1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,400 Speaker 1: If you can believe it, Rocket Lab is celebrating twenty 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: years one of this country's great success stories. Of course, 3 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: milestone year become the fastest company ever to get fifty 4 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: rockets into space. These days valued north of twenty billion 5 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: as customers like NASA and the US Air Force and 6 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: Sir Peter Becker is of course Rocket Labs founder and CEO, 7 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: and as well as Peter. Good morning morning, Mike. 8 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 2: How are you very well? 9 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 1: Indeed, thank you if you charted the idea versus the 10 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: reality of how it panned out, what happened? 11 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 2: It was all too slow, if I'm honest with you, 12 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 2: I was expecting to be further on than we are. 13 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 2: But no complaints really, I think you know, the company 14 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 2: continues to grow really really strongly, but you know, it 15 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 2: always it always seems like it's going to take a 16 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 2: shorter period of time than it really does. 17 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,319 Speaker 1: It continues to grow to be what. 18 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 2: Well, look, we're trying to build the biggest space company 19 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 2: in the world, unashamably, that's where we're trying to go. 20 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 2: And you know, if you look at the market cap today, 21 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 2: as you pointed out, it's like five times the size 22 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 2: of Fonterra. So we're doing okay, but there's a lot 23 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 2: more to go. 24 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: And so in space is one of the things we've 25 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: learned in space to be successful, it's all about scale 26 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 1: or is that not fair to say? 27 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 2: It's all about scale, and it's all about execution, and 28 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 2: it's all about reliability. And you know, there's been a 29 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 2: lot of a lot of capital poured into the space 30 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 2: industry over the years, and and you know, if those 31 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 2: those three things aren't there, then then that's that's where 32 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 2: the failure occurs. But you know, we've we've been lucky 33 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 2: and worked hard to make sure that you know, we 34 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 2: continue to execute and you know, our products work and 35 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 2: work reliably. 36 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 1: It seems today that there's money out there, truckloads of 37 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: money for things like space AI, all of those sort 38 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: of things. Was that always the case when you started 39 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: in space? Was there money out there for cool ideas? 40 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 2: No, you have to put into context. Mike, I came 41 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 2: from New Zealand with no degree to Silicon Valley, from 42 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 2: a country that had no space industry, and raised five 43 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 2: million dollars, which was an absurd amount of money at 44 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 2: the time. I mean, you go to Silicon Valley with 45 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 2: just just you know, a nutty idea in space and 46 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 2: you can go and raise fifty one hundred million dollars. 47 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 2: So no, very very different times. 48 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 1: How much I mean your reputation precedes you. I am 49 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: assuming to some degree now because of your success. But 50 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: how much of the money in space these days is 51 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,519 Speaker 1: just crazy money? Risky money? Throw it at an idea. 52 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: Some of it will stick a. 53 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 2: Lot less now like it was super fluffy in twenty 54 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 2: twenty one. Like you know, we saw things that get 55 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 2: funded that didn't even follow the laws of physics, but 56 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 2: much much harder now. 57 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 1: Do you need what would you call yourself? Are you 58 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: a visionary or are you a businessman or a bit 59 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: of both? And if you are a visionary, do you 60 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: need a businessman? 61 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 2: Well, I'd hope that on my termstone its is engineer. 62 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 2: But you know, it's definitely a strong marriage between engineering 63 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 2: and business because you have to make good business decisions 64 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 2: along with good engineering decisions. And if either one of 65 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 2: those decisions are bad, then then that's that's when you 66 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:01,679 Speaker 2: have problems. 67 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: Is there a certain I already in having NASA involved 68 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: in that. Once upon a time, space was NASA and 69 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: NASA was space. Whereas the whole thing's sort of flipped, 70 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: hasn't it. 71 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I mean it's funny because my original dream 72 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,799 Speaker 2: is to go and work for NASA and things. Was 73 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 2: on our fourth launch that we actually flew NASA, So 74 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 2: that was that was you know a bit of a 75 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 2: bit of a moment for us. But but but NASA's 76 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 2: always sort of contracted folks to build stuff for them. 77 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 2: They've always built up as well. But it's certainly much 78 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 2: more of a you know, you know, an outsource model 79 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 2: now than it ever was. 80 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: Is your story typical? In other words, if you start 81 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: from New Zealand in an area that goes big globally, 82 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: you will inevitably have to leave New Zealand and be 83 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: somewhere else. Is that fair? 84 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:50,839 Speaker 2: Well? I mean, this is this is the crazy thing 85 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 2: about if you want to build a big, successful company, 86 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 2: by definition, it has to be global because there's not 87 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 2: scale in New Zealand. So I always always get, you know, 88 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 2: somewhat annoyed when we folks say, oh, isn't it sad 89 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 2: that rocket Lab had to list in Nasdak and be 90 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 2: a global company. It's like, no, that's the only way 91 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 2: you can build scale. I think it's a great success 92 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 2: when companies start in New Zealand and grow and have 93 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 2: to go into national and global and become large, successful, 94 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 2: multi multi nationals. I think that is the definition of success. 95 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 1: What about the technical side of what you do and 96 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: how fast it's increasing in terms of what you do, 97 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: the efficiency of what you do, the reliability of what 98 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: you do, and whether that projection keeps going. 