1 00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:12,693 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks B follow 2 00:00:12,773 --> 00:00:16,133 Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:16,613 --> 00:00:19,332 Speaker 2: We're looking at whether or not reality TV show should 4 00:00:19,573 --> 00:00:23,533 Speaker 2: get a government rebate given the loss and advertising revenue 5 00:00:23,533 --> 00:00:26,653 Speaker 2: in the industry, the loss of jobs. Joining us now 6 00:00:26,692 --> 00:00:27,893 Speaker 2: and you can be on the program as well on No. 7 00:00:27,893 --> 00:00:29,613 Speaker 2: Eight hundred eighty ten to eighty. But Joining us now 8 00:00:29,653 --> 00:00:33,013 Speaker 2: is the managing director of South Pacific Pictures. Andrew Shusterman 9 00:00:33,053 --> 00:00:36,333 Speaker 2: has been with the company since twenty twenty. He's worked 10 00:00:36,373 --> 00:00:40,212 Speaker 2: on shows which are in this category of reality or 11 00:00:40,253 --> 00:00:43,013 Speaker 2: what is also known as unscripted content, So shows like 12 00:00:43,053 --> 00:00:46,732 Speaker 2: Travel Guides, The Doghouse, Snack Masters, The Traders, I mean 13 00:00:46,732 --> 00:00:50,853 Speaker 2: The Traders, Big Show, Travel Guides. These are major shows. It's, 14 00:00:50,973 --> 00:00:53,533 Speaker 2: as I keep saying, it's not just married at first sight. 15 00:00:54,373 --> 00:00:58,813 Speaker 2: So whether or not a being eligible for the rebate 16 00:00:58,893 --> 00:01:01,813 Speaker 2: is something that could really benefit the industry and therefore 17 00:01:01,853 --> 00:01:04,933 Speaker 2: New Zealand Andrew Shustaman joins us now. Good afternoon, Hi 18 00:01:05,093 --> 00:01:08,012 Speaker 2: com hell are you do be very good? So Shane 19 00:01:08,053 --> 00:01:10,053 Speaker 2: Curry article it's in the paper today, What did you 20 00:01:10,093 --> 00:01:10,493 Speaker 2: make of it? 21 00:01:11,213 --> 00:01:13,212 Speaker 3: Well, I was dr I was actually just dropping my 22 00:01:13,453 --> 00:01:15,853 Speaker 3: son back off to go back to university, and I 23 00:01:15,893 --> 00:01:17,413 Speaker 3: was listening to your show on the way back and 24 00:01:17,893 --> 00:01:22,493 Speaker 3: heard the topic, and I've read Shane's article this morning. Look, 25 00:01:22,613 --> 00:01:26,173 Speaker 3: using the word reality is highly inflammatory, right it is. 26 00:01:26,572 --> 00:01:29,893 Speaker 3: It gets everyone thinks they know has their picture of reality, 27 00:01:29,973 --> 00:01:32,733 Speaker 3: and in their mind, reality is just junk and isn't 28 00:01:32,773 --> 00:01:37,532 Speaker 3: good TV. Realistically, what we refer to as content is unscripted. 29 00:01:37,572 --> 00:01:39,613 Speaker 3: If you take a show like Dancing with the Stars, 30 00:01:40,013 --> 00:01:43,173 Speaker 3: that isn't a reality TV show, It's an unscripted light 31 00:01:43,413 --> 00:01:47,293 Speaker 3: entertainment show. So by just referring to these shows as reality, 32 00:01:47,333 --> 00:01:49,973 Speaker 3: of course we expect and it's a great talkback topic 33 00:01:50,053 --> 00:01:53,333 Speaker 3: because you know, it's we want people to argue about 34 00:01:53,373 --> 00:01:55,533 Speaker 3: these things, much like we do on Married Up First Site. 35 00:01:55,573 --> 00:01:57,413 Speaker 3: When we watch Married Up First Site, the reason we 36 00:01:57,453 --> 00:01:59,853 Speaker 3: watched that. We're not looking at watching that show for, 37 00:02:00,693 --> 00:02:03,573 Speaker 3: you know, for great storylines. We're watching it for the arguments. 