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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks B. Follow

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Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: It's time for all the attitude, all the opinion, all

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Speaker 1: the information, all the debates of the now, the Leyton

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Speaker 1: Smith Podcast powered by News Talks ed B.

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Speaker 2: Welcome as we continue through our summer break with replays

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Speaker 2: of some of the best podcasts that we all the

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Speaker 2: best interviews that we've done in the past year also,

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Speaker 2: and so we come to doctor Pierre Corey. This was

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Speaker 2: one of the best of the best prior to COVID nineteen.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Pier Corey was an internationally renowned pioneer in the

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Speaker 2: field of critical care ultrasnography, equally so in other areas

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Speaker 2: of medicine. In twenty twenty three, he published The War

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Speaker 2: on ivermecton the medicine that saved millions and could have

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Speaker 2: ended the pandemic. Now what ensued was that the challenges

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Speaker 2: that were to confront him over the next few years

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Speaker 2: changed his life. He was confronted with the seat, corruption,

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Speaker 2: threats and dismissal. But now the tide has turned. This

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Speaker 2: interview is a must listen. See you at the other side.

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Speaker 2: Ivermectin is a dirty word in the media. It doesn't work.

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Speaker 2: It's a deadly horse stea wormer, prescribed and promoted as

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Speaker 2: you'll be called a right wing quack and be banned

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Speaker 2: from social media or lose your license to practice medicine.

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Speaker 2: And yet entire countries wiped out the virus with it,

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Speaker 2: and more than ninety five studies now show it to

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Speaker 2: be unequivocally effective in preventing and treating COVID nineteen. Ask

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Speaker 2: youseolv this question. If it didn't work, why was there

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Speaker 2: a coordinated global campaign to cancel it? What is the

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Speaker 2: truth about this decades old Nobel Prize winning medication? Now,

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Speaker 2: the words I've just quoted are from the inside cover

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Speaker 2: of the book, The War on Ivermectum. It was published

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three, and it was sold all over

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Speaker 2: the world. To say that it's worth reading is an

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Speaker 2: understatement of major proportion. But I had trouble finding a copy,

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Speaker 2: at least one that I could buy immediately. I only

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Speaker 2: had a few days notice. Subtitled the Medicine that saved

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Speaker 2: millions and could have entered the pandemic, its author is,

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Speaker 2: as you'll discover, a fascinating individual doctor per Corey. It's

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Speaker 2: a pleasure to finally get to talk with you.

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Speaker 3: Laton, my pleasure as well. Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: We're doing this between golf games.

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Speaker 4: I gather exactly, I'm on vacation, but I wanted to

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Speaker 4: make time for you.

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Speaker 3: I think it's an important conversation always.

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Speaker 2: Well, you certainly do your fair share of media. So

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Speaker 2: I want to start just with we'll jump around a

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Speaker 2: little bit. I actually we'll jump around a lot, it's

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Speaker 2: my podcast. But yeah, I want to start with a

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Speaker 2: little experience that you had because this this intrigued me

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Speaker 2: with a political legend. And this comes under the hitting

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Speaker 2: right at the right near the beginning of the book

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Speaker 2: where you are talking about old Pierre as opposed to

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Speaker 2: new Pierre. But old Pierre was a fascinating character before

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Speaker 2: he changed. So who was old Pierre?

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Speaker 3: Oh boy? Yeah, So that was that was the opening

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Speaker 3: of my book.

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Speaker 4: Well really described, you know, my kind of awakening in COVID,

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Speaker 4: and so compared to what I believed and what I

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Speaker 4: thought were the was the truth to what I came

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Speaker 4: to believe, it created an old and a new Pierre.

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Speaker 4: So the old Pierre, as I describe it, the old

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Speaker 4: Pierre read the New York Times and thought it was

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Speaker 4: the arbiter of truth. And if you really wanted to

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Speaker 4: know what was going on, you read the New York

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Speaker 4: Times and you would substitute whatever your main major daily

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Speaker 4: newspaper is in New Zealand. But that's the quote unquote

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Speaker 4: paper of record in the United States. I read that

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Speaker 4: since I was six. I believed in the high impact

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Speaker 4: medical journals. I thought only the best science and scientists

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Speaker 4: published there. I believed in our healthcare public health agencies.

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Speaker 4: I thought only the best science and scientists would form

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Speaker 4: those opinions and give that kind of guidance. I trusted.

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Speaker 4: I don't think I really questioned mainstream media. I kind

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Speaker 4: of felt like they're just reporting on stories and that's

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Speaker 4: what was going on. And I was just very basically

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Speaker 4: trusting in the institutions of society. And that was a

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Speaker 4: world that I lived in, and I thought everything was

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Speaker 4: I don't want to say normal, but I just that

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Speaker 4: was my frame of reference for the world I lived in.

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Speaker 3: And laden you want to ask me what the new

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Speaker 3: pier is, well, let's put it.

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Speaker 2: Let's put it this way. The title of the book

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Speaker 2: is The War on Either Migdon, and it just came

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Speaker 2: to me as I was reading, and I thought a

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Speaker 2: good subtitle would be the Education of Pierre Corey.

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Speaker 4: Yes, because because it really does describe a journey for sure.

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Speaker 2: So what about the new peer?

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Speaker 3: I mean, the new.

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Speaker 4: Pierre has come to learn that what the old Pierre

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Speaker 4: believed is simply not true. And I hate going you

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Speaker 4: like dark or negative thoughts so quickly. I mean, the

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Speaker 4: new Pierre has come to realize that the old Pierre's

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Speaker 4: impressions and perceptions of the world were simply not based

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Speaker 4: in fact.

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Speaker 3: They were based in perception.

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Speaker 4: And you know, I became very inspired and challenged by

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Speaker 4: COVID and from the get go, before even the hit

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Speaker 4: US shores, me and my colleagues were.

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Speaker 3: Starting to study. Look at this.

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Speaker 4: You know, I was a mininary and critical care physician,

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Speaker 4: you know, very high up in academia in the United States.

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Speaker 4: I was the chief of the critical care service as

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Speaker 4: well as the director of the ICU at a major

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Speaker 4: academic medical center here at the University of Wisconsin, huge

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Speaker 4: research funded institution, and so I was in charge of

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Speaker 4: our initial COVID response and I was doing that while

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Speaker 4: studying the disease was again it was a pulmonary and

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Speaker 4: critical care disease that was coming at us. And that began,

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Speaker 4: you know, three or four or five years now of

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Speaker 4: deep study, talking to doctors, reading pre prints, you know,

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Speaker 4: reading everything I could, and then also just keenly observing

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Speaker 4: various therapies, how the variants were changing, how people became ill,

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Speaker 4: because it wasn't you know, it's a similar disease, but

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Speaker 4: the variants did change, and things became more difficult and

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Speaker 4: less difficult.

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Speaker 3: Does various change.

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Speaker 4: And so I've been immersed in the science of COVID

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Speaker 4: and particularly the ivermactin, you know, so I became I

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Speaker 4: would consider myself one of the clinical experts in the

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Speaker 4: use of ivermactin in COVID, and so I knew the

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Speaker 4: truth about ivermactin.

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Speaker 2: How did that end into your life?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So what happened was is when I first bonded

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Speaker 4: with my colleague Paul Marris. So he and I were

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Speaker 4: good friends. We shared a lot of research into IVY

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Speaker 4: vitamin C. So we'd been friendly and interacted and he's

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Speaker 4: a very prominent physician. So he was the most published

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Speaker 4: practicing critical care medicine doctor in the history of our specialties,

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Speaker 4: very very famous well known. He and I become friends

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Speaker 4: because we did neutral research on a topic, and so

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Speaker 4: people reached out to him because the governments were not

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Speaker 4: coming up with treatment protocols. They were just saying like

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Speaker 4: stay home until your lips turned blue. When you got

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Speaker 4: to the hospital. They didn't do anything but like oxygen

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Speaker 4: and ventilators in Thailand all or legacidamnifin. I mean, it

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Speaker 4: was absolutely outrageous that no one was trying to treat

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Speaker 4: this disease. And there are all these arts, there's no

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Speaker 4: studies to show you how to treat it, so basically

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Speaker 4: do nothing.

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Speaker 3: It was just brazenly absurd reasoning.

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Speaker 4: And so we started to study various therapies and we

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Speaker 4: came up with a hospital protocol and so some people,

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Speaker 4: prominent people asked Paul to form a group to put

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Speaker 4: out protocols. So we formed a nonprofit organization called the

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Speaker 4: FLCCC Alliance and we started to post protocols first in

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Speaker 4: the hospital. We did not have an early treatment protocol

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Speaker 4: for another six months.

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Speaker 3: But what Paul did was very clever.

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Speaker 4: We were following the data on various therapeutics you could

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Speaker 4: use as now patient, and we'd had this chart and

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Speaker 4: he would put like green, yellow, and red lights, you know,

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Speaker 4: in terms of how much the evidence was showing support

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Speaker 4: for various therapies. And I remacton was always on that

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Speaker 4: chart with a question mark because we'd heard some things

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Speaker 4: that I re meted may be effective, but we had

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Speaker 4: no data, we had no science, no trials. And it

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Speaker 4: was really October of twenty twenty, probably what is six

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Speaker 4: seven months into the pandemic, when all of a sudden,

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Speaker 4: a series of studies from various places around the world

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Speaker 4: started coming out showing this incredible efficacy of ivermactin.

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Speaker 3: I granted they.

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Speaker 4: Were small studies, but there's nothing wrong with a small study,

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Speaker 4: because what a small study can't do is it can't

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Speaker 4: detect small benefits. But when a small study detects large benefits,

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Speaker 4: you have a lot of.

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Speaker 3: Difficulty explaining those way.

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Speaker 4: And so we were seeing these immense benefits come out

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Speaker 4: from these studies, and Paul brought it to our attention

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Speaker 4: in the group, and we put it into a protocol.

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Speaker 3: We had an early treatment protocol.

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Speaker 4: We added many other medicines, you know, subsequent to that,

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Speaker 4: But that's really what happened.

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Speaker 3: And when Paul, when those.

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Speaker 4: First few trials, Paul picked up on that signal, I said,

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Speaker 4: I'm going to write a review paper on all of

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Speaker 4: the merging evidence of ivermactin and COVID. And it was

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Speaker 4: a really hard paper to write. For one reason laden

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Speaker 4: is that every time I was about to finish it

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Speaker 4: and upload it to a pre print server or submitted

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Speaker 4: to a journal, another study would come out. And it

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Speaker 4: seemed like every week there was a new study. And

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Speaker 4: I always make the joke that I had a reference

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Speaker 4: manager for my manuscripts, which didn't work very well. So

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Speaker 4: I was manually reordering my references and.

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Speaker 3: Talked hours hours and hours and hours. But anyway, that's

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Speaker 3: kind of the story.

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Speaker 4: And I put out that paper in November of twenty twenty,

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Speaker 4: and then Senator Ron Johnson, who was like me, he

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Speaker 4: was similarly, you know, very kind of disappointed as a

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Speaker 4: mild word. I mean, he was irate that the government

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Speaker 4: was doing nothing to provide guidance on treatment, and so

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Speaker 4: he held these hearings. I testified for the first time

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Speaker 4: actually in May of twenty twenty on the critical need

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Speaker 4: for cortico steroids in the hospital phase of the disease.

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Speaker 4: And by the way, I did that at a time

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Speaker 4: when every national and international healthcare organization around the world

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Speaker 4: was recommending against cortical steroids. So I got into my

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Speaker 4: first rodeo in COVID was cordico steroids, because I got

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Speaker 4: hammered for that.

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Speaker 2: Right, just steroids or what exactly they are.

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Speaker 4: There's a strong anti inflammatory ammino suppressant, so they suppress inflammation.

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Speaker 4: So the things like prednozone or hydrocortizone you might have

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Speaker 4: heard of, or quarters and those are cordico steroids, and

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Speaker 4: and everybody was saying don't use them, even though these

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Speaker 4: patients were hyper inflaming. Then their lungs were actually failing

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Speaker 4: from excessive inflammation. So it was not really a stretch

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Speaker 4: to know that it was important, and we had a

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Speaker 4: lot of scientific evidence from stars and mers, but.

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Speaker 3: Yet everybody's recommending against it.

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Speaker 4: And it was just bizarre because Paul and I are

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Speaker 4: expert clinicians and we've been at the bedside trying to

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Speaker 4: keep patients alive for you know, decades, Like we know

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Speaker 4: stuff that works, we know that it doesn't work, and

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Speaker 4: we were using COVID to good effect. And so that

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Speaker 4: was kind of the first thing. And but I'll just

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Speaker 4: say that first chapter, although I was attacked viciously, even

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Speaker 4: by my own university. Within three months, it became the

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Speaker 4: standard of care worldwide. So people forget that my early,

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Speaker 4: my early should I say, dissent in treatment of COVID

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Speaker 4: was later validated.

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Speaker 2: But when it got sorry, was it was it validated

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Speaker 2: with recognition?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Well no, no, no, no, no, no one ever said, hey,

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Speaker 3: doctor Chris, sorry we attacked you.

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Speaker 4: No that that goes water under the bridge, no one,

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Speaker 4: no one, No one ever apologizes. But I know that

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Speaker 4: I was validated because what I had said earlier became

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Speaker 4: the standard of care. But no, there's no public you know,

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Speaker 4: championing or you get what I'm saying late. So but

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Speaker 4: then you know, the same thing happened with ivermactin is

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Speaker 4: that we had this incredible signal. The first patient I

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Speaker 4: treated turned around overnight with ivermactin. And I was also

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Speaker 4: talked to the doctors from various places around the world

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Speaker 4: that they were just telling me these incredible benefits. I mean,

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Speaker 4: nobody was dying in places they were using avermactin. I

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Speaker 4: talked to patients in South America and India, plus all

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Speaker 4: of the studies showed the same thing. And then I

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Speaker 4: got to testify again in Senator Johnston's hearing in December

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Speaker 4: of twenty twenty, and that testimony went viral and then

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Speaker 4: ivermactin became a real issue. It was on the tongues

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Speaker 4: of everybody. Everyone was considering it.

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Speaker 3: But when I first testified, I listen.

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Speaker 4: I didn't think I would get a ticker tape parade,

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Speaker 4: But I thought people would appreciate that we'd identified this

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Speaker 4: really positive data signal, and they would incorporate it into

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Speaker 4: their protocols and people would start to use it.

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Speaker 3: But this is where my life.

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Speaker 4: Changed, is that the opposite happened, and I was very confused.

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Speaker 3: I really didn't know what was going on.

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Speaker 4: But instead it was immediately attacked, dismissed. I was personally attacked.

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Speaker 4: Paul Merrick was personally attack. Hit jobs showed up in

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Speaker 4: the media, and I saw these blatant distortions and untruths

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Speaker 4: being published by the major media organizations around the world,

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Speaker 4: and they all had the same formula, same template, used

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Speaker 4: similar quotes from pedigree doctors from these high fluting agencies

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Speaker 4: and or universities. And it was to say, it was disappointing.

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Speaker 4: It was really a kind of disorienting.

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Speaker 2: Did the corruption. Did the word corruption and.

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Speaker 4: Not at not initially. No, And I'll tell you why

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Speaker 4: I didn't leap to corruption initially. It is because there's

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Speaker 4: this thing in medicine. I don't know if you're aware

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Speaker 4: of it, but there's a field of medicine that actually

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Speaker 4: was first originated in the early nineteen nineties, and it's

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Speaker 4: called evidence based medicine. And it was this development where

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Speaker 4: we as a field decided to really make sure that

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Speaker 4: any treatments we used have sufficient evidence of safety and efficacy.

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Speaker 4: And part of that field is assessing or assigning a

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Speaker 4: quality of evidence to everything, and so it's a very

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Speaker 4: cautious type of thing. It's first member, do no harm, right,

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Speaker 4: But also they just wanted to make sure that the

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Speaker 4: way we treated diseases had scientific evidence to support them.

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Speaker 4: And I believed in evidence based medicine how is practice.

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Speaker 4: But I came to find out that evidence based medicine

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Speaker 4: got corrupted and distorted from its original precepts. And so

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Speaker 4: when it was when my first recommendations were not accepted,

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Speaker 4: like i'd been used to that, I'd had evidence based

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Speaker 4: medicine arguments with colleagues for a decade because every time

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Speaker 4: I said something worked. They were like, where's the randomized

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Speaker 4: controlled trial to show that there's this trial that shows this,

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Speaker 4: this trial that shows that the evidence is conflicting. It's controversial,

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Speaker 4: and I'm I had so many he's tired of arguments. Later,

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Speaker 4: But as a physician, I knew what worked. I mean,

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Speaker 4: I was doing stuff in my practice, in my ICU.

