WEBVTT - Sam Cane: former All Blacks captain on his move to support new rapid response concussion Hit Kit

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine

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<v Speaker 1>from Newstalk zb Well.

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<v Speaker 2>If anybody understands the cauldron and the physical nature of

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<v Speaker 2>rugby tests in South Africa, it is former All Blacks

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<v Speaker 2>captain Sam Kain.

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<v Speaker 3>Aaron Smith nice over the heat pass from Barrett for

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<v Speaker 3>Will Jordan. Right hand side of the park is the

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<v Speaker 3>skipper Sam Kaine, right hand side the All Black smill

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<v Speaker 3>At first try and look how much it means to them.

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<v Speaker 2>But Sam Kaine also knows better than most the physical

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<v Speaker 2>toll elite rugby can take. And now the former All

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<v Speaker 2>Blacks captain and one hundred and five match All Blacks

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<v Speaker 2>loose forward is lending his support to a New Zealand

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<v Speaker 2>developed initiative aimed at improving the way concussion is managed

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<v Speaker 2>at every level of the game. He has become an

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<v Speaker 2>ambassador for hit Kit, a rapid response concussion kit created

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<v Speaker 2>by concussion specialist and founder of the Headache Clinic Helen

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<v Speaker 2>Tafoui to help players, coaches and families navigate the crucial

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<v Speaker 2>first seventy two hours after a suspected head knock at

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<v Speaker 2>any level of the game. Sam came's with us Good

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<v Speaker 2>Afternoon Sam, Thanks for your time, mate. What was it

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<v Speaker 2>about hit kit and helen Tofui's work that made you

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<v Speaker 2>want to get involved?

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<v Speaker 4>Hey, Pini, thanks having me on. You summarized it all

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<v Speaker 4>pretty well there in the intro, But the reason I

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<v Speaker 4>wanted to get involved, and it was really just because

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<v Speaker 4>I saw the work. I saw what she had created

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<v Speaker 4>and literally just flipped a message and said, well done.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm imagine he's going to have a really positive impact

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<v Speaker 4>on the community game and good on you for creating it.

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<v Speaker 4>And she messaged back saying thank you. Would you like

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<v Speaker 4>to be involved in helping get it out there? And

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<v Speaker 4>I just thought, yeah, that's it's a great opportunity. You know,

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<v Speaker 4>I'm happy to do my partner help try and promote

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<v Speaker 4>it and get it out there and hopefully you get

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<v Speaker 4>to a stage where sort of every rugby team in

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<v Speaker 4>New zeal And, right from junior footy all the way up,

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<v Speaker 4>has one on the sideline in case something happens.

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<v Speaker 2>Throughout your rugby career. How much did your understanding of

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<v Speaker 2>concussion change from when you first started playing to when

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<v Speaker 2>you well, I mean you're still playing, but how much

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<v Speaker 2>has it changed across your career?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's changed a lot for sure, and yeah, it

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<v Speaker 4>will change a lot in the next ten years too.

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<v Speaker 4>I think even from when I started out, there was

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<v Speaker 4>still protocols in place, but just our level of understanding

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<v Speaker 4>of it has increased massively, and I think there's been

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<v Speaker 4>real positive steps in the professional game. And we are

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<v Speaker 4>lucky because we've got medical experts on hand to help

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<v Speaker 4>us and navigate the recovery process and make sure we're

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<v Speaker 4>fairly well looked after. But he had the community game.

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<v Speaker 4>We often rely on volunteers and parents to do their best,

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<v Speaker 4>and this kit just allows them like peace of mind

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<v Speaker 4>with some real to your guidelines around what to do.

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<v Speaker 4>And that's all you want for those seventy two hours,

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<v Speaker 4>is to know that you've done everything you can to

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<v Speaker 4>help set someone up for a full recovery.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a physical sport, it's a contact sport. That's the

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<v Speaker 2>attraction for a lot of people who get involved in it.

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<v Speaker 2>How difficult is it as a player to admit that

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<v Speaker 2>you've taken a knock to their head when your instinct

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<v Speaker 2>is just to stay on well, I think it's.

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<v Speaker 4>Two different knocks. If someone's taken a bad one, sometimes

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<v Speaker 4>they're not actually aware that they're not quite right, and

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<v Speaker 4>that's where you do rely on teammates, you know, people

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<v Speaker 4>on the sideline to pick those sort of things up.

