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Speaker 1: Now back home. It's twenty two minutes away from seven

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Speaker 1: more from America by the way, shortly with Richard Arnold.

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Speaker 1: But the old gender pay gap issues back this morning

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Speaker 1: with the news of a new government backed calculator. It

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Speaker 1: replaces the previous government's reportage rasion. Dame Teresa Gatting is

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Speaker 1: with us on this one. Very good morning to you. Oh,

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Speaker 1: good morning, Mike Brigan warn congratulations on your award the

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Speaker 1: other day too, by the way, that must have been

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Speaker 1: quite something.

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Speaker 2: So much it was. It was really special.

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Speaker 1: Now the role of if you had to choose between

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Speaker 1: reportage and a calculator, do either of them solve the problem?

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Speaker 1: And if you favored one, which is it?

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Speaker 2: Okay? Well, I was actually at the group of business

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Speaker 2: leaders in Willington, Use today when Minister Upston announced this,

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Speaker 2: and it was very well received. So they're lenked, Mike.

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Speaker 2: That's not a real question as to choosing that because

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Speaker 2: why is this important? Why was the government announce well

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Speaker 2: received yesterday? Because all the CEOs in that room were

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Speaker 2: grappling with measuring their gender pay gaps and what to

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Speaker 2: do about it when they knew what it was. And

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Speaker 2: this isn't some sort of peace nonsense. The context of

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Speaker 2: that meeting was led by Ois and Andrews, CEO Transpound

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Speaker 2: James Cortico Powerco. It was how do we supercharge the

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Speaker 2: electricity industry, which is one of those industries when used

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Speaker 2: in is world leading and where it could absolutely drive

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Speaker 2: the economy even more. And one of the things they're

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Speaker 2: grappling with is that there's not enough woman in that industry.

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Speaker 2: It's very well dominated. So they let a sector review

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Speaker 2: looking at what to do. The first thing they did,

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Speaker 2: but one of the first things was measured the gender

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Speaker 2: pay gap, which in their industry is twenty percent. So

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Speaker 2: all the seas and are rumor grappling with this, but

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Speaker 2: they're all doing it a different way. And so this

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Speaker 2: tool is very working with business. It's not just a

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Speaker 2: government thing doing it to us. It's working with business.

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Speaker 2: It's actually going to help all those companies, all those

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Speaker 2: CEOs are already doing it and make it easier for

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Speaker 2: others who want to report as well.

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Speaker 1: Where's the artificiality line? In other words, and trying to

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Speaker 1: close the gap. You do things for women based on gender,

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Speaker 1: not on skills or developmental growth, all the things you'd

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Speaker 1: normally operate.

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Speaker 2: Under no there's no ceo in the room who would

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Speaker 2: you know, there's no ceo who would sign up to that.

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Speaker 2: They're doing it because they believe it's going to be

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Speaker 2: the best thing for their shareholders, for their staff, for

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Speaker 2: their companies. There isn't really artificiality about it. It's Antony

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Speaker 2: Watson spoke yesterday about human behavior in the course of

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Speaker 2: a year. Men are more likely to push for highest

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Speaker 2: salaries to be offered other jobs elsewhere and say, well,

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Speaker 2: I'll only staff I get more money. Women don't tend

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Speaker 2: to do that. So she was talking about the fact

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Speaker 2: that they now do midterm reviews to make sure that

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Speaker 2: women aren't disadvantages the year goes on. Those are real

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Speaker 2: issues for companies, they're not sort of some artificiality.

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Speaker 1: How much of it's unconscious that is not? Yes, so

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Speaker 1: that's real.

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Speaker 2: You're right, that's real. That was measured that Zella measured

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Speaker 2: that a few years ago working with the Mystery of Woman,

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Speaker 2: and quite a bit of it was unconscious bias. Some

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Speaker 2: people don't believe that it exists. But even if you

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Speaker 2: don't believe that exists, a good chunk of a gender

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Speaker 2: pay gap is unexplained. Doesn't all relate to women taking

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Speaker 2: time out of the workforce to have children, for example.

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Speaker 1: Is eight point six. That's hard to close.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's been stubborn. It's been like that since twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 2: so that's pretty stubborn in my book. Most of them,

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Speaker 2: our whole lives looked different from when they did in

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Speaker 2: twenty eighteen. But oh no, a gender pay gaps still

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Speaker 2: around nine percent.

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Speaker 1: Nice to talk to you, Teresa, Have a good weekend,

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Speaker 1: Teresa getting a New Zealand businesswoman. Of course.

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Speaker 2: For more from the my Casking Breakfast, listen live to

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