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Speaker 4: I could see patients turning around after I did stuff

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Speaker 4: to them. But yet I'd be lambasted with all of

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Speaker 4: these evidence based medicine arguments that what I was actually

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Speaker 4: doing to help people wasn't working.

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Speaker 3: And so it was a dystopian world a little bit.

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Speaker 4: And so at first I thought this was about an

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Speaker 4: argument over evidence. Is that the agencies around the world

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Speaker 4: and the scientists around the world were not going to

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Speaker 4: rescommend something until they had what's called high quality, rigorous evidence.

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Speaker 4: You know, my word that I'm turning patients around was

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Speaker 4: not enough.

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Speaker 3: We needed the big trial.

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Speaker 2: Right, even the result, Hold up just a second. I'm intrigued.

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Speaker 2: You're in a hospital, you're working in a hospital, and

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Speaker 2: you're doing all this and you're surrounded by other medical people,

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Speaker 2: doctors and spatialists and what have you. Yep, couldn't they

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Speaker 2: see what you were seeing as a result.

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Speaker 3: Well, here's the thing.

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Speaker 4: No, because they're not involved with my patients and me

303
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Speaker 4: telling them that I'm seeing patients turn around with the

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Speaker 4: use of a certain drug, they'd have to take my

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Speaker 4: word for it, and they were. I'm just say propagandized.

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Speaker 4: Was so much negativity towards potential treatments for COVID. Right,

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Speaker 4: So just real quick, as you mentioned, I wrote the

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Speaker 4: book The War and Ivermactin. One of my colleagues could

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Speaker 4: have written the book The War on hydroxy chloroquin because

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Speaker 4: if you read my book when I when I described

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Speaker 4: the War and ivermactin, it was the same exact war

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Speaker 4: as hydroxychloroquin a year prior, the same tactic, same results.

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Speaker 4: And so now I'm kind of jumping to what I've

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Speaker 4: learned is that any low cost, widely available, effective therapeutic

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Speaker 4: that threatens the financial interest or the markets that popped

316
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Speaker 4: up in COVID, not only just with the vaccines, but rendesevir,

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Speaker 4: pac slovid, molnupe, revier, all of these pipeline patented pharmaceuticals,

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Speaker 4: those all these cheap, safe, effective, repurpose therapies threatened them.

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Speaker 4: And so what they do to those therapies is they

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Speaker 4: employed disinformation campaigns. And when I first gave my testimony

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Speaker 4: and ivermactin and the response to it, I couldn't understand it.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know what was going on.

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Speaker 4: I thought, this is more about just like people arguing

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Speaker 4: about wanting, you know, the best evidence.

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Speaker 3: And I thought it was more of a scientific argument.

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Speaker 4: And it was only four months after that when I

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Speaker 4: was still confused, although I started to get other signals

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Speaker 4: that there was something more nefarious than a scientific disagreement.

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Speaker 4: One of the first signs was my review paper, which

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Speaker 4: had been accepted for publication after passing three rounds of

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Speaker 4: rigorous peer review by senior scientists, three of them select

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Speaker 4: it from the NIH and CDC in the US. The

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Speaker 4: journal had accepted it for publication, but they wouldn't publish it.

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Speaker 4: And week after week went by, and I was getting

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Speaker 4: really disturbed by this because it was the winter of

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty twenty one, which was the highest death rates

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Speaker 4: in this country since before or since, I mean, it

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Speaker 4: was a wicked winter of death from COVID, and they

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Speaker 4: wouldn't publish my papers.

340
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Speaker 3: And I finally I.

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Speaker 4: Wrote an accusatory email to the journal, I said, I

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Speaker 4: suspect scientific misconduct, and within a day the editor reached

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Speaker 4: out to my editor and we'd learned that they were

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Speaker 4: retracting the paper.

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Speaker 2: They were not going to publish it. Your question was hansome,

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Speaker 2: My question was.

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Speaker 4: Answered, and that's when I finally realized I was up

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Speaker 4: against something. I didn't know what it was, but it

349
00:20:01,133 --> 00:20:06,133
Speaker 4: wasn't good, and it wasn't scientific, it wasn't humanitarian. I

350
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Speaker 4: knew there was a force that was working against what

351
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Speaker 4: we were trying to do, which has helped people in

352
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Speaker 4: the world, and so I started to get the feeling

353
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Speaker 4: like there was something out there that was working against us.

354
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Speaker 4: And that was the first time when I realized this

355
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Speaker 4: wasn't just a scientific argument. And then what changed my

356
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Speaker 4: life and what she inspired That book was in March

357
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Speaker 4: of twenty twenty one, so four months after my testimony,

358
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Speaker 4: I got an email one morning from someone I didn't know.

359
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Speaker 4: It was a two line email and it was from

360
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Speaker 4: a guy named Professor William B. Grant, and he's one

361
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Speaker 4: of the most published researchers on vitamin D in the world,

362
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Speaker 4: and he wrote me an email out of the blue, said,

363
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Speaker 4: dear doctor Corey, what they're doing to ivermectin, they've been

364
00:20:55,413 --> 00:20:58,853
Speaker 4: doing to vitamin D for decades. And he included a

365
00:20:58,893 --> 00:21:02,973
Speaker 4: link to an article called the Disinformation Playbook, and I

366
00:21:02,973 --> 00:21:04,933
Speaker 4: was really intrigued by this email, so I click on

367
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Speaker 4: the article and I start reading and it's written byzation

368
00:21:08,733 --> 00:21:11,693
Speaker 4: called the Union for Concerns Scientists. It was written in

369
00:21:11,733 --> 00:21:17,133
Speaker 4: twenty seventeen, before the pandemic, and it outlines what industries

370
00:21:17,253 --> 00:21:21,453
Speaker 4: do when science emergers that's inconvenient to their interests. And

371
00:21:21,493 --> 00:21:25,093
Speaker 4: they're named after American football plays. It's like the fake,

372
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Speaker 4: the fix, the screen, the blitz, the diversion. And I'm

373
00:21:28,653 --> 00:21:32,133
Speaker 4: reading the descriptions of these tactics and I'm like, oh

374
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Speaker 4: my god. Suddenly it's like I had the teacher's addition

375
00:21:35,253 --> 00:21:37,733
Speaker 4: to what was going on, because I had I had

376
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Speaker 4: dozens of examples of each of those tactics being deployed

377
00:21:41,293 --> 00:21:44,533
Speaker 4: against ivermactin in the private prior four months. And I

378
00:21:44,573 --> 00:21:47,573
Speaker 4: realized that I was like had a front row seat,

379
00:21:48,093 --> 00:21:51,733
Speaker 4: and I was the target of a global disinformation campaign

380
00:21:51,773 --> 00:21:56,173
Speaker 4: against ivermactin. And that's kind of one of the probably

381
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Speaker 4: one of the biggest, not the only biggest awakenings that

382
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Speaker 4: the world that I thought I lived in was operating

383
00:22:02,973 --> 00:22:05,133
Speaker 4: by very different principles and forces.

384
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Speaker 2: How did that affect you?

385
00:22:11,733 --> 00:22:15,813
Speaker 4: It's an odd answer, but in a way, I wouldn't

386
00:22:15,813 --> 00:22:18,493
Speaker 4: say it made me happy, But yeah, I'm always trying

387
00:22:18,533 --> 00:22:21,453
Speaker 4: to figure out problems and understand ways to navigate and

388
00:22:21,493 --> 00:22:25,413
Speaker 4: go forward and to help. That article helped me really

389
00:22:25,533 --> 00:22:29,093
Speaker 4: positively because now I felt I understood the problem and

390
00:22:29,093 --> 00:22:32,573
Speaker 4: what I was up against and how I could maybe

391
00:22:32,613 --> 00:22:34,933
Speaker 4: start to approach it because I was really confused for

392
00:22:35,013 --> 00:22:38,013
Speaker 4: four months. I started having suspicions that there was something

393
00:22:38,053 --> 00:22:41,853
Speaker 4: going on, and there's probably people who didn't want ivermat

394
00:22:41,893 --> 00:22:44,933
Speaker 4: them to be recommended for everyone. But when I read

395
00:22:44,933 --> 00:22:48,053
Speaker 4: that article, it really brought everything to a sharp focus.

396
00:22:48,973 --> 00:22:51,813
Speaker 4: And it was interesting about the disinformation playbook. It was

397
00:22:51,853 --> 00:22:56,013
Speaker 4: invented in the nineteen fifties by a PR firm, so

398
00:22:56,133 --> 00:22:58,253
Speaker 4: it was literally it's a playbook put together by a

399
00:22:58,253 --> 00:23:02,533
Speaker 4: public relations firm that was hired by the tobacco industry

400
00:23:03,373 --> 00:23:07,773
Speaker 4: when science emerged that was inconvenient to their interests. Right,

401
00:23:07,813 --> 00:23:13,333
Speaker 4: the science around cancer and so the disinformation around tobacco

402
00:23:14,133 --> 00:23:18,333
Speaker 4: had been practiced for fifty years, but the pharmaceutical industry have.

403
00:23:18,653 --> 00:23:21,213
Speaker 3: Honed that to like an assassin level.

404
00:23:21,773 --> 00:23:26,133
Speaker 4: And the other thing is pharma has more control than

405
00:23:26,173 --> 00:23:30,053
Speaker 4: tobacco because farmer is one of the biggest advertisers in

406
00:23:30,093 --> 00:23:34,973
Speaker 4: the world, particularly in the United States's televisions, you know,

407
00:23:35,093 --> 00:23:37,893
Speaker 4: not New Zealand, as I understand, but here it is.

408
00:23:38,573 --> 00:23:42,773
Speaker 2: But said in the list of expenders.

409
00:23:42,733 --> 00:23:46,613
Speaker 4: Oh for sure, and in lobbying and congress, farmers number one.

410
00:23:46,973 --> 00:23:49,573
Speaker 4: It's two to three times the coal and gas budget,

411
00:23:50,733 --> 00:23:54,573
Speaker 4: as I've understood, the number one advertiser in American media,

412
00:23:54,973 --> 00:23:58,933
Speaker 4: and so they literally control all of the information sources.

413
00:23:59,093 --> 00:24:03,693
Speaker 4: And so when people listen to media and television newspapers

414
00:24:03,733 --> 00:24:07,853
Speaker 4: for like health guidance, you're not going to hear any

415
00:24:08,013 --> 00:24:11,253
Speaker 4: cent opinions. Then what's in the interest of the pharmaceutal

416
00:24:11,253 --> 00:24:13,493
Speaker 4: industry and why people don't understand that to this day,

417
00:24:14,933 --> 00:24:18,253
Speaker 4: I just I can't figure that out. Why people have

418
00:24:18,413 --> 00:24:19,333
Speaker 4: not figured that out?

419
00:24:20,693 --> 00:24:26,013
Speaker 2: Well, on a much smaller scale, it's it's not non existent,

420
00:24:26,373 --> 00:24:28,773
Speaker 2: if I might put it that way, not non existent

421
00:24:28,933 --> 00:24:34,133
Speaker 2: in this country. Uh, it's it's much smaller. But I

422
00:24:34,173 --> 00:24:37,213
Speaker 2: know that that has happened, so I know of somebody

423
00:24:37,293 --> 00:24:43,533
Speaker 2: who was affected by it. Yeah, and advertising is what

424
00:24:43,653 --> 00:24:45,493
Speaker 2: keeps is what keeps the media going.

425
00:24:46,293 --> 00:24:49,733
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure here it's I think it's the scale

426
00:24:49,733 --> 00:24:53,453
Speaker 4: of their influence and powers is many magnitudes over what

427
00:24:53,533 --> 00:24:54,813
Speaker 4: it must be like in New Zealand.

428
00:24:54,853 --> 00:24:56,253
Speaker 3: But but the.

429
00:24:56,213 --> 00:24:59,173
Speaker 4: Thing is they don't necessarily just need to control the media.

430
00:24:59,173 --> 00:25:01,453
Speaker 4: And this is where now going from old pier to

431
00:25:01,533 --> 00:25:06,413
Speaker 4: new peer, it's not just the media, it's the journals.

432
00:25:06,493 --> 00:25:08,533
Speaker 3: It's the medical journalis themselves.

433
00:25:08,573 --> 00:25:11,453
Speaker 4: And I think the foundation for all of the fraud

434
00:25:11,493 --> 00:25:16,733
Speaker 4: in COVID, especially against early repurpose drugs like hydroxychlorquin and ivermactin,

435
00:25:17,533 --> 00:25:21,733
Speaker 4: it begins at the level of the high impact medical journals.

436
00:25:22,293 --> 00:25:26,893
Speaker 4: They're the ones that allowed the publication of manipulated, fraudulent

437
00:25:26,973 --> 00:25:31,413
Speaker 4: trials attacking those drugs. Once you have those journals, those

438
00:25:31,653 --> 00:25:35,493
Speaker 4: manuscripts published in those major journals, that's the foundation for

439
00:25:35,613 --> 00:25:37,653
Speaker 4: everything else that happens because you don't need the media

440
00:25:37,653 --> 00:25:41,413
Speaker 4: at that point. Now that supports the health agencies. So

441
00:25:41,453 --> 00:25:44,173
Speaker 4: the health agency, Look, we're looking at the best science,

442
00:25:44,173 --> 00:25:46,733
Speaker 4: the British Medical Journal, you know, the New England Journal

443
00:25:46,773 --> 00:25:49,173
Speaker 4: of Medicine, the Journal of the American Medical Association. They

444
00:25:49,213 --> 00:25:53,333
Speaker 4: say hydroxychlorcon doesn't work iromactin doesn't work, and so I

445
00:25:53,413 --> 00:25:58,093
Speaker 4: was watching this global fraud with millions dying because they

446
00:25:58,093 --> 00:26:01,253
Speaker 4: weren't having access to early treatment drugs. And so when

447
00:26:01,293 --> 00:26:03,213
Speaker 4: you ask me first how that felt when I read

448
00:26:03,213 --> 00:26:07,693
Speaker 4: the disinformation playbook as I after I learned Decision, and

449
00:26:07,733 --> 00:26:11,293
Speaker 4: it started to say, see what the consequences of this

450
00:26:11,493 --> 00:26:18,133
Speaker 4: massive disinformation was and how much destruction they achieved, and

451
00:26:18,173 --> 00:26:24,213
Speaker 4: the humanitarian catastrophe that unfolded, which is needless deaths worldwide.

452
00:26:24,333 --> 00:26:26,773
Speaker 4: And then I'm gonna have to bring in another difficult topic.

453
00:26:27,053 --> 00:26:32,453
Speaker 4: That same disinformation campaign against early treatment DOUGS was employed

454
00:26:32,653 --> 00:26:36,693
Speaker 4: to prop up the most toxic and lethal intervention in

455
00:26:36,733 --> 00:26:39,973
Speaker 4: the history of medicine, which is these mRNA vaccines. I

456
00:26:39,973 --> 00:26:42,053
Speaker 4: don't want to detract from the ironmatin thing, but I

457
00:26:42,093 --> 00:26:45,133
Speaker 4: have to tell you I watched that same campaign prop

458
00:26:45,213 --> 00:26:48,053
Speaker 4: up the vaccines, and so it was like a double whammy.

459
00:26:48,333 --> 00:26:51,733
Speaker 4: And all I want to say laden is COVID would

460
00:26:51,773 --> 00:26:55,893
Speaker 4: have been over early on, or it would not have

461
00:26:55,973 --> 00:27:00,373
Speaker 4: been this major worldwide catastrophe that it was had science

462
00:27:00,453 --> 00:27:07,293
Speaker 4: not been so controlled, corrupted and manipulated to make billions

463
00:27:07,293 --> 00:27:10,133
Speaker 4: of dollars. I mean, look at the billions they made

464
00:27:10,173 --> 00:27:13,093
Speaker 4: off of vaccines rem deciny or I don't know if

465
00:27:13,133 --> 00:27:14,573
Speaker 4: they use um descritate in New Zealand.

466
00:27:14,653 --> 00:27:15,173
Speaker 2: Most of the world.

467
00:27:16,013 --> 00:27:19,213
Speaker 3: They did here they did even.

