for

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Speaker 2: different sorts of scams that are going around each and

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Speaker 2: every day.

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Speaker 1: So just explain that to me. I mean when you

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Speaker 1: say they're humans in what way.

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Speaker 2: So essentially they offer for these victims to come and

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Speaker 2: work out of their compounds and it's kind of like

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Speaker 2: it or tech jobs. And essentially once they enter those compounds,

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Speaker 2: they can't leave. They're trapped. You know, they've been giving

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Speaker 2: KPIs to scam people out of millions of dollars each week,

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Speaker 2: and if they don't get those targets, then they actually

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Speaker 2: do get punished themselves.

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Speaker 1: And whose jurisdiction does that particular activity fall.

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Speaker 2: It's so the activity is operating out of Southeast Asia,

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Speaker 2: however it's targeting every single jurisdiction.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but what I'm saying is so, I mean in

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Speaker 1: New Zealand you could be blunt and go, well, I

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Speaker 1: don't care what they're doing. And you know Vietnam or Cambodia.

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Speaker 1: Is it Cambodia's problem to sort that side of the

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Speaker 1: equation out before it becomes our problem when we get scammed.

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Speaker 2: No, absolutely not. You know, we need to tighten things

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Speaker 2: on our side before we become a large target. As

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Speaker 2: I mentioned, no jurisdiction is safe. We need the government

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Speaker 2: essentially to start to work together, you know, Australia and

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Speaker 2: New Zealand for example, they can join alliance. We need

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Speaker 2: to run nationwide anti scan campaigns with you know, things

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Speaker 2: like a simple message something like slow down, look around,

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Speaker 2: shut it down. It needs to be everywhere, from banks

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Speaker 2: to telcos to social media, similar to the old slop

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Speaker 2: slap sun safety campaigns.

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Speaker 1: Do you think we care or not? I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: one of those things that until it hits you, you

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Speaker 1: don't really mind.

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Speaker 2: You I yes, there is a level of care. We

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Speaker 2: are cautious, but we're too slow at this stage. The

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Speaker 2: scammers don't wait. We need to act now before we

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Speaker 2: become the next hot spot.

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Speaker 1: Is this a phishing type exercise where they just machine

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Speaker 1: gun you with you know, they just try ten thousand people.

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Speaker 1: Do they find one?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely? You know, even if they can get one out

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Speaker 2: of ten thousand, they're profitable.

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Speaker 1: And the laws that have been passed in places like

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Speaker 1: Australia in the UK, what do they do and do

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Speaker 1: they work?

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Speaker 2: So the laws of that are in the UK and

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Speaker 2: one that's coming into Australia is essentially it's going to

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Speaker 2: have that more shared responsibility and it's going to start

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Speaker 2: holding organizations accountable, which will start to make companies do

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Speaker 2: a bit more and essentially what it's doing is it's

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Speaker 2: setting the minimum standard. So you know it won't completely

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Speaker 2: mitigate scam losses. However, it will start to set those

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Speaker 2: minimum standards. So for example, with social media, you know

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Speaker 2: there will need to be a vetting process to get

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Speaker 2: your ad up on Facebook.

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Speaker 1: Interesting. Well, we'll see whatere it goes. Gabby appreciate it

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Speaker 1: very much. Gebby Lewis, who's criminologist hit a fraud and

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Speaker 1: finance crimeate to swiftix. We had one yesterday. Funnily enough,

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Speaker 1: Katie's got on who find there's a new app with

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Speaker 1: the bank, and we had been dealing with yin. Someone

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Speaker 1: was trying to make a payment of thousands and thousands

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Speaker 1: of yin Japanese yin, but we stepped it out until

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Speaker 1: I transferred that. I said, I wonder how much yin

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Speaker 1: that is? Turned out be one hundred and eighty seven dollars.

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Speaker 1: So with so that point you slowed down. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what was going on. I said, how did you

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Speaker 1: get that app thing on your phone? And anyway, so

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Speaker 1: I'm just completely oblivious to it all. For more from

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