1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: Kyoda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, 2 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. NZ 3 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: Post is removing services from one hundred and forty two 4 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 1: partner stores this year. It follows a long line of 5 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: postal groups around the world scaling back as we enter 6 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: a new era dominated by tech. The Czech Post closed 7 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 1: three hundred post office branches, the Greek Postal service shut 8 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: more than two hundred last year. UK networks have gone 9 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: through rolling waves of reductions, and Denmark has ended traditional 10 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 1: letter delivery entirely, an end to a four hundred year 11 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: old service. But how will the switch impact small town 12 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: communities and the elderly? Today on the front page age 13 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: Concern News Zealand Chief Executive Karen Billings Jensen is with 14 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: us to take us through what this could mean for 15 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: those who need these services the most. So, Karen, how 16 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: significant is this change for older New Zealanders? 17 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 2: I think it is significant for those that have relied 18 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 2: on being able to access postal services and other services 19 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 2: like bill paying, and that in a more local community. 20 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 2: So I guess we think of those for whom transport 21 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 2: and travel distance is both difficult because of maybe a 22 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 2: disability or the cost. So that's kind of one half, 23 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 2: and then the other half is those who may not 24 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 2: be digitally literate. And we just see this, we know 25 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 2: that the figures of those over sixty five, I think 26 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 2: there's twenty five percent who are not digitally literate or 27 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 2: on line, and then for seventy five plus it increases 28 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 2: for about thirty seven percent, and eighty five plus will 29 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 2: be even higher in terms of not being online. And yeah, 30 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 2: so it just could create some real challenges with the 31 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 2: kind of move to make more and more business done online. 32 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: That's what I was going to say as well, it 33 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: seems like you have to do everything online these days, 34 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: and when you do go online, you're talking to a 35 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 1: chat bot. I mean, it must be incredibly, incredibly difficult 36 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: for those who are not digitally literate. 37 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 2: Well, yes, there's a couple of things. So one of 38 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 2: those who are not comfortable, I mean, they might know 39 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,959 Speaker 2: how to use technology to do some quite straightforward things 40 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 2: that enhance their life, like facetiming grandchildren or talking to that. 41 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 2: But there's a bit of a difference between using some 42 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 2: complicated forms or needing to move through processes that might 43 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 2: just take a bit longer of your digital awareness. The 44 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 2: other thing is connectivity. Not everyone is able to afford 45 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 2: to be digital online, particularly on a very fixed budget, 46 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 2: and then the cost of a smart device. We know 47 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 2: that the three G network is closing, which was you know, 48 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 2: had some people on very basic phones. We know not 49 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 2: everyone can afford a smart phone, So I guess it's 50 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 2: the affordability issue of needing to be online, plus then 51 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 2: those who are more confident, and we know there are 52 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 2: plenty of older people who are really confident. We just 53 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 2: know that there's some who struggle, particularly if you're not 54 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 2: using it on a daily basis. 55 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know whether you've ever tried to teach 56 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: a grandparent how to use FaceTime or Zoom, But I mean, 57 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: even though they were really enthusiastic about it, it is 58 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: still just that generational divide. You're just going to remember, Hey, 59 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: I grew up with this technology or I grew up 60 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: knowing how to use the Internet. And it's all about 61 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: are there enough services out there who teach older people 62 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: how to use this kind of technology? Do you think? 63 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 2: Again? I want to be really clear that you know 64 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:13,119 Speaker 2: a vast majority of older people have adapted to technology. 65 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 2: They've adapted right through their whole life, so adapting to 66 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 2: new things isn't a problem, and they do do it. 67 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 2: But some people don't have younger people that might be 68 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 2: able to support them within the family. There are groups 69 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 2: that and we run a lot of digital literacy programs 70 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 2: ourselves across the Age Concerned Network and other groups in 71 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 2: the community. Libraries are a fantastic resource. But again, I 72 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 2: think when we see local community options closing and some 73 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 2: of the places that people might go to get support, so, 74 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 2: you know, and I guess that's looping back to the 75 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 2: closure of some of these community postal services, as those 76 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 2: people in a community that you might know because they're 77 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 2: also your local dairy owner or there are a small 78 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 2: shop and it's part of what they do. So I think, 79 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 2: really we always want there to be more investment and 80 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 2: ensuring that the digital move doesn't leave people behind. 81 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: New Zealand post reckons. Most people won't have to go 82 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: more than four kilometers to find a New Zealand post store. 83 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: What do you make of this statement. 