WEBVTT - Outgoing Meridian CEO on cost of power

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<v Speaker 1>Kyoda and welcome to Shed Lunch, brought to you by Shears's.

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<v Speaker 1>In this bonus episode, we continue our conversation with outgoing

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<v Speaker 1>Meridian CEO Neil Barclay as he reflects on his seven

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<v Speaker 1>years at the helm of one of our largest companies.

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<v Speaker 1>We have this conversation at a time when New Zealand

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<v Speaker 1>faces another uncertain winter around power supply and as prices

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<v Speaker 1>start to rise for consumers. Before we jump in, here's

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<v Speaker 1>some important information.

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<v Speaker 2>Investing involves the risk you might lose the money you

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<v Speaker 2>start with. We recommend talking to a licensed financial advisor.

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<v Speaker 2>We also recommend reading product disclosure documents before deciding to invest.

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<v Speaker 2>Everything you're about to see and here is current at

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<v Speaker 2>the time of recording.

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<v Speaker 1>Neil, welcome to the studio. Just thinking about the last

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<v Speaker 1>year and given that you are moving on in so

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<v Speaker 1>a few months time, would you describe it as the

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<v Speaker 1>annis horribilist? Just recently you said something about taking one

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<v Speaker 1>for New Zealand and your media release.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it was an extreme drought last year and it

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<v Speaker 3>cost us a lot of money to manage through it.

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<v Speaker 3>But we we did what was right, you know. We

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<v Speaker 3>made sure that we invested money to ensure that there

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<v Speaker 3>were some physical responses from thermal generators, from companies like

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<v Speaker 3>the aluminum smelter who could reduce demand, and then we

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<v Speaker 3>could use that energy for other customers. We paid for

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<v Speaker 3>all of that and that ensured that the light stayed on.

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<v Speaker 3>So that's that's an important part of the role that

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<v Speaker 3>we play as a gen Taylor in the New Zealand market.

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<v Speaker 3>We are large. We have the financial capacity to help

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<v Speaker 3>support the system and New Zealand through significant drought situations

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<v Speaker 3>like we you know, like we had last year. But

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<v Speaker 3>at the same time, we've we've progressed our development options considerably.

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<v Speaker 3>We've now got four projects coming up to five fully

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<v Speaker 3>consented and ready to build, including to Hoe. We've continued

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<v Speaker 3>to grow our share of the retail market in New Zealand.

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<v Speaker 3>So magically the businesses has had a fantastic year, just

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<v Speaker 3>a financial hit based on a drought that that do

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<v Speaker 3>come along and we prepare for them.

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<v Speaker 1>What are some of the other things that you've done

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<v Speaker 1>I think for customers, I mean, would this for example,

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<v Speaker 1>would this deal if it goes through, have an effect

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<v Speaker 1>on them?

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<v Speaker 3>Ultimately? Yeah, because the more renewables that we build into

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<v Speaker 3>the system, they have a very low cost marginal cost,

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<v Speaker 3>so when they're generating, it's very low cost and that

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<v Speaker 3>will drive energy costs down in New Zealand on the

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<v Speaker 3>whole and on the average over time. It'll take a

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<v Speaker 3>week bit of time for.

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<v Speaker 1>That to flow through, because aren't we all, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>most of us are seeing increases in our electricity bill

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<v Speaker 1>and that's probably going to take a while. It could

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<v Speaker 1>be five percent I think I've seen in some cases.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there are some price increases coming through. Most of

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<v Speaker 3>them are actually coming through the monopoly parts of the business,

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<v Speaker 3>so lines companies just yea, the generators generate the energy

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<v Speaker 3>and then we sell it to customers at the retail end,

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<v Speaker 3>you've got all those wires and transformers and things that

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<v Speaker 3>get it between the generation plant and the customer premises.