468
00:27:18,973 --> 00:27:21,973
Speaker 4: Despite the WHO saying it didn't work, which was really

469
00:27:22,013 --> 00:27:26,053
Speaker 4: bizarre to me. Like it's infused into every COVID patient's

470
00:27:26,173 --> 00:27:29,173
Speaker 4: arm in the United States and it's a worthless drug.

471
00:27:29,533 --> 00:27:32,573
Speaker 4: It has no logical sense for working. The data of

472
00:27:32,613 --> 00:27:36,533
Speaker 4: the shows that it works is manipulated, and so like

473
00:27:36,733 --> 00:27:40,893
Speaker 4: I basically Layton, I base, you know, from from the

474
00:27:40,933 --> 00:27:44,133
Speaker 4: comfortable world that I thought we I thought we were

475
00:27:44,253 --> 00:27:48,093
Speaker 4: organized and respected and followed certain rules and medical ethics,

476
00:27:48,133 --> 00:27:50,213
Speaker 4: and it was somewhat of an orderly world that I

477
00:27:50,253 --> 00:27:53,293
Speaker 4: thought I lived in, obviously with evil and violence and

478
00:27:53,333 --> 00:27:56,893
Speaker 4: all those things, but I thought the institutions were marshaled

479
00:27:56,933 --> 00:28:00,813
Speaker 4: against that to it to you know, a few years

480
00:28:00,853 --> 00:28:03,413
Speaker 4: into COVID, I realized I lived in a dystopian world

481
00:28:03,453 --> 00:28:05,773
Speaker 4: where the institutions on their face look.

482
00:28:05,733 --> 00:28:07,293
Speaker 3: Like they're doing the right thing.

483
00:28:07,973 --> 00:28:13,493
Speaker 4: Behind the scenes, they were basically creating actions and policies

484
00:28:13,533 --> 00:28:18,973
Speaker 4: that were directly harmful to not only my countries citizenry,

485
00:28:19,013 --> 00:28:21,213
Speaker 4: but countries around the world. And I would say the

486
00:28:21,253 --> 00:28:23,413
Speaker 4: Western and most media saturated in advance.

487
00:28:23,493 --> 00:28:24,733
Speaker 3: Like the advanced health economies of the.

488
00:28:24,733 --> 00:28:29,893
Speaker 4: World, they did the worst, They were the most manipulated

489
00:28:29,493 --> 00:28:34,573
Speaker 4: and also the most profitable. And so it basically I

490
00:28:34,893 --> 00:28:36,533
Speaker 4: realized I lived in a different world than I thought

491
00:28:36,533 --> 00:28:36,973
Speaker 4: I lived in.

492
00:28:37,733 --> 00:28:40,093
Speaker 2: Now would be a good time, I think, to introduce

493
00:28:40,213 --> 00:28:45,053
Speaker 2: the who was well ever white and and and came

494
00:28:45,133 --> 00:28:46,333
Speaker 2: into your.

495
00:28:47,573 --> 00:28:48,133
Speaker 3: Hospital.

496
00:28:49,013 --> 00:28:54,333
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you took care of him. Yeah, just tell

497
00:28:54,373 --> 00:28:55,013
Speaker 2: us the detail.

498
00:28:56,093 --> 00:28:58,693
Speaker 4: Now, are you referring to the patient who I discovered

499
00:28:58,853 --> 00:29:00,013
Speaker 4: was fully vaccinated?

500
00:29:01,853 --> 00:29:03,893
Speaker 2: This was a guy who was I can't remember that.

501
00:29:04,573 --> 00:29:07,493
Speaker 2: This is the guy who was was whyever white? He

502
00:29:07,613 --> 00:29:10,053
Speaker 2: was a tourist.

503
00:29:11,333 --> 00:29:14,133
Speaker 4: Oh so that was around ivermactin. That's so that wasn't

504
00:29:14,213 --> 00:29:16,613
Speaker 4: my page. I'm not sure, because there's there's a couple

505
00:29:16,613 --> 00:29:19,693
Speaker 4: of instances of portions that I used to begin some

506
00:29:19,813 --> 00:29:20,653
Speaker 4: topics in my book.

507
00:29:20,653 --> 00:29:25,373
Speaker 3: But it may have been because.

508
00:29:25,573 --> 00:29:28,133
Speaker 2: Because I'm I'm pretty sure now that he actually mentioned

509
00:29:28,453 --> 00:29:30,213
Speaker 2: in our discussion.

510
00:29:30,973 --> 00:29:32,413
Speaker 3: But this is around ivermactin.

511
00:29:32,653 --> 00:29:36,573
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, So so the instance that I use is

512
00:29:36,613 --> 00:29:41,333
Speaker 4: that in my research on ivermactin, not only did we

513
00:29:41,333 --> 00:29:43,813
Speaker 4: start seeing all these trials, but I realized that the

514
00:29:43,933 --> 00:29:49,733
Speaker 4: first paper that showed the incredible evidence of kfcy of

515
00:29:49,773 --> 00:29:53,973
Speaker 4: ivermactin was actually a case series from the Dominican Republic

516
00:29:54,373 --> 00:29:57,173
Speaker 4: which was posted on a preprint server in June of

517
00:29:57,253 --> 00:29:59,693
Speaker 4: twenty twenty. That that goes back to the statement I

518
00:29:59,733 --> 00:30:01,813
Speaker 4: just made you late, and is that COVID would have

519
00:30:01,933 --> 00:30:06,853
Speaker 4: never been an issue if we were like objective, reasonable, pragmatic,

520
00:30:07,133 --> 00:30:10,373
Speaker 4: and looking at all evidence equally. But what happened in

521
00:30:10,413 --> 00:30:13,293
Speaker 4: the Dominican Republic is in March of twenty twenty. Remember

522
00:30:13,413 --> 00:30:16,213
Speaker 4: March of twenty twenty. This is when Coe was just beginning.

523
00:30:16,853 --> 00:30:19,813
Speaker 4: There's this really, So what happened is the lead author

524
00:30:19,853 --> 00:30:24,013
Speaker 4: of that case series, which had immense difficulty getting published,

525
00:30:24,413 --> 00:30:26,213
Speaker 4: which is another thing I don't want to go backwards

526
00:30:26,213 --> 00:30:30,693
Speaker 4: into corruption. But not only were the journals publishing manipulated

527
00:30:30,773 --> 00:30:37,413
Speaker 4: trials with pre determined results, they were rejecting and retracting

528
00:30:37,893 --> 00:30:42,933
Speaker 4: any science which advanced or support of alternative cheap therapies.

529
00:30:43,533 --> 00:30:47,013
Speaker 4: And so the first time they posted their paper was

530
00:30:47,053 --> 00:30:48,573
Speaker 4: in June of twenty twenty. I think it took him

531
00:30:48,613 --> 00:30:51,213
Speaker 4: a year to publish it in like some tertiary journal.

532
00:30:51,893 --> 00:30:54,413
Speaker 4: But I ended up becoming in contact with the lead

533
00:30:54,493 --> 00:30:57,693
Speaker 4: author and I even when I was in Dominican Republic.

534
00:30:57,773 --> 00:30:59,613
Speaker 3: Is that's a place that I would go to vacation.

535
00:31:00,133 --> 00:31:02,733
Speaker 4: I got to meet up with him and we had

536
00:31:02,813 --> 00:31:06,413
Speaker 4: drinks one night, and he told me the origin story

537
00:31:06,453 --> 00:31:08,933
Speaker 4: of his discovery of ivermactin and and that was in

538
00:31:08,973 --> 00:31:12,853
Speaker 4: March of twenty twenty. He said that he owned a

539
00:31:12,973 --> 00:31:15,133
Speaker 4: series of clinics in the Miniical Republic, and he got

540
00:31:15,173 --> 00:31:17,093
Speaker 4: a call one night from a doctor who was on

541
00:31:17,653 --> 00:31:21,173
Speaker 4: call and had just admitted some overweight I think it

542
00:31:21,173 --> 00:31:24,333
Speaker 4: was an American tourist who was hypoxic on oxygen, not

543
00:31:24,453 --> 00:31:25,053
Speaker 4: looking good.

544
00:31:26,293 --> 00:31:29,493
Speaker 3: Was that the story? Yeah, but this is like the

545
00:31:29,533 --> 00:31:30,373
Speaker 3: origin story.

546
00:31:30,373 --> 00:31:33,853
Speaker 4: And so he, you know, the doctor calls and says, hey,

547
00:31:33,893 --> 00:31:35,533
Speaker 4: you know, this guy's looking really bad.

548
00:31:35,933 --> 00:31:37,173
Speaker 3: He's like, what do you think we should do?

549
00:31:37,333 --> 00:31:40,773
Speaker 4: And the doctor apparently had researched or known about ivermactin

550
00:31:40,813 --> 00:31:44,093
Speaker 4: as an anti viral, and so he asked his essential

551
00:31:44,173 --> 00:31:48,453
Speaker 4: boss for permission to treat the guy with ivermactin. And

552
00:31:48,733 --> 00:31:51,613
Speaker 4: so doctor Radondo, who is my colleague who I was

553
00:31:51,613 --> 00:31:54,733
Speaker 4: talking to at this time. Doctor Dondo, in his account,

554
00:31:54,773 --> 00:31:57,093
Speaker 4: he said, you know what, I convened our committee, you know,

555
00:31:57,173 --> 00:31:59,413
Speaker 4: because they had you know, his clinics had formed like

556
00:31:59,413 --> 00:32:00,613
Speaker 4: a therapeutic committee.

557
00:32:00,733 --> 00:32:01,053
Speaker 3: He said.

558
00:32:01,093 --> 00:32:04,613
Speaker 4: I consulted them and we discussed the case and we

559
00:32:05,373 --> 00:32:08,773
Speaker 4: understood the gravity of this patient. And I called the

560
00:32:08,853 --> 00:32:11,933
Speaker 4: doctor back, who was on call, and I said, you

561
00:32:12,013 --> 00:32:14,853
Speaker 4: have we're giving you permission to treat him with ivermectin,

562
00:32:14,973 --> 00:32:17,813
Speaker 4: and the doctor replied, thanks, I gave it to him

563
00:32:17,813 --> 00:32:23,173
Speaker 4: an hour ago, which I always loved, so the doctor vision.

564
00:32:23,213 --> 00:32:27,093
Speaker 4: But the point of that story was the guy rapidly

565
00:32:27,173 --> 00:32:30,413
Speaker 4: improved overnight and I think he got discharged the next

566
00:32:30,493 --> 00:32:31,733
Speaker 4: day off oxygen.

567
00:32:31,773 --> 00:32:33,973
Speaker 3: So it was like this dramatic response.

568
00:32:34,733 --> 00:32:38,293
Speaker 4: And so after that first patient, they quickly developed a protocol.

569
00:32:38,333 --> 00:32:41,293
Speaker 4: They treated everyone in their urgent cares and emergency rooms

570
00:32:41,333 --> 00:32:43,853
Speaker 4: with avermactin. They did this for months, and then in

571
00:32:43,933 --> 00:32:48,013
Speaker 4: June twenty twenty, they reported on thirty three hundred patients

572
00:32:48,933 --> 00:32:53,213
Speaker 4: treated with ivermactin on arrival to any of their facilities,

573
00:32:53,893 --> 00:32:57,253
Speaker 4: and out of the thirty three hundred patients, they had

574
00:32:57,373 --> 00:33:03,253
Speaker 4: sixteen hospitalizations and two deaths. Two deaths out of thirty

575
00:33:03,253 --> 00:33:06,973
Speaker 4: three hundred patients arriving at an urgency, urgent cares and

576
00:33:07,013 --> 00:33:12,693
Speaker 4: emergency rooms, which is a dramatic result. And anyway, that's

577
00:33:12,733 --> 00:33:15,613
Speaker 4: where that anecdote came from. But the point of that

578
00:33:15,653 --> 00:33:18,453
Speaker 4: story is, like that paper showed up on a preprint

579
00:33:18,453 --> 00:33:21,253
Speaker 4: server of June to twenty twenty. There's no advanced health

580
00:33:21,253 --> 00:33:24,613
Speaker 4: economy in the world that was monitoring preprints looking for

581
00:33:24,773 --> 00:33:28,053
Speaker 4: data that possibly showed early evidence of the efficacy.

582
00:33:28,173 --> 00:33:28,813
Speaker 3: So even if they.

583
00:33:28,773 --> 00:33:31,733
Speaker 4: Were interested, they could have done an immediate trial, whatever

584
00:33:31,773 --> 00:33:34,773
Speaker 4: evidence based medicine standards they wanted to do, they could

585
00:33:34,773 --> 00:33:36,613
Speaker 4: have done that, but there was no efforts of doing that.

586
00:33:36,653 --> 00:33:41,413
Speaker 4: There's no efforts at looking at available repurpose drugs. Everything

587
00:33:41,493 --> 00:33:46,933
Speaker 4: was about testing pricey patented pharmaceuticals, and so I knew

588
00:33:46,973 --> 00:33:49,573
Speaker 4: the whole gig was up. I mean, eventually I figured

589
00:33:49,573 --> 00:33:53,013
Speaker 4: it out, like repurpose drugs are the Achilles heel.

590
00:33:53,213 --> 00:33:54,893
Speaker 3: And you know what I mean my repurpose right, it's

591
00:33:54,933 --> 00:33:56,653
Speaker 3: off patent drugs.

592
00:33:56,693 --> 00:33:58,693
Speaker 4: Or drugs that have been improved for one indication that

593
00:33:58,733 --> 00:34:02,133
Speaker 4: you find out that's really effective in another. Whereas pharma

594
00:34:02,173 --> 00:34:04,573
Speaker 4: doesn't like that. With every disease, they want to come

595
00:34:04,653 --> 00:34:08,253
Speaker 4: up with new stuff that's on patent that is immensely profitable,

596
00:34:08,413 --> 00:34:12,173
Speaker 4: so they do not like off patent repurpose drugs being

597
00:34:12,253 --> 00:34:14,693
Speaker 4: used to treat anything because there's no money in it,

598
00:34:14,853 --> 00:34:18,093
Speaker 4: which is actually false. There is money it. You could

599
00:34:18,133 --> 00:34:23,373
Speaker 4: make a profit, you just can't make absurd, obscene profits

600
00:34:23,493 --> 00:34:26,133
Speaker 4: that that industry is used to. That industry is a

601
00:34:26,133 --> 00:34:28,933
Speaker 4: criminal syndicate. That's also the other thing I've learned in

602
00:34:28,973 --> 00:34:31,813
Speaker 4: these five years is I've studied the pharmacut industry. I've

603
00:34:31,853 --> 00:34:35,813
Speaker 4: looked at their history of criminal finds, civil finds. They

604
00:34:35,933 --> 00:34:40,813
Speaker 4: operate with impunity. They are constantly being sued and found

605
00:34:40,853 --> 00:34:44,533
Speaker 4: guilty for the most nefarious actions in the world, And

606
00:34:44,653 --> 00:34:47,373
Speaker 4: yet again people seem unaware of that.

607
00:34:49,813 --> 00:34:51,013
Speaker 2: Is it that they didn't want to know?

608
00:34:52,533 --> 00:34:52,853
Speaker 3: Is it?

609
00:34:52,893 --> 00:34:54,773
Speaker 2: Is it that that I want to believe that I

610
00:34:54,813 --> 00:34:58,173
Speaker 2: want to that I want to steer themselves off course.

611
00:34:59,173 --> 00:35:03,213
Speaker 4: No, No, it's much cruder and coarser and simpler than that,

612
00:35:03,253 --> 00:35:04,733
Speaker 4: And that's much more base than that.

613
00:35:05,693 --> 00:35:09,013
Speaker 3: They know, They lootly know.

614
00:35:10,013 --> 00:35:13,173
Speaker 4: They are an industry that works for their shareholders, not

615
00:35:13,253 --> 00:35:16,893
Speaker 4: for their patients. They see this as a business marketplace.

616
00:35:17,133 --> 00:35:21,773
Speaker 4: They see competitive threats and they destroy them. Ivery Mactin

617
00:35:22,293 --> 00:35:25,533
Speaker 4: was a competitor to all of their products, and it

618
00:35:25,613 --> 00:35:28,733
Speaker 4: got destroyed, and they used all the powers that they

619
00:35:28,973 --> 00:35:34,733
Speaker 4: could marshal hydroxychloroquin same and there's also a lot of others,

620
00:35:34,773 --> 00:35:36,573
Speaker 4: but those were the two most prominent, and those are

621
00:35:36,573 --> 00:35:39,453
Speaker 4: the two that they most deployed their resources and attacking.