38 00:02:03,613 --> 00:02:06,453 Speaker 3: And this is what makes things race. And the thing 39 00:02:06,493 --> 00:02:09,933 Speaker 3: about these shows and shows like That's Australia is that 40 00:02:09,933 --> 00:02:15,213 Speaker 3: they rate incredibly, incredibly well and most of your audience, 41 00:02:15,333 --> 00:02:16,972 Speaker 3: or a lot of the audience, if they were honest 42 00:02:17,013 --> 00:02:19,813 Speaker 3: with themselves, they would actually accept that they have watched 43 00:02:19,813 --> 00:02:22,093 Speaker 3: an episode to are marrit at First Site, that their 44 00:02:22,133 --> 00:02:24,053 Speaker 3: partners probably watch it and they probably get caught up 45 00:02:24,053 --> 00:02:27,252 Speaker 3: in a few of those episodes, because the ratings prove 46 00:02:27,532 --> 00:02:30,412 Speaker 3: that that's the case. When we look at this from 47 00:02:30,413 --> 00:02:32,013 Speaker 3: a New Zealand point of view, we look at this 48 00:02:32,053 --> 00:02:35,132 Speaker 3: about making it an even playing field. So currently, if 49 00:02:35,133 --> 00:02:37,693 Speaker 3: we were to shoot, if Married at First Site Australia 50 00:02:37,773 --> 00:02:40,333 Speaker 3: was to shoot in New Zealand, it would be eligible 51 00:02:40,333 --> 00:02:44,773 Speaker 3: for a rebate. It could get the rebate a government rebate. 52 00:02:45,493 --> 00:02:49,373 Speaker 3: Local shows of international formats can't. And we're trying to 53 00:02:49,373 --> 00:02:52,933 Speaker 3: even that playing field because the television environment is changed 54 00:02:52,972 --> 00:02:56,412 Speaker 3: so dramatically as we know that these high rating shows 55 00:02:56,532 --> 00:02:59,973 Speaker 3: and for many reasons along for advertising review and the 56 00:03:00,013 --> 00:03:02,493 Speaker 3: fact that the streamers are taking audience share off what 57 00:03:02,733 --> 00:03:05,493 Speaker 3: was traditional television being TV and Z and Stey and 58 00:03:05,573 --> 00:03:09,093 Speaker 3: TV three means that these shows are still watched and 59 00:03:09,133 --> 00:03:12,573 Speaker 3: that backs up your argument earlier today. But the funding 60 00:03:12,613 --> 00:03:15,452 Speaker 3: model needs to change because if we lose these shows, 61 00:03:15,893 --> 00:03:19,893 Speaker 3: like you said, we have a massive hole unemployment and 62 00:03:20,173 --> 00:03:22,893 Speaker 3: you know in the industry, and on top of that 63 00:03:23,053 --> 00:03:28,253 Speaker 3: have an inability to provide creatives to make international shows 64 00:03:28,373 --> 00:03:31,692 Speaker 3: on a mass scale, and our industry, the local industry, 65 00:03:31,733 --> 00:03:35,213 Speaker 3: and the international industry are combined and one cannot survive 66 00:03:35,253 --> 00:03:38,013 Speaker 3: without the other. And if we don't have a local industry, 67 00:03:38,333 --> 00:03:40,653 Speaker 3: we don't have an international industry. It's that simple. 