1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: Barry Sober, our senior political correspondent, is. 2 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 2: With us Alo Berry. Good afternoon, Heather. 3 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: It's been a hot topic of debate today, isn't it. 4 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 2: Well, it has, and I've got to say personally, has 5 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,040 Speaker 2: brought back some terrible memories of what the time was like, 6 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 2: particularly in the long lockdown here in Auckland that we 7 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 2: now understand. The official said it didn't have to be 8 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 2: lockdown as long as it was, but nevertheless they kept 9 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 2: us in a prison like situation and it really was 10 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 2: people who were distrustful of their neighbors. It was just awful. 11 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 2: So the motion on the Royal Commission's COVID findings was 12 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 2: moved of course by the Health Minister Simeon Brown, who 13 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 2: was followed by Labour's COVID minister at the time and 14 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,480 Speaker 2: the former Prime Minister Chris Hipkins. Have a listen. 15 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 3: The Royal Commission finds that restrictions extended beyond what public 16 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 3: health advice recommended. Decisions meant that kiwi's were separated from family, 17 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 3: people could not be at the bedside of dying loved ones, 18 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 3: and funerals were held without family present. Businesses closed and 19 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 3: children stayed home from school for months. Mental health services 20 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 3: were overwhelmed and many New Zealanders are still living with 21 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 3: these consequences today. The Commission finds former ministers chose to 22 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 3: keep Auckland an alert level for lockdown against public health 23 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 3: advice and unredacted Cabinet papers obtained by the Royal Commission 24 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 3: also revealed that former ministers kept an Auckland boundary in 25 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 3: place over Christmas and New Year, against the explicit advice 26 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 3: of the Ministry of Health. The Commission finds that economic 27 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 3: buffers were depleted and the debt that accumulated has left 28 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 3: New Zealand with less room to respond to future shocks. 29 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 3: And a direct quote sums up what I think is 30 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 3: a high quality report. Quote evidence shows New Zealand had 31 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 3: had one of the best pandemic responses in the world 32 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 3: end quote by a further quote by many measures altero 33 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 3: in New Zealand's response to the pandemic was enviable. 34 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 4: We recorded lower case numbers and fewer COVID nineteen deaths 35 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 4: per capita than nearly all all comparable countries. 36 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 2: But we would wouldn't we. I mean, we are an 37 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 2: Ireland nation. I don't know why we're you know, we're 38 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 2: lauding the fact that we had fewer deaths, but you 39 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 2: know it was it was a tough time. But ex 40 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 2: David Seymour says what labor allowed to happen during the 41 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 2: COVID period can't be forgotten. And it's not just those 42 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 2: who died with the disease. He's followed here by the 43 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 2: Maldi Party's Debbie no Riwa Packer. 44 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 5: It was those women who didn't know they had breast 45 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:36,959 Speaker 5: cancer because screening was stopped. It was those children who 46 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 5: missed out on learning that will affect them for their 47 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 5: lifetime because education was put down the society's totem pole 48 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 5: of priorities as COVID became everything. It's those butchers who 49 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 5: were crying on the footpath as they threw out meat 50 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 5: yet again because their stores were shut while their competitors 51 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 5: in the back of supermarkets could continue. 52 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,519 Speaker 6: But the true this is the guy. When he was 53 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 6: Minister of Police, crime went up. When he was Minister 54 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 6: of education, school attendants went down. When he was Prime minister, 55 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 6: government debt went. 56 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 3: Through the roof. 57 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 6: If this guy opened a funeral parlor, nobody would die. 58 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 6: He can screw up anything. 59 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: We know that Mali and Pacifica communities were disproportionately affected, 60 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: and that isn't something that's because of their culture, that's 61 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 1: because of deprivation. How does the Minister reconcile the report's 62 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: findings with us ongoing removal of tatilliti obligations from the 63 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: health system. 64 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 3: I will mispeak. 65 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 5: I say those are two separate. 66 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 2: Things, and they certainly are. It did bring back memories. 67 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 2: I remember getting back from Auckland here and door stopping 68 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 2: Jasin Dada and asking her, how many times have you 69 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 2: been to your electorate in Mount Albert in the time 70 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 2: that Auckland's been locked down? She hadn't been. No, she 71 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 2: didn't come here. She said, I've got people on the 72 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 2: ground that will tell me what's happening. 73 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 4: No, you don't think everybody was shocked when the anger 74 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 4: of Auckland was funneled down to Wells, who appeared at the. 75 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 2: First she went, She went, came up here the week 76 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 2: later and visited a place that had remained open Luxeon 77 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 2: first caucus. 78 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 7: Did they discussed it? 79 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 2: Of course they would have discussed it, no doubt about it. 80 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:21,479 Speaker 2: That poll result was obviously on the agenda A question though. 81 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 2: I've got to say Luxan was pretty relaxed in the 82 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 2: House today, so he obviously feels quite good having come 83 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 2: out of the caucus, and a question on the number 84 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 2: of kiwis leaving the country somewhat backfired on the Labor 85 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 2: leader Crusipkins today, does. 86 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 4: He think that the two thousand New Zealanders a week 87 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 4: who have been giving up and leaving the country under 88 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 4: his leadership feel that the economies turned around? 89 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 7: Well, I'm pleased to report that actually New Zealander's returning 90 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 7: back to New Zealand was up twelve percent on the 91 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 7: previous year and for the last four months, I'm very 92 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 7: pleased to say that New Zealanders leaving is less than 93 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 7: in any month in the period that he was promised. Ouch, 94 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 7: why doesn't he just asks mate jor Cinder, who's the 95 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 7: leading keyder's left the country? 96 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,479 Speaker 2: If he really want to exactly exactly? 97 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 7: Hey, So how is this going to work? 98 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 4: If the Maori Party is forced to take money a 99 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 4: men or cup a Kinni back well and they don't 100 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 4: want her her out with. 101 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 2: Great difficulty, I would imagine, I mean, John Tammy Herey 102 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 2: is not going to be happy. And what it sees 103 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 2: is the actions that they talk are wrong and a 104 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 2: lot of people would say, well, a court of law 105 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 2: should they be deciding these things? Well, you know, every 106 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 2: party has a constitution and it would seem they were 107 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 2: in breach of this when they booted Krpakingie out and 108 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 2: don't forget essentially what they said was she had misused funds. Well, 109 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 2: what's become of that? Nothing? Really, but what's going to 110 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 2: become of the Maori Party, who could indeed be in 111 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 2: coalition with the Labor Party. Doesn't hold a lot of 112 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 2: stead for a solid unified party, does it. 113 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,119 Speaker 7: No, Barry, thanks very much, appreciate it. Barry Soper, Senior 114 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 7: political correspond 115 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 4: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 116 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 4: news Talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 117 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 4: the podcast on iHeartRadio.