Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
Speaker 1: from Newstalk zb Well.
Speaker 2: If anybody understands the cauldron and the physical nature of
Speaker 2: rugby tests in South Africa, it is former All Blacks
Speaker 2: captain Sam Kain.
Speaker 3: Aaron Smith nice over the heat pass from Barrett for
Speaker 3: Will Jordan. Right hand side of the park is the
Speaker 3: skipper Sam Kaine, right hand side the All Black smill
Speaker 3: At first try and look how much it means to them.
Speaker 2: But Sam Kaine also knows better than most the physical
Speaker 2: toll elite rugby can take. And now the former All
Speaker 2: Blacks captain and one hundred and five match All Blacks
Speaker 2: loose forward is lending his support to a New Zealand
Speaker 2: developed initiative aimed at improving the way concussion is managed
Speaker 2: at every level of the game. He has become an
Speaker 2: ambassador for hit Kit, a rapid response concussion kit created
Speaker 2: by concussion specialist and founder of the Headache Clinic Helen
Speaker 2: Tafoui to help players, coaches and families navigate the crucial
Speaker 2: first seventy two hours after a suspected head knock at
Speaker 2: any level of the game. Sam came's with us Good
Speaker 2: Afternoon Sam, Thanks for your time, mate. What was it
Speaker 2: about hit kit and helen Tofui's work that made you
Speaker 2: want to get involved?
Speaker 4: Hey, Pini, thanks having me on. You summarized it all
Speaker 4: pretty well there in the intro, But the reason I
Speaker 4: wanted to get involved, and it was really just because
Speaker 4: I saw the work. I saw what she had created
Speaker 4: and literally just flipped a message and said, well done.
Speaker 4: I'm imagine he's going to have a really positive impact
Speaker 4: on the community game and good on you for creating it.
Speaker 4: And she messaged back saying thank you. Would you like
Speaker 4: to be involved in helping get it out there? And
Speaker 4: I just thought, yeah, that's it's a great opportunity. You know,
Speaker 4: I'm happy to do my partner help try and promote
Speaker 4: it and get it out there and hopefully you get
Speaker 4: to a stage where sort of every rugby team in
Speaker 4: New zeal And, right from junior footy all the way up,
Speaker 4: has one on the sideline in case something happens.
Speaker 2: Throughout your rugby career. How much did your understanding of
Speaker 2: concussion change from when you first started playing to when
Speaker 2: you well, I mean you're still playing, but how much
Speaker 2: has it changed across your career?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's changed a lot for sure, and yeah, it
Speaker 4: will change a lot in the next ten years too.
Speaker 4: I think even from when I started out, there was
Speaker 4: still protocols in place, but just our level of understanding
Speaker 4: of it has increased massively, and I think there's been
Speaker 4: real positive steps in the professional game. And we are
Speaker 4: lucky because we've got medical experts on hand to help
Speaker 4: us and navigate the recovery process and make sure we're
Speaker 4: fairly well looked after. But he had the community game.
Speaker 4: We often rely on volunteers and parents to do their best,
Speaker 4: and this kit just allows them like peace of mind
Speaker 4: with some real to your guidelines around what to do.
Speaker 4: And that's all you want for those seventy two hours,
Speaker 4: is to know that you've done everything you can to
Speaker 4: help set someone up for a full recovery.
Speaker 2: It's a physical sport, it's a contact sport. That's the
Speaker 2: attraction for a lot of people who get involved in it.
Speaker 2: How difficult is it as a player to admit that
Speaker 2: you've taken a knock to their head when your instinct
Speaker 2: is just to stay on well, I think it's.
Speaker 4: Two different knocks. If someone's taken a bad one, sometimes
Speaker 4: they're not actually aware that they're not quite right, and
Speaker 4: that's where you do rely on teammates, you know, people
Speaker 4: on the sideline to pick those sort of things up.
