1 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: Kiota. 2 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and This is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by. 4 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:12,559 Speaker 3: The New Zealand Herald. 5 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 2: New details have emerged about what could be happening behind 6 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 2: the scenes at Gloria Vale. Authorities have been quietly involved 7 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 2: in yet another investigation there, with the Children's Minister and 8 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 2: Uraga Tamariki both involved. 9 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 3: This time a mass allegation. 10 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:38,560 Speaker 2: Investigation relates to concerns that parents were taught to cover 11 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 2: the mouths of children and babies to stop them from crying. 12 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 3: Ends At Herald's senior. 13 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 2: Investigative reporter, Michael Morra has been digging into this and 14 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 2: he joins us now on the Front Page. First off, Michael, 15 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 2: I know in this day and age, you'd be pretty 16 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 2: hard pressed to find someone who doesn't know what Glory 17 00:00:59,960 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 2: is Val is. But how would you explain it to 18 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 2: someone who just didn't know anything about it? 19 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 4: I guess it's a secretive sect on the west coast 20 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 4: of the South Island. It's a fundamentalist Christian community. They 21 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:20,279 Speaker 4: have a very male dominated leadership structure. Women don't really 22 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 4: have the same rights or leadership roles as the men 23 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 4: who there's the overseeing shepherd and then the Shepherds do. 24 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:31,759 Speaker 4: They have a very shared sense of belonging and they 25 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 4: promote large families. They have struck protocols on what you 26 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 4: can dress. They also do not like influence from the 27 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:44,639 Speaker 4: outside world, which is seen as evil, and their world 28 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 4: is seen as following Jesus Christ and what he would do. 29 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 3: How many people are there? 30 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 5: Do? We know? 31 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 4: About six hundred members at Gloria Vale currently. 32 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 2: Wow. 33 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 3: And a lot of kids. 34 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 4: Yes, mostly children, So the population of Gloria Vale is 35 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 4: mainly made up of young people. 36 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 2: Tell me about how you first learned that there might 37 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 2: be another investigation happening behind the scenes at Gloriavale and 38 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:12,399 Speaker 2: what are those allegations. 39 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 4: So I've just started doing some investigative work into Gloria Vale, 40 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 4: and part of that involved filing some Official Information Act 41 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 4: requests with the Children's Minister, Karen Shaw. As part of 42 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 4: that request, I sought updates and ministerial briefings. I essentially, 43 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 4: as a journalist, wanted to know what precisely was going 44 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 4: on at Gloria Vale right now in twenty twenty five, 45 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 4: and what had the minister advised been advised was going on. 46 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 4: What I learned is that police and udoing a Tamaiki 47 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 4: have quietly been conducting what they term a mass allegation 48 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 4: investigation at Gloria Vale. This has involved more than one 49 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 4: hundred interviews with parents children who are current residents of Glorivale, 50 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 4: as well as some former residents or leavers of Gloriavale. 51 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:14,799 Speaker 4: This started this investigation in November last year and it's 52 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 4: now been complete. And what I've learned from the documents 53 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 4: is that this investigation was carried out as a result 54 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 4: of concerns that came out in the Royal Abuse and 55 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 4: Care Inquiry. Now that Abuse and Care Inquiry obviously heard 56 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 4: from lawyers and former residents of Gloriavale about the abuse 57 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 4: and harm they say occurred during their time within this community, 58 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 4: and it was that information which prompted this mass allegation investigation. 59 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 4: Now what exactly was it all about, Well, one aspect 60 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 4: and it hasn't really been covered much at all in 61 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 4: the media in terms of what the Commission heard was 62 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 4: that there was a practice at Gloria Vail that Founder 63 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 4: Hopeful Christian essentially taught and encouraged, and that was if 64 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:21,280 Speaker 4: a child is crying or upset or making noise, there 65 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 4: is a method to stop that and it should be 66 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 4: encouraged because it's disciplining a child, and parents who discipline 67 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 4: their children and who have well behaved children at Gloria 68 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 4: Vale are given the big tick that they're doing well. 69 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,799 Speaker 4: And that method to quiet and children was to put 70 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 4: your hand over the baby or child's mouth and knows 71 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 4: so that they would not cry anymore. Now, obviously that 72 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 4: is incredibly dangerous. However, I have spoken to former Gloria 73 00:04:55,680 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 4: Vail residents who told me parents were never told of 74 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 4: the risks of this to a child. It was all 75 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 4: about discipline and they were taught these techniques, which is 76 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 4: hand over mouth to prevent a child from crying. 