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<v Speaker 3>Because that those businesses are largely monopolies, they get regulated

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<v Speaker 3>by the Commics Commission. The Commics Commission sets what their

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<v Speaker 3>maximum price can be, so the Commis Commission has how

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<v Speaker 3>to look at that and put the prices up. We

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<v Speaker 3>think that needs a bit of looking at, but you know,

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<v Speaker 3>we're not the experts in that area. So those costs

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<v Speaker 3>have to get passed on to consumers, because there's no

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<v Speaker 3>way we can absorb them, or offset them, or become

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<v Speaker 3>more efficient through them. What we do, though, is take

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<v Speaker 3>a long term view on the cost of energy. So

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<v Speaker 3>that's how part of the business what we generate. And

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<v Speaker 3>whilst generation costs wholesale generation costs were very high last year,

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<v Speaker 3>that does not get passed through to consumers because we

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<v Speaker 3>take a long term view and we know that once

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<v Speaker 3>we're through this gas pinch point we're calling it, we've

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<v Speaker 3>got a whole bevy of new renewable generation projects that

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<v Speaker 3>get delivered probably within the twenty seven twenty nine time frame,

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<v Speaker 3>that pinch point will be resolved and you'll start to

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<v Speaker 3>see a moderation those whole high wholesale prices again and

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<v Speaker 3>then we you know, so we wear the cost in

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<v Speaker 3>the meantime if you like, to not put too much

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<v Speaker 3>burden on the customers.

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<v Speaker 1>So you're saying in time, power prices will come down.

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<v Speaker 3>Energy costs in New Zealand and time will come down.

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<v Speaker 3>That's my strong belief. That's what the global trend would

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<v Speaker 3>tell us. Cost renewables is coming down. It's now cheaper

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<v Speaker 3>to build to really or a soul the farm in

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<v Speaker 3>this country than to run an existing gas fire plant.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's inevitable. We're just going to build these renewables.

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<v Speaker 3>It will drive costs down in the long run. And

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<v Speaker 3>as people electrify their use, so stop burning petrol in

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<v Speaker 3>your car and go to an EV, the cost of

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<v Speaker 3>powering your vehicles, powering your homes, powering your businesses will

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<v Speaker 3>come down.

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<v Speaker 1>You've got an EV, yeah, yeah, Tesla.

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<v Speaker 3>No, no, it BMW AND's got a little money as well,

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<v Speaker 3>so yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And do people get enough money back though from the grid.

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<v Speaker 1>That's all often a thing in terms of because the

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<v Speaker 1>solar they have, and yeah, and because I've heard people

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<v Speaker 1>grumble a little bit about that. Is that going to change?

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<v Speaker 3>It goes through stages. At the moment, Meridians buyback rates

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<v Speaker 3>are pretty competitive. I shouldn't quote this because it's you know,

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<v Speaker 3>we're marketing, we're changing prices all the time, but it's

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's up around seventeen cents. So we're buying

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<v Speaker 3>energy off people and there's who have solar on their

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<v Speaker 3>roofs at that sort of price. But we can build

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<v Speaker 3>terillary hoe for probably something around eight cents or so.

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<v Speaker 3>It's far more expensive for us to buy it off

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<v Speaker 3>solar customers than to build a wind farm or build

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<v Speaker 3>a grit scale solar plant. But what we're trying to

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<v Speaker 3>do is still support customers who want to build solar

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<v Speaker 3>on their rooftops because we think it's still going to

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<v Speaker 3>be a really important part of decarbonizing the whole economy

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<v Speaker 3>and the whole system. We can't do it all with

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<v Speaker 3>grit scale generations. So we do need you know, we

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<v Speaker 3>do need solar on most roofs in this country, and

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<v Speaker 3>so we're trying to support that through buy back rates

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<v Speaker 3>and through also coming up with a decent solar proposition

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<v Speaker 3>that support.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think so because we had that solar company

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<v Speaker 1>that went bust, didn't we that was earlier in the Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think that's kind of tainted a few people's

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<v Speaker 1>views on things.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's unfortunate. I don't think any of the customers

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<v Speaker 3>have been left in the lurch, which is really good. Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>and you know, but we need to have a look

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<v Speaker 3>at what went wrong with that business model. There's no

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<v Speaker 3>need for solars installers to be going broke. I don't

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<v Speaker 3>think the business is only going to grow.