Speaker 4: And then there's other knocks where you're not sure or
Speaker 4: you always you say you do know you're not quite right,
Speaker 4: but you know part of you may want to try
Speaker 4: and carry on. And it's it's almost been embedded into
Speaker 4: the rugby culture over years. You know, like if you're
Speaker 4: a little bit injured, you can will play on then
Speaker 4: stay on from back in the days when you know
Speaker 4: a player would never go off and give someone on
Speaker 4: the bench an opportunity. But when it comes to a
Speaker 4: head knock, the bravest and the most greatest thing you
Speaker 4: can do is put your hand up and say no,
Speaker 4: I'm not quite right and take yourself off. Because we
Speaker 4: know from studies it's like taking a knock is one thing,
Speaker 4: but it's to take two blows in one game can
Speaker 4: can be a lot worse. So look, there's been twice,
Speaker 4: I think in my career where I've taken a knock,
Speaker 4: tried to play on for a couple of minutes and
Speaker 4: realized I'm not quite right and put my hand up
Speaker 4: and taken myself off the field. Yes.
Speaker 2: Do you think attitudes among players have changed, have genuinely
Speaker 2: changed or is there still a bit of a tendency
Speaker 2: to as you say, of you know, I'm okay, I've
Speaker 2: taken ahead, I'll play on. Do you think there's still
Speaker 2: a tendency to downplay concussion symptoms in some areas or
Speaker 2: has there been major improvement.
Speaker 4: There's definitely been major improvement. Like it's really hard to
Speaker 4: speak on behalf of everyone, but I know a lot
Speaker 4: personally my attitudes towards it, certainly in the probably second
Speaker 4: half of my career, having seen teammates have had to
Speaker 4: retire from it. And then, yeah, I suppose it's sort
Speaker 4: of a low key advocate, like if I see someone
Speaker 4: take a knock, I'll be one of the first to
Speaker 4: check in and make sure they are a ride or
Speaker 4: alert someone from the sideline. So I think it has changed.
Speaker 4: It's it's always difficult because some players are at different
Speaker 4: stages of their careers. They might be playing for an opportunity,
Speaker 4: they've just got an opportunity, or playing for a contracts,
Speaker 4: all these sort of things, and that's where things can
Speaker 4: be harder for some people. But the more education that
Speaker 4: we've got out there, the more awareness and we create
Speaker 4: around it, then hopefully will continue to trend in the
Speaker 4: right direction.
Speaker 2: I know every parent listening and you're probably the same.
Speaker 2: You know, you want the best for your kids and
Speaker 2: you don't want to put them into into potentially perilous situations,
Speaker 2: but you want them to get involved in sport, and
Speaker 2: rugby is a massive part of our sporting culture. Parents
Speaker 2: I know can sometimes struggle with the decision of whether
Speaker 2: their child should even play rugby or return to the
Speaker 2: sport after they've taken a knock. What is your message
Speaker 2: to rugby mums and dads.
Speaker 4: Well, it's such an amazing sport. Well, sport in general
Speaker 4: is great.
Speaker 1: But.
Speaker 4: The camaraderie that you get from rugby and all the
Speaker 4: life lessons you learn, like there's you could go mountain biking,
Speaker 4: you know, all these different supports and there's always an
Speaker 4: element of risk and you know that and that's part
Speaker 4: of it what makes it fun also as well. But
Speaker 4: I think when it comes to the concussion where people
Speaker 4: shouldn't be scared off by it because a large number
Speaker 4: of cases suffering a concussion. As long as that's treated well,
Speaker 4: it's like any other injury, your body will make a
Speaker 4: can make a full recovery. And that's the important of
Speaker 4: the hip Kat, is that the first seventy two hours
Speaker 4: is really important. There's clear guidelines and if someone does
Speaker 4: stuff for a concussion and you look after them well,
Speaker 4: then there's no reason why they won't make a full recovery.
Speaker 4: So although it's neven nice seeing a concussion or someone
Speaker 4: affected by a blow like that, it's it can As
Speaker 4: long as it's treated, then there's a good chance to
Speaker 4: everyone makes a full recovery. I'd hate for it to
Speaker 4: be the reason it scares people off because the the
Speaker 4: risks that are involved are far outweighed by the benefits
Speaker 4: and the growth that someone is likely to get they
Speaker 4: fall in love with the game, that's the main thing.
Speaker 4: As a peri and I just want my kids to
Speaker 4: be able to fall in love with something a sport,
Speaker 4: an activity or hobby and just really really go after it.
Speaker 4: And if their kids steps Rugby for their kids, then
Speaker 4: yes there's risks involved, absolutely, but there's so much, so
Speaker 4: many benefits as.
Speaker 2: Well well said, Mate, well said, and hit Kid I
Speaker 2: think is going to have a huge, hugely positive effect.