77 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you've spoken to at least one former 78 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 2: Glory of Our resident, Virginia Courage. I saw what she 79 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 2: said about her experiences there as a parent. 80 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: Well. 81 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 4: Her comments in my story out on enzid hero dot 82 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 4: co dot nz this morning verifies what the Royal Commission 83 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 4: into Abuse and Care heard, And what the Commission heard 84 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 4: was that quote. Several former residents reported seeing children and 85 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 4: infants turning blue after they had been essentially suffocated by 86 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 4: their pearents when they were crying. Virginia Courage told me 87 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:07,679 Speaker 4: that about two thousand and fourteen, she was in a meeting. 88 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 4: This was a married couple's meeting, and during that meeting, 89 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 4: Hopeful Christian and another person who she says was some 90 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 4: sort of medical authority within Gloria Vale, even though he 91 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 4: had no medical training whatsoever, spoke about this technique and 92 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 4: said not to worry about asphyxiation and that the child 93 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 4: who would go quiet would still be able to breathe 94 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 4: because they would just then relax. But it was about 95 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 4: teaching them discipline, and so her comments was that she 96 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 4: saw children turning blue in her time. She also said 97 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 4: to me that she had to on one occasion, and 98 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 4: this was in two thousand and six. Between the two 99 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 4: thousand and six and two thousand and eight, she was 100 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 4: brought a baby who was limp and in the arms 101 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 4: of her father, and she was asked to resuscitate the baby, 102 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 4: which she did. Of course, Virginia, as a woman in 103 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 4: Gloria Vale, did not make a fuss about this, did 104 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 4: not say to the father, what are you doing, because 105 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 4: women and saying something like that too a man in 106 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 4: Gloriavale is frowned upon. She told me she was horrified 107 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 4: and terrified by the practice and the fact that it 108 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 4: was being taught and she said to her husband, they 109 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 4: would never do that to their children. But she recalls 110 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 4: growing up in Gloria Vale, she saw it happen regularly 111 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 4: to other children and she saw children kids plural go 112 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 4: blue when this occurred. 113 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 2: An outsider might look in and say, well, these children 114 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 2: are being exploited. 115 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 5: They talk nonsense, They talk nonsense. These children are growing 116 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 5: up learning now to take responsibility. They're not going to 117 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 5: go on the doll We will find work for people, 118 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 5: and if they can't work for some reason, we will 119 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 5: look after them. I believe that God's given me a 120 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 5: job to do and that's why we start the community 121 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 5: and whatever that meant to do that or done it. 122 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 3: So what else have the documents revealed? What does the 123 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 3: Children's minister know about this? 124 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 4: So I've spoken to Karen Chaw. She was quite reluctant 125 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:34,959 Speaker 4: to go into specifics about this investigation. But what we 126 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 4: do know from police or maybe I'll just mentioned the 127 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 4: police action first on this, because that's quite important here. 128 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 4: The police have carried out this investigation that's now complete 129 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:52,199 Speaker 4: and they have issued two formal warnings to to residents 130 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 4: at Gloria Vale and they are also doing what they're 131 00:08:56,160 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 4: calling techniques. They're giving parents techniques on how to deal 132 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 4: with various childhood behaviors and scenarios. So that's the official 133 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 4: action that police and udong A Tamadiki have taken. Two 134 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 4: formal warnings and then education and advice. Now the minister 135 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 4: says that's a good positive step because her team, who 136 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 4: she says she has recently increased resources for in Graymouth, 137 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 4: are going in there regularly and are advising parents about 138 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 4: what you should and shouldn't do when you have a 139 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 4: child or baby. So she says that's a good start, 140 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 4: you know, will it Lee? I said to her, well, 141 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 4: you know, will this actually result in change? And she said, well, look, 142 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 4: it may not change the entire world, but it's a start, 143 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 4: is what she said. I also asked her, in light 144 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 4: of these this evidence and these investigations and what the 145 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 4: Royal Commission has already found, should Gloria Vale still be 146 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 4: functioning in twenty twenty And she said to me that 147 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 4: she would not offer her personal opinion on the state 148 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 4: of Gloriavale, but that under her watch, her job was 149 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 4: to ensure that children were safe and that's what she 150 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 4: would do and she said that if police or audoing 151 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 4: A Tamadeki learned that children were being harmed in Gloria Vale, 152 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 4: it's her expectation that they would be removed from that community. 