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Speaker 1: Thomas Coglan, the Herald's political editors with us Thomas Hallow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, good afternoon.

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Speaker 1: As you predicted, means testing is coming in by the

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Speaker 1: sounds of.

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Speaker 2: Things, Yeah, yeah, very very interesting. I mean this was

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Speaker 2: essentially confirmed on your show yesterday. Nikola willis coming on.

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Speaker 2: I've listened back to the audio. She was asked three

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Speaker 2: times by you whether there would be any means testing

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Speaker 2: to the best Start payment that's the seventy three dollars

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Speaker 2: a week for parents of newborn's and then key we

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Speaker 2: save subsidies that's up to five hundred and twenty dollars

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Speaker 2: a year if you save into your keep saver. She

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Speaker 2: was asked three times whether there would be means testing

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Speaker 2: to those those areas of spending, and she wouldn't say no.

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Speaker 2: And it was interesting because you know, I did note

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Speaker 2: that she did say there was no changes to the

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Speaker 2: winter energy payment or the emissions trading scheme, So you know,

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Speaker 2: I think I think you can draw a pretty strong

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Speaker 2: connection between ruling one and one out. So very interesting.

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Speaker 2: Interesting lyere, we'll see on May twenty second budget day

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Speaker 2: what's happening.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how much it saves

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Speaker 1: as well. But I mean, these are the kinds of

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Speaker 1: things we'll have to wait for the day to actually

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Speaker 1: has revealed.

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Speaker 2: I actually have the numbers on the KIV saver subsidies

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Speaker 2: are about a billion dollars a year one point two billion,

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Speaker 2: so you wouldn't if you mean testing them, you might

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Speaker 2: not get rid of all of that. But one point

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Speaker 2: two billion a year on the kV saver ones, and

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Speaker 2: the best starts about three hundred and thirty million dollars

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Speaker 2: a year, so it's not small amounts of money. But

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Speaker 2: obviously we're spending about one hundred and forty billion dollars

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Speaker 2: a year, so it's there's still quite a lot a

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Speaker 2: lot to go defitits I think about fourteen billion, so

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of money.

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Speaker 1: And so what's Labour's reaction to all of this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well labors were struggling away, but they they they

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Speaker 2: blamed the deficit the cuts yesterday on the fact that

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Speaker 2: there were tax cuts in the last budget, sort of saying,

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Speaker 2: you know, if we didn't do the tax cuts last year,

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Speaker 2: then you wouldn't have to do the spending cuts this year.

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Speaker 2: But of course Labor at the election obviously wasn't promising

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Speaker 2: big tax cuts and did have the GST cut, but

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Speaker 2: they were promising far more spending than the nets, So

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Speaker 2: it's not it's not as if if it's not as

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Speaker 2: if Labor were re elected and this cut were't elected,

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Speaker 2: that the books would be in any better shape. Yes,

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Speaker 2: public services would have more funding based on what Labor

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Speaker 2: was promising, but also based on what Labor was promising,

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Speaker 2: there would be far more borrowing to pay for that funding.

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Speaker 2: So I think Chris Hipkins is trying to have it

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Speaker 2: both ways slightly. He's sort of saying, you know, look,

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Speaker 2: we'll fun public services better and have less borrowing. You

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Speaker 2: kind of you can't really do both unless you whack

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Speaker 2: a massive tax on the side, which it doesn't look

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Speaker 2: like that they're looking to do. I think it looks

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Speaker 2: like Labor's planning a relatively modest capital gains tax this

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Speaker 2: time around, and not a big wealth tax like they

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Speaker 2: were looking at a couple of years ago.

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Speaker 1: Hey, listen, were you expecting the Artitia to be retired

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Speaker 1: this year? Well?

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Speaker 2: There was. Interestingly enough, this was announced just this afternoon.

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Speaker 2: A couple of minutes ago, there had been some reporting

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Speaker 2: that it might need to be retired ahead of the

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Speaker 2: new theories coming in twenty twenty nine because there needs

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Speaker 2: to be a lot more work done at the Picton terminal.

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Speaker 2: But it certainly, I certainly wasn't expecting it to be

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Speaker 2: to basically retire from service almost immediately after it's entered

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Speaker 2: service in nineteen ninety nine. So yeah, look, there was

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Speaker 2: a bit of speculation, but this Sydney seems to have

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Speaker 2: come as a bit of a shot to some of us.

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Speaker 1: Yes, totally, okay, now I know because of course, if

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Speaker 1: there isn't a kerfuffle on the Cookstrade already, it's going

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Speaker 1: to cause more of a kerfuffle.

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Speaker 2: Isn't it.

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Speaker 1: Now what I'm getting a look, the text machine is

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Speaker 1: having such a crack at me right now because everybody

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Speaker 1: on the text machine says we need to have financial

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Speaker 1: literacy in schools, which is fine, because we need to

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Speaker 1: have everything in schools. But what are we dropping Thomas?

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Speaker 2: That is? That is a very good question. I look,

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Speaker 2: I reckon stand for what's chatting today about this? I

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Speaker 2: actually can't see that there is any that it's being

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Speaker 2: dropped for anything. Maybe you're aware of something I'm not.

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Speaker 2: It just looks like it's being it's being lumped onto

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Speaker 2: the curriculum. I have to agree with your texters. I

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Speaker 2: think a bit of financial literacy is good. You know

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Speaker 2: a lot of people are doing stuff like, oh, you know,

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Speaker 2: like when the tariffs are announced, they switched the key

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Speaker 2: we saver out of a growth and into a conservative

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Speaker 2: and locking those losses. You know, someone needs to tell

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Speaker 2: the kids to not do that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, come on, I mean is that kind of believe

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Speaker 1: it is that the level of is that what the

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Speaker 1: kids are going to learn or the kids going to learn?

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Speaker 1: In one side of the ledger you put in how

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Speaker 1: much your you're earning, and in the other side of

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Speaker 1: the leger you put in how much you're spending. And

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Speaker 1: that's called a budget.

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Speaker 2: Well, honestly, either with with with net core crown deet

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Speaker 2: approaching two hundred billion dollars, I think all five million

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Speaker 2: of us could do it.

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Speaker 1: Maybe do you think do you think if all all

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Speaker 1: five million of us and done financial literacy would be

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Speaker 1: harder on the finance minister and expect a zero budget?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Perhaps perhaps perhaps the perhaps the person who's least

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Speaker 2: who has the least incentive for this financial literacy as

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Speaker 2: the financial.

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Speaker 1: Hey thank you. Thomas has always appreciated Thomas Coglan, the

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Speaker 1: Herald's political editor. For more from Hither Duplicy Allen Drive,

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Speaker 1: listen live to news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays,

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