Speaker 2: As you say, on the first seventy two hours after ahead,
Speaker 2: not mate, while I've got your Speaking of physical challenges,
Speaker 2: South Africa, the All Black's over there at the moment.
Speaker 2: You played them sixteen times I think in test matches.
Speaker 2: Were they genuinely the most physically challenging for you?
Speaker 4: Yeah, probably consistently the most physically challenging. I mean, like
Speaker 4: we had veried the early in my career. We had
Speaker 4: some really good wins over them, you know, like that,
Speaker 4: So they're not I think at the start of the games,
Speaker 4: like what the All Blacks are trying to play getting
Speaker 4: back to sort of our would call our rugby DNA,
Speaker 4: a little bit of faster tempo and trying to bring
Speaker 4: a bit of fatigue back into the game. The South
Speaker 4: Africans are like anyone to say, say, get a bit
Speaker 4: of fatigue and the physicality drops off as well. So
Speaker 4: a key, a key for us, I think, and hopefully
Speaker 4: the officials allow a free flying game one of obviously
Speaker 4: I guess the storms wasn't like that, so it didn't.
Speaker 4: It doesn't really allow the fatigue to creep in quite
Speaker 4: the same. But yeah, that physical budget at even you know,
Speaker 4: just yea perkhum and again aren't they And it's in
Speaker 4: those close quarters. You know, collectively, size does matter, so
Speaker 4: it's a good challenge. Though, like I used to love
Speaker 4: playing cert Africans, there's always this.
Speaker 2: Talk about playing at altitude as well. You know, all
Speaker 2: we've got to play at altitude. That's going to be
Speaker 2: it has to be a lot harder, Is that true?
Speaker 4: It is a lot harder. Absolutely. It's the first time
Speaker 4: you play there, I reckon that really catches you off
Speaker 4: guard because you've never experienced anything like it. You feel unfit, yeah,
Speaker 4: throats burning, and you're just wondering if you're going to
Speaker 4: be able to get through. But it's like any thing hard,
Speaker 4: once you've done it once before, been pushed through, you
Speaker 4: know what you're capable of. So I've experienced a few
Speaker 4: times both that almost quite enjoyed playing there because you
Speaker 4: knew it was going to get hard, but you knew
Speaker 4: you could push through. And it's not. Well, the South
Speaker 4: Africans are immune to outsitude either. There's only a small
Speaker 4: group of them that actually live at altitude. You know,
Speaker 4: a lot of them don't even live in South Africa
Speaker 4: these days, play there rugby in Japan or around the world.
Speaker 4: So I don't personally, I don't see it as a big,
Speaker 4: big advantage to them playing at outstude and if anything,
Speaker 4: it may allow a little bit more fatigued to creep
Speaker 4: onto the game. And that's sort of the last ten
Speaker 4: minut of each half. And you know, as all boats,
Speaker 4: we try and back ourselves and execute in those moments
Speaker 4: when keep going. So, yeah, it's hard, but as what
Speaker 4: it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you were part of a lot of memorable
Speaker 2: All Blacks wins in South Africa here at World Cups,
Speaker 2: is there one performance, one All Blacks performance that sort
Speaker 2: of stands out as the blueprint for how to beat
Speaker 2: them particularly over there, perhaps.
Speaker 4: Oh, we had a lot of year. You're right, we
Speaker 4: had some really good wins and a lot of them involved.
Speaker 4: Some of them were at Alice Park, which is at altitude.
Speaker 4: We'll probably the most of the ones that stick outer
Speaker 4: at altitude actually, And same thing, you'd finished the game,
Speaker 4: or we'd have photos and the theme room of previous
Speaker 4: teams and we'd acknowledge teams that had gone before they'd
Speaker 4: finish the game, and just pure exhaustion, like guys, hands
Speaker 4: on knees, crouched over and just reminds you of how
Speaker 4: deep you have to push yourself to win there. But
Speaker 4: to your question around the blueprint, it's as if we're
Speaker 4: it's if we're able to move the ball. As you said,
Speaker 4: that bigger a little bit, bigger body. So if we
Speaker 4: can keep them, keep them moving, keep the ball in play,
Speaker 4: minds the downtime, and I think that that plays into
Speaker 4: our hands a little bit, a little bit of variation
Speaker 4: with how we play our kicking game. If the defense
Speaker 4: is coming up hard in the midfield, We've had a
Speaker 4: bit of success with some kicks in behind. So yeah,
Speaker 4: the blueprint I think, but it's relies a wee on
Speaker 4: the officials as well.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, you're right there, you're right there. How's everything
Speaker 2: going in Japan? You enjoying it?
Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, it's been good. It's soft season at the
Speaker 4: moment back in New Zealand, but you head back in
Speaker 4: about three weeks to start pre season and at three
Speaker 4: and a half months of free season in the heat.
Speaker 4: But yeah, one more year on my contract over there,
Speaker 4: and we'll see we might be certainly getting closer to
Speaker 4: the end.
Speaker 2: All right, We'll keep tabs on that. I've kept you
Speaker 2: from your family for long enough. Sam, congratulations on your
Speaker 2: involvement in hit Kit. I know it's going to have
Speaker 2: a hugely positive impact on a lot of families around
Speaker 2: the country. Thanks for joining us, made always good to chat.
Speaker 4: Thanks finally, thanks for thanks for giving me on to
Speaker 4: chat about it. As you say, I think it can
Speaker 4: really do some awesome stuff and hopefully in sort of
Speaker 4: five years time, it's one of those things that's sort
Speaker 4: of up there beside the first aid kits for most families.
Speaker 4: So yeah, thanks.
Speaker 2: Mate, No, thank you, mate. Sam King joining us on
Speaker 2: News TALKSB and Weekend Sport. Hit Kit is a rapid
Speaker 2: response concussion kit developed by concussion expert Helen Tofui, designed
Speaker 2: to support the critical first seventy two hours after a
Speaker 2: head injury at any level. In the kit, there is
Speaker 2: a step by step recovery guide for days one to three,
Speaker 2: a concussion red flag checklist, an instant ice pack, a
Speaker 2: rapid absorption supplement, and a mini wound care first aid pack.
Speaker 2: All of that is in hit Kit. It's only forty bucks.
Speaker 2: I mean that's pretty good value, right, pretty good value.
Speaker 2: Hit Kit dot en z is where you find out
Speaker 2: more hit Kit dot en z. Great to have Sam
Speaker 2: Kane as an advocate. Incredible, isn't it? You just saw
Speaker 2: Helen to Foy's post about it, thought I'll just flicker
Speaker 2: a note and say congratulations, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: he's an ambassador and an advocate. Not a bad guy
Speaker 2: to have on doing doing that. Tam Kaine is also
Speaker 2: they're giving us the blueprint for beating the spring box.
Speaker 2: Just run them around, run those big buggers around, get
Speaker 2: them tired, induce fatigue. That's how we do it. And
Speaker 2: thankfully Daver, any strategy is based on that. Optimism has
Speaker 2: been the catch cry, hasn't it for dav Andy's All Blacks?
Speaker 2: Quick rock ball, moving it through the hands, getting it wide,
Speaker 2: finding space as Sam mentioned there, and he can perhaps
Speaker 2: do this now that he's not on the All Blacks.
Speaker 2: It does rely a little bit on the officials, and
Speaker 2: yesterday in the tu Ropena there wasn't exactly an officiating
Speaker 2: team that wanted the game to flow necessarily in that game.
Speaker 2: I think that's fair to say. Hopefully it'll be better
Speaker 2: in the Test matches, but I feel after hearing Sam
Speaker 2: Kane talk one hundred test All Black former captain talk
Speaker 2: about how you do it, and he won a lot
Speaker 2: of Test matches over there, sort I crunched the numbers
Speaker 2: on Sam Kine ahead of that interview. He played against
Speaker 2: South Africa sixteen times, won ten of them, and seven
Speaker 2: of those games he played against them were in South
Speaker 2: Africa and he won four, So he was more often
Speaker 2: a winner in South Africa than he was on the
Speaker 2: losing side. Lot more optimistic. How optimistic do you feel
Speaker 2: about this upcoming test series? Yesterday we spoke about about
Speaker 2: yesterday's game. We can touch on that but tonight at
Speaker 2: around ten o'clock. The side to face the Sharks in
Speaker 2: Durban Wednesday morning is named by Dave Rennie, so we'll
Speaker 2: have I think it will almost completely changed side. We'll
Speaker 2: find out and I think we can all pretty much
Speaker 2: name it the shadow side for these test matches. That's
Speaker 2: what he's going to put out against the Sharks in
Speaker 2: Durban on Wednesday.
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