WEBVTT - Inside Gloriavale’s latest investigation into child discipline practice 0:00:05.559 --> 0:00:06.000 Kiota. 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:09.160 I'm Chelsea Daniels and This is the Front Page, a 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:11.440 daily podcast presented by. 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:12.559 The New Zealand Herald. 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:19.520 New details have emerged about what could be happening behind 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:24.160 the scenes at Gloria Vale. Authorities have been quietly involved 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:28.720 in yet another investigation there, with the Children's Minister and 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:30.800 Uraga Tamariki both involved. 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:33.240 This time a mass allegation. 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:38.560 Investigation relates to concerns that parents were taught to cover 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:42.559 the mouths of children and babies to stop them from crying. 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:44.519 Ends At Herald's senior. 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:48.360 Investigative reporter, Michael Morra has been digging into this and 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:54.960 he joins us now on the Front Page. First off, Michael, 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:57.080 I know in this day and age, you'd be pretty 0:00:57.120 --> 0:00:59.920 hard pressed to find someone who doesn't know what Glory 0:00:59.960 --> 0:01:02.400 is Val is. But how would you explain it to 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:04.319 someone who just didn't know anything about it? 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:08.880 I guess it's a secretive sect on the west coast 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:13.800 of the South Island. It's a fundamentalist Christian community. They 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:20.279 have a very male dominated leadership structure. Women don't really 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:23.640 have the same rights or leadership roles as the men 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:26.720 who there's the overseeing shepherd and then the Shepherds do. 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:31.759 They have a very shared sense of belonging and they 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:35.679 promote large families. They have struck protocols on what you 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:40.360 can dress. They also do not like influence from the 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:44.639 outside world, which is seen as evil, and their world 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:48.520 is seen as following Jesus Christ and what he would do. 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:50.200 How many people are there? 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:50.640 Do? We know? 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:54.240 About six hundred members at Gloria Vale currently. 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:54.920 Wow. 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:56.560 And a lot of kids. 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:02.240 Yes, mostly children, So the population of Gloria Vale is 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:05.160 mainly made up of young people. 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:07.360 Tell me about how you first learned that there might 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:11.200 be another investigation happening behind the scenes at Gloriavale and 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:12.399 what are those allegations. 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:17.320 So I've just started doing some investigative work into Gloria Vale, 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:21.079 and part of that involved filing some Official Information Act 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:27.560 requests with the Children's Minister, Karen Shaw. As part of 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:31.880 that request, I sought updates and ministerial briefings. I essentially, 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:37.200 as a journalist, wanted to know what precisely was going 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:40.080 on at Gloria Vale right now in twenty twenty five, 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:43.840 and what had the minister advised been advised was going on. 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:48.480 What I learned is that police and udoing a Tamaiki 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:53.000 have quietly been conducting what they term a mass allegation 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:58.080 investigation at Gloria Vale. This has involved more than one 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:04.359 hundred interviews with parents children who are current residents of Glorivale, 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:09.480 as well as some former residents or leavers of Gloriavale. 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:14.799 This started this investigation in November last year and it's 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:18.960 now been complete. And what I've learned from the documents 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:22.760 is that this investigation was carried out as a result 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:27.720 of concerns that came out in the Royal Abuse and 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:33.000 Care Inquiry. Now that Abuse and Care Inquiry obviously heard 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:39.160 from lawyers and former residents of Gloriavale about the abuse 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:45.360 and harm they say occurred during their time within this community, 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:53.120 and it was that information which prompted this mass allegation investigation. 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:56.520 Now what exactly was it all about, Well, one aspect 0:03:56.680 --> 0:04:00.320 and it hasn't really been covered much at all in 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:04.720 the media in terms of what the Commission heard was 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:09.680 that there was a practice at Gloria Vail that Founder 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:17.280 Hopeful Christian essentially taught and encouraged, and that was if 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:21.280 a child is crying or upset or making noise, there 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:25.080 is a method to stop that and it should be 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:29.800 encouraged because it's disciplining a child, and parents who discipline 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:33.080 their children and who have well behaved children at Gloria 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:36.080 Vale are given the big tick that they're doing well. 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:39.799 And that method to quiet and children was to put 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:45.480 your hand over the baby or child's mouth and knows 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:49.640 so that they would not cry anymore. Now, obviously that 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:55.600 is incredibly dangerous. However, I have spoken to former Gloria 0:04:55.680 --> 0:05:00.440 Vail residents who told me parents were never told of 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:04.520 the risks of this to a child. It was all 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:10.520 about discipline and they were taught these techniques, which is 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:13.280 hand over mouth to prevent a child from crying. 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:17.039 Yeah, I mean you've spoken to at least one former 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:21.080 Glory of Our resident, Virginia Courage. I saw what she 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:24.200 said about her experiences there as a parent. 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:25.920 Well. 