622
00:35:41,013 --> 00:35:42,693
Speaker 2: What's the I'm trying to think of the name of

623
00:35:42,773 --> 00:35:47,573
Speaker 2: the of the surgeon in Newcastle Hospital in Australia, who's

624
00:35:47,693 --> 00:35:52,093
Speaker 2: who's been backling this. There are medicos in this part

625
00:35:52,133 --> 00:35:55,773
Speaker 2: of the world, Australasia who have who have made stands.

626
00:35:56,533 --> 00:35:59,653
Speaker 2: And another one I interviewed right at the very beginning

627
00:35:59,693 --> 00:36:05,293
Speaker 2: of all this, and he was so onto it, so well,

628
00:36:05,453 --> 00:36:08,613
Speaker 2: not just convincing, but he was so backed up by

629
00:36:09,693 --> 00:36:14,253
Speaker 2: what he knew and how he knew it that I

630
00:36:14,333 --> 00:36:19,973
Speaker 2: undertook an attempt to introduce him to some well shure

631
00:36:19,973 --> 00:36:24,573
Speaker 2: we say political people here. Nobody wanted to know. No,

632
00:36:24,733 --> 00:36:28,533
Speaker 2: not interested, not interested now But when you but when

633
00:36:28,573 --> 00:36:32,133
Speaker 2: you when you understand, of course, the nature of the

634
00:36:32,133 --> 00:36:34,573
Speaker 2: people who were running the country at that time, starting

635
00:36:34,573 --> 00:36:37,653
Speaker 2: with the top of the beehive, which is where the

636
00:36:37,693 --> 00:36:42,693
Speaker 2: government is the queen bee. If you want, you understand

637
00:36:42,813 --> 00:36:44,093
Speaker 2: why they didn't want to know.

638
00:36:45,533 --> 00:36:49,373
Speaker 4: They all obey and this might be trite, might be

639
00:36:49,413 --> 00:36:50,693
Speaker 4: a little bit too explosive, but.

640
00:36:51,693 --> 00:36:52,453
Speaker 3: They all obey.

641
00:36:52,493 --> 00:36:55,013
Speaker 4: What I discover is that you know, well, I always

642
00:36:55,133 --> 00:36:59,933
Speaker 4: knew that humans, we are creatures of incentives. We all

643
00:36:59,973 --> 00:37:03,253
Speaker 4: respond to incentives, whether they be positive or negative.

644
00:37:03,933 --> 00:37:06,413
Speaker 3: And what I can to find out is that everyone

645
00:37:06,493 --> 00:37:08,133
Speaker 3: seems to work for their masters.

646
00:37:08,133 --> 00:37:10,773
Speaker 4: Because the one central thing that I took away, which

647
00:37:10,813 --> 00:37:13,373
Speaker 4: is the most disappointing with what I learned about humanity

648
00:37:13,413 --> 00:37:20,933
Speaker 4: and COVID, is that the desire to remain employed is paramount.

649
00:37:21,293 --> 00:37:25,173
Speaker 4: People will not blow up their careers over ethical or

650
00:37:25,213 --> 00:37:27,933
Speaker 4: moral objections even though they know harm.

651
00:37:27,733 --> 00:37:28,653
Speaker 3: Is being caused.

652
00:37:28,813 --> 00:37:34,213
Speaker 4: You did they protect themselves. Well, here's the difference. I

653
00:37:34,253 --> 00:37:37,533
Speaker 4: don't want to call myself a hero because really i'll

654
00:37:37,933 --> 00:37:40,573
Speaker 4: I'll do that for you. No, No, because I don't

655
00:37:40,613 --> 00:37:45,453
Speaker 4: think it's correct. I was just early, so I was naive.

656
00:37:46,213 --> 00:37:49,013
Speaker 4: If I knew what would befall me, I'd like to

657
00:37:49,093 --> 00:37:51,893
Speaker 4: tell you I would have done the same thing. But

658
00:37:52,213 --> 00:37:54,533
Speaker 4: it's different for doctors who came after me, because they

659
00:37:54,573 --> 00:37:58,293
Speaker 4: saw what happened to me, and so they'd have to

660
00:37:58,893 --> 00:38:03,533
Speaker 4: really willingly commit career suicide. Which is when I did

661
00:38:03,533 --> 00:38:05,773
Speaker 4: what I was doing, I didn't think I would get

662
00:38:06,293 --> 00:38:11,533
Speaker 4: career honors or you know, awards, But I didn't think

663
00:38:11,573 --> 00:38:13,013
Speaker 4: what was going to happen to my life was going

664
00:38:13,093 --> 00:38:16,613
Speaker 4: to happen. So I went in with naivete, not heroism.

665
00:38:17,453 --> 00:38:21,053
Speaker 4: That's just my honest assessment. But even when after though,

666
00:38:21,093 --> 00:38:23,613
Speaker 4: I will, I'll give myself credit for this, even when

667
00:38:23,613 --> 00:38:26,973
Speaker 4: my life started going sideways because of that, and which

668
00:38:26,973 --> 00:38:29,693
Speaker 4: shocked me, because I'd always been celebrated in my field.

669
00:38:29,813 --> 00:38:32,453
Speaker 3: By the way, I was very well. Hopefully this doesn't

670
00:38:32,493 --> 00:38:33,213
Speaker 3: come across.

671
00:38:32,933 --> 00:38:35,813
Speaker 4: Egotistico, but I was a very prominent physician in my

672
00:38:35,813 --> 00:38:38,253
Speaker 4: own right. In my specialty, I was known as a

673
00:38:38,253 --> 00:38:41,693
Speaker 4: global pioneer for a sub especially called critical care alcure snography.

674
00:38:41,733 --> 00:38:44,453
Speaker 4: I'd written a textbook that was published in seven languages.

675
00:38:44,733 --> 00:38:47,493
Speaker 4: I traveled the country and world teaching my specialty.

676
00:38:47,773 --> 00:38:49,613
Speaker 2: By the way, don't get.

677
00:38:49,533 --> 00:38:52,213
Speaker 4: That, Yeah, No, I was like really well known and

678
00:38:52,253 --> 00:38:54,933
Speaker 4: well published, and you know, I'd been recruited by a

679
00:38:54,973 --> 00:38:57,933
Speaker 4: top research university. I was like their head clinician and

680
00:38:57,973 --> 00:39:00,933
Speaker 4: critical care I was a major clinical leader in that institution.

681
00:39:01,133 --> 00:39:02,893
Speaker 3: So you know, the fall from.

682
00:39:02,693 --> 00:39:07,373
Speaker 4: Grace was was pretty far and fast. But even as

683
00:39:07,413 --> 00:39:11,413
Speaker 4: that fall began to happen, I wasn't going to change tactics.

684
00:39:11,573 --> 00:39:13,653
Speaker 4: I was like, oh, you want to do this, I'm

685
00:39:13,653 --> 00:39:15,733
Speaker 4: coming right back at you. And I thought, however, I

686
00:39:15,773 --> 00:39:17,133
Speaker 4: could I had my nonprofit.

687
00:39:17,573 --> 00:39:20,133
Speaker 3: I just kept putting out truths, putting out.

688
00:39:20,133 --> 00:39:22,253
Speaker 4: What I've always done, which is teaching what I know,

689
00:39:23,213 --> 00:39:26,893
Speaker 4: researching what I don't know, and then disseminating that. And

690
00:39:26,933 --> 00:39:29,893
Speaker 4: the more I did that, the more stuff happened to me.

691
00:39:30,413 --> 00:39:33,293
Speaker 4: And look, Layton, you were just mentioning a prominent doctor.

692
00:39:33,333 --> 00:39:36,213
Speaker 4: I guess that prominent doctor was also trying to speak truth.

693
00:39:36,293 --> 00:39:37,453
Speaker 4: Did they get punished?

694
00:39:38,053 --> 00:39:43,373
Speaker 2: To be honest, I can't answer that. He is still

695
00:39:43,573 --> 00:39:46,013
Speaker 2: in his position, okay.

696
00:39:45,893 --> 00:39:48,453
Speaker 4: But if he was advocating for things that went that

697
00:39:48,613 --> 00:39:51,453
Speaker 4: was dissenting with what this and I'm using air quotes here.

698
00:39:51,533 --> 00:39:53,813
Speaker 3: Consensus. That was the other thing.

699
00:39:53,813 --> 00:39:57,573
Speaker 4: I realized that scientific consensus, whether it be in medicine

700
00:39:57,813 --> 00:40:02,493
Speaker 4: or in climate or anything, is a manufactured consensus. You

701
00:40:02,533 --> 00:40:08,013
Speaker 4: cannot reach consensus without deep influence of economic interests, because

702
00:40:08,053 --> 00:40:10,253
Speaker 4: if you if you come up with a consensus that

703
00:40:10,373 --> 00:40:15,453
Speaker 4: is scientifically inconvenient to the prevailing economic interest, they will

704
00:40:15,493 --> 00:40:19,973
Speaker 4: make sure that doesn't happen. And so now I'm talking

705
00:40:19,973 --> 00:40:22,493
Speaker 4: a little bit outside of medicine, but certainly in medicine.

706
00:40:22,613 --> 00:40:25,453
Speaker 4: I realized that the guidelines that I'd followed for treatment

707
00:40:25,453 --> 00:40:29,133
Speaker 4: of diseases, for everything in medicine is that they're largely

708
00:40:29,133 --> 00:40:30,533
Speaker 4: controlled and manufactured.

709
00:40:30,573 --> 00:40:31,453
Speaker 3: And so.

710
00:40:33,213 --> 00:40:35,933
Speaker 4: Maybe demoralization is a strong word, maybe it's not, But

711
00:40:36,213 --> 00:40:39,973
Speaker 4: I will say this, I'm I'm a physician, a strained

712
00:40:40,733 --> 00:40:47,373
Speaker 4: estranged from allopathic medicine. I will say I got excommunicated. Luckily,

713
00:40:47,413 --> 00:40:50,493
Speaker 4: I'm still in practice. I'm in private practice. I'm a

714
00:40:50,653 --> 00:40:54,253
Speaker 4: fee based I don't take insurance. The sadness of that

715
00:40:54,533 --> 00:40:56,733
Speaker 4: is not everyone can see me or afford to see me.

716
00:40:57,333 --> 00:40:59,493
Speaker 4: But the beauty in that is I get to practice

717
00:40:59,533 --> 00:41:02,853
Speaker 4: medicine as I see fit. I can do whatever I want,

718
00:41:02,893 --> 00:41:05,293
Speaker 4: I can employ different therapies, I can try whatever I

719
00:41:05,293 --> 00:41:08,293
Speaker 4: want to help patients. And I've learned so much about

720
00:41:08,573 --> 00:41:11,053
Speaker 4: and I am so free and more inspired as a

721
00:41:11,053 --> 00:41:12,293
Speaker 4: physician than I've ever been.

722
00:41:13,613 --> 00:41:14,733
Speaker 3: And that's just me today.

723
00:41:14,773 --> 00:41:17,253
Speaker 4: And so part of what I just told you is

724
00:41:17,893 --> 00:41:21,333
Speaker 4: that fall from Grace was really turbulent and difficult. I

725
00:41:21,373 --> 00:41:24,093
Speaker 4: lost income sources along the way. I have three children.

726
00:41:24,293 --> 00:41:26,213
Speaker 4: By the way, we pay for college in this country,

727
00:41:26,253 --> 00:41:29,733
Speaker 4: and it's really expensive. I have three daughters that you know,

728
00:41:29,813 --> 00:41:32,613
Speaker 4: like when my income got cut off. I mean it

729
00:41:32,653 --> 00:41:34,093
Speaker 4: was scary. I mean I have a house, I have

730
00:41:34,133 --> 00:41:36,573
Speaker 4: a mortgage, I have all those things. But luckily, in

731
00:41:36,613 --> 00:41:39,533
Speaker 4: my case, I landed on my feet. There's many other

732
00:41:39,613 --> 00:41:42,413
Speaker 4: doctors who didn't have the profile or didn't recover the

733
00:41:42,413 --> 00:41:46,653
Speaker 4: way I did, who've lost their licenses in livelihoods for

734
00:41:46,733 --> 00:41:49,693
Speaker 4: doing things as simple as treating people with ivermactin based

735
00:41:49,693 --> 00:41:53,133
Speaker 4: on the science and the rationale for it. And let

736
00:41:53,173 --> 00:41:55,573
Speaker 4: me just go back to the Disinformation Playbook and those

737
00:41:55,613 --> 00:42:00,773
Speaker 4: five football plays. There's a football play called the blitz.

738
00:42:00,973 --> 00:42:01,653
Speaker 4: That's when the.

739
00:42:01,573 --> 00:42:03,293
Speaker 3: Attackers go after the quarterback.

740
00:42:04,733 --> 00:42:08,093
Speaker 4: The blitz in the Disinformation Playbook is when they go

741
00:42:08,133 --> 00:42:14,213
Speaker 4: after researchers who are producing the science that's inconvenience. And

742
00:42:14,253 --> 00:42:16,933
Speaker 4: that's why when I read that article that day, I

743
00:42:17,053 --> 00:42:18,933
Speaker 4: realized that I'd been blitzed.

744
00:42:19,093 --> 00:42:20,493
Speaker 3: Paul Marrick had been blitzed.

745
00:42:20,893 --> 00:42:24,213
Speaker 4: And there's like decades of evidence of various scientists. When

746
00:42:24,213 --> 00:42:27,573
Speaker 4: you come out with a contrarian opinion, you get blitzed.

747
00:42:28,293 --> 00:42:31,533
Speaker 4: And I saw doctors all over the world, Canada, US,

748
00:42:31,613 --> 00:42:34,133
Speaker 4: every and by the way, I have devoted immense amounts

749
00:42:34,173 --> 00:42:37,333
Speaker 4: of time to defending them in their core cases in

750
00:42:37,373 --> 00:42:40,053
Speaker 4: their hearings with medical boards where they're trying to get

751
00:42:40,053 --> 00:42:43,573
Speaker 4: their licenses, trying to argue for them, showing that the

752
00:42:43,653 --> 00:42:46,133
Speaker 4: science supported everything they did.

753
00:42:46,973 --> 00:42:50,013
Speaker 3: I will tell you it doesn't work. That's the other thing.

754
00:42:50,053 --> 00:42:53,493
Speaker 4: They weaponized not only the media, the journals, the agencies,

755
00:42:53,933 --> 00:42:57,213
Speaker 4: but also the medical boards and so doctors with contrarian

756
00:42:57,213 --> 00:43:01,013
Speaker 4: and prisonances, no matter how scientifically based it is, they

757
00:43:01,053 --> 00:43:02,133
Speaker 4: will go after you.

758
00:43:02,893 --> 00:43:04,773
Speaker 3: Keep in line or you're gone.

759
00:43:05,373 --> 00:43:07,893
Speaker 4: And that's the sadness because the persecution of me and

760
00:43:07,933 --> 00:43:10,573
Speaker 4: my cop and what happened to our careers.

761
00:43:10,893 --> 00:43:13,093
Speaker 3: I don't think it was meant to personally punish us.

762
00:43:13,213 --> 00:43:15,893
Speaker 4: It was to make us an example because we were

763
00:43:15,933 --> 00:43:19,653
Speaker 4: the most public and they wanted to take us down.

764
00:43:19,773 --> 00:43:21,693
Speaker 4: And I think that's to send the message to any

765
00:43:21,733 --> 00:43:23,693
Speaker 4: other doctor who wants to step out of line. And

766
00:43:23,773 --> 00:43:27,613
Speaker 4: it worked, and it works. Yeah, you have compliant doctors

767
00:43:27,613 --> 00:43:28,453
Speaker 4: all over the world.

768
00:43:28,693 --> 00:43:31,013
Speaker 2: Now. Now it would be a good time to just

769
00:43:31,133 --> 00:43:31,893
Speaker 2: change gears.

770
00:43:32,653 --> 00:43:32,933
Speaker 3: Sure.

771
00:43:33,573 --> 00:43:36,453
Speaker 2: The story of Andy Hill and the World Health Organization,

772
00:43:36,773 --> 00:43:39,853
Speaker 2: Oh boy. I found this to be because I haven't

773
00:43:39,853 --> 00:43:43,133
Speaker 2: read the entire book, and I've dipped in and out

774
00:43:43,133 --> 00:43:45,933
Speaker 2: of what interested me, and I found this chapter to

775
00:43:46,013 --> 00:43:48,533
Speaker 2: be the most fascinating.

776
00:43:49,813 --> 00:43:50,093
Speaker 3: Yep.

