Speaker 1: Kiota.
Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and This is the Front Page, a
Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by.
Speaker 3: The New Zealand Herald.
Speaker 2: New details have emerged about what could be happening behind
Speaker 2: the scenes at Gloria Vale. Authorities have been quietly involved
Speaker 2: in yet another investigation there, with the Children's Minister and
Speaker 2: Uraga Tamariki both involved.
Speaker 3: This time a mass allegation.
Speaker 2: Investigation relates to concerns that parents were taught to cover
Speaker 2: the mouths of children and babies to stop them from crying.
Speaker 3: Ends At Herald's senior.
Speaker 2: Investigative reporter, Michael Morra has been digging into this and
Speaker 2: he joins us now on the Front Page. First off, Michael,
Speaker 2: I know in this day and age, you'd be pretty
Speaker 2: hard pressed to find someone who doesn't know what Glory
Speaker 2: is Val is. But how would you explain it to
Speaker 2: someone who just didn't know anything about it?
Speaker 4: I guess it's a secretive sect on the west coast
Speaker 4: of the South Island. It's a fundamentalist Christian community. They
Speaker 4: have a very male dominated leadership structure. Women don't really
Speaker 4: have the same rights or leadership roles as the men
Speaker 4: who there's the overseeing shepherd and then the Shepherds do.
Speaker 4: They have a very shared sense of belonging and they
Speaker 4: promote large families. They have struck protocols on what you
Speaker 4: can dress. They also do not like influence from the
Speaker 4: outside world, which is seen as evil, and their world
Speaker 4: is seen as following Jesus Christ and what he would do.
Speaker 3: How many people are there?
Speaker 5: Do? We know?
Speaker 4: About six hundred members at Gloria Vale currently.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: And a lot of kids.
Speaker 4: Yes, mostly children, So the population of Gloria Vale is
Speaker 4: mainly made up of young people.
Speaker 2: Tell me about how you first learned that there might
Speaker 2: be another investigation happening behind the scenes at Gloriavale and
Speaker 2: what are those allegations.
Speaker 4: So I've just started doing some investigative work into Gloria Vale,
Speaker 4: and part of that involved filing some Official Information Act
Speaker 4: requests with the Children's Minister, Karen Shaw. As part of
Speaker 4: that request, I sought updates and ministerial briefings. I essentially,
Speaker 4: as a journalist, wanted to know what precisely was going
Speaker 4: on at Gloria Vale right now in twenty twenty five,
Speaker 4: and what had the minister advised been advised was going on.
Speaker 4: What I learned is that police and udoing a Tamaiki
Speaker 4: have quietly been conducting what they term a mass allegation
Speaker 4: investigation at Gloria Vale. This has involved more than one
Speaker 4: hundred interviews with parents children who are current residents of Glorivale,
Speaker 4: as well as some former residents or leavers of Gloriavale.
Speaker 4: This started this investigation in November last year and it's
Speaker 4: now been complete. And what I've learned from the documents
Speaker 4: is that this investigation was carried out as a result
Speaker 4: of concerns that came out in the Royal Abuse and
Speaker 4: Care Inquiry. Now that Abuse and Care Inquiry obviously heard
Speaker 4: from lawyers and former residents of Gloriavale about the abuse
Speaker 4: and harm they say occurred during their time within this community,
Speaker 4: and it was that information which prompted this mass allegation investigation.
Speaker 4: Now what exactly was it all about, Well, one aspect
Speaker 4: and it hasn't really been covered much at all in
Speaker 4: the media in terms of what the Commission heard was
Speaker 4: that there was a practice at Gloria Vail that Founder
Speaker 4: Hopeful Christian essentially taught and encouraged, and that was if
Speaker 4: a child is crying or upset or making noise, there
Speaker 4: is a method to stop that and it should be
Speaker 4: encouraged because it's disciplining a child, and parents who discipline
Speaker 4: their children and who have well behaved children at Gloria
Speaker 4: Vale are given the big tick that they're doing well.
Speaker 4: And that method to quiet and children was to put
Speaker 4: your hand over the baby or child's mouth and knows
Speaker 4: so that they would not cry anymore. Now, obviously that
Speaker 4: is incredibly dangerous. However, I have spoken to former Gloria
Speaker 4: Vail residents who told me parents were never told of
Speaker 4: the risks of this to a child. It was all
Speaker 4: about discipline and they were taught these techniques, which is
Speaker 4: hand over mouth to prevent a child from crying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you've spoken to at least one former
Speaker 2: Glory of Our resident, Virginia Courage. I saw what she
Speaker 2: said about her experiences there as a parent.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 4: Her comments in my story out on enzid hero dot
Speaker 4: co dot nz this morning verifies what the Royal Commission
Speaker 4: into Abuse and Care heard, And what the Commission heard
Speaker 4: was that quote. Several former residents reported seeing children and
Speaker 4: infants turning blue after they had been essentially suffocated by
Speaker 4: their pearents when they were crying. Virginia Courage told me
Speaker 4: that about two thousand and fourteen, she was in a meeting.