68 00:03:41,093 --> 00:03:43,133 Speaker 2: And that's what I was saying before, is that you know, 69 00:03:43,293 --> 00:03:45,413 Speaker 2: whether we look down our noses at certain shows or not, 70 00:03:45,933 --> 00:03:49,172 Speaker 2: that people who work in the industry work across lots 71 00:03:49,213 --> 00:03:50,573 Speaker 2: of different shows, and so. 72 00:03:50,853 --> 00:03:54,213 Speaker 3: Yes, it's so subjective. Exactly when we say that someone 73 00:03:54,213 --> 00:03:56,293 Speaker 3: looks down their nose at one of those shows, that 74 00:03:56,373 --> 00:03:59,853 Speaker 3: show may rate incredibly well and be someone's favorite. Not 75 00:03:59,973 --> 00:04:02,253 Speaker 3: everyone is going to love everything. It's like if you 76 00:04:02,293 --> 00:04:06,133 Speaker 3: look at some scripted series or some documentaries, some are terrible, 77 00:04:06,333 --> 00:04:10,173 Speaker 3: some are amazing. It's the same unscripted space. It's no different. 78 00:04:10,493 --> 00:04:12,773 Speaker 3: It's just when we put that reality lens over it. 79 00:04:12,893 --> 00:04:16,413 Speaker 3: We use the word reality and we automatically think Kardashians 80 00:04:16,533 --> 00:04:19,813 Speaker 3: or we think something of van Elk that we that 81 00:04:19,893 --> 00:04:21,813 Speaker 3: we go into the space where we just hate it. 82 00:04:21,893 --> 00:04:24,533 Speaker 3: And it has to be a way more measured conversation 83 00:04:24,853 --> 00:04:29,133 Speaker 3: around unscripted content shows. And this is about audiences. This 84 00:04:29,253 --> 00:04:33,493 Speaker 3: is about creating shows and maintaining shows that audiences love 85 00:04:33,973 --> 00:04:36,173 Speaker 3: and there is no doubt that they love them, even 86 00:04:36,253 --> 00:04:39,493 Speaker 3: though if on talkback people say they don't, because that's 87 00:04:39,533 --> 00:04:42,533 Speaker 3: the nature of talkback. And so I feel like there 88 00:04:42,533 --> 00:04:46,093 Speaker 3: has to be just bringing some even key to the conversation. 89 00:04:45,773 --> 00:04:48,013 Speaker 2: Right, No, no, no, I want that, you know, and 90 00:04:48,053 --> 00:04:51,653 Speaker 2: you know, and I've been trying to do that because 91 00:04:52,373 --> 00:04:55,653 Speaker 2: I've worked in TV as well, and you know, and 92 00:04:55,693 --> 00:04:57,773 Speaker 2: I think it's so sad when you realize that there 93 00:04:57,773 --> 00:05:00,533 Speaker 2: are people, like you were saying, people who are creatives, 94 00:05:00,573 --> 00:05:04,693 Speaker 2: people who have these skills, and there's still a demand 95 00:05:04,933 --> 00:05:08,293 Speaker 2: to watch these things. But if people can't be employed 96 00:05:08,413 --> 00:05:11,053 Speaker 2: by it because of that lost and advertising revenue, then 97 00:05:11,613 --> 00:05:14,373 Speaker 2: that impacts us down the line, and we don't see 98 00:05:14,413 --> 00:05:15,813 Speaker 2: as many New Zealanders on our screen. 99 00:05:15,933 --> 00:05:18,333 Speaker 3: Correct and that and at the end of this, at 100 00:05:18,333 --> 00:05:20,253 Speaker 3: the end of this, it's about how do we keep 101 00:05:20,253 --> 00:05:23,173 Speaker 3: our stories alive? And this is a wider conversation which 102 00:05:23,213 --> 00:05:26,133 Speaker 3: goes into a whole different category around the streamers and 103 00:05:26,133 --> 00:05:28,493 Speaker 3: the impact of the streamers and the fact that they 104 00:05:28,493 --> 00:05:31,013 Speaker 3: aren't commissioning any local programs here, which is a whole 105 00:05:31,013 --> 00:05:34,573 Speaker 3: different conversation for a different day. But this is about 106 00:05:34,573 --> 00:05:39,093 Speaker 3: protecting our local sector, about making shows that people watch 107 00:05:39,253 --> 00:05:42,733 Speaker 3: and enjoy on a regular basis, and keeping New Zealand 108 00:05:42,853 --> 00:05:48,133 Speaker 3: is employed while as you say, representing ourselves on screen. 