777
00:43:51,053 --> 00:43:53,173
Speaker 2: If you don't, if you don't like that, you don't

778
00:43:53,213 --> 00:43:55,973
Speaker 2: agree with me, then that's only because I haven't really

779
00:43:56,253 --> 00:43:58,293
Speaker 2: read some of the others that might.

780
00:43:58,333 --> 00:44:00,053
Speaker 3: Well, here's the thing, here's the there.

781
00:44:00,093 --> 00:44:02,373
Speaker 4: I'm just going to go back to the Disinformation Playbook, right,

782
00:44:02,373 --> 00:44:05,413
Speaker 4: So it's five plays each and every one of them

783
00:44:05,413 --> 00:44:09,493
Speaker 4: are devastating. And I and and as you probably can tell,

784
00:44:09,573 --> 00:44:13,293
Speaker 4: like my book is thematically structured around that article to

785
00:44:13,293 --> 00:44:16,773
Speaker 4: call the Disinformation Playbook because when I got that email

786
00:44:16,813 --> 00:44:20,533
Speaker 4: that day and I read that article, I realized that's

787
00:44:20,573 --> 00:44:22,893
Speaker 4: what's going on in the world, and I said, I

788
00:44:22,933 --> 00:44:26,413
Speaker 4: committed myself on that day to write a book as

789
00:44:26,453 --> 00:44:31,693
Speaker 4: a case example of how disinformation campaigns are executed in practice.

790
00:44:31,733 --> 00:44:34,173
Speaker 4: I wanted to do like a case study so that

791
00:44:34,213 --> 00:44:36,533
Speaker 4: everyone in the world could read it and that they

792
00:44:36,573 --> 00:44:39,613
Speaker 4: would then be immune to this immense amount of propaganda

793
00:44:39,613 --> 00:44:41,453
Speaker 4: and censorship which creates these things.

794
00:44:41,693 --> 00:44:44,453
Speaker 3: And one of those tactics, right, we talked about the blitz.

795
00:44:45,173 --> 00:44:47,693
Speaker 4: The fake is when they do these predetermined trials, they

796
00:44:47,733 --> 00:44:50,733
Speaker 4: manipulate trials to have a certain result. But Andy Hill

797
00:44:50,813 --> 00:44:54,933
Speaker 4: is the example I used for something called the diversion

798
00:44:55,093 --> 00:45:00,813
Speaker 4: where they co opt officials and Andy Andy Hill was

799
00:45:00,853 --> 00:45:01,533
Speaker 4: that example.

800
00:45:02,373 --> 00:45:05,733
Speaker 3: So any Hill was the lead researcher for the.

801
00:45:05,693 --> 00:45:11,013
Speaker 4: WHO and he he was in charge of a team

802
00:45:11,333 --> 00:45:16,493
Speaker 4: that was supposed to research all repurposed off patent drugs

803
00:45:17,093 --> 00:45:18,973
Speaker 4: that could potentially be used in COVID.

804
00:45:19,573 --> 00:45:21,453
Speaker 3: And when I discovered.

805
00:45:20,773 --> 00:45:25,933
Speaker 4: This a week after my ivermactin testimony the conference organized

806
00:45:25,973 --> 00:45:28,533
Speaker 4: because we both presented the same conference, I said, who's

807
00:45:28,573 --> 00:45:31,613
Speaker 4: this guy researching ivromactin Because he had more data than

808
00:45:31,653 --> 00:45:33,853
Speaker 4: I had, and he had better data than I had,

809
00:45:34,373 --> 00:45:35,933
Speaker 4: and so I reached out to him, and he and

810
00:45:35,973 --> 00:45:37,493
Speaker 4: I quickly became collegial.

811
00:45:37,613 --> 00:45:40,333
Speaker 3: He was a really nice guy. We were both invested.

812
00:45:40,413 --> 00:45:43,413
Speaker 4: We were both really impressed with the data around ivermactin.

813
00:45:43,853 --> 00:45:47,933
Speaker 4: And I remained in contact with him for months and

814
00:45:47,973 --> 00:45:51,813
Speaker 4: he was very supportive. The problem was the more supportive

815
00:45:51,853 --> 00:45:55,093
Speaker 4: he got. He gave a talk in South Africa on

816
00:45:55,213 --> 00:45:58,133
Speaker 4: Zoom one day and he was like basically telling the world,

817
00:45:58,253 --> 00:46:02,693
Speaker 4: get ready, get your supplies of ivermactin together, and you

818
00:46:02,733 --> 00:46:04,733
Speaker 4: know this is going to be the treatment.

819
00:46:04,453 --> 00:46:07,493
Speaker 3: For early COVID. The day he gave that lecture.

820
00:46:07,933 --> 00:46:11,653
Speaker 4: Two days years later, he told me that his sponsors

821
00:46:11,733 --> 00:46:14,533
Speaker 4: at the who told him he's not allowed to speak

822
00:46:14,613 --> 00:46:21,573
Speaker 4: publicly anymore. And after that day, his behaviors started to

823
00:46:21,573 --> 00:46:22,813
Speaker 4: get very strange.

824
00:46:23,413 --> 00:46:25,053
Speaker 3: It was not the same guy I knew.

825
00:46:26,293 --> 00:46:31,853
Speaker 4: He ended up He ended up posting a draft of

826
00:46:31,933 --> 00:46:34,853
Speaker 4: his paper which reviewed all of the trials, and there

827
00:46:34,893 --> 00:46:38,893
Speaker 4: was so much nonsense in it that didn't match the

828
00:46:38,973 --> 00:46:42,013
Speaker 4: discussions we'd had or our own interprets of the data

829
00:46:42,773 --> 00:46:45,453
Speaker 4: that me and Paul we told him, We said, we

830
00:46:45,493 --> 00:46:47,213
Speaker 4: think you're doing scientific his conduct.

831
00:46:47,253 --> 00:46:47,973
Speaker 3: We don't know why.

832
00:46:48,413 --> 00:46:51,613
Speaker 4: We peer reviewed his paper, We suggested the additions that

833
00:46:51,733 --> 00:46:54,813
Speaker 4: he should make to make it more correct. He ignored it.

834
00:46:54,933 --> 00:46:58,173
Speaker 4: He left it up on a preprint server. And then

835
00:46:58,173 --> 00:47:01,653
Speaker 4: he went even further and he just basically he stopped

836
00:47:01,653 --> 00:47:04,253
Speaker 4: sharing data, started doing all these things. And then Tess

837
00:47:04,333 --> 00:47:06,813
Speaker 4: Lowry from the UK, it was another colleague of mine,

838
00:47:07,653 --> 00:47:09,853
Speaker 4: caught him on his zoom and basically attacked him for

839
00:47:09,893 --> 00:47:12,133
Speaker 4: the same thing. What are you doing any Why are

840
00:47:12,173 --> 00:47:14,773
Speaker 4: you writing these things when it doesn't match the data

841
00:47:14,813 --> 00:47:17,453
Speaker 4: that we have, And he basically admitted that he was

842
00:47:17,533 --> 00:47:21,453
Speaker 4: under pressure from his sponsors, and basically so he got

843
00:47:21,453 --> 00:47:24,773
Speaker 4: co opted because he's he's a research who has long

844
00:47:24,853 --> 00:47:28,533
Speaker 4: worked for International Healthcare Agency. His whole livelihood is getting

845
00:47:28,573 --> 00:47:32,893
Speaker 4: grants to do research, and whoever was funding him did

846
00:47:32,973 --> 00:47:35,453
Speaker 4: not like what he was finding, and they wanted him

847
00:47:35,453 --> 00:47:39,733
Speaker 4: to shut up. And that's kind of the main point

848
00:47:39,733 --> 00:47:42,453
Speaker 4: of that that story with any And I stopped talking

849
00:47:42,453 --> 00:47:45,373
Speaker 4: to him because well, he also stopped talking to me

850
00:47:45,373 --> 00:47:46,893
Speaker 4: because I realized he got captured.

851
00:47:47,493 --> 00:47:50,893
Speaker 2: That was one of the aspects of the book. I found.

852
00:47:51,213 --> 00:47:54,013
Speaker 2: You're reading away happily, and all of a sudden your

853
00:47:54,053 --> 00:47:57,533
Speaker 2: attention gets stolen from you by something like this, this

854
00:47:57,693 --> 00:48:04,653
Speaker 2: video that doctor Tess Laurie Yeah, produced, and so I

855
00:48:04,733 --> 00:48:07,573
Speaker 2: went off and found it. It wasn't easy because it

856
00:48:07,613 --> 00:48:10,093
Speaker 2: wasn't where it was used to be, but I dug

857
00:48:10,093 --> 00:48:12,853
Speaker 2: it out and it wasn't that long. I think it

858
00:48:12,933 --> 00:48:19,053
Speaker 2: was twenty minutes maybe, uh. Edit was fascinating watching this

859
00:48:19,213 --> 00:48:24,933
Speaker 2: sella squirm squirm, that's what he was. He was squirmming, squirming.

860
00:48:25,173 --> 00:48:29,253
Speaker 2: He looked so uncomfortable, he looked so uncovering. Although he

861
00:48:29,373 --> 00:48:33,213
Speaker 2: tried to defend himself in words, his body and his

862
00:48:34,133 --> 00:48:38,693
Speaker 2: you know, movements and facial expression did not lie. He

863
00:48:40,093 --> 00:48:44,493
Speaker 2: and Tess was fierce, I mean, test showed who she

864
00:48:44,693 --> 00:48:45,613
Speaker 2: was in that conversation.

865
00:48:45,693 --> 00:48:47,973
Speaker 4: I mean, he was somewhat of a colleague. We'd gotten

866
00:48:48,013 --> 00:48:52,173
Speaker 4: to know him a little bit, but she was unremitting.

867
00:48:52,173 --> 00:48:54,533
Speaker 4: I mean she just really said, what are you doing?

868
00:48:55,053 --> 00:48:59,293
Speaker 4: I mean, there's fifteen thousand people dying a day in

869
00:48:59,333 --> 00:49:04,173
Speaker 4: the world and you're putting out this. You know, you're

870
00:49:04,293 --> 00:49:07,173
Speaker 4: changing the science around I remactin how you present it,

871
00:49:07,413 --> 00:49:09,693
Speaker 4: Like how can you sleep at night? Is what she

872
00:49:09,773 --> 00:49:10,573
Speaker 4: said to him.

873
00:49:11,013 --> 00:49:14,613
Speaker 2: So that after she did that, and you haven't spoken

874
00:49:14,653 --> 00:49:16,933
Speaker 2: to him, what eventuated.

875
00:49:17,973 --> 00:49:19,813
Speaker 3: Well, actually after she did that.

876
00:49:19,893 --> 00:49:22,453
Speaker 4: She never showed me the video at the time, but

877
00:49:22,653 --> 00:49:25,973
Speaker 4: she broke off all relationships with Andy before I did.

878
00:49:26,653 --> 00:49:29,253
Speaker 4: I continue to have relationship with him because I was

879
00:49:29,293 --> 00:49:31,573
Speaker 4: trying to do good cop while she was bad cop,

880
00:49:32,053 --> 00:49:34,573
Speaker 4: because he was feeding me data that I thought was

881
00:49:34,613 --> 00:49:37,693
Speaker 4: really important, because you know what his job was to

882
00:49:37,813 --> 00:49:41,173
Speaker 4: search all of the clinical trial registries in the world,

883
00:49:41,653 --> 00:49:45,973
Speaker 4: identify all of the randomized control trials on.

884
00:49:45,853 --> 00:49:47,493
Speaker 3: Any particular medicine.

885
00:49:47,573 --> 00:49:50,893
Speaker 4: And by the time he got to ivermectin, they'd already

886
00:49:50,933 --> 00:49:54,173
Speaker 4: researched hydroctic cork and all these other things, and so

887
00:49:54,293 --> 00:49:57,613
Speaker 4: he had knowledge and he was in contact and communication

888
00:49:57,773 --> 00:50:01,453
Speaker 4: with investigators with ongoing trials, and he was like, letting

889
00:50:01,453 --> 00:50:03,213
Speaker 4: me know at some of this data show, which is

890
00:50:03,293 --> 00:50:06,893
Speaker 4: by the way, not really scientifically rigorous. You shouldn't be

891
00:50:06,933 --> 00:50:10,573
Speaker 4: sharing data of ongoing trials, but he was getting early

892
00:50:10,613 --> 00:50:13,573
Speaker 4: reports of either trial results or ongoing data. And so

893
00:50:14,973 --> 00:50:17,053
Speaker 4: I thought it was a productive relationship for me because

894
00:50:17,093 --> 00:50:19,693
Speaker 4: I was just putting stuff out there around ivermectin.

895
00:50:19,853 --> 00:50:23,773
Speaker 3: But eventually I can't remember how our.

896
00:50:23,693 --> 00:50:29,053
Speaker 4: Relationship ended, but he ended his contract with WHO. Then

897
00:50:29,093 --> 00:50:34,973
Speaker 4: he published a wickedly positive meta analysis which which departed

898
00:50:35,013 --> 00:50:37,813
Speaker 4: from his work with WHO, because when he presented his

899
00:50:37,893 --> 00:50:41,773
Speaker 4: data WHO, the WHO did not recommend ivermactin, and that

900
00:50:41,773 --> 00:50:44,333
Speaker 4: that's a whole other scandal what they did with the

901
00:50:44,333 --> 00:50:48,613
Speaker 4: ivermectin recommendation, because the data that he presented them overwhelmingly

902
00:50:48,693 --> 00:50:52,253
Speaker 4: supported the use of iromactin, but they ended up throwing

903
00:50:52,293 --> 00:50:57,453
Speaker 4: out tens of trials that he had a mass that

904
00:50:57,573 --> 00:51:01,213
Speaker 4: met their protocol for inclusion. They threw them out saying, oh,

905
00:51:01,333 --> 00:51:02,853
Speaker 4: this is what's wrong with this one and that one,

906
00:51:02,893 --> 00:51:05,533
Speaker 4: And even after throwing everything out, they found an eighty

907
00:51:05,613 --> 00:51:09,733
Speaker 4: two percent reduction immortality, and then the WHO labeled it

908
00:51:09,773 --> 00:51:13,293
Speaker 4: as low quality evidence. And as a result, because it's

909
00:51:13,293 --> 00:51:15,933
Speaker 4: such low quality. They said, most people in the world

910
00:51:16,253 --> 00:51:19,453
Speaker 4: would not want to be treated with something based on

911
00:51:19,533 --> 00:51:23,413
Speaker 4: low quality evidence outside of a clinical trial. And so

912
00:51:23,453 --> 00:51:26,613
Speaker 4: the WHO is official recommendation from March of twenty twenty one,

913
00:51:26,653 --> 00:51:28,773
Speaker 4: which do not use outside of a clinical trial. And

914
00:51:28,813 --> 00:51:33,013
Speaker 4: if you read the wording of that recommendation, it there's

915
00:51:33,053 --> 00:51:35,613
Speaker 4: nothing more that infuriates me to this day than reading

916
00:51:35,653 --> 00:51:39,253
Speaker 4: that document because they basically say, there's a paragraph in

917
00:51:39,293 --> 00:51:41,133
Speaker 4: that document wich I think is really important that this

918
00:51:41,173 --> 00:51:46,933
Speaker 4: world be aware of it goes as follows. The Clinical

919
00:51:47,253 --> 00:51:56,293
Speaker 4: Development Guidelines Group has found that although the data is

920
00:51:56,293 --> 00:52:00,253
Speaker 4: in support of ivermectin use, it is of such low

921
00:52:00,413 --> 00:52:04,693
Speaker 4: certainty that most well informed citizens of the world would

922
00:52:04,773 --> 00:52:07,253
Speaker 4: not want to be treated with it outside of a trial.

923
00:52:07,973 --> 00:52:10,373
Speaker 4: And Layton, can I just give you my interpretation of

924
00:52:10,373 --> 00:52:14,933
Speaker 4: that sentence. That means in the real world sense, I'm

925
00:52:14,933 --> 00:52:17,973
Speaker 4: picturing myself as a patient ill with COVID in a

926
00:52:18,013 --> 00:52:23,013
Speaker 4: hospital room on six leaders of nasal flow canula oxygen,

927
00:52:23,413 --> 00:52:27,693
Speaker 4: breathing at thirty times a minute, feeling terrible, and I'm declining,

928
00:52:28,373 --> 00:52:30,853
Speaker 4: and a doctor comes into my room and says to me,

929
00:52:31,493 --> 00:52:33,893
Speaker 4: doctor Corey, there's this medicine.