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<v Speaker 4>And then there's other knocks where you're not sure or

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<v Speaker 4>you always you say you do know you're not quite right,

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<v Speaker 4>but you know part of you may want to try

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<v Speaker 4>and carry on. And it's it's almost been embedded into

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<v Speaker 4>the rugby culture over years. You know, like if you're

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<v Speaker 4>a little bit injured, you can will play on then

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<v Speaker 4>stay on from back in the days when you know

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<v Speaker 4>a player would never go off and give someone on

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<v Speaker 4>the bench an opportunity. But when it comes to a

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<v Speaker 4>head knock, the bravest and the most greatest thing you

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<v Speaker 4>can do is put your hand up and say no,

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<v Speaker 4>I'm not quite right and take yourself off. Because we

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<v Speaker 4>know from studies it's like taking a knock is one thing,

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<v Speaker 4>but it's to take two blows in one game can

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<v Speaker 4>can be a lot worse. So look, there's been twice,

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<v Speaker 4>I think in my career where I've taken a knock,

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<v Speaker 4>tried to play on for a couple of minutes and

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<v Speaker 4>realized I'm not quite right and put my hand up

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<v Speaker 4>and taken myself off the field. Yes.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think attitudes among players have changed, have genuinely

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<v Speaker 2>changed or is there still a bit of a tendency

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<v Speaker 2>to as you say, of you know, I'm okay, I've

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<v Speaker 2>taken ahead, I'll play on. Do you think there's still

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<v Speaker 2>a tendency to downplay concussion symptoms in some areas or

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<v Speaker 2>has there been major improvement.

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<v Speaker 4>There's definitely been major improvement. Like it's really hard to

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<v Speaker 4>speak on behalf of everyone, but I know a lot

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<v Speaker 4>personally my attitudes towards it, certainly in the probably second

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<v Speaker 4>half of my career, having seen teammates have had to

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<v Speaker 4>retire from it. And then, yeah, I suppose it's sort

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<v Speaker 4>of a low key advocate, like if I see someone

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<v Speaker 4>take a knock, I'll be one of the first to

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<v Speaker 4>check in and make sure they are a ride or

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<v Speaker 4>alert someone from the sideline. So I think it has changed.

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<v Speaker 4>It's it's always difficult because some players are at different

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<v Speaker 4>stages of their careers. They might be playing for an opportunity,

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<v Speaker 4>they've just got an opportunity, or playing for a contracts,

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<v Speaker 4>all these sort of things, and that's where things can

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<v Speaker 4>be harder for some people. But the more education that

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<v Speaker 4>we've got out there, the more awareness and we create

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<v Speaker 4>around it, then hopefully will continue to trend in the

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<v Speaker 4>right direction.

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<v Speaker 2>I know every parent listening and you're probably the same.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, you want the best for your kids and

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<v Speaker 2>you don't want to put them into into potentially perilous situations,

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<v Speaker 2>but you want them to get involved in sport, and

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<v Speaker 2>rugby is a massive part of our sporting culture. Parents

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<v Speaker 2>I know can sometimes struggle with the decision of whether

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<v Speaker 2>their child should even play rugby or return to the

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<v Speaker 2>sport after they've taken a knock. What is your message

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<v Speaker 2>to rugby mums and dads.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, it's such an amazing sport. Well, sport in general

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<v Speaker 4>is great.

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<v Speaker 1>But.

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<v Speaker 4>The camaraderie that you get from rugby and all the

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<v Speaker 4>life lessons you learn, like there's you could go mountain biking,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, all these different supports and there's always an

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<v Speaker 4>element of risk and you know that and that's part

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<v Speaker 4>of it what makes it fun also as well. But

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<v Speaker 4>I think when it comes to the concussion where people

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<v Speaker 4>shouldn't be scared off by it because a large number

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<v Speaker 4>of cases suffering a concussion. As long as that's treated well,

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<v Speaker 4>it's like any other injury, your body will make a

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<v Speaker 4>can make a full recovery. And that's the important of

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<v Speaker 4>the hip Kat, is that the first seventy two hours

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<v Speaker 4>is really important. There's clear guidelines and if someone does

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<v Speaker 4>stuff for a concussion and you look after them well,

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<v Speaker 4>then there's no reason why they won't make a full recovery.

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<v Speaker 4>So although it's neven nice seeing a concussion or someone

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<v Speaker 4>affected by a blow like that, it's it can As

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<v Speaker 4>long as it's treated, then there's a good chance to

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<v Speaker 4>everyone makes a full recovery. I'd hate for it to

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<v Speaker 4>be the reason it scares people off because the the

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<v Speaker 4>risks that are involved are far outweighed by the benefits

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<v Speaker 4>and the growth that someone is likely to get they

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<v Speaker 4>fall in love with the game, that's the main thing.

