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Speaker 1: So the Andrew Costa saga, as you're well aware, has

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Speaker 1: come to a conclusion. We have a resignation and an apology.

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Speaker 1: It follows the IPCA review into the handling of them

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Speaker 1: skimming complaints of Brian Wroach as the Public Services Commissioner,

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Speaker 1: of course, and it is back with us. Good morning

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Speaker 1: to you, Good morning. Was this a time play on

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Speaker 1: your partner which you were looking to direct him to

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Speaker 1: where he got?

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Speaker 2: I think it was just a process. He finally got

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Speaker 2: to the point many others had got to. I think

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Speaker 2: he's got to the right place. It top three weeks,

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Speaker 2: which was longer than some of us would of liked,

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Speaker 2: but it was important we got the right outcome, and

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Speaker 2: I think we have.

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Speaker 1: How was the ball in his court?

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Speaker 2: Ultimately? I had decision rights, but he also had decision rights.

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Speaker 2: He exercised those before I had to do anything else.

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Speaker 1: Was he aware you would ob sacked him.

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Speaker 2: I think it was very key for him that that

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Speaker 2: was a likely outcome.

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Speaker 1: So you at no point you said, listen, mate, I'd

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Speaker 1: like you to just write a letter and be nice

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Speaker 1: about it. If you can't, I'm going to sack you.

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Speaker 1: So nothing like that was ever exchange.

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Speaker 2: We didn't. We didn't do that. But you know, he

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Speaker 2: has spent a lot of time considering his position and

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Speaker 2: what defense, if any, he had, And I think his

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Speaker 2: public statements are very clear that he's taken a very difficult,

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Speaker 2: but I think appropriate decision. He's accepted responsibility, express regret,

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Speaker 2: and apologized he's lost his job. I'm really not sure

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Speaker 2: what more he could do.

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Speaker 1: Did he move ground significantly? I was told early on

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Speaker 1: he was, if not a ghast at it, certainly surprised.

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Speaker 1: He couldn't work out what he'd done wrong. Was that fair?

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Speaker 2: I think it's for him a little while to learn

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Speaker 2: the magnitude. But he is not a stupid person or

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Speaker 2: in any form of denial. It just he absorbed the

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Speaker 2: IPCA report, as he said, he was shocked when he

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Speaker 2: read the totality of what went on.

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Speaker 1: The apology in his wording, is that all him?

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Speaker 2: It's him and me? I think he those words are

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Speaker 2: his words, are not my words. But I strongly endorse

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Speaker 2: what he's done, and I think it shows an accountability

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Speaker 2: in action. We don't see a lot of it.

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Speaker 1: No, I was just what I want to know, is

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Speaker 1: he genuine in the apology. I mean, he's come to

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Speaker 1: a conclusion that he's genuinely sorry. He genuinely made a mistake,

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Speaker 1: and you know he's going to lessen here.

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Speaker 2: All my experiences of Anti Costa, he's a very genuine person,

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Speaker 2: he's very sincere, and he has got real courage. I

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Speaker 2: absolutely believe what he said.

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Speaker 1: He believes right now that you've dispensed with this, and

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Speaker 1: I presume you're going on holiday, where's this reorganization of

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Speaker 1: the public service got to while you've been handling all

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Speaker 1: this nonsense.

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Speaker 2: It's progressing. We still have a plan, which I've talked

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Speaker 2: about publicly. Ultimately it will be a matter for decision

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Speaker 2: by ministers. But I'm strongly of the view that we

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Speaker 2: have too many entities. We could do the same amount

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Speaker 2: of work with less entities. We could remove duplication, adop technology.

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Speaker 2: I believe it's a really strong story for those who

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Speaker 2: work in the public.

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Speaker 1: Good good good. When's it all going to happen?

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Speaker 2: I would like to start early next year if I could,

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Speaker 2: but this will take three to five years. It's not

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Speaker 2: an overnight thing. It doesn't need to be. But if

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Speaker 2: we don't move now, our options will become less and less.

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Speaker 2: I think that's to the detriment of the taxpath.

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Speaker 1: Good stuff. Nice to talk to you, Brian go Well.

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Speaker 1: Subrian writes Public Services Commissioned. For more from the mic

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Speaker 1: Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks. It'd be from

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