930
00:52:34,573 --> 00:52:35,933
Speaker 3: It's one of the safest.

931
00:52:35,533 --> 00:52:40,093
Speaker 4: Medicines in history, and based on the best available evidence,

932
00:52:40,333 --> 00:52:42,733
Speaker 4: it shows that your chance of dying will be reduced

933
00:52:42,773 --> 00:52:45,533
Speaker 4: by eighty two percent, because that's also in their documents,

934
00:52:45,533 --> 00:52:49,533
Speaker 4: statistically significant eighty two percent reduction immortality if you use Ivermaaten.

935
00:52:50,093 --> 00:52:52,373
Speaker 4: So let's say this imaginary doctor would tell me that,

936
00:52:52,813 --> 00:52:56,413
Speaker 4: and then he would say, but the evidence is it's

937
00:52:56,533 --> 00:53:00,253
Speaker 4: low certainty, would you like to be treated with it?

938
00:53:00,773 --> 00:53:04,373
Speaker 4: So that means that most well informed citizens would respond,

939
00:53:05,173 --> 00:53:08,333
Speaker 4: you know, because the evidence is of such low certainty doctor,

940
00:53:09,213 --> 00:53:12,533
Speaker 4: I'm not comfortably being treated outside of a clinical trial.

941
00:53:13,293 --> 00:53:16,213
Speaker 4: Did you understand the absurdity of what we're talking about?

942
00:53:16,373 --> 00:53:19,693
Speaker 3: Yep? That's literally the world we live in.

943
00:53:19,733 --> 00:53:21,213
Speaker 4: So when we go back to the old pier to

944
00:53:21,253 --> 00:53:26,573
Speaker 4: new pier, like I'm watching an organization that's supposedly shepherd

945
00:53:26,653 --> 00:53:29,773
Speaker 4: the public health of the citizens of the world use

946
00:53:29,853 --> 00:53:38,173
Speaker 4: this brazenly closh absurd, illogical, impractical, and inhuman reasoning for

947
00:53:38,293 --> 00:53:41,973
Speaker 4: one reason only to not recommend ifromactin.

948
00:53:42,093 --> 00:53:43,333
Speaker 3: And why don't they want.

949
00:53:43,213 --> 00:53:46,333
Speaker 4: To do that because of the people who control the

950
00:53:46,413 --> 00:53:51,173
Speaker 4: who it's controlled by Big Pharma and Bill Gates, who

951
00:53:51,253 --> 00:53:55,413
Speaker 4: has immense interest in big pharma, So of course the

952
00:53:55,493 --> 00:54:00,053
Speaker 4: who it's not a public health organization, it's literally run

953
00:54:00,093 --> 00:54:03,293
Speaker 4: by the pharmaceutical industry, and so of course to not

954
00:54:03,373 --> 00:54:06,573
Speaker 4: going to promote a repurposed drug, but the contortions and

955
00:54:06,613 --> 00:54:09,653
Speaker 4: the clownishness that they have to go to in order

956
00:54:09,693 --> 00:54:12,533
Speaker 4: to avoid doing that is so disturbing.

957
00:54:13,333 --> 00:54:17,933
Speaker 2: Is so disturbing. Strong enough, No I could.

958
00:54:18,413 --> 00:54:21,253
Speaker 4: I probably I'm a New Yorker, so I then probably

959
00:54:21,253 --> 00:54:26,093
Speaker 4: go into curse words. But it's funny though. Actually I

960
00:54:26,133 --> 00:54:27,053
Speaker 4: love how you just asked that.

961
00:54:27,133 --> 00:54:27,533
Speaker 3: Ladies.

962
00:54:27,533 --> 00:54:29,893
Speaker 4: You know why because when I talk about these topics,

963
00:54:29,933 --> 00:54:33,853
Speaker 4: I sometimes use the phrase I've run out of descriptors,

964
00:54:34,133 --> 00:54:41,333
Speaker 4: like I don't know how to describe this stuff evil, inhumane, corrupt, absurd, brazen, clownish.

965
00:54:41,453 --> 00:54:44,853
Speaker 3: I don't even know how to describe it. But it's dystopian,

966
00:54:44,973 --> 00:54:46,653
Speaker 3: is the word that's frightening.

967
00:54:47,773 --> 00:54:52,133
Speaker 2: Yeah, By the way, the interview I did right back

968
00:54:52,173 --> 00:54:53,853
Speaker 2: in the very early days of this and I said

969
00:54:53,853 --> 00:54:55,933
Speaker 2: I couldn't think of his name, Thomas Barrati.

970
00:54:57,053 --> 00:54:59,933
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, Tom Barradi, Sure, I know Tom, and Tom

971
00:55:00,013 --> 00:55:04,133
Speaker 4: Tom was I mean, he was on the hydroxychloroquin very early.

972
00:55:04,213 --> 00:55:06,933
Speaker 3: He knew that one he knew I ever meant the word.

973
00:55:07,213 --> 00:55:08,893
Speaker 3: And here's the other point.

974
00:55:09,453 --> 00:55:13,013
Speaker 4: He's another example like a Paul Marek, less so a

975
00:55:13,133 --> 00:55:17,733
Speaker 4: Pier Corey, but a literally globally prominent physician who had

976
00:55:17,733 --> 00:55:21,253
Speaker 4: reached the heights of medicine, celebrated beyond belief.

977
00:55:21,533 --> 00:55:23,973
Speaker 3: One of the most highly published areu Date.

978
00:55:24,813 --> 00:55:29,453
Speaker 4: You know, brilliant physicians who got taken down for his

979
00:55:29,533 --> 00:55:33,053
Speaker 4: opinions in COVID because they were contrarian to the objective.

980
00:55:33,813 --> 00:55:37,413
Speaker 4: It doesn't matter how high you rise, they can take

981
00:55:37,533 --> 00:55:38,453
Speaker 4: anyone down.

982
00:55:39,013 --> 00:55:41,853
Speaker 2: I've got to turn this round on to you again. Yeah,

983
00:55:41,933 --> 00:55:47,853
Speaker 2: you got taken down, but now now you're thriving. Yes,

984
00:55:48,493 --> 00:55:50,493
Speaker 2: and you gave us, You gave us, you gave us

985
00:55:50,493 --> 00:55:52,733
Speaker 2: part of an explanation for that. I think because you're

986
00:55:52,733 --> 00:55:57,613
Speaker 2: independent and you can charge and you apologize for people

987
00:55:57,693 --> 00:56:01,133
Speaker 2: who can't see you. And I saw something Onyx, I

988
00:56:01,133 --> 00:56:04,333
Speaker 2: think yesterday had said you charged twelve hundred or thirteen

989
00:56:04,413 --> 00:56:08,573
Speaker 2: hundred dollars or something, and that was abusive or people

990
00:56:08,693 --> 00:56:11,493
Speaker 2: like comments without understanding what the Can I talk about

991
00:56:11,493 --> 00:56:15,813
Speaker 2: that for a second.

992
00:56:14,213 --> 00:56:19,653
Speaker 4: Because it's so It saddens me so much because people

993
00:56:19,813 --> 00:56:23,973
Speaker 4: think that if I charge twelve hundred dollars that I'm

994
00:56:24,053 --> 00:56:27,853
Speaker 4: getting the twelve hundred dollars Like people don't understand how

995
00:56:27,893 --> 00:56:34,333
Speaker 4: businesses work. My practice has twenty five employees, We have

996
00:56:34,453 --> 00:56:35,533
Speaker 4: teams of nurses.

997
00:56:35,573 --> 00:56:37,493
Speaker 3: We do proactive follow up.

998
00:56:38,253 --> 00:56:40,853
Speaker 4: Me and my partner have committed to being the best

999
00:56:40,933 --> 00:56:44,053
Speaker 4: employers we can. We very early on, before we even

1000
00:56:44,133 --> 00:56:49,093
Speaker 4: financially we were barely financially solvent, we offered them health insurance.

1001
00:56:49,373 --> 00:56:52,613
Speaker 4: Now we offer them retirement plans where we match. Like

1002
00:56:52,893 --> 00:56:56,213
Speaker 4: I do not make a lot of money from my practice.

1003
00:56:56,293 --> 00:56:59,293
Speaker 4: I really don't. But people look at the fees we

1004
00:56:59,413 --> 00:57:02,533
Speaker 4: charge and they think that I'm laughing all the way to.

1005
00:57:02,453 --> 00:57:04,533
Speaker 3: The bank, or I'm retiring on a Hawaiian island.

1006
00:57:05,053 --> 00:57:08,373
Speaker 4: The economics of a medical practice that survives only on

1007
00:57:08,933 --> 00:57:13,933
Speaker 4: consultation is impossible to calculate because you have to understand

1008
00:57:13,933 --> 00:57:15,613
Speaker 4: how the medical system makes its money.

1009
00:57:16,213 --> 00:57:18,173
Speaker 3: They have massive profit.

1010
00:57:18,013 --> 00:57:21,413
Speaker 4: Centers that a practice where it's all our sweat and tears,

1011
00:57:21,493 --> 00:57:23,773
Speaker 4: Like I spend immense amount of times with my patients.

1012
00:57:24,533 --> 00:57:26,333
Speaker 3: We don't have imaging centers.

1013
00:57:26,413 --> 00:57:29,413
Speaker 4: I don't have blood labs where I can charge dollars,

1014
00:57:29,453 --> 00:57:33,653
Speaker 4: and I don't have surgeons and procedures or imaging. You know,

1015
00:57:33,773 --> 00:57:37,413
Speaker 4: that's how the economics of healthcare works. And so it

1016
00:57:37,573 --> 00:57:39,973
Speaker 4: saddens me that people look at a fee that I

1017
00:57:40,133 --> 00:57:43,413
Speaker 4: charge and they think that I'm overcharging. To be honest,

1018
00:57:43,613 --> 00:57:47,093
Speaker 4: I know what other folks, and I don't want to

1019
00:57:47,093 --> 00:57:50,413
Speaker 4: call us alternative or integrative, but I will tell you

1020
00:57:50,533 --> 00:57:53,933
Speaker 4: we are the most reasonably priced that I've seen. I have.

1021
00:57:54,453 --> 00:57:56,813
Speaker 3: I know colleagues that I like and enjoy respect.

1022
00:57:57,413 --> 00:58:00,453
Speaker 4: They charge immense amounts of money for what they do,

1023
00:58:00,853 --> 00:58:04,533
Speaker 4: far far higher than what I do. We do pragmatic pricing,

1024
00:58:05,213 --> 00:58:08,333
Speaker 4: and we deliver excellent care. And again, if this comes

1025
00:58:08,413 --> 00:58:12,933
Speaker 4: across as defensive, it's somewhat defenses, but it's also trying

1026
00:58:12,933 --> 00:58:16,093
Speaker 4: to explain to people that you don't understand that that

1027
00:58:16,253 --> 00:58:19,933
Speaker 4: fee is not like goes into my wallet by the

1028
00:58:19,973 --> 00:58:23,693
Speaker 4: time against my wallet, it's like a fifteenth of.

1029
00:58:23,613 --> 00:58:24,133
Speaker 3: What that is.

1030
00:58:24,213 --> 00:58:26,853
Speaker 2: I bet you wish that is anyway.

1031
00:58:26,133 --> 00:58:28,493
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wish it did. But and you know I

1032
00:58:28,533 --> 00:58:29,693
Speaker 3: could And here's the thing.

1033
00:58:30,013 --> 00:58:33,733
Speaker 4: I could probably charge fifteen thousand or I don't know.

1034
00:58:33,893 --> 00:58:37,133
Speaker 4: I probably couldn't, but three thousand of consultation five thousand,

1035
00:58:37,293 --> 00:58:41,093
Speaker 4: I don't. We're just trying to make a decent salary

1036
00:58:41,253 --> 00:58:43,893
Speaker 4: while delivering excellent care of supporting our employees.

1037
00:58:43,973 --> 00:58:46,333
Speaker 3: That's all we are, are just a normal business.

1038
00:58:46,693 --> 00:58:52,253
Speaker 2: Let's go back to public health officials. You'd be familiar

1039
00:58:52,293 --> 00:58:54,053
Speaker 2: with Ashley Bluefield.

1040
00:58:55,413 --> 00:58:58,973
Speaker 4: Heard the name that's in New Zealand, right, yes, yeah,

1041
00:58:59,653 --> 00:59:01,173
Speaker 4: they're all the same. By the way, I don't need

1042
00:59:01,213 --> 00:59:01,973
Speaker 4: to know their names.

1043
00:59:02,853 --> 00:59:07,813
Speaker 2: Okay, they but Ashley blue well, Ashley Bluefield maybe.

1044
00:59:07,693 --> 00:59:10,293
Speaker 3: Unless shuld you telling me this one stood out? Okay,

1045
00:59:10,333 --> 00:59:11,413
Speaker 3: well he did.

1046
00:59:11,693 --> 00:59:14,253
Speaker 2: He stood out because because he don't know, because he

1047
00:59:14,413 --> 00:59:18,373
Speaker 2: dumped on Ivermecton and.

1048
00:59:17,973 --> 00:59:20,013
Speaker 3: Standing out leading. Hold on, let me check you on that.

1049
00:59:20,093 --> 00:59:22,373
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no, we're not no, We're not there yet.

1050
00:59:22,373 --> 00:59:23,013
Speaker 2: I haven't finished.

1051
00:59:23,053 --> 00:59:23,773
Speaker 3: Okay, good good.

1052
00:59:25,213 --> 00:59:28,933
Speaker 2: He dumped on Ivermecton and kept dumping on Ivermecton and

1053
00:59:28,973 --> 00:59:34,573
Speaker 2: that really pissed off a fairly large number of people

1054
00:59:34,613 --> 00:59:37,253
Speaker 2: in this country. The sad ad it is that he

1055
00:59:37,333 --> 00:59:42,093
Speaker 2: got a knighthood at the end of this, and the

1056
00:59:42,133 --> 00:59:46,053
Speaker 2: Prime Minister got a damehood. And and I've asked this

1057
00:59:46,213 --> 00:59:51,413
Speaker 2: question of other people on vodcast on podcasts, and I'm

1058
00:59:51,453 --> 00:59:53,413
Speaker 2: going to ask you. I wasn't going to actually because

1059
00:59:53,413 --> 00:59:55,053
Speaker 2: I've asked it enough. But I'm going to ask you,

1060
00:59:56,053 --> 00:59:59,373
Speaker 2: would you support a move and I'm not asking you to,

1061
00:59:59,453 --> 01:00:02,253
Speaker 2: but would you would you support a move to remove

1062
01:00:02,333 --> 01:00:06,213
Speaker 2: those honors, so called honors from people who did such

1063
01:00:06,413 --> 01:00:08,493
Speaker 2: damage to their country?

1064
01:00:09,453 --> 01:00:12,693
Speaker 4: Of course I would, of course I would that that

1065
01:00:12,693 --> 01:00:15,773
Speaker 4: that goes back to my adjectives of clown world, bizarro world.

1066
01:00:15,853 --> 01:00:20,573
Speaker 4: I mean, people are celebrated for participating in a humanitarian catastrophe.

1067
01:00:21,173 --> 01:00:24,493
Speaker 3: They're getting awards and united and damed. I mean that,

1068
01:00:24,853 --> 01:00:26,373
Speaker 3: what world are we living in?

1069
01:00:27,213 --> 01:00:29,133
Speaker 4: And you know, you know what, you know what this

1070
01:00:29,173 --> 01:00:35,053
Speaker 4: triggers in my mind, Laydon? Is that what what COVID was?

1071
01:00:35,533 --> 01:00:37,813
Speaker 4: I mean, there's a lot of things, but ultimately, in

1072
01:00:37,853 --> 01:00:43,373
Speaker 4: my mind, it was a war of information and those

1073
01:00:43,453 --> 01:00:47,133
Speaker 4: that control the information sources and the dissemination of information,

1074
01:00:48,213 --> 01:00:54,413
Speaker 4: they disseminated consistently corrupted information in the forms of propaganda,

1075
01:00:54,533 --> 01:00:59,653
Speaker 4: and then they censored helpful, life saving information. It caused

1076
01:00:59,653 --> 01:01:03,733
Speaker 4: the humanitarian catastrophe and and so to celebrate those that

1077
01:01:03,773 --> 01:01:09,493
Speaker 4: were practitioners of it is sad is one word again,

1078
01:01:09,493 --> 01:01:11,213
Speaker 4: I got to break down my fassaurs.