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<v Speaker 4>As a peri and I just want my kids to

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<v Speaker 4>be able to fall in love with something a sport,

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<v Speaker 4>an activity or hobby and just really really go after it.

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<v Speaker 4>And if their kids steps Rugby for their kids, then

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<v Speaker 4>yes there's risks involved, absolutely, but there's so much, so

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<v Speaker 4>many benefits as.

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<v Speaker 2>Well well said, Mate, well said, and hit Kid I

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<v Speaker 2>think is going to have a huge, hugely positive effect.

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<v Speaker 2>As you say, on the first seventy two hours after ahead,

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<v Speaker 2>not mate, while I've got your Speaking of physical challenges,

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<v Speaker 2>South Africa, the All Black's over there at the moment.

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<v Speaker 2>You played them sixteen times I think in test matches.

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<v Speaker 2>Were they genuinely the most physically challenging for you?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, probably consistently the most physically challenging. I mean, like

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<v Speaker 4>we had veried the early in my career. We had

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<v Speaker 4>some really good wins over them, you know, like that,

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<v Speaker 4>So they're not I think at the start of the games,

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<v Speaker 4>like what the All Blacks are trying to play getting

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<v Speaker 4>back to sort of our would call our rugby DNA,

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<v Speaker 4>a little bit of faster tempo and trying to bring

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<v Speaker 4>a bit of fatigue back into the game. The South

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<v Speaker 4>Africans are like anyone to say, say, get a bit

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<v Speaker 4>of fatigue and the physicality drops off as well. So

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<v Speaker 4>a key, a key for us, I think, and hopefully

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<v Speaker 4>the officials allow a free flying game one of obviously

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<v Speaker 4>I guess the storms wasn't like that, so it didn't.

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<v Speaker 4>It doesn't really allow the fatigue to creep in quite

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<v Speaker 4>the same. But yeah, that physical budget at even you know,

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<v Speaker 4>just yea perkhum and again aren't they And it's in

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<v Speaker 4>those close quarters. You know, collectively, size does matter, so

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<v Speaker 4>it's a good challenge. Though, like I used to love

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<v Speaker 4>playing cert Africans, there's always this.

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<v Speaker 2>Talk about playing at altitude as well. You know, all

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<v Speaker 2>we've got to play at altitude. That's going to be

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<v Speaker 2>it has to be a lot harder, Is that true?

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<v Speaker 4>It is a lot harder. Absolutely. It's the first time

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<v Speaker 4>you play there, I reckon that really catches you off

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<v Speaker 4>guard because you've never experienced anything like it. You feel unfit, yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>throats burning, and you're just wondering if you're going to

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<v Speaker 4>be able to get through. But it's like any thing hard,

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<v Speaker 4>once you've done it once before, been pushed through, you

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<v Speaker 4>know what you're capable of. So I've experienced a few

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<v Speaker 4>times both that almost quite enjoyed playing there because you

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<v Speaker 4>knew it was going to get hard, but you knew

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<v Speaker 4>you could push through. And it's not. Well, the South

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<v Speaker 4>Africans are immune to outsitude either. There's only a small

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<v Speaker 4>group of them that actually live at altitude. You know,

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<v Speaker 4>a lot of them don't even live in South Africa

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<v Speaker 4>these days, play there rugby in Japan or around the world.

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<v Speaker 4>So I don't personally, I don't see it as a big,

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<v Speaker 4>big advantage to them playing at outstude and if anything,

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<v Speaker 4>it may allow a little bit more fatigued to creep

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<v Speaker 4>onto the game. And that's sort of the last ten

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<v Speaker 4>minut of each half. And you know, as all boats,

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<v Speaker 4>we try and back ourselves and execute in those moments

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<v Speaker 4>when keep going. So, yeah, it's hard, but as what

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<v Speaker 4>it is.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you were part of a lot of memorable

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<v Speaker 2>All Blacks wins in South Africa here at World Cups,

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<v Speaker 2>is there one performance, one All Blacks performance that sort

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<v Speaker 2>of stands out as the blueprint for how to beat

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<v Speaker 2>them particularly over there, perhaps.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh, we had a lot of year. You're right, we

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<v Speaker 4>had some really good wins and a lot of them involved.

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<v Speaker 4>Some of them were at Alice Park, which is at altitude.