84 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 2: I guess some of the ones that we looked at 85 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 2: you could see that the four kilometers is you know, 86 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,359 Speaker 2: is fine. But some of the communities I think just 87 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 2: north of Wellington Pai Kokarik. You know it's it's quite 88 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 2: a you know, it's a fifteen minute drive to either 89 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 2: of the nearest post shops. That's more than four kilometers. 90 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 2: So yeah, I think some of the communities may not 91 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 2: be well served and it might be really difficult and 92 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 2: for us in Wellington and other parts of the country 93 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 2: where we know up the kapit the coast, there is 94 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 2: a greater number of older people who choose to retire 95 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 2: slightly out of the city, closer to the beach or 96 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 2: a more relaxed lifestyle. So I think, yeah, some of 97 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 2: the decisions about places where services are being yeah, disestablished 98 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 2: was a bit of a surprise. So I think their 99 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 2: comment was on average for kilometers. So I guess the 100 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 2: challenge with on average is that we knowed some that 101 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 2: are more. 102 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 3: East coast, Town of Wayperio Bay Fields that they've been 103 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 3: betrayed and are confused by the post office closures, especially 104 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 3: after years of loyalty. In Neally Harrison's case, over half 105 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 3: a century. It'll be about that, yes, yes, will you 106 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 3: close that account now that the post office has closed 107 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:44,160 Speaker 3: here and go to another bank? 108 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 1: Ohll like it? 109 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 2: There? I got managed at my age and hardly walk. Yeah, 110 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:54,479 Speaker 2: I do know what I'll do. 111 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: Were you or any other organizations consulted in any meaningful 112 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 1: way before this was all finalized. 113 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 2: I'm not aware. I would have thought that there would 114 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 2: have been, you know, the opportunity to seek feedback. We 115 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 2: know that there was feedback sort regarding changes to mail 116 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 2: delivery and mail services last year, and we recognize, you know, 117 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 2: as a business they do need to look at their 118 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 2: operating models. But I guess it is for us that's 119 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 2: thinking around these communities and places that are hubs of communities. 120 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 2: And we know that banks are also moving more online. 121 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 2: There's closure of branches or has been over a number 122 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 2: of years, all reduced ours and so again, you know, 123 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 2: for many of us, online banking, online mail is what 124 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 2: we do, and online use of forms, but for those 125 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 2: who risk being left behind. We also know our population 126 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 2: is aging quite rapidly, and so we're going to see 127 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 2: and amongst over sixty five, one of the fastest going 128 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 2: groups is the over eighty fives. And we know that 129 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 2: we want people to live at home and live in 130 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 2: their community and age in place where they feel connected 131 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 2: as long as possible. So yeah, it's how then do 132 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 2: we ensure communities are set up to support people to 133 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 2: do that. 134 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: And it's not only the physical act of going in 135 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: and doing your bills and not being able to do 136 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: them online, but it's that social interaction and that feeling 137 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 1: of community, Hay, which is really important because I know 138 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: that loneliness is a real issue among our older older citizens. 139 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 2: Yeah definitely, and so ye a reduced opportunity to leave 140 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,959 Speaker 2: your house and to go out and connect with someone 141 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 2: and just even have that interaction. And I know that's 142 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 2: not would not be a driver for a business, But 143 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 2: it's when I think that we think about our communities, 144 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 2: how they structured. What's our urban design, Like if it 145 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 2: is part transport that someone needs to get to services 146 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 2: and it's public transport, isn't there or it's you know, 147 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:09,839 Speaker 2: we know there's amazing things like gold card that can 148 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 2: reduce the cost of public transport during certain hours, but 149 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 2: where there's not public transport options and where then you 150 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 2: might need to rely on someone else to do things 151 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 2: on your behalf. We know that that can also increase 152 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:28,839 Speaker 2: risk of elder abuse or you know, and loss of independence, 153 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 2: like all of us want to be independent, So it 154 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 2: is around all those things that I guess make up 155 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,439 Speaker 2: a community, how it's structured, what kind of public transport 156 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 2: there is, you know, even if you are walking to 157 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 2: slightly further to services, are there seats that you can 158 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 2: sit down on and have a rest. It's really all 159 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 2: those things that are part of what makes our communities 160 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:55,959 Speaker 2: livable as we age. And yeah, I was just really 161 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 2: surprised that there wasn't greater consultation around the impact on 162 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,439 Speaker 2: some of these communities and in some cases, as we've 163 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 2: seen the stories some of these really small businesses that 164 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 2: this was a key piece of their operations and doing 165 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 2: the risk that we might see closures of other services 166 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 2: because it's a bit of everyone was kind of working 167 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 2: a mixture of activities for a small business, was keeping 168 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 2: it viable in the community. 