1079
01:01:11,733 --> 01:01:17,613
Speaker 2: Yes, but it's absurd, absurd, absurd. Okay, but that's not

1080
01:01:17,653 --> 01:01:20,493
Speaker 2: the end of Ashley Bloomfield. He's now with the He's

1081
01:01:20,533 --> 01:01:24,253
Speaker 2: now with the w Y Show and and the w

1082
01:01:24,453 --> 01:01:28,293
Speaker 2: A Show is trying to corral the world with regards

1083
01:01:28,453 --> 01:01:31,253
Speaker 2: as you would be well aware with regard to their

1084
01:01:31,293 --> 01:01:35,613
Speaker 2: plan for the future. And and the question that I

1085
01:01:35,653 --> 01:01:39,093
Speaker 2: have asked others before as well is should New Zealand

1086
01:01:39,213 --> 01:01:41,493
Speaker 2: join up because they're going through.

1087
01:01:44,693 --> 01:01:47,213
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

1088
01:01:47,253 --> 01:01:52,333
Speaker 4: The more you centralize power and control, the more not

1089
01:01:52,333 --> 01:01:54,733
Speaker 4: not the more susceptible it is to being captured, because

1090
01:01:54,733 --> 01:01:59,133
Speaker 4: they can capture diverse entities across the world, but the

1091
01:01:59,173 --> 01:02:06,573
Speaker 4: more you see power into a centralized entity that is

1092
01:02:06,933 --> 01:02:12,493
Speaker 4: demonstrably cappure. There's been documentation for twenty years of how

1093
01:02:13,173 --> 01:02:16,453
Speaker 4: the WHO of old, which is I would say last century,

1094
01:02:17,253 --> 01:02:20,373
Speaker 4: has been transformed. It literally works in the service of

1095
01:02:20,413 --> 01:02:25,053
Speaker 4: big Pharma. So any country that that joints the WHO

1096
01:02:25,253 --> 01:02:30,293
Speaker 4: is basically seeding their sovereignty and their authority to corporate interests,

1097
01:02:31,533 --> 01:02:37,093
Speaker 4: which is antithetical to the purpose of government. Why would

1098
01:02:37,093 --> 01:02:40,933
Speaker 4: a government seat itself to a profit making corporation.

1099
01:02:41,733 --> 01:02:43,613
Speaker 3: I mean, to go into gates.

1100
01:02:43,333 --> 01:02:48,293
Speaker 4: Would be another hour, but he's on record showing that

1101
01:02:48,413 --> 01:02:51,933
Speaker 4: like the eighteen billion that he learned that he earned

1102
01:02:51,933 --> 01:02:55,053
Speaker 4: in the pandemic through his investments into all the things

1103
01:02:55,053 --> 01:02:56,493
Speaker 4: that they mandated.

1104
01:02:57,333 --> 01:02:58,893
Speaker 3: So I just don't.

1105
01:02:58,773 --> 01:03:01,093
Speaker 4: Understand why I see the world in a certain way

1106
01:03:01,213 --> 01:03:03,893
Speaker 4: and so few others don't. Actually, I shouldn't say that

1107
01:03:03,933 --> 01:03:08,573
Speaker 4: I don't understand. I do understand because people have been

1108
01:03:08,613 --> 01:03:14,053
Speaker 4: sickened with immense propaganda from every sphere three hundred and

1109
01:03:14,133 --> 01:03:14,893
Speaker 4: sixty degrees.

1110
01:03:16,093 --> 01:03:16,893
Speaker 3: And can we talk.

1111
01:03:16,773 --> 01:03:20,653
Speaker 4: About propaganda for a second late, because the definition that

1112
01:03:21,013 --> 01:03:24,053
Speaker 4: I've been most moved by for what propaganda is, it's

1113
01:03:24,093 --> 01:03:26,013
Speaker 4: actually from a colleague patient of mine.

1114
01:03:26,053 --> 01:03:27,533
Speaker 3: He's a world expert in propaganda.

1115
01:03:27,533 --> 01:03:31,133
Speaker 4: His name is Professor Mark Crispin Miller from New York University,

1116
01:03:32,453 --> 01:03:37,333
Speaker 4: and his definition is that propaganda is a story or

1117
01:03:37,373 --> 01:03:40,773
Speaker 4: a message to get you to think.

1118
01:03:40,853 --> 01:03:42,773
Speaker 3: Or act in a certain way.

1119
01:03:43,973 --> 01:03:46,933
Speaker 4: And when I first heard that definition, I'd already been

1120
01:03:46,973 --> 01:03:50,533
Speaker 4: deeply studied on disinformation. I'd already seen a world act

1121
01:03:50,653 --> 01:03:54,613
Speaker 4: so bizarrely against their own interests. I saw people lining

1122
01:03:54,693 --> 01:03:56,453
Speaker 4: up for these toxic vaccines.

1123
01:03:56,493 --> 01:03:57,573
Speaker 3: I saw examples of.

1124
01:03:57,573 --> 01:04:02,613
Speaker 4: Like someone passing out in centers after getting a vaccine,

1125
01:04:02,693 --> 01:04:06,733
Speaker 4: and yet the line didn't disperse. People kept showing up

1126
01:04:06,773 --> 01:04:11,133
Speaker 4: for more vaccines, and so the story or message to

1127
01:04:11,173 --> 01:04:13,973
Speaker 4: get you think or act in a certain way. The

1128
01:04:14,013 --> 01:04:18,213
Speaker 4: world just has no idea that they're being propagated, They're

1129
01:04:18,253 --> 01:04:21,333
Speaker 4: being manipulated with information to get them to think rorrect

1130
01:04:21,373 --> 01:04:25,973
Speaker 4: in certain ways, and their actions are oftentimes directly opposed

1131
01:04:26,133 --> 01:04:29,093
Speaker 4: to their interests as a human, to their well being

1132
01:04:29,213 --> 01:04:33,053
Speaker 4: and their safety. And they don't know this. They don't

1133
01:04:33,093 --> 01:04:36,013
Speaker 4: know they're being manipulated. And I don't know how to

1134
01:04:36,053 --> 01:04:39,773
Speaker 4: communicate that to the world. But I really my main

1135
01:04:39,773 --> 01:04:42,813
Speaker 4: message is very trite, right because other people like Trump

1136
01:04:42,813 --> 01:04:44,733
Speaker 4: and other people are saying, like, turn.

1137
01:04:44,533 --> 01:04:48,853
Speaker 3: Off your televisions, turn off your radios, employ critical thinking.

1138
01:04:49,253 --> 01:04:53,533
Speaker 4: You know, understand what is behind those information sources, What

1139
01:04:53,573 --> 01:04:56,973
Speaker 4: are the financial interests that are driving that information towards you.

1140
01:04:57,013 --> 01:04:58,853
Speaker 3: I mean, I just wish the.

1141
01:04:58,773 --> 01:05:02,253
Speaker 4: World would just somehow be able to identify and listen

1142
01:05:02,293 --> 01:05:08,853
Speaker 4: to independent, unconflicted researchers, doctors, media, folks, you.

1143
01:05:08,813 --> 01:05:11,613
Speaker 3: Know, folks like you. I'm sure you don't take pharmal money, Laton,

1144
01:05:12,733 --> 01:05:15,373
Speaker 3: They never offered. Yeah, that's what I was gonna say.

1145
01:05:15,373 --> 01:05:17,573
Speaker 3: But they wouldn't. They would that.

1146
01:05:18,413 --> 01:05:19,493
Speaker 2: They wouldn't.

1147
01:05:19,653 --> 01:05:21,373
Speaker 3: You wouldn't have me on if that was the case.

1148
01:05:21,453 --> 01:05:25,853
Speaker 2: They wouldn't They wouldn't get it. So Professor Mark Crispin

1149
01:05:26,093 --> 01:05:29,653
Speaker 2: Miller and what's his what's his specialty.

1150
01:05:30,773 --> 01:05:34,333
Speaker 4: So he was a professor of propaganda at New York

1151
01:05:34,413 --> 01:05:36,773
Speaker 4: University and he saw.

1152
01:05:36,693 --> 01:05:39,893
Speaker 2: All of this, so hang on. So he's a professor

1153
01:05:39,893 --> 01:05:45,213
Speaker 2: of propaganda, not to propagate propaganda, but to to educate.

1154
01:05:45,613 --> 01:05:52,053
Speaker 4: The history, ramifications, consequences, presence of propaganda in society. I mean,

1155
01:05:52,093 --> 01:05:55,173
Speaker 4: he's that that's been his life's work because and I

1156
01:05:55,213 --> 01:05:58,373
Speaker 4: think it's as probably one of the most important topics

1157
01:05:58,373 --> 01:06:01,533
Speaker 4: in the world today that doesn't get discussed. But remember,

1158
01:06:01,533 --> 01:06:04,733
Speaker 4: propaganda has started back in the nineteen twenties with Barnet's

1159
01:06:04,893 --> 01:06:08,893
Speaker 4: and the Germans used it. And everyone seems to Identifyganda

1160
01:06:08,933 --> 01:06:11,413
Speaker 4: with like the Soviet Union, North.

1161
01:06:11,253 --> 01:06:14,773
Speaker 3: Korea, Germany. And you know, one of the.

1162
01:06:14,773 --> 01:06:17,653
Speaker 4: Really funny anecdotes that really has stayed with me today

1163
01:06:17,693 --> 01:06:20,973
Speaker 4: is that I was talking to a friend of mine

1164
01:06:21,013 --> 01:06:24,653
Speaker 4: who is German, and he said, you know, back you know,

1165
01:06:24,693 --> 01:06:26,173
Speaker 4: before the Berlin Wall fell.

1166
01:06:26,413 --> 01:06:28,013
Speaker 3: He said, the.

1167
01:06:27,893 --> 01:06:33,293
Speaker 4: East Germans they didn't listen to the television. They knew

1168
01:06:33,413 --> 01:06:35,893
Speaker 4: that it was the state line to them. They were

1169
01:06:35,973 --> 01:06:38,973
Speaker 4: well aware that you don't trust the television, you don't

1170
01:06:38,973 --> 01:06:39,893
Speaker 4: trust the media.

1171
01:06:40,413 --> 01:06:42,053
Speaker 3: They laughed at that stuff.

1172
01:06:42,493 --> 01:06:45,453
Speaker 4: Whereas I live in a country in the United States

1173
01:06:46,013 --> 01:06:49,093
Speaker 4: where people turn on their televisions and radio stations and

1174
01:06:49,133 --> 01:06:50,333
Speaker 4: read their newspapers.

1175
01:06:50,813 --> 01:06:53,853
Speaker 3: They have no idea what's behind them.

1176
01:06:54,333 --> 01:06:58,133
Speaker 4: They think that these are well meaning journalists with integrity,

1177
01:06:58,213 --> 01:07:03,453
Speaker 4: who've done investigations and have determined accuracy using facts and conclusions.

1178
01:07:04,213 --> 01:07:06,413
Speaker 3: That is not true.

1179
01:07:06,493 --> 01:07:09,493
Speaker 4: If it's printed in the papers, it's because someone allowed

1180
01:07:09,533 --> 01:07:10,413
Speaker 4: it to be printed.

1181
01:07:11,373 --> 01:07:14,733
Speaker 3: You know, you can't print anything that's inconvenient to the

1182
01:07:14,773 --> 01:07:15,373
Speaker 3: powers that be.

1183
01:07:17,173 --> 01:07:20,893
Speaker 2: Something you just said was a trigger, and I was

1184
01:07:21,253 --> 01:07:24,973
Speaker 2: about to launch into the fact that education is a

1185
01:07:25,013 --> 01:07:30,173
Speaker 2: failure on a number of fronts. It's a failure here,

1186
01:07:30,173 --> 01:07:34,253
Speaker 2: it's a failure practically everywhere. But my mind was cast

1187
01:07:34,293 --> 01:07:37,773
Speaker 2: back to when I was still in still in school,

1188
01:07:38,213 --> 01:07:42,693
Speaker 2: young young, I suggest even sort of the end of

1189
01:07:42,693 --> 01:07:46,973
Speaker 2: primary school and certainly early high school. And this was

1190
01:07:47,493 --> 01:07:56,293
Speaker 2: analyzing stories from the paper in class and deconstructing them

1191
01:07:56,413 --> 01:08:00,613
Speaker 2: and working out you know what, it wasn't propaganda. It

1192
01:08:00,773 --> 01:08:04,253
Speaker 2: was how to find propaganda if you like. I don't

1193
01:08:04,253 --> 01:08:06,653
Speaker 2: know that I ever realized that, but it was too

1194
01:08:07,773 --> 01:08:12,693
Speaker 2: basically find the true path about about all sorts of things.

1195
01:08:13,213 --> 01:08:13,493
Speaker 3: I don't.

1196
01:08:13,533 --> 01:08:16,253
Speaker 2: I don't think it lasted that long as a subject,

1197
01:08:16,973 --> 01:08:21,813
Speaker 2: but I don't believe it happens at all now. No, No,

1198
01:08:22,133 --> 01:08:26,533
Speaker 2: you don't learn to think certainly don't learn to think

1199
01:08:26,613 --> 01:08:29,493
Speaker 2: critically as a as a kid, and it's easy to

1200
01:08:29,493 --> 01:08:31,173
Speaker 2: brainwash you under those circumstances.

1201
01:08:32,013 --> 01:08:36,173
Speaker 4: I totally agree, you know, I want to inject something positive.

1202
01:08:37,613 --> 01:08:44,373
Speaker 4: Why Why because because let's go back to how we started.

1203
01:08:44,413 --> 01:08:46,813
Speaker 4: Lad you asked me about old Pierre and new Pierre.

1204
01:08:47,413 --> 01:08:50,533
Speaker 4: You know, what happened to me is literally my perception,

1205
01:08:50,893 --> 01:08:54,373
Speaker 4: my awareness of reality and society and what's really going

1206
01:08:54,413 --> 01:08:58,733
Speaker 4: on truly expanded. I'm not going to claim I know everything.

1207
01:08:59,173 --> 01:09:01,493
Speaker 4: I do know I know a lot more of the

1208
01:09:01,533 --> 01:09:06,053
Speaker 4: world than I did. But the positive point is, and

1209
01:09:06,093 --> 01:09:08,973
Speaker 4: that's been positive for me. I really I think the

1210
01:09:09,053 --> 01:09:11,253
Speaker 4: only way you can live is being as well informed

1211
01:09:11,293 --> 01:09:13,293
Speaker 4: as you can, and I think I was very poorly

1212
01:09:13,333 --> 01:09:15,853
Speaker 4: informed in my prior existence.

1213
01:09:16,613 --> 01:09:19,373
Speaker 3: But I'm not the only one. This has happened to

1214
01:09:19,453 --> 01:09:20,413
Speaker 3: a lot of people.

1215
01:09:20,493 --> 01:09:23,173
Speaker 4: You know, we use that phrase that they were woken

1216
01:09:23,333 --> 01:09:26,093
Speaker 4: up in COVID, and I recently wrote a post I

1217
01:09:26,093 --> 01:09:27,173
Speaker 4: have a substack.

1218
01:09:26,813 --> 01:09:27,693
Speaker 3: That's pretty popular.

1219
01:09:27,733 --> 01:09:30,653
Speaker 4: I do a lot of writings on medical and medical

1220
01:09:30,653 --> 01:09:34,933
Speaker 4: adjacent topics. And I was doing a post on the

1221
01:09:35,013 --> 01:09:39,333
Speaker 4: trust in hospitals and physicians because there was a paper

1222
01:09:39,373 --> 01:09:42,933
Speaker 4: that got a lot of attention. But last July where

1223
01:09:43,613 --> 01:09:48,853
Speaker 4: Americans trust in hospitals and physicians from twenty nineteen to

1224
01:09:48,933 --> 01:09:53,093
Speaker 4: twenty twenty three or four plummeted from seventy one percent

1225
01:09:53,173 --> 01:09:57,693
Speaker 4: to forty percent. Americans are disgusted with the medical system

1226
01:09:57,693 --> 01:10:00,013
Speaker 4: and how they responded and all their actions they took.

1227
01:10:01,253 --> 01:10:04,093
Speaker 3: And I also found data in the media.

1228
01:10:04,613 --> 01:10:07,733
Speaker 4: So there's this survey they've done about media for like,

1229
01:10:08,013 --> 01:10:10,493
Speaker 4: I think they had data going back twenty five years,

1230
01:10:11,093 --> 01:10:15,013
Speaker 4: and they asked respondents to ask about their trust to media,

1231
01:10:15,053 --> 01:10:16,133
Speaker 4: and there's three choices.