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<v Speaker 4>We'll probably the most of the ones that stick outer

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<v Speaker 4>at altitude actually, And same thing, you'd finished the game,

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<v Speaker 4>or we'd have photos and the theme room of previous

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<v Speaker 4>teams and we'd acknowledge teams that had gone before they'd

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<v Speaker 4>finish the game, and just pure exhaustion, like guys, hands

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<v Speaker 4>on knees, crouched over and just reminds you of how

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<v Speaker 4>deep you have to push yourself to win there. But

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<v Speaker 4>to your question around the blueprint, it's as if we're

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<v Speaker 4>it's if we're able to move the ball. As you said,

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<v Speaker 4>that bigger a little bit, bigger body. So if we

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<v Speaker 4>can keep them, keep them moving, keep the ball in play,

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<v Speaker 4>minds the downtime, and I think that that plays into

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<v Speaker 4>our hands a little bit, a little bit of variation

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<v Speaker 4>with how we play our kicking game. If the defense

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<v Speaker 4>is coming up hard in the midfield, We've had a

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<v Speaker 4>bit of success with some kicks in behind. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>the blueprint I think, but it's relies a wee on

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<v Speaker 4>the officials as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, you're right there, you're right there. How's everything

0:13:01.747 --> 0:13:03.027
<v Speaker 2>going in Japan? You enjoying it?

0:13:03.907 --> 0:13:07.547
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, Yeah, it's been good. It's soft season at the

0:13:07.587 --> 0:13:10.867
<v Speaker 4>moment back in New Zealand, but you head back in

0:13:10.867 --> 0:13:14.747
<v Speaker 4>about three weeks to start pre season and at three

0:13:14.747 --> 0:13:16.467
<v Speaker 4>and a half months of free season in the heat.

0:13:16.747 --> 0:13:19.187
<v Speaker 4>But yeah, one more year on my contract over there,

0:13:19.227 --> 0:13:22.467
<v Speaker 4>and we'll see we might be certainly getting closer to

0:13:22.507 --> 0:13:22.827
<v Speaker 4>the end.

0:13:23.507 --> 0:13:25.067
<v Speaker 2>All right, We'll keep tabs on that. I've kept you

0:13:25.107 --> 0:13:28.027
<v Speaker 2>from your family for long enough. Sam, congratulations on your

0:13:28.027 --> 0:13:30.387
<v Speaker 2>involvement in hit Kit. I know it's going to have

0:13:30.387 --> 0:13:34.187
<v Speaker 2>a hugely positive impact on a lot of families around

0:13:34.227 --> 0:13:36.187
<v Speaker 2>the country. Thanks for joining us, made always good to chat.

0:13:36.707 --> 0:13:39.427
<v Speaker 4>Thanks finally, thanks for thanks for giving me on to

0:13:39.507 --> 0:13:41.707
<v Speaker 4>chat about it. As you say, I think it can

0:13:41.747 --> 0:13:44.507
<v Speaker 4>really do some awesome stuff and hopefully in sort of

0:13:44.507 --> 0:13:46.507
<v Speaker 4>five years time, it's one of those things that's sort

0:13:46.507 --> 0:13:49.387
<v Speaker 4>of up there beside the first aid kits for most families.

0:13:49.467 --> 0:13:50.867
<v Speaker 4>So yeah, thanks.

0:13:50.587 --> 0:13:53.187
<v Speaker 2>Mate, No, thank you, mate. Sam King joining us on

0:13:53.387 --> 0:13:58.267
<v Speaker 2>News TALKSB and Weekend Sport. Hit Kit is a rapid

0:13:58.307 --> 0:14:03.667
<v Speaker 2>response concussion kit developed by concussion expert Helen Tofui, designed

0:14:03.667 --> 0:14:06.067
<v Speaker 2>to support the critical first seventy two hours after a

0:14:06.107 --> 0:14:10.147
<v Speaker 2>head injury at any level. In the kit, there is

0:14:10.187 --> 0:14:12.507
<v Speaker 2>a step by step recovery guide for days one to three,

0:14:12.907 --> 0:14:17.547
<v Speaker 2>a concussion red flag checklist, an instant ice pack, a

0:14:17.707 --> 0:14:22.587
<v Speaker 2>rapid absorption supplement, and a mini wound care first aid pack.

0:14:23.307 --> 0:14:26.827
<v Speaker 2>All of that is in hit Kit. It's only forty bucks.

0:14:27.147 --> 0:14:30.227
<v Speaker 2>I mean that's pretty good value, right, pretty good value.