99 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean, you know, as long as as 100 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 2: as long as technology keeps moving, then that's always the case. 101 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 2: I mean, we certainly sit on the bleeding edge of innovation, 102 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 2: and that's part of our secret. Writers. If you look 103 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 2: at our kind of traditional competitors, the large aerospace primes, 104 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 2: you know their failure has been innovation and all the respects. 105 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 2: So you know, you can chart the course and look 106 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 2: at the similarities between you know, the successful space companies 107 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 2: and they all look kind of like rocket Lab and 108 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 2: space X these days. 109 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, are you cognizant and do you think of what 110 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 1: you've done for your industry in a place like New Zealand. So, 111 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: in other words, you were a pioneer and a kid 112 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 1: in school can think of space as being a real 113 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: option as opposed to a dream like option. 114 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's a real option. I mean, for me growing up, 115 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 2: it was I have to move to America and go 116 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 2: and work Panassa. But you know there's about nine hundred 117 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:31,479 Speaker 2: kiwis that just work in Rocket Lab alone, and we 118 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 2: have something like one and a half thousand suppliers all 119 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 2: supporting the various missions that we have going on around 120 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 2: the world. So you know, a career in space these 121 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 2: days is you know that that is absolutely attainable and 122 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 2: almost standard. 123 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: Do you have labor issues hiring great people or as 124 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: the industry full of great people? 125 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 2: No, we do, I mean, and the bar at Rocket 126 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 2: Lab is extraordinarily high. The HR team was saying to 127 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 2: me the other day that it's twice as easy to 128 00:05:57,720 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 2: get into Harvard University than it is to get into 129 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 2: Rock Lab. And we're unashamable about that because we only 130 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 2: hire the best. But you know, when you put the 131 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 2: best people in a team together and throw resources at them, 132 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 2: then you know that's when the magic happens. But it 133 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 2: is a continual throttle for us, like finding the best talent. 134 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,359 Speaker 1: Are you beyond the economy in that sense? You know what? 135 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 1: Back here on Earth, we're worried about tariffs and the 136 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: price of cost of living crisis, and all of those 137 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: real world things. Does the space industry just keep on 138 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: being the space industry no matter what is happening in 139 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: the world. 140 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 2: Pretty much? Actually, if you track the history of the 141 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 2: space industry, because the build cycles of the you know, 142 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 2: whether it's a rocket or a spacecraft, is so long, 143 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 2: it generally spans like the you know, the ebbs and 144 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 2: flows of the economy. Now, certainly, you know, from an 145 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 2: entrepreneurial standpoint, the access to capital becomes great and then 146 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 2: it goes in cycles as well and then less, but 147 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 2: generally it does kind of span those larger macroeconomic things. 148 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 2: But if you look at the industries that are growing 149 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 2: the most, it's like AI in space and a few others. 150 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 2: So you know, there's there's there's no kind of there's 151 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 2: no kind of slack in the system. 152 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: How have you kept control of the company in terms 153 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: of as it's grown bigger. You can't be everywhere and 154 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: be everything to every one. 155 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, that that is that is the hardest thing, and 156 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 2: if I'm honest, I worry about that the most and 157 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 2: it's been probably spend the most amount of times just 158 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 2: making sure the rocket lab culture never changes because you know, 159 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 2: we've acquired six companies, and when you acquire a company, 160 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 2: you acquire a certain degree of culture. So that's probably 161 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 2: something I spend the most amount of time on. And 162 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 2: you can go to any one of our businesses anywhere 163 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:43,119 Speaker 2: in the world and there's always a key we sitting 164 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 2: there in some level of some level of authority. So 165 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 2: you know that that that that's kind of one way 166 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 2: we do it. But but yeah, no, I think I 167 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 2: think that's that's something worth have to have to work 168 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 2: hard at. 169 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: And is it true that Kiwis are different in terms 170 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: of work ethic their view of the world that you 171 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: can spot at KIWI And that's why a lot of 172 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: internationals like Kiwis. 173 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 2: Absolutely but for the positive end. For the negative, you know, 174 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 2: the one thing that I'm always banging on with Kiwis 175 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 2: is that we just don't think big enough. Like I 176 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 2: can go to America and stand up in a room 177 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 2: and say i' and I build a bigger space company 178 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 2: in the world and everybody cheers. I do the same 179 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 2: thing in the room in New Zealand and everybody sort 180 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 2: of goes, I don't know about that, and you know 181 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 2: what I mean. So that's one of the biggest issues 182 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 2: that we have in New Zealand, just like think bigger 183 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 2: and be more ambitious and get after it. 184 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 1: You're well said. Will you be with the company forever? 185 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: I mean business people, you know, you buy your cell, 186 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: you get bored out, whatever the case may. Will you 187 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: be with rocket Lab until you decide you're no longer 188 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: wanting to be with rocket Lab? 189 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:45,079 Speaker 2: Well, I think one or two things will happen and 190 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 2: they'll take me out in the box, or somebody will 191 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 2: tap me on the show shoulder hopefully and say that 192 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 2: I'm no longer effective and it's time to go. That's 193 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 2: probably the reality. 194 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: Fantastic, good to catch up with you, appreciating congratulations on 195 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: twenty years a Peter Beck twenty years of rocket Lab. 196 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 1: For more from the mic O Mosking Breakfast, listen live 197 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 1: to News Talk Set B from six am weekdays, or 198 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.