1232
01:10:16,373 --> 01:10:22,293
Speaker 3: It was lots of trust, some trust, and no trust

1233
01:10:22,293 --> 01:10:23,533
Speaker 3: at all.

1234
01:10:23,613 --> 01:10:28,773
Speaker 4: And for the first time in history, last year, the

1235
01:10:28,893 --> 01:10:32,413
Speaker 4: highest proportion were those that had no trust in all

1236
01:10:32,453 --> 01:10:34,733
Speaker 4: in media. I think it was like forty one percent,

1237
01:10:35,253 --> 01:10:38,853
Speaker 4: and then the other choices were something less. And so

1238
01:10:38,973 --> 01:10:42,013
Speaker 4: I think people are waking up to the fact that

1239
01:10:42,053 --> 01:10:44,813
Speaker 4: we live in a world of propaganda, and I think

1240
01:10:44,853 --> 01:10:47,293
Speaker 4: that's only good for the health of the world, for

1241
01:10:47,373 --> 01:10:51,333
Speaker 4: our sanity, for our actions, because if you don't trust

1242
01:10:51,333 --> 01:10:54,173
Speaker 4: and people who are lying to you. Hopefully you can

1243
01:10:54,213 --> 01:10:57,053
Speaker 4: make decisions that are better for your welfare and your

1244
01:10:57,053 --> 01:10:57,933
Speaker 4: family's welfare.

1245
01:10:59,133 --> 01:11:04,173
Speaker 2: You know, you've distracted me from some of the directions

1246
01:11:04,173 --> 01:11:07,613
Speaker 2: I would have liked to have gone in, and we've

1247
01:11:07,613 --> 01:11:10,173
Speaker 2: got to conclude it in a minute with one of those.

1248
01:11:10,893 --> 01:11:14,733
Speaker 2: But it's occurred to me that, let me put it

1249
01:11:14,733 --> 01:11:17,733
Speaker 2: this way, the book and I have a lot of books.

1250
01:11:18,773 --> 01:11:23,733
Speaker 2: The book is fascinating. It's fascinating for a multitude of reasons.

1251
01:11:23,973 --> 01:11:28,173
Speaker 2: First of all for its information and education. Secondly because

1252
01:11:28,173 --> 01:11:31,893
Speaker 2: of the way it's written. And I found myself thinking,

1253
01:11:32,093 --> 01:11:37,093
Speaker 2: this is a scene out of a crime novel or

1254
01:11:37,133 --> 01:11:40,253
Speaker 2: some equivalent to that. It was like, it was like

1255
01:11:40,373 --> 01:11:46,453
Speaker 2: you weren't really writing about yourself and the circumstances that

1256
01:11:46,533 --> 01:11:52,893
Speaker 2: you found yourself in. You were almost almost being fictitious

1257
01:11:52,933 --> 01:11:57,773
Speaker 2: about it and writing about somebody else. But it was

1258
01:11:57,853 --> 01:12:00,973
Speaker 2: that it's that the book has written, your co author

1259
01:12:01,733 --> 01:12:04,253
Speaker 2: or whatever you called her, and you have done a

1260
01:12:04,253 --> 01:12:04,973
Speaker 2: superb job.

1261
01:12:05,853 --> 01:12:07,573
Speaker 3: I appreciate that.

1262
01:12:07,653 --> 01:12:11,493
Speaker 2: There are two I really want to touch on. One

1263
01:12:11,653 --> 01:12:15,293
Speaker 2: is you made reference toward the end of the book.

1264
01:12:15,733 --> 01:12:19,973
Speaker 2: Here we are in the last two paragraphs of the

1265
01:12:20,093 --> 01:12:25,933
Speaker 2: vaccine disinformation campaign forty. I am now estranged from not

1266
01:12:25,973 --> 01:12:29,093
Speaker 2: only those who practice medicine inside that system, but from

1267
01:12:29,333 --> 01:12:33,413
Speaker 2: science in general. At least, as it's come to be known,

1268
01:12:33,853 --> 01:12:36,493
Speaker 2: I no longer know who and what to trust within

1269
01:12:36,573 --> 01:12:40,133
Speaker 2: the system, and have now chosen to believe nothing that

1270
01:12:40,213 --> 01:12:45,173
Speaker 2: cannot be confirmed by numerous objective data sources using an

1271
01:12:45,173 --> 01:12:49,413
Speaker 2: assessment of the totality of evidence, and not the curated,

1272
01:12:49,533 --> 01:12:55,173
Speaker 2: premeditated conclusions found in high impact medical journal studies. To

1273
01:12:55,253 --> 01:12:57,333
Speaker 2: say it is a sad state of affairs is the

1274
01:12:57,453 --> 01:13:00,493
Speaker 2: understatement of my life. To realize that this state of

1275
01:13:00,533 --> 01:13:06,213
Speaker 2: medical science has existed for decades is both humbling and terrifying.

1276
01:13:06,893 --> 01:13:09,773
Speaker 2: How many people have I hurt using medicines built on

1277
01:13:10,013 --> 01:13:15,453
Speaker 2: lies in my career. My consolation is that oftentimes it

1278
01:13:15,573 --> 01:13:19,853
Speaker 2: takes great destruction to realize where weakness lies. After a

1279
01:13:19,933 --> 01:13:22,933
Speaker 2: natural disaster leaves a community in ruins, you can bet

1280
01:13:23,413 --> 01:13:26,613
Speaker 2: the rebuild structures will be engineered to withstand the next one.

1281
01:13:27,333 --> 01:13:30,053
Speaker 2: At least I know what I'm dealing with now, because

1282
01:13:30,333 --> 01:13:33,773
Speaker 2: only good things can come from that knowledge. In one

1283
01:13:33,813 --> 01:13:38,533
Speaker 2: film depiction of Pearl Harbor, the attacks planner, Japanese Admiral

1284
01:13:38,893 --> 01:13:43,213
Speaker 2: Yamamoto declares, I fear all we have done is to

1285
01:13:43,293 --> 01:13:48,213
Speaker 2: awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve. Yes,

1286
01:13:48,933 --> 01:13:52,773
Speaker 2: I am awake, and I am filled with a terrible, immense,

1287
01:13:52,973 --> 01:13:58,293
Speaker 2: galvanizing resolve. And I thought that there was a brilliant commentary.

1288
01:13:59,293 --> 01:14:00,733
Speaker 3: It is.

1289
01:14:00,813 --> 01:14:04,653
Speaker 2: It is, unfortunately not what contained what I was, what

1290
01:14:04,693 --> 01:14:07,693
Speaker 2: I was heading for, but it was worth. It was

1291
01:14:07,733 --> 01:14:12,813
Speaker 2: worth in search you mentioned you mentioned climate somewhere in

1292
01:14:12,853 --> 01:14:15,413
Speaker 2: that vicinity of what I read. You wrote that you

1293
01:14:15,733 --> 01:14:20,173
Speaker 2: don't believe things, et cetera. And you now don't know

1294
01:14:20,213 --> 01:14:24,093
Speaker 2: that you believe what they're saying about climate change. Basically

1295
01:14:24,093 --> 01:14:27,013
Speaker 2: that's what you said. You haven't had time to study it,

1296
01:14:28,133 --> 01:14:30,573
Speaker 2: but you hope you will. Climate change was where I

1297
01:14:30,613 --> 01:14:34,293
Speaker 2: started at least twenty five years ago, and I've been

1298
01:14:34,613 --> 01:14:39,093
Speaker 2: I've been warring with the powers that ever since, because

1299
01:14:39,093 --> 01:14:42,573
Speaker 2: it's a scam. It's like just like so many other things,

1300
01:14:42,973 --> 01:14:46,893
Speaker 2: it's a real scam. And I've done multiple, multiple interviews

1301
01:14:46,933 --> 01:14:51,333
Speaker 2: with people over the years on it. But climate is

1302
01:14:52,813 --> 01:14:58,733
Speaker 2: not controlled by.

1303
01:14:56,733 --> 01:14:59,453
Speaker 4: Can I say that Since I wrote that book, which

1304
01:14:59,493 --> 01:15:01,733
Speaker 4: is already I don't know, maybe two three years ago,

1305
01:15:03,453 --> 01:15:06,093
Speaker 4: I haven't spent a lot of time in climate and

1306
01:15:06,133 --> 01:15:09,693
Speaker 4: I'll tell you why, because is what makes an expert

1307
01:15:09,893 --> 01:15:15,053
Speaker 4: is pattern recognition. And all the hallmarks of the disinformation

1308
01:15:15,213 --> 01:15:20,173
Speaker 4: campaign around ivermactin are present with man made CO two

1309
01:15:20,333 --> 01:15:26,853
Speaker 4: causing global warming. Now every single thumbprint, fingerprint of the

1310
01:15:26,893 --> 01:15:30,173
Speaker 4: disinformation against cybermactin is there with gold warmer.

1311
01:15:30,253 --> 01:15:30,973
Speaker 3: So I don't care.

1312
01:15:31,013 --> 01:15:34,293
Speaker 4: And I also saw a documentary which really kind of

1313
01:15:34,333 --> 01:15:37,533
Speaker 4: stirred me to my soul where and I can't remember

1314
01:15:37,573 --> 01:15:41,333
Speaker 4: what the documentary was called, but they interviewed lots of

1315
01:15:41,533 --> 01:15:47,413
Speaker 4: prominent climate scientists who described what happens to them when

1316
01:15:47,413 --> 01:15:52,093
Speaker 4: they try to present or write papers about their data

1317
01:15:52,213 --> 01:15:55,773
Speaker 4: showing that it's not about two man made CO two.

1318
01:15:55,933 --> 01:15:59,613
Speaker 2: Well that was a British That was a British documentary, eh,

1319
01:15:59,733 --> 01:16:01,893
Speaker 2: And there were two of them, And I don't know

1320
01:16:01,973 --> 01:16:03,613
Speaker 2: whether it was the first one or the second, because

1321
01:16:03,653 --> 01:16:07,213
Speaker 2: I think they thought it a similar similar pattern in

1322
01:16:07,693 --> 01:16:13,053
Speaker 2: bas But I more recently interviewed the director of that,

1323
01:16:13,213 --> 01:16:14,293
Speaker 2: the man who put it together.

1324
01:16:15,293 --> 01:16:16,253
Speaker 3: Yeah, and.

1325
01:16:18,133 --> 01:16:21,493
Speaker 4: No hearing them, they were they were basically describing what

1326
01:16:21,613 --> 01:16:25,773
Speaker 4: happened to my career. So like I identified, their message

1327
01:16:25,813 --> 01:16:29,133
Speaker 4: resonated and I was like, you go fight that war.

1328
01:16:29,293 --> 01:16:31,933
Speaker 4: I'm fighting this war, but I realized that's a war

1329
01:16:32,293 --> 01:16:35,493
Speaker 4: of disinformation. This whole CO two thing is that, like

1330
01:16:35,533 --> 01:16:38,173
Speaker 4: you said, it's a scam, just like ivermectin is a

1331
01:16:38,173 --> 01:16:38,973
Speaker 4: horsety wormer.

1332
01:16:39,053 --> 01:16:39,813
Speaker 3: It's a scam.

1333
01:16:40,533 --> 01:16:44,093
Speaker 4: And and you know they lose grant funding, they can't

1334
01:16:44,093 --> 01:16:44,893
Speaker 4: do research.

1335
01:16:45,013 --> 01:16:46,173
Speaker 3: I mean, if you're doing.

1336
01:16:46,013 --> 01:16:50,733
Speaker 4: Inconvenient science to the narrative or to the consensus, your

1337
01:16:50,733 --> 01:16:54,053
Speaker 4: career drives up. So what you're left with are these

1338
01:16:54,573 --> 01:17:00,213
Speaker 4: fields of science which are, yeah, there's consensus because they

1339
01:17:00,213 --> 01:17:03,453
Speaker 4: get rid of all the dissidents, they starve the dissonance

1340
01:17:03,493 --> 01:17:07,653
Speaker 4: to death, or they excommunicate them, so all you get

1341
01:17:07,693 --> 01:17:08,293
Speaker 4: is parrot head.

1342
01:17:08,373 --> 01:17:13,173
Speaker 2: It's correct. And I was going to say that I

1343
01:17:13,253 --> 01:17:18,093
Speaker 2: recognized what you said about about the link between the two.

1344
01:17:18,853 --> 01:17:22,933
Speaker 2: The thing that intrigued me was I worked in reverse

1345
01:17:24,053 --> 01:17:29,533
Speaker 2: and climate change scamming trained me up for being very

1346
01:17:29,533 --> 01:17:35,013
Speaker 2: suspicious at the beginning and then developing it on everything

1347
01:17:35,013 --> 01:17:39,333
Speaker 2: to do with COVID nineteen yep. So on that note,

1348
01:17:39,933 --> 01:17:43,893
Speaker 2: I'm going to say that it's been one of the

1349
01:17:44,533 --> 01:17:50,453
Speaker 2: it's been an amazing how long hour and twenty minutes amazing,

1350
01:17:50,773 --> 01:17:52,853
Speaker 2: And you're on holiday in Hawaii, you're going to play

1351
01:17:52,893 --> 01:17:56,773
Speaker 2: golf this afternoon. I know that, and I am so

1352
01:17:56,853 --> 01:17:59,253
Speaker 2: grateful for the time that you've and the energy that

1353
01:17:59,293 --> 01:18:01,973
Speaker 2: you were put into the time that we have been talking,

1354
01:18:02,333 --> 01:18:05,493
Speaker 2: so much so that I'm going to put you on

1355
01:18:05,533 --> 01:18:08,413
Speaker 2: the spot and say, would you rejoin us because there

1356
01:18:08,453 --> 01:18:11,333
Speaker 2: are other things? Yeah, a few months down the track.

1357
01:18:12,373 --> 01:18:15,173
Speaker 4: Absolutely no, it's a pleasure. I'm happy to have joined

1358
01:18:15,213 --> 01:18:15,973
Speaker 4: you for sure.

1359
01:18:16,613 --> 01:18:21,013
Speaker 2: Anyway, listen, my thanks to your very patient wife. I

1360
01:18:21,053 --> 01:18:22,293
Speaker 2: hope that the golf goes well.

1361
01:18:23,013 --> 01:18:26,493
Speaker 3: It'll be good. It's beautiful weather here. Well, nice talking

1362
01:18:26,493 --> 01:18:27,933
Speaker 3: to man. Yeah, anytime reach.

1363
01:18:27,693 --> 01:18:31,013
Speaker 2: Out likewise, if you feel this value in it, absolutely

1364
01:18:31,173 --> 01:18:32,013
Speaker 2: thank you, Pierre.

1365
01:18:32,453 --> 01:18:33,813
Speaker 3: All right, lady, take care, bye bye.

1366
01:18:33,893 --> 01:18:52,453
Speaker 2: May No, I don't think you're going to argue with

1367
01:18:52,453 --> 01:18:53,893
Speaker 2: me when I say it was one of the best

1368
01:18:53,933 --> 01:18:56,573
Speaker 2: of the best. Just want to finish with a quote

1369
01:18:56,573 --> 01:19:00,253
Speaker 2: from the cover flap at the very bottom. For anyone

1370
01:19:00,373 --> 01:19:04,413
Speaker 2: who thought COVID nineteen was the enemy, doctor Cory's book

1371
01:19:04,453 --> 01:19:07,293
Speaker 2: will leave no doubt that the true adversary in this

1372
01:19:07,413 --> 01:19:11,373
Speaker 2: war is a elective cabal of power hungry elites who

1373
01:19:11,413 --> 01:19:14,733
Speaker 2: put profits over people and will stop at nothing in

1374
01:19:14,853 --> 01:19:18,813
Speaker 2: their quest for control. Pretty much says it all. I

1375
01:19:18,813 --> 01:19:21,533
Speaker 2: can only recommend that wherever you can find this book

1376
01:19:21,573 --> 01:19:23,573
Speaker 2: in a library or in a bookshop, or whatever, the

1377
01:19:23,613 --> 01:19:28,093
Speaker 2: war and ivormectin, it will always be a great read.

1378
01:19:29,093 --> 01:19:29,733
Speaker 3: See you soon.

1379
01:19:37,653 --> 01:19:41,253
Speaker 1: Thank you for more from News Talks at b Listen

1380
01:19:41,333 --> 01:19:44,293
Speaker 1: live on air or online, and keep our shows with

1381
01:19:44,413 --> 01:19:47,533
Speaker 1: you wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.