Speaker 4: This was a married couple's meeting, and during that meeting,
Speaker 4: Hopeful Christian and another person who she says was some
Speaker 4: sort of medical authority within Gloria Vale, even though he
Speaker 4: had no medical training whatsoever, spoke about this technique and
Speaker 4: said not to worry about asphyxiation and that the child
Speaker 4: who would go quiet would still be able to breathe
Speaker 4: because they would just then relax. But it was about
Speaker 4: teaching them discipline, and so her comments was that she
Speaker 4: saw children turning blue in her time. She also said
Speaker 4: to me that she had to on one occasion, and
Speaker 4: this was in two thousand and six. Between the two
Speaker 4: thousand and six and two thousand and eight, she was
Speaker 4: brought a baby who was limp and in the arms
Speaker 4: of her father, and she was asked to resuscitate the baby,
Speaker 4: which she did. Of course, Virginia, as a woman in
Speaker 4: Gloria Vale, did not make a fuss about this, did
Speaker 4: not say to the father, what are you doing, because
Speaker 4: women and saying something like that too a man in
Speaker 4: Gloriavale is frowned upon. She told me she was horrified
Speaker 4: and terrified by the practice and the fact that it
Speaker 4: was being taught and she said to her husband, they
Speaker 4: would never do that to their children. But she recalls
Speaker 4: growing up in Gloria Vale, she saw it happen regularly
Speaker 4: to other children and she saw children kids plural go
Speaker 4: blue when this occurred.
Speaker 2: An outsider might look in and say, well, these children
Speaker 2: are being exploited.
Speaker 5: They talk nonsense, They talk nonsense. These children are growing
Speaker 5: up learning now to take responsibility. They're not going to
Speaker 5: go on the doll We will find work for people,
Speaker 5: and if they can't work for some reason, we will
Speaker 5: look after them. I believe that God's given me a
Speaker 5: job to do and that's why we start the community
Speaker 5: and whatever that meant to do that or done it.
Speaker 3: So what else have the documents revealed? What does the
Speaker 3: Children's minister know about this?
Speaker 4: So I've spoken to Karen Chaw. She was quite reluctant
Speaker 4: to go into specifics about this investigation. But what we
Speaker 4: do know from police or maybe I'll just mentioned the
Speaker 4: police action first on this, because that's quite important here.
Speaker 4: The police have carried out this investigation that's now complete
Speaker 4: and they have issued two formal warnings to to residents
Speaker 4: at Gloria Vale and they are also doing what they're
Speaker 4: calling techniques. They're giving parents techniques on how to deal
Speaker 4: with various childhood behaviors and scenarios. So that's the official
Speaker 4: action that police and udong A Tamadiki have taken. Two
Speaker 4: formal warnings and then education and advice. Now the minister
Speaker 4: says that's a good positive step because her team, who
Speaker 4: she says she has recently increased resources for in Graymouth,
Speaker 4: are going in there regularly and are advising parents about
Speaker 4: what you should and shouldn't do when you have a
Speaker 4: child or baby. So she says that's a good start,
Speaker 4: you know, will it Lee? I said to her, well,
Speaker 4: you know, will this actually result in change? And she said, well, look,
Speaker 4: it may not change the entire world, but it's a start,
Speaker 4: is what she said. I also asked her, in light
Speaker 4: of these this evidence and these investigations and what the
Speaker 4: Royal Commission has already found, should Gloria Vale still be
Speaker 4: functioning in twenty twenty And she said to me that
Speaker 4: she would not offer her personal opinion on the state
Speaker 4: of Gloriavale, but that under her watch, her job was
Speaker 4: to ensure that children were safe and that's what she
Speaker 4: would do and she said that if police or audoing
Speaker 4: A Tamadeki learned that children were being harmed in Gloria Vale,
Speaker 4: it's her expectation that they would be removed from that community.
Speaker 4: And she's quite adamant that her team in there regularly
Speaker 4: doing the best job that they can. They've been properly
Speaker 4: resourced to do that job, and she's keeping a very
Speaker 4: close eye on this situation. What does regular mean, I
Speaker 4: think regular means weekly, So audong A Tamadiki are going
Speaker 4: in there weekly to check on things that are happening there.
Speaker 4: Just in terms of a little bit of a background
Speaker 4: as well to this mass allegation investigation to give you
Speaker 4: a bit of a stare on just how significant this was.
Speaker 4: Ordering a Tamadiki between October twenty twenty four and August
Speaker 4: this year received so that's eleven months, they received eighty
Speaker 4: one reports of concern from within the glory of our community.