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:30.360 Her comments in my story out on enzid hero dot 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:35.360 co dot nz this morning verifies what the Royal Commission 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:40.760 into Abuse and Care heard, And what the Commission heard 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:47.760 was that quote. Several former residents reported seeing children and 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:53.960 infants turning blue after they had been essentially suffocated by 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:58.120 their pearents when they were crying. Virginia Courage told me 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:07.679 that about two thousand and fourteen, she was in a meeting. 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:12.200 This was a married couple's meeting, and during that meeting, 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:15.760 Hopeful Christian and another person who she says was some 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:19.120 sort of medical authority within Gloria Vale, even though he 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:24.680 had no medical training whatsoever, spoke about this technique and 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:29.360 said not to worry about asphyxiation and that the child 0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:31.760 who would go quiet would still be able to breathe 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:34.440 because they would just then relax. But it was about 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:38.640 teaching them discipline, and so her comments was that she 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:44.520 saw children turning blue in her time. She also said 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:48.599 to me that she had to on one occasion, and 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:51.000 this was in two thousand and six. Between the two 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:53.479 thousand and six and two thousand and eight, she was 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:57.960 brought a baby who was limp and in the arms 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:03.440 of her father, and she was asked to resuscitate the baby, 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:08.120 which she did. Of course, Virginia, as a woman in 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:11.360 Gloria Vale, did not make a fuss about this, did 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:14.680 not say to the father, what are you doing, because 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:19.040 women and saying something like that too a man in 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:22.520 Gloriavale is frowned upon. She told me she was horrified 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:27.440 and terrified by the practice and the fact that it 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:31.040 was being taught and she said to her husband, they 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:34.160 would never do that to their children. But she recalls 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:38.000 growing up in Gloria Vale, she saw it happen regularly 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:42.480 to other children and she saw children kids plural go 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:43.960 blue when this occurred. 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:52.840 An outsider might look in and say, well, these children 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:53.840 are being exploited. 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:57.880 They talk nonsense, They talk nonsense. These children are growing 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:02.120 up learning now to take responsibility. They're not going to 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:05.040 go on the doll We will find work for people, 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:07.960 and if they can't work for some reason, we will 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:10.760 look after them. I believe that God's given me a 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:13.680 job to do and that's why we start the community 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:17.640 and whatever that meant to do that or done it. 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:23.200 So what else have the documents revealed? What does the 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:25.120 Children's minister know about this? 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:29.360 So I've spoken to Karen Chaw. She was quite reluctant 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:34.959 to go into specifics about this investigation. But what we 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:39.440 do know from police or maybe I'll just mentioned the 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:42.400 police action first on this, because that's quite important here. 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:47.160 The police have carried out this investigation that's now complete 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:52.199 and they have issued two formal warnings to to residents 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:55.640 at Gloria Vale and they are also doing what they're 0:08:56.160 --> 0:09:01.680 calling techniques. They're giving parents techniques on how to deal 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:07.439 with various childhood behaviors and scenarios. So that's the official 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:11.920 action that police and udong A Tamadiki have taken. Two 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:16.320 formal warnings and then education and advice. Now the minister 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:21.080 says that's a good positive step because her team, who 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:25.760 she says she has recently increased resources for in Graymouth, 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:29.440 are going in there regularly and are advising parents about 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:32.880 what you should and shouldn't do when you have a 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:36.040 child or baby. So she says that's a good start, 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:38.760 you know, will it Lee? I said to her, well, 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:43.000 you know, will this actually result in change? And she said, well, look, 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:46.520 it may not change the entire world, but it's a start, 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:49.640 is what she said. I also asked her, in light 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:54.640 of these this evidence and these investigations and what the 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:57.840 Royal Commission has already found, should Gloria Vale still be 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:01.360 functioning in twenty twenty And she said to me that 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:03.840 she would not offer her personal opinion on the state 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:07.200 of Gloriavale, but that under her watch, her job was 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:09.600 to ensure that children were safe and that's what she 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:13.240 would do and she said that if police or audoing 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:17.200 A Tamadeki learned that children were being harmed in Gloria Vale, 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:21.600 it's her expectation that they would be removed from that community. 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:26.760 And she's quite adamant that her team in there regularly 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:30.280 doing the best job that they can. They've been properly 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:33.280 resourced to do that job, and she's keeping a very 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:39.160 close eye on this situation. What does regular mean, I 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:43.040 think regular means weekly, So audong A Tamadiki are going 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:48.360 in there weekly to check on things that are happening there. 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:50.760 Just in terms of a little bit of a background 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:54.000 as well to this mass allegation investigation to give you 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:58.040 a bit of a stare on just how significant this was. 