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Speaker 1: Here's an idea for you. Given that the global rules

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Speaker 1: based order as we know has so spectacularly broken down

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Speaker 1: under Donald Trump, and smaller countries like ours are at

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Speaker 1: risk of being bullied terribly, should we finally join Australia

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Speaker 1: as its seventh state. Political commentator David Farrer has written

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Speaker 1: an opinion piece arguing exactly this, so let's have a

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Speaker 1: chat to him about it. David, Hello, Hey, Heather, you

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Speaker 1: are being serious.

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Speaker 2: Ah, I am being serious, and it's not saying I

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Speaker 2: want to advocate. I'd rather than New Zealand's an independent country.

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Speaker 2: I've enjoyed you said I'd be to the independent country.

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Speaker 2: But if you take a hard look at where the

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Speaker 2: world is now, where it's a miter's right, where Mark

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Speaker 2: Carney said the rules based order has gone, I actually

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Speaker 2: think we need to be bigger. And we're but lucky

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Speaker 2: because we've got a country which we're very very close to,

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Speaker 2: we're culturally similar to, we're economically integrated too, and we'd

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Speaker 2: be a lot safer if we're a bigger country.

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Speaker 1: Basically, Yeah, I mean this is your argument largely as

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Speaker 1: safety and economics, right, bigger population, bigger economy, we all

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Speaker 1: become wealthier, we have a bigger defense force. But aren't

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Speaker 1: we integrated with the Australians to such an extent that

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Speaker 1: we're kind of part of them even if we're not

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Speaker 1: officially part of them anyway.

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Speaker 2: Yes, but when push comes to shove, they put their

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Speaker 2: interests first, lot they deport their five ozho ones to us.

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Speaker 2: Can't blame them for that. It couldn't happen actually if

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Speaker 2: we were part of Australia. Where I come back to

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Speaker 2: is what can happen when one of the big countries.

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Speaker 2: Let's say the US makes a demand of us. Now

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Speaker 2: on the past, you spent two or three years negotiating this,

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Speaker 2: like we did over the copyright chapter of the TPP.

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Speaker 2: They want copyright to be seventy years, We want it

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Speaker 2: to be fifty. Now, what's going to happen heither is

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Speaker 2: the US will say you're changing your copyright term to

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Speaker 2: one hundred years or one hundred percent terrifs on your meat,

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Speaker 2: beef and dairy, and fifty thousand people lose their jobs.

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Speaker 2: And when you're a small mino country, you've just got

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Speaker 2: no ability to resist.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you're a Poland guy, you're a politics guy. You

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Speaker 1: know that you may have a good idea, but you

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Speaker 1: have to convince people of it. How do you rate

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Speaker 1: your chances that Kiwis would get on board with this?

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Speaker 2: I actually wonder if Kiwis might be easier to persuade

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Speaker 2: than Aussie's. We shouldn't assume that Australia will automatically be oh, yes, yes,

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Speaker 2: we want New Zealand. But I actually think I've never

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Speaker 2: polled on this as not something up until a few

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Speaker 2: months ago I thought would be right for New Zealand.

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Speaker 2: But I actually do think New Zealanders can look around

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Speaker 2: the world and say we can't just keep going the

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Speaker 2: way we're going. It's not going to work. I guess

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Speaker 2: my challenge to the politicians out there would be, look,

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Speaker 2: if you don't think the answer is becoming a state

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Speaker 2: of Australia, which is admittedly radical, what's your solution is

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Speaker 2: it just hope no one notices us. Because the point

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to get across is the status crow of

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Speaker 2: the last fifty years is no longer valid. The world

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Speaker 2: has changed, and if we just wait for us to

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Speaker 2: realize how this one pecked us without getting prepared for it,

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Speaker 2: I think we're going to end up in a nasty place.

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Speaker 1: David, you make a compelling argument. Thank you for your time,

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Speaker 1: David farrer Key we Blog and Curia Polster.

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Speaker 2: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to

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Speaker 2: news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow

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