Speaker 4: So this really gives you, Chelsea, a pretty strong indication
Speaker 4: of just how problematic things have been. So these reports
Speaker 4: of concern, the eighty one sixty of those reports have
Speaker 4: concerned related to this mass allegation investigation, which of course,
Speaker 4: was this practice or technique or method of covering up
Speaker 4: a child or babies airways when they are upset or crying.
Speaker 4: So that is the result of the investigation so far,
Speaker 4: these formal warnings from police and the education and advice
Speaker 4: being offered.
Speaker 3: Who else have you spoken to about this?
Speaker 4: Spoken to lawyer Brian Henry. You may remember Brian Henry's name.
Speaker 3: He is, Yeah, he's been in court before.
Speaker 4: Run yep, yep. He has. In fact, he led to
Speaker 4: landmark cases which were successful in the Employment Court which
Speaker 4: determined that his clients, former Gloriavale residents were in fact
Speaker 4: employees at Gloria Vale, not volunteers. During that those court
Speaker 4: cases he effectively we didn't effectively, he did state that
Speaker 4: essentially Gloria Vale was operating off the back of slave
Speaker 4: labor and child labor in some instances. So that is
Speaker 4: what the Employment Court heard and they agreed with him.
Speaker 4: And there has been various reparations that Gloriavale has had
Speaker 4: to pay out as a result of that. So Brian
Speaker 4: Henry has essentially been spearheading action against Gloria Vale. He
Speaker 4: was scathing of the action taken by police and of
Speaker 4: the comments of the Children's Minister Karen Chaw in this instance.
Speaker 4: In his words, he says, this practice of handover mouth
Speaker 4: amounts to suffocating a child and it is, in his words,
Speaker 4: a very very serious crime. In his words, it's also
Speaker 4: very very violent. And he's highly critical of the minister,
Speaker 4: telling me that how can she sit back in Wellington
Speaker 4: and say that she's reassured that everything is okay in
Speaker 4: Gloria Vail when we know that it's still operating, and
Speaker 4: when we know that this sort of thing has been
Speaker 4: going on. He also points out that doing things like
Speaker 4: issuing warnings or offering education and advice to leaders at
Speaker 4: Gloria Vail, in his mind, will not lead to change
Speaker 4: because don't forget, Gloria Vail is community whereby they all
Speaker 4: listen to the shepherds, and the overseeing shepherd they call
Speaker 4: the shots. It's not police or auditing a tamadiki who
Speaker 4: they necessarily listen to. That's what he says. That's what
Speaker 4: Brian Henry says anyway, So he is deeply skeptical about
Speaker 4: whether these formal warnings and education are being dished out
Speaker 4: by police and ordering a tamadeki is going to lead
Speaker 4: to lasting change because of the extent of control and
Speaker 4: manipulation that has been visited on the people of Gloriaval
Speaker 4: for many, many decades.
Speaker 3: It sounds like he would rather Gloriaval ended.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean exactly, and he's said that to me,
Speaker 4: you know, during our interview that how can the Minister
Speaker 4: say that we're doing all we can to ensure these
Speaker 4: children are safe when Gloria Vale is still operating. That's
Speaker 4: the fundamental problem here is that Gloria Vale is still
Speaker 4: in the existence in twenty twenty five. He says, this
Speaker 4: government and consecutive governments have failed to do anything about Gloria.
Speaker 3: Vale for decades.
Speaker 4: For fifty years, Chelsea, Yeah, this is how long it's
Speaker 4: been going on for. And we know leaders like Hopeful
Speaker 4: Christian was a convicted sex offender. We know there's been
Speaker 4: multiple cases brook before the courts where sexual assault on
Speaker 4: young people has been proven and police have been involved
Speaker 4: in that. So he is deeply skeptical of the minister's
Speaker 4: reassurances and invites her to go and talk to some
Speaker 4: of the leaders of Gloria Vale to understand the gravity
Speaker 4: and the seriousness of the current situation.
Speaker 3: And so what would you say to them and Glory
Speaker 3: about it.
Speaker 2: Genuinely skiered and don't know what's out there in the
Speaker 2: outside world.
Speaker 1: I would say to them that the world is so
Speaker 1: bigger than so much bigger than Glorovale, and like it's
Speaker 1: okay to ask questions, and life is more than just survivant,
Speaker 1: like God put us on this earth to have imaginations
Speaker 1: and to have hobbies and to live and enjoy it,
Speaker 1: not just survive. And life can be fun. It doesn't
Speaker 1: just have to be work work, work, and you can
Speaker 1: ask questions, you can be you, and being you's okay.
Speaker 3: Has Gloria Vail responded to any of this, Yes.