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:04.640 Ordering a Tamadiki between October twenty twenty four and August 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:09.200 this year received so that's eleven months, they received eighty 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:14.359 one reports of concern from within the glory of our community. 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:20.439 So this really gives you, Chelsea, a pretty strong indication 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:27.920 of just how problematic things have been. So these reports 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:33.120 of concern, the eighty one sixty of those reports have 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:37.319 concerned related to this mass allegation investigation, which of course, 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:41.520 was this practice or technique or method of covering up 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:46.600 a child or babies airways when they are upset or crying. 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:50.720 So that is the result of the investigation so far, 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:54.559 these formal warnings from police and the education and advice 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:55.200 being offered. 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:57.600 Who else have you spoken to about this? 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:03.680 Spoken to lawyer Brian Henry. You may remember Brian Henry's name. 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:05.839 He is, Yeah, he's been in court before. 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:09.360 Run yep, yep. He has. In fact, he led to 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:15.640 landmark cases which were successful in the Employment Court which 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:22.040 determined that his clients, former Gloriavale residents were in fact 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:28.839 employees at Gloria Vale, not volunteers. During that those court 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:33.560 cases he effectively we didn't effectively, he did state that 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:38.440 essentially Gloria Vale was operating off the back of slave 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:42.520 labor and child labor in some instances. So that is 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:45.360 what the Employment Court heard and they agreed with him. 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:48.920 And there has been various reparations that Gloriavale has had 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:51.680 to pay out as a result of that. So Brian 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:57.440 Henry has essentially been spearheading action against Gloria Vale. He 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:02.320 was scathing of the action taken by police and of 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:06.560 the comments of the Children's Minister Karen Chaw in this instance. 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:12.079 In his words, he says, this practice of handover mouth 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:16.600 amounts to suffocating a child and it is, in his words, 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:20.600 a very very serious crime. In his words, it's also 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:25.679 very very violent. And he's highly critical of the minister, 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:29.480 telling me that how can she sit back in Wellington 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:32.920 and say that she's reassured that everything is okay in 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:37.840 Gloria Vail when we know that it's still operating, and 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:40.679 when we know that this sort of thing has been 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:45.640 going on. He also points out that doing things like 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:51.520 issuing warnings or offering education and advice to leaders at 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:55.480 Gloria Vail, in his mind, will not lead to change 0:13:55.640 --> 0:14:03.520 because don't forget, Gloria Vail is community whereby they all 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:07.240 listen to the shepherds, and the overseeing shepherd they call 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:11.600 the shots. It's not police or auditing a tamadiki who 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:15.079 they necessarily listen to. That's what he says. That's what 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:19.160 Brian Henry says anyway, So he is deeply skeptical about 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:23.800 whether these formal warnings and education are being dished out 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:26.120 by police and ordering a tamadeki is going to lead 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:30.800 to lasting change because of the extent of control and 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:34.840 manipulation that has been visited on the people of Gloriaval 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:36.360 for many, many decades. 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:41.000 It sounds like he would rather Gloriaval ended. 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:44.680 Well, I mean exactly, and he's said that to me, 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:50.200 you know, during our interview that how can the Minister 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:53.720 say that we're doing all we can to ensure these 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:57.160 children are safe when Gloria Vale is still operating. That's 0:14:57.200 --> 0:14:59.760 the fundamental problem here is that Gloria Vale is still 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:03.800 in the existence in twenty twenty five. He says, this 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:09.760 government and consecutive governments have failed to do anything about Gloria. 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:10.560 Vale for decades. 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:14.320 For fifty years, Chelsea, Yeah, this is how long it's 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:19.680 been going on for. And we know leaders like Hopeful 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:23.600 Christian was a convicted sex offender. We know there's been 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:28.680 multiple cases brook before the courts where sexual assault on 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:32.480 young people has been proven and police have been involved 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:38.560 in that. So he is deeply skeptical of the minister's 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:41.480 reassurances and invites her to go and talk to some 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:44.200 of the leaders of Gloria Vale to understand the gravity 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:47.720 and the seriousness of the current situation. 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:56.600 And so what would you say to them and Glory 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:57.040 about it. 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:01.240 Genuinely skiered and don't know what's out there in the 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:02.040 outside world. 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:05.800 I would say to them that the world is so 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:10.080 bigger than so much bigger than Glorovale, and like it's 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:15.200 okay to ask questions, and life is more than just survivant, 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:20.680 like God put us on this earth to have imaginations 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:23.440 and to have hobbies and to live and enjoy it, 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:28.280 not just survive. And life can be fun. It doesn't 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:31.240 just have to be work work, work, and you can 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:35.200 ask questions, you can be you, and being you's okay. 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:41.840 Has Gloria Vail responded to any of this, Yes. 