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<v Speaker 1>Surely we can arn off Australia.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we can and Australia haven't necessarily done it the

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<v Speaker 3>smart way, so they've you know, they've invested a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of subsidy dollars to support customers to build solar, and

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<v Speaker 3>what that has meant is has created distortions within their markets.

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<v Speaker 3>So there's actually too much solar in Australia in those

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<v Speaker 3>sunny days, and it means that the grid scale big

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<v Speaker 3>coal plants that have to run and can't slow down

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<v Speaker 3>or speed up when there's a whole bunch of solar

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<v Speaker 3>being injected into the grid have to keep running and

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<v Speaker 3>have to pay to run, so you're not getting negative prices,

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<v Speaker 3>and what that's doing is discouraging the investment in new renewables.

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<v Speaker 3>It's really perverse impacts, but it's so sort of nono

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<v Speaker 3>unintended consequences you do tend to get when governments and

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<v Speaker 3>policy makers decide to intervene in a market and decide

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<v Speaker 3>what they think is going to work best. You're best

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<v Speaker 3>off letting the economics drive the right activities and allow

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<v Speaker 3>customers customers to make informed choices on the fundamental economics

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<v Speaker 3>of what's driving things at that time.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, now you've been at Meridium, I think it's actually

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<v Speaker 1>close to two decades, if I'm not wrong, and seven

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<v Speaker 1>years at the Helm. It sounds like there's going to

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<v Speaker 1>be quite a change for your life coming up. I

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<v Speaker 1>think you're going to be on the board of the

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<v Speaker 1>New Zealand and Chorus. Is there anything else that you

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<v Speaker 1>can to tell us?

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<v Speaker 3>Not of any interest. I mean, my wife's looking forward

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<v Speaker 3>to having some help. We've got a bit of a

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<v Speaker 3>lifestyle block six an rfect. There's there's always stuff to do.

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<v Speaker 3>I need to upgrade the chainsaw, for sure. I love fishing,

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<v Speaker 3>hunting and need to do a bit more of that.

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<v Speaker 3>I'll probably look at another board appointment or two, just

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<v Speaker 3>so I keep my hand in. But certainly it's a

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<v Speaker 3>lifestyle change for me. You know, when you're a chief

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<v Speaker 3>executive of a business like Meridian, it takes a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of effort. And you know, my sixtieth birthday this.

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<v Speaker 1>Year, so congratulations.

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<v Speaker 3>And hand it over to a young whipper snapper like Mike,

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<v Speaker 3>who's he's got heaps of energy. He has a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of good ideas.

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<v Speaker 1>We had him on the frogum not so long ago.

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<v Speaker 1>And I don't think I've got a word in hitch ways.

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<v Speaker 3>I never do either. But but no it's it's it's

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<v Speaker 3>great to have a bit of change, fresh injection of

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<v Speaker 3>ideas and enthusiasm and energy, and the time is right

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<v Speaker 3>for me to sort of bark on a different stage

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<v Speaker 3>of my life and career.

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<v Speaker 1>So would you you're still an investor and I imagine

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<v Speaker 1>an advisor at some point if you need to be,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean your knowledge, Look that.

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<v Speaker 3>There's it's not it's not considered good governance in New

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<v Speaker 3>Zealand for a chief executive to go straight on to

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<v Speaker 3>the board.

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<v Speaker 1>Point.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so there is a sort of a standown period.

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<v Speaker 3>But I Obviou said, hey, look in three years time,

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<v Speaker 3>if you need another director, I'll be around.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll be the one I'll be around.