Speaker 4: So they have come back to me, and in an
Speaker 4: email attributed to a community spokesperson, they tell me that
Speaker 4: the members of Gloria Vail uphold the national expectations of
Speaker 4: safety for children in New Zealand. They also point out
Speaker 4: that since twenty sixteen there have been education programs within
Speaker 4: Gloria Vail on safe parenting and child safety awareness, and
Speaker 4: that since twenty sixteen these education processes have quote progressively
Speaker 4: been embedded. They also talk about the mass allegation investigation
Speaker 4: in the community spokesperson told me that there was a
Speaker 4: significant percentage of internal reporting that had taken place by
Speaker 4: parents self reporting, which is how Adongo Tamadiki may have
Speaker 4: become aware of this issue. They say that there were
Speaker 4: two formal warnings issued by police. One was the result
Speaker 4: of a parent self reporting and the other allegation was denied.
Speaker 4: The spokesburses says neither allegation involved a member while in
Speaker 4: a professional role and that neither allegation led to further action.
Speaker 4: But just to confirm, they have said that it was
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty four that police and OT held a
Speaker 4: meeting with parents and leaders and were quote very clearly
Speaker 4: told of the emotional and physical dangers of restricting the
Speaker 4: airway in young people. Essentially, what Gloria Vale is telling
Speaker 4: me is that they have taken on board this meeting
Speaker 4: when police turned up and OT turned up and said, hey,
Speaker 4: look you can't restrict a child's airways. They've taken that
Speaker 4: on board and they have been implementing these changes over
Speaker 4: many years now. Of course, when you get a statement
Speaker 4: like this as a journalist and it says that education
Speaker 4: programs have been progressively embedded, I then went back to
Speaker 4: Gloriavale and said, well, what does that mean? Does that
Speaker 4: mean that this is still possibly happening, And the response
Speaker 4: I got was, to my knowledge, no parents are practic this.
Speaker 4: So I guess that's the reassurance from Gloria Vale is
Speaker 4: that this is not happening anymore. It was hardly what
Speaker 4: I would say a compelling green light that all is well.
Speaker 4: But I think what is important here, Chelsea, is that
Speaker 4: it was the Royal Commission who unearthed this information about
Speaker 4: children having their airways restricted. Was it the leaders at
Speaker 4: Gloria Vale who volunteered and said, hey, guys, we just
Speaker 4: realized we've been doing this and it might not be
Speaker 4: the best way to treat kids. Was it Gloria of
Speaker 4: our leaders who who offered up this information to police
Speaker 4: or authorities?
Speaker 1: No, it was not.
Speaker 4: It was leavers. It was former residents who told police
Speaker 4: in OT and the Commission about what happened. And it
Speaker 4: is on that basis that police and OT have begun
Speaker 4: this investigation.
Speaker 3: How confident are you that this practice has ended?
Speaker 4: Well, look, I'm not in Gloria Vale. I haven't been
Speaker 4: down there for some time. I have spoken to people
Speaker 4: at Gloria Vale because I would like to go down
Speaker 4: and catch up with the new overseeing shepherd who's been
Speaker 4: put in charge of the place. But I don't know
Speaker 4: is the answer. You know, it depends on who you asked.
Speaker 4: You know, I suspect that some would believe it. Of course,
Speaker 4: is still going on because as I've said, these sorts
Speaker 4: of practices and techniques, just like you have to dress
Speaker 4: like this, and just like we have this structure of
Speaker 4: men in charge and women are not. You listen to
Speaker 4: the leadership. The leadership are in total control and you
Speaker 4: have to abide by what they say. And this form
Speaker 4: of discipline for children while brought in recommended and endorsed
Speaker 4: by Hopeful Christian, the founder of Gloria Vale. But look,
Speaker 4: we have to also listen to what the minister is
Speaker 4: saying here, listen to what police and ot have done.
Speaker 4: This is not a small investigation. This is a huge,
Speaker 4: months long investigation. More than one hundred interviews have taken place,
Speaker 4: and they say that they have they're now and there
Speaker 4: making sure parents are aware of parenting techniques and how
Speaker 4: to treat their children. And of course we have Gloria
Speaker 4: Vale saying that you know, they have been implementing these
Speaker 4: child safety programs since about twenty sixteen, and they have
Speaker 4: also told me that to their knowledge, no parents are
Speaker 4: practicing this anymore, so look, it depends on who you ask.
Speaker 4: We've been told that it's not happening anymore, so I think,
Speaker 4: you know, we have to I don't have any evidence
Speaker 4: that it is still going on at Gloriavale at the.
Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us, Michael Pleasure.
Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
Speaker 2: at enzidherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
Speaker 2: produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also
Speaker 2: our editor.
Speaker 3: I'm Chelsea Daniels.
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