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:45.040 So they have come back to me, and in an 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:49.400 email attributed to a community spokesperson, they tell me that 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:53.760 the members of Gloria Vail uphold the national expectations of 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:56.520 safety for children in New Zealand. They also point out 0:16:56.560 --> 0:17:02.000 that since twenty sixteen there have been education programs within 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:06.040 Gloria Vail on safe parenting and child safety awareness, and 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:12.080 that since twenty sixteen these education processes have quote progressively 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:18.240 been embedded. They also talk about the mass allegation investigation 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:21.600 in the community spokesperson told me that there was a 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:26.200 significant percentage of internal reporting that had taken place by 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:30.240 parents self reporting, which is how Adongo Tamadiki may have 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:34.240 become aware of this issue. They say that there were 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:38.200 two formal warnings issued by police. One was the result 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:42.800 of a parent self reporting and the other allegation was denied. 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:47.399 The spokesburses says neither allegation involved a member while in 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:52.320 a professional role and that neither allegation led to further action. 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:56.560 But just to confirm, they have said that it was 0:17:56.640 --> 0:18:02.119 in twenty twenty four that police and OT held a 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:08.360 meeting with parents and leaders and were quote very clearly 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:13.399 told of the emotional and physical dangers of restricting the 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:18.240 airway in young people. Essentially, what Gloria Vale is telling 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:22.439 me is that they have taken on board this meeting 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:26.200 when police turned up and OT turned up and said, hey, 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:30.000 look you can't restrict a child's airways. They've taken that 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:34.719 on board and they have been implementing these changes over 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:38.920 many years now. Of course, when you get a statement 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:42.400 like this as a journalist and it says that education 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:47.879 programs have been progressively embedded, I then went back to 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:52.040 Gloriavale and said, well, what does that mean? Does that 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:56.560 mean that this is still possibly happening, And the response 0:18:56.640 --> 0:19:00.520 I got was, to my knowledge, no parents are practic this. 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:07.679 So I guess that's the reassurance from Gloria Vale is 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:11.000 that this is not happening anymore. It was hardly what 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:15.240 I would say a compelling green light that all is well. 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:17.920 But I think what is important here, Chelsea, is that 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:23.840 it was the Royal Commission who unearthed this information about 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:28.119 children having their airways restricted. Was it the leaders at 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:31.800 Gloria Vale who volunteered and said, hey, guys, we just 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:33.800 realized we've been doing this and it might not be 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:36.119 the best way to treat kids. Was it Gloria of 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:40.840 our leaders who who offered up this information to police 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:41.800 or authorities? 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:42.520 No, it was not. 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:47.240 It was leavers. It was former residents who told police 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:50.919 in OT and the Commission about what happened. And it 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:54.159 is on that basis that police and OT have begun 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:55.440 this investigation. 0:19:55.960 --> 0:20:00.400 How confident are you that this practice has ended? 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:04.440 Well, look, I'm not in Gloria Vale. I haven't been 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:09.600 down there for some time. I have spoken to people 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:11.800 at Gloria Vale because I would like to go down 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:16.120 and catch up with the new overseeing shepherd who's been 0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:19.119 put in charge of the place. But I don't know 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:25.159 is the answer. You know, it depends on who you asked. 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:30.040 You know, I suspect that some would believe it. Of course, 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:36.679 is still going on because as I've said, these sorts 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:40.800 of practices and techniques, just like you have to dress 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:44.119 like this, and just like we have this structure of 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:47.520 men in charge and women are not. You listen to 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:51.879 the leadership. The leadership are in total control and you 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:58.320 have to abide by what they say. And this form 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:03.879 of discipline for children while brought in recommended and endorsed 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:08.440 by Hopeful Christian, the founder of Gloria Vale. But look, 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:11.159 we have to also listen to what the minister is 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:14.720 saying here, listen to what police and ot have done. 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:18.400 This is not a small investigation. This is a huge, 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:23.960 months long investigation. More than one hundred interviews have taken place, 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:28.760 and they say that they have they're now and there 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:33.040 making sure parents are aware of parenting techniques and how 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:35.159 to treat their children. And of course we have Gloria 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:38.320 Vale saying that you know, they have been implementing these 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:42.720 child safety programs since about twenty sixteen, and they have 0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:45.879 also told me that to their knowledge, no parents are 0:21:45.920 --> 0:21:51.160 practicing this anymore, so look, it depends on who you ask. 0:21:52.080 --> 0:21:54.560 We've been told that it's not happening anymore, so I think, 0:21:54.840 --> 0:21:56.800 you know, we have to I don't have any evidence 0:21:56.840 --> 0:22:00.000 that it is still going on at Gloriavale at the. 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:02.720 Thanks for joining us, Michael Pleasure. 0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:09.320 That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:13.240 can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:17.359 at enzidherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:20.840 produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also 0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:21.679 our editor. 0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:23.639 I'm Chelsea Daniels. 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:27.280 Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you 0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:31.000 get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look 0:22:31.080 --> 0:22:32.240 behind the headlines.