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<v Speaker 3>And I'll be more than willing because I love the business.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a fantastic company, it's a fantastic culture, and like

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<v Speaker 3>I say, the opportunities to support New Zealand to decarbonize,

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<v Speaker 3>it's just that there isn't a better one, and the

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<v Speaker 3>opportunities to grow the businesses outstanding as well. Whilst supporting

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<v Speaker 3>our customers ultimately pay less for the energy and that's

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<v Speaker 3>pretty fundamental to what we're trying to achieve it.

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<v Speaker 1>So would that be the most exciting thing you think

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<v Speaker 1>in that tenure that you've been able to achieve or

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<v Speaker 1>with the team.

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<v Speaker 3>There's a lot that we've done internally, difficult to go

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<v Speaker 3>into a couple of things. I'm immensely proud of our

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<v Speaker 3>energy hardship program. We got the board a few years

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<v Speaker 3>to go to sign off on a five billion dollar

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<v Speaker 3>program of work over a couple of years that would

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<v Speaker 3>allow us to support five thousand customers in a hardship.

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<v Speaker 3>We know there's more of our customers that are in

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<v Speaker 3>energy hardship, so we've got to do better. But that

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<v Speaker 3>was a real step forward. I think we set the

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<v Speaker 3>standard across all retailers in New Zealand around that and

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<v Speaker 3>how we pork people to be able to afford to

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<v Speaker 3>pay and keep for their bills and keep their homes,

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<v Speaker 3>women and so forth. Like say, our retail business has

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<v Speaker 3>grown by more than sixty percent, and retail in New

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<v Speaker 3>Zealand has not grown by anything in fifteen years, so

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<v Speaker 3>that's all been market share. We have one market share

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<v Speaker 3>off other retailers because I think we're doing it better.

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<v Speaker 3>We care more for our customers, We've got the pricing

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<v Speaker 3>service propositions right. We can always improve and we've got

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<v Speaker 3>some really exciting ideas and opportunities how to do that,

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<v Speaker 3>particularly supporting customers to use assets within their home to

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<v Speaker 3>be able to move their energy around and therefore get

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<v Speaker 3>cost savings as a result. For example, we've launched a

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<v Speaker 3>hot water product, So if you allow us to control

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<v Speaker 3>your hot water cylinder, we'll make sure that you don't

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<v Speaker 3>have a cold shower in the morning, but we will

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<v Speaker 3>move the time that that water in that cylinder gets

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<v Speaker 3>heated around to fit better within low rice periods of

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<v Speaker 3>the day. Those sorts of ideas, and it can all

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<v Speaker 3>be done automatically, so the customer doesn't have to be

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<v Speaker 3>involved or think about it or pushing buttons or telling

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<v Speaker 3>us what to do, and we just set it up

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<v Speaker 3>in advance. Same with charging your ev you know, we

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<v Speaker 3>can move that energy around, and there's quite a lot

0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:20.040
<v Speaker 3>you can do with solar and batteries. So these are

0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:22.920
<v Speaker 3>the sorts of ideas that we're working through that will

0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:27.680
<v Speaker 3>save customers money and I think further enhanced the Meridian brand.

0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:30.640
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, there's a lot of stuff on the customer

0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:33.880
<v Speaker 3>front that I'm just super chupped with and a lot

0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:35.600
<v Speaker 3>more opportunity to go for.

0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:39.360
<v Speaker 1>To Finnish Neil Any regrets that.

0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:41.959
<v Speaker 3>Has no point in hand regrets. There's a few things

0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:43.640
<v Speaker 3>I would have liked to have got done that it

0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:47.280
<v Speaker 3>probably won't happen on my watch. I'm very determined that

0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:50.679
<v Speaker 3>Terrari will be one of those will get done on me,

0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:55.640
<v Speaker 3>not one that wouldn't. But now I would have liked

0:12:55.640 --> 0:13:00.320
<v Speaker 3>to have moved faster, if anything. But it's it is hard,

0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:03.120
<v Speaker 3>it's complex. It's very difficult getting a project of the

0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:08.000
<v Speaker 3>scale consented in New Zealand. Meridians never had a consent

0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:10.680
<v Speaker 3>turned down. We always do the right thing by both

0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:16.760
<v Speaker 3>the environment, by the communities in and around who operate

0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:20.920
<v Speaker 3>in and around these sort of large scale ultricy generation plants.