109 00:05:48,573 --> 00:05:51,173 Speaker 3: And some people might like those shows and some people 110 00:05:51,213 --> 00:05:54,453 Speaker 3: may not. But the alternative is if we head down 111 00:05:54,493 --> 00:05:56,933 Speaker 3: this line and get rid of popular shows that people 112 00:05:57,453 --> 00:06:01,013 Speaker 3: enjoy on TV, is that not only does the industry collapse, 113 00:06:01,413 --> 00:06:05,613 Speaker 3: but the television the television channels themselves collapse. Right, So 114 00:06:05,893 --> 00:06:08,253 Speaker 3: it's be careful what you wish for if that's the case. 115 00:06:08,493 --> 00:06:10,613 Speaker 3: And all I'm saying is be that we're measured in 116 00:06:10,653 --> 00:06:13,613 Speaker 3: your approach. I'm talking about when you're thinking about these things, 117 00:06:13,853 --> 00:06:17,533 Speaker 3: you're not just categorizing in one place and going reality TV. 118 00:06:17,693 --> 00:06:19,813 Speaker 3: Is this therefore I must hate it? 119 00:06:20,373 --> 00:06:23,373 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Which is why to explain that that so 120 00:06:23,573 --> 00:06:26,213 Speaker 2: much of what falls under the umbrella of reality, which 121 00:06:26,293 --> 00:06:31,413 Speaker 2: in the in TV Lingo is unscripted. It shows that 122 00:06:31,413 --> 00:06:33,293 Speaker 2: people will love or rather. 123 00:06:33,533 --> 00:06:36,613 Speaker 3: Country Calendar as an unscripted center you go. You could 124 00:06:36,653 --> 00:06:38,693 Speaker 3: turn around and say that Country Calendar is a reality 125 00:06:38,733 --> 00:06:40,573 Speaker 3: show if you wanted to put it in that space. 126 00:06:42,693 --> 00:06:45,893 Speaker 3: It's in that same realm of things that don't rely 127 00:06:46,013 --> 00:06:48,533 Speaker 3: on a script, and so we have to just be 128 00:06:48,613 --> 00:06:51,093 Speaker 3: careful about the way that we couch this and the 129 00:06:51,133 --> 00:06:54,933 Speaker 3: way we talk about this, because it isn't as simple 130 00:06:54,973 --> 00:06:58,053 Speaker 3: as saying we don't want married at first sight or 131 00:06:58,093 --> 00:06:59,773 Speaker 3: any of that stuff on TV. 132 00:07:01,093 --> 00:07:03,173 Speaker 2: A couple more questions, Well, yeah, I mean as you 133 00:07:03,213 --> 00:07:06,653 Speaker 2: say it rights through the roof. A couple of questions. 134 00:07:06,693 --> 00:07:09,653 Speaker 2: While I've got you, how optimistic are you? And by 135 00:07:09,693 --> 00:07:10,933 Speaker 2: the way, I for you are just joining us. Andrew 136 00:07:10,933 --> 00:07:14,173 Speaker 2: Schusteman is with us, managing director of South Pacific Pictures. 137 00:07:14,653 --> 00:07:17,773 Speaker 2: How optimistic are you that the government will realize that 138 00:07:17,813 --> 00:07:23,213 Speaker 2: they do have to intervene in order to help save 139 00:07:23,493 --> 00:07:24,613 Speaker 2: the broader industry. 140 00:07:25,293 --> 00:07:27,493 Speaker 3: Let's be kept what we're saying here. We're saying this 141 00:07:27,573 --> 00:07:30,613 Speaker 3: is a rebate. This isn't funding. This is basically money 142 00:07:30,693 --> 00:07:33,973 Speaker 3: has to be spent for money to be returned. Right. 