169 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, and definitely living independently and having those relationships are 170 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: super important. I only thought of it actually in relation 171 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 1: to my own popper. He goes and gets his haircut 172 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,839 Speaker 1: every two weeks. He's got maybe you could count them 173 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: on two hands, the hairs on his head. But my 174 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,559 Speaker 1: mum explained it to me and she said, no, he 175 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: when he goes into the hair salon, everyone says hello 176 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 1: to him. He asks everyone how they are, and it 177 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: is that whole community and that doing something and feeling 178 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: connected to people. And she said, you know, you have 179 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: to go and and see how they treat him. It's 180 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's so beautiful and there's those little interactions. 181 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: You know, the people in those towns will know the 182 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: names of whoever takes their bills for them, whoever takes 183 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: their letters, and that's what's important. Do you think that 184 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: maybe these kind of networks should be treated as a 185 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,599 Speaker 1: public infrastructure like your health, like your transport, instead of 186 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: running purely on commercial viability. 187 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 2: I guess that's where we see the interaction of you know, 188 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 2: big government, local government, you know, where where do things 189 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 2: meet to you know, and we know with challenges for 190 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 2: the local councils, regional councils around services, things like libraries, 191 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 2: community centers, the places whereas you talked about your pop 192 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 2: up people go and actually he'd be missed. So if 193 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 2: he didn't turn up into every fortnight, someone might reach 194 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 2: out and say is he okay? So it is those connections. 195 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 2: I guess it's hard to say. For a business, you 196 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 2: know that you have a corporate responsibility to community, but 197 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 2: we know actually our communities thrive when business and we 198 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 2: see plenty of examples around the country where business works 199 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 2: well with council, works well with government and it's a 200 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 2: coherent community that comes together. And I think we see, 201 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:24,439 Speaker 2: you know, through the sheer number of volunteers in our communities, 202 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 2: which often are also larger older largely older people who 203 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 2: are keeping some of the things running, like the toy library, 204 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 2: like the meals on wheels if there's those available in 205 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 2: your community, the volunteer drivers for you know, cancer society 206 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 2: or you know, supporting people to connect and to get places. 207 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 2: So we just know that all those things, everybody working 208 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 2: together supports a whole community. 209 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 4: So the dairy or the shoplane clip, of course that's 210 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 4: absolutely correct, but your services taken out of them cuts 211 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 4: a lot of their revenue out because they get customers 212 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:08,199 Speaker 4: coming who should buy other things. 213 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 5: We do acknowledge that this is a change for some 214 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 5: of our partners, and look where we're no stranger to change. 215 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 5: But when you see on the post, we've been going 216 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:20,199 Speaker 5: through a massive change with the significant declines and mail 217 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 5: and huge growth and e commerce and parcels, so our 218 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 5: business is really shifting towards parcel sending. 219 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: Wouldn't it be lovely though? If the corporate world did 220 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 1: care about those those at the bottom. 221 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 2: They do, I mean, I don't want I'm not about 222 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 2: begging the community because they do so much, and they 223 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 2: do things through sponsorships, through their staff giving and the 224 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 2: through people that are behind a counter when you do 225 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 2: go there day care and they on that personal level. 226 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 2: So it's really just saying, how does it all fit together, 227 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 2: and how particularly when there are challenges around you know, 228 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 2: some of the impacts on our communities, around businesses, you know, 229 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 2: struggling with the cost of living, their viability, you know, 230 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 2: the social fabric, you know, and how people have responded 231 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 2: and how people have responded in crisis. You know what 232 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 2: we've seen on the East Coast, what we've seen at 233 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 2: the mount and the volunteers that have come to care 234 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 2: and the way community have provided food. And that's that's 235 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 2: us and that's what our communities are like. It's I 236 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 2: always think, you know, where do we build the strength 237 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 2: and peacetime, where do we build the strength when it's 238 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 2: not a crisis that means our neighborhoods hang together, and 239 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 2: where do businesses continue to be supported to take to 240 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 2: be part of it. So yeah, I think there is 241 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 2: so much good, but this was just makes us think 242 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 2: about what our communities look like and what are the 243 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 2: what are the things that we want to see in 244 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 2: that and how can everybody be brought along and not 245 00:14:55,480 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 2: excluded and the risks of some of these changes around 246 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 2: reducing opportunities for older people who aren't online, who struggle 247 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 2: to get four kilometers away from where they live but 248 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 2: could manage, you know, one kilometer. 249 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: Are there any other services that you think are in 250 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: the cross hairs at the moment? 251 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 2: I guess we know that there's just a lot of 252 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 2: thinking around house services that delivered. We have seen a 253 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 2: number of government departments really push that shift online. I mean, 254 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 2: one of the key things that we know post shops 255 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 2: do is provide I think it's called Kiwi access the card, 256 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 2: the ID card. So if you have aged out of 257 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 2: not having a passport anymore because you're not going to 258 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 2: travel overseas, and if you no longer have a driver's 259 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 2: license and you still need a form of identification, that 260 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 2: was one of the key things that people were also using. 