0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:23.480
<v Speaker 3>But it takes time.

0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:25.400
<v Speaker 1>It's hard too, isn't it.

0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:26.319
<v Speaker 3>And it's expensive.

0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:30.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because Contact's been kicked back in christ Church for

0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:31.160
<v Speaker 1>a big soldo.

0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:33.760
<v Speaker 3>Down and down in the Deep South. I don't know

0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:36.480
<v Speaker 3>all the facts that all the ins and outs around that.

0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:39.000
<v Speaker 3>It'll be disappointing for them. Like I say, we've never

0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:42.640
<v Speaker 3>been kicked back, but we've had to go through the

0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:45.640
<v Speaker 3>hoops and we need to find a way to streamline,

0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:50.640
<v Speaker 3>streamline that Companies like Meridian contact and others. We need

0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:53.160
<v Speaker 3>to do the right thing by the environment. You need

0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:55.400
<v Speaker 3>to be trusted to be able to do that. But

0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:57.920
<v Speaker 3>we need to speed up the whole process if we're

0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:02.800
<v Speaker 3>going to successfully decarbonize the economy, and we will, we will.

0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:05.959
<v Speaker 3>It's happening. The government's working on it, we're all working

0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:11.040
<v Speaker 3>on it. It's happening. It's just this pesky little problem

0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:13.880
<v Speaker 3>with gas that we've got at the moment. But like

0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:16.440
<v Speaker 3>I say, and I don't want to my understate that

0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:21.720
<v Speaker 3>because it is significant, but it will be resolved and

0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:24.440
<v Speaker 3>its projects exactly like Terry whole, that will make all

0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:24.920
<v Speaker 3>the difference.

0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:28.200
<v Speaker 1>So you'll be watching from the sidelines but doing a

0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:32.240
<v Speaker 1>fear bit more fishing and leisure of time is going

0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:35.000
<v Speaker 1>to be where it's at from now on pretty well.

0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:36.720
<v Speaker 3>But I think the New Zealand Bord will keep me with.

0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:39.520
<v Speaker 1>Yes, a few challenges there.

0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:42.640
<v Speaker 3>And I was sitting next to someone I barely knew

0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:45.520
<v Speaker 3>on a plane the other day. It was pointing out

0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:48.800
<v Speaker 3>some improvements that I could take back to the boot,

0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:52.000
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, you get that. I think being an the

0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:55.160
<v Speaker 3>New Zealand ambassador in our country because that company is

0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:59.280
<v Speaker 3>so important to us all and the chorus Borders is

0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:05.640
<v Speaker 3>also really citing connectivities everything, and they they are you know,

0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:08.000
<v Speaker 3>they know, they're run five a network in this country

0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:10.800
<v Speaker 3>that connects us all. So I mean, I've tried to

0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:15.840
<v Speaker 3>choose businesses that matter, and they are two that do,

0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:19.760
<v Speaker 3>and Maridin obviously is one that does well.

0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:21.440
<v Speaker 1>I wish you all the best, Neil, thank you for

0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:25.040
<v Speaker 1>coming in today and talking to us, and thanks everyone

0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:27.640
<v Speaker 1>for tuning in. You can watch Shared Lunch on YouTube

0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:30.720
<v Speaker 1>or follow us on your favorite podcast app. Leave us

0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:33.080
<v Speaker 1>at rating and tell us what you'd like to hear next.

0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:35.160
<v Speaker 1>Ma twa