143 00:07:34,893 --> 00:07:37,413 Speaker 3: This is not basically going for a handout. This is 144 00:07:37,693 --> 00:07:40,093 Speaker 3: in saying can you pay for my show? Facts, This 145 00:07:40,173 --> 00:07:42,933 Speaker 3: is basically saying we have all this money here that 146 00:07:43,373 --> 00:07:46,013 Speaker 3: the networks are putting in or the commercial partners are 147 00:07:46,013 --> 00:07:48,813 Speaker 3: putting in. This is about going, how do we get 148 00:07:48,853 --> 00:07:51,413 Speaker 3: This is about attaching a rebate to that. So this 149 00:07:51,493 --> 00:07:54,013 Speaker 3: is not simply going can you pay for one hundred 150 00:07:54,053 --> 00:07:56,293 Speaker 3: percent of the show? This is not New Zealand on air. 151 00:07:56,893 --> 00:08:00,053 Speaker 3: The rebate scheme, the screen production rebate has been an 152 00:08:00,093 --> 00:08:02,373 Speaker 3: action for years and years and years and works well. 153 00:08:02,413 --> 00:08:04,733 Speaker 3: It works on shows like it works on films like Avatar, 154 00:08:04,813 --> 00:08:07,493 Speaker 3: It's worked on Lord of the Roots. It is That's 155 00:08:07,533 --> 00:08:11,533 Speaker 3: how rebates work funding. How do I think the government 156 00:08:11,573 --> 00:08:14,933 Speaker 3: is going to look at this piece here? I don't know. 157 00:08:16,133 --> 00:08:18,413 Speaker 3: I can't pick that. I hope they look at it 158 00:08:18,453 --> 00:08:20,893 Speaker 3: favorably because it's about employing New Zealanders and making sure 159 00:08:20,893 --> 00:08:23,333 Speaker 3: where you have ourselves represented on screen more and more. 160 00:08:23,813 --> 00:08:25,293 Speaker 2: And then the second question, and this is something you 161 00:08:25,333 --> 00:08:28,853 Speaker 2: briefly touched on so hypothetically, and a show I could 162 00:08:28,893 --> 00:08:31,293 Speaker 2: imagine doing it. Let's say you've got The Bachelor or 163 00:08:31,373 --> 00:08:35,013 Speaker 2: The Bachelor Rat the Australian version or an American version, 164 00:08:35,653 --> 00:08:38,013 Speaker 2: and they decide that they want to film in New Zealand, 165 00:08:38,053 --> 00:08:40,093 Speaker 2: so not the New Zealand version, but an international version. 166 00:08:40,333 --> 00:08:43,573 Speaker 2: So they is an international show, irrespective of what genre 167 00:08:43,612 --> 00:08:46,012 Speaker 2: they are. They is an international show. They can get 168 00:08:46,053 --> 00:08:48,612 Speaker 2: the rebate. But if we were making the same show here, no. 169 00:08:48,653 --> 00:08:51,012 Speaker 3: Rebate on P one hundred percent. And look there are 170 00:08:51,053 --> 00:08:54,373 Speaker 3: caveats to that, but the theory, and that's getting into 171 00:08:54,413 --> 00:08:58,652 Speaker 3: deep detail. But in theory, the Bachelor US can come 172 00:08:58,693 --> 00:09:01,293 Speaker 3: to New Zealand and should it meet the criteria, which 173 00:09:01,333 --> 00:09:04,492 Speaker 3: has nothing to do with the format or the show 174 00:09:04,533 --> 00:09:07,252 Speaker 3: title itself, it is eligible for a rebate. That's how 175 00:09:07,252 --> 00:09:10,372 Speaker 3: screen production works. It's the same as that. That's the 176 00:09:10,413 --> 00:09:13,412 Speaker 3: way that it works. It's incentivized people to come here. 177 00:09:13,573 --> 00:09:15,093 Speaker 3: For instance, if we look at a show like The 178 00:09:15,132 --> 00:09:20,053 Speaker 3: Trader's New Zealand, which has done incredibly well on the BBC, again, 179 00:09:20,093 --> 00:09:23,293 Speaker 3: it's taking our shows internationally, yet I can't get that 180 00:09:23,333 --> 00:09:27,293 Speaker 3: show funded through the rebates currently because it's an international format. 