261 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 2: So I guess it's like the old eighteen plus cards. 262 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 2: So anyone over eighteen, it can provide that ID until 263 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 2: you've got some other forms of ID. So we've got 264 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 2: people growing into getting a driver's license. We've also got 265 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 2: people exiting out of having a driver's license and having 266 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 2: that photo ID. So I think it's all those things 267 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 2: and some of the services that you know you can 268 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 2: only apply online for certain things. I think it all 269 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 2: just creates some barriers and really we want to so 270 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 2: I guess our plea to government departments, to those who 271 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 2: have a public service, be it councils or what is 272 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 2: think about those who not being online is a barrier. 273 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: I saw in Denmark they have ended their traditional letter 274 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: delivery entirely as of actually December thirty. That's the end 275 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: of a four hundred year old service. So what I'm 276 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: suggesting is that why don't we all band together and 277 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: send Christmas cards through the mail this year? 278 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, I guess the what we hear from 279 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 2: New Zealand posters as a business, and we know that 280 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 2: there's a reduction of letters. I mean, I think we 281 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 2: got three Christmas cards at home this year when we 282 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 2: used to get you know many, I remember my parents 283 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 2: probably having hundreds. 284 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: Oh and stringing them up over the fireplace, all of them. 285 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 2: And I think the time times have changed, like many 286 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 2: of us can you know and do of all ages 287 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 2: use our smartphones and email and other forms. So I 288 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 2: think we need to recognize that the times are a 289 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 2: changing in terms of mail delivery, and we can't go back. 290 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 2: But it's just ensuring that whatever is put in place. 291 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 2: And I think New Zealand posts, you know, their parcel 292 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 2: service is way more you know, through trade me, and 293 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 2: you know, buying things online, you know those midnight purchases 294 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 2: where you should really think about it before you fine 295 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 2: that arrived. But we know that that has become an 296 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 2: increased part rather than I mean, we do know again 297 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 2: that some companies are saying we'll only give you a 298 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 2: online bill, and so again for those who are online 299 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 2: and can read it really important. But again it's thinking 300 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,880 Speaker 2: about where could there be still a service for those 301 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 2: who aren't online. Then it puts someone else getting their 302 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 2: bill and their personal information to help them. So I 303 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 2: think it's all that. Yeah, I'm not sure that saving 304 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 2: the postal service with the Christmas cards probably would work 305 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 2: in the long term. 306 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: I'll back down on that crusade man, Yeah. 307 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 2: But I guess it is just you know, the challenge 308 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 2: really is how do we make sure that we don't 309 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 2: leave people behind. And you know, we have amazing groups 310 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 2: that invest in supporting digital literacy, so you know, so 311 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 2: that's one step. Dealing with the cost is another, and 312 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 2: you know it should if we're saying everything is online, 313 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 2: should provision of internet be seen as an essential serus? 314 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:04,160 Speaker 2: And should then that be part of what's built into 315 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 2: those who are only reliant on either New Zealand super 316 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 2: or have worken income benefit. Should we say, actually, this 317 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:16,640 Speaker 2: is essential. If we're saying everyone's life is online, do 318 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 2: we then need to say so, actually, when we talk 319 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:24,399 Speaker 2: about key things that you need to pay rates electricity 320 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 2: and that is connectivity, does that then need to be 321 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 2: factored in as something that's essential if we're saying online 322 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 2: and then we've got all our rural communities that struggle 323 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 2: with connectivity anyway. So I mean, there's bigger questions, but 324 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 2: I think for me ensuring that cost of connection isn't 325 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,920 Speaker 2: a barrier. If we're saying, on one hand, it's really 326 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 2: important that people are online and it's the efficient way 327 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 2: and it's the way of the future, then let's not 328 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:57,360 Speaker 2: have barriers that stop people doing it, and let's support 329 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 2: those who need help financially to be able to manage that, 330 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 2: and just recognize the impacts that these closure will have 331 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 2: on communities, that it will have on individuals and how 332 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 2: do we transition. 333 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Karen. 334 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:16,440 Speaker 2: Well good, thank you for the opportunity. 335 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 336 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 337 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: at enzidherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is 338 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 1: hosted and produced by me Chelsea Daniels Caine. Dicky is 339 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: our studio operator, Richard Martin, our producer and editor, and 340 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: our executive producer is Jane Ye. Follow the Front Page 341 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: on the iHeart app or wherever you get your podcasts, 342 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 1: and join us next time for another look beyond the headlines.