0:14:30.427 --> 0:14:33.787
<v Speaker 2>Hit Kit dot en z is where you find out

0:14:33.827 --> 0:14:37.747
<v Speaker 2>more hit Kit dot en z. Great to have Sam

0:14:37.827 --> 0:14:39.787
<v Speaker 2>Kane as an advocate. Incredible, isn't it? You just saw

0:14:39.947 --> 0:14:43.427
<v Speaker 2>Helen to Foy's post about it, thought I'll just flicker

0:14:43.427 --> 0:14:45.507
<v Speaker 2>a note and say congratulations, and all of a sudden,

0:14:45.587 --> 0:14:48.227
<v Speaker 2>he's an ambassador and an advocate. Not a bad guy

0:14:48.267 --> 0:14:52.187
<v Speaker 2>to have on doing doing that. Tam Kaine is also

0:14:52.187 --> 0:14:55.027
<v Speaker 2>they're giving us the blueprint for beating the spring box.

0:14:55.547 --> 0:15:00.067
<v Speaker 2>Just run them around, run those big buggers around, get

0:15:00.067 --> 0:15:04.827
<v Speaker 2>them tired, induce fatigue. That's how we do it. And

0:15:04.907 --> 0:15:10.107
<v Speaker 2>thankfully Daver, any strategy is based on that. Optimism has

0:15:10.107 --> 0:15:13.347
<v Speaker 2>been the catch cry, hasn't it for dav Andy's All Blacks?

0:15:13.387 --> 0:15:17.587
<v Speaker 2>Quick rock ball, moving it through the hands, getting it wide,

0:15:17.627 --> 0:15:20.707
<v Speaker 2>finding space as Sam mentioned there, and he can perhaps

0:15:20.707 --> 0:15:22.227
<v Speaker 2>do this now that he's not on the All Blacks.

0:15:22.227 --> 0:15:25.107
<v Speaker 2>It does rely a little bit on the officials, and

0:15:25.227 --> 0:15:31.507
<v Speaker 2>yesterday in the tu Ropena there wasn't exactly an officiating

0:15:31.547 --> 0:15:34.267
<v Speaker 2>team that wanted the game to flow necessarily in that game.

0:15:34.307 --> 0:15:36.507
<v Speaker 2>I think that's fair to say. Hopefully it'll be better

0:15:36.547 --> 0:15:40.467
<v Speaker 2>in the Test matches, but I feel after hearing Sam

0:15:40.547 --> 0:15:43.147
<v Speaker 2>Kane talk one hundred test All Black former captain talk

0:15:43.147 --> 0:15:44.747
<v Speaker 2>about how you do it, and he won a lot

0:15:44.747 --> 0:15:48.147
<v Speaker 2>of Test matches over there, sort I crunched the numbers

0:15:48.147 --> 0:15:52.027
<v Speaker 2>on Sam Kine ahead of that interview. He played against

0:15:52.027 --> 0:15:55.627
<v Speaker 2>South Africa sixteen times, won ten of them, and seven

0:15:55.667 --> 0:15:58.267
<v Speaker 2>of those games he played against them were in South

0:15:58.307 --> 0:16:01.747
<v Speaker 2>Africa and he won four, So he was more often

0:16:01.747 --> 0:16:03.667
<v Speaker 2>a winner in South Africa than he was on the

0:16:03.667 --> 0:16:08.987
<v Speaker 2>losing side. Lot more optimistic. How optimistic do you feel

0:16:09.027 --> 0:16:13.547
<v Speaker 2>about this upcoming test series? Yesterday we spoke about about

0:16:13.587 --> 0:16:16.347
<v Speaker 2>yesterday's game. We can touch on that but tonight at

0:16:16.387 --> 0:16:19.427
<v Speaker 2>around ten o'clock. The side to face the Sharks in

0:16:19.507 --> 0:16:22.467
<v Speaker 2>Durban Wednesday morning is named by Dave Rennie, so we'll

0:16:22.467 --> 0:16:24.867
<v Speaker 2>have I think it will almost completely changed side. We'll

0:16:24.867 --> 0:16:26.547
<v Speaker 2>find out and I think we can all pretty much

0:16:26.587 --> 0:16:29.587
<v Speaker 2>name it the shadow side for these test matches. That's

0:16:29.587 --> 0:16:30.987
<v Speaker 2>what he's going to put out against the Sharks in

0:16:31.067 --> 0:16:32.067
<v Speaker 2>Durban on Wednesday.

0:16:32.707 --> 0:16:35.867
<v Speaker 1>For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live

0:16:35.987 --> 0:16:39.307
<v Speaker 1>to News Talk said B weekends from midday or follow

0:16:39.307 --> 0:16:40.947
<v Speaker 1>the podcast on iHeartRadio