181 00:09:27,372 --> 00:09:32,012 Speaker 3: But it also exports itself. So I know New Zealanders 182 00:09:32,892 --> 00:09:34,573 Speaker 3: nuanced conversation. 183 00:09:34,213 --> 00:09:36,852 Speaker 2: Right, I know New Zealanders who live in Singapore who 184 00:09:36,933 --> 00:09:39,492 Speaker 2: love that show. New zealandersho live in the UK who 185 00:09:39,492 --> 00:09:42,492 Speaker 2: love that show. That so so one, it's exporting our culture, 186 00:09:42,533 --> 00:09:44,653 Speaker 2: but it's also giving New Zealand as a broad a 187 00:09:44,693 --> 00:09:47,213 Speaker 2: taste of home that I know that's done extremely well overseas. 188 00:09:47,612 --> 00:09:49,652 Speaker 3: And if you think about things back in the day, 189 00:09:49,813 --> 00:09:52,492 Speaker 3: you know the idols, the ex factors that is showing 190 00:09:52,612 --> 00:09:57,852 Speaker 3: telling us in our talents, our kids and our teens 191 00:09:57,892 --> 00:10:02,293 Speaker 3: and adults on television and showcasing singing under a formatted 192 00:10:02,492 --> 00:10:05,532 Speaker 3: kind of world. But it is again, it's another part 193 00:10:05,573 --> 00:10:07,733 Speaker 3: of our storytelling. It's another part of seeing our culture 194 00:10:07,773 --> 00:10:10,372 Speaker 3: on TV. And how sad is it that we don't 195 00:10:10,413 --> 00:10:12,613 Speaker 3: have a lot of that on television anymore and that 196 00:10:12,653 --> 00:10:15,892 Speaker 3: we're relying on international imports of shows. Don't we want 197 00:10:15,892 --> 00:10:18,492 Speaker 3: to see more of ourselves on screen? Are we beyond 198 00:10:18,492 --> 00:10:21,052 Speaker 3: the cringe factor of that? I think we are if 199 00:10:21,093 --> 00:10:23,773 Speaker 3: we truly admit it. We do well with our music, 200 00:10:24,053 --> 00:10:27,933 Speaker 3: we do well with film Internationally, our television shows scripted 201 00:10:28,012 --> 00:10:31,093 Speaker 3: get picked up, our unscripted shows get picked up. Let's 202 00:10:31,132 --> 00:10:33,333 Speaker 3: be proud of that, Let's celebrate that. Let's see more 203 00:10:33,333 --> 00:10:35,733 Speaker 3: of it. Instead of coming up with reasons as to 204 00:10:35,813 --> 00:10:39,052 Speaker 3: why we shouldn't. This is about employing New Zealanders. It's 205 00:10:39,053 --> 00:10:42,132 Speaker 3: about hearing our stories and seeing ourselves on TV here 206 00:10:42,293 --> 00:10:43,172 Speaker 3: and internationally. 207 00:10:43,773 --> 00:10:46,412 Speaker 2: Great stuff. I echo everything you've said and please to 208 00:10:46,413 --> 00:10:49,573 Speaker 2: have you on the program. Andrews, managing director of Take 209 00:10:49,612 --> 00:10:52,292 Speaker 2: Care My Pleasure, Managing director of South Pacific Pictures. 210 00:10:53,012 --> 00:10:55,693 Speaker 1: For more from News Talks, Ed B. Listen live on 211 00:10:55,732 --> 00:10:58,693 Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever 212 00:10:58,732 --> 00:11:01,292 Speaker 1: you go with our podcasts on IR Radio