153 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 4: And she's quite adamant that her team in there regularly 154 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 4: doing the best job that they can. They've been properly 155 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 4: resourced to do that job, and she's keeping a very 156 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 4: close eye on this situation. What does regular mean, I 157 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 4: think regular means weekly, So audong A Tamadiki are going 158 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 4: in there weekly to check on things that are happening there. 159 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 4: Just in terms of a little bit of a background 160 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 4: as well to this mass allegation investigation to give you 161 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 4: a bit of a stare on just how significant this was. 162 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 4: Ordering a Tamadiki between October twenty twenty four and August 163 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 4: this year received so that's eleven months, they received eighty 164 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:14,359 Speaker 4: one reports of concern from within the glory of our community. 165 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:20,439 Speaker 4: So this really gives you, Chelsea, a pretty strong indication 166 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 4: of just how problematic things have been. So these reports 167 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 4: of concern, the eighty one sixty of those reports have 168 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:37,319 Speaker 4: concerned related to this mass allegation investigation, which of course, 169 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 4: was this practice or technique or method of covering up 170 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 4: a child or babies airways when they are upset or crying. 171 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 4: So that is the result of the investigation so far, 172 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,559 Speaker 4: these formal warnings from police and the education and advice 173 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 4: being offered. 174 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 3: Who else have you spoken to about this? 175 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 4: Spoken to lawyer Brian Henry. You may remember Brian Henry's name. 176 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:05,839 Speaker 3: He is, Yeah, he's been in court before. 177 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 4: Run yep, yep. He has. In fact, he led to 178 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 4: landmark cases which were successful in the Employment Court which 179 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 4: determined that his clients, former Gloriavale residents were in fact 180 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:28,839 Speaker 4: employees at Gloria Vale, not volunteers. During that those court 181 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 4: cases he effectively we didn't effectively, he did state that 182 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 4: essentially Gloria Vale was operating off the back of slave 183 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 4: labor and child labor in some instances. So that is 184 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 4: what the Employment Court heard and they agreed with him. 185 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 4: And there has been various reparations that Gloriavale has had 186 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 4: to pay out as a result of that. So Brian 187 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 4: Henry has essentially been spearheading action against Gloria Vale. He 188 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 4: was scathing of the action taken by police and of 189 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 4: the comments of the Children's Minister Karen Chaw in this instance. 190 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:12,079 Speaker 4: In his words, he says, this practice of handover mouth 191 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 4: amounts to suffocating a child and it is, in his words, 192 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 4: a very very serious crime. In his words, it's also 193 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:25,679 Speaker 4: very very violent. And he's highly critical of the minister, 194 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 4: telling me that how can she sit back in Wellington 195 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 4: and say that she's reassured that everything is okay in 196 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 4: Gloria Vail when we know that it's still operating, and 197 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:40,679 Speaker 4: when we know that this sort of thing has been 198 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 4: going on. He also points out that doing things like 199 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 4: issuing warnings or offering education and advice to leaders at 200 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 4: Gloria Vail, in his mind, will not lead to change 201 00:13:55,640 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 4: because don't forget, Gloria Vail is community whereby they all 202 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 4: listen to the shepherds, and the overseeing shepherd they call 203 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 4: the shots. It's not police or auditing a tamadiki who 204 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:15,079 Speaker 4: they necessarily listen to. That's what he says. That's what 205 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 4: Brian Henry says anyway, So he is deeply skeptical about 206 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 4: whether these formal warnings and education are being dished out 207 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 4: by police and ordering a tamadeki is going to lead 208 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 4: to lasting change because of the extent of control and 209 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 4: manipulation that has been visited on the people of Gloriaval 210 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 4: for many, many decades. 211 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 3: It sounds like he would rather Gloriaval ended. 212 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 4: Well, I mean exactly, and he's said that to me, 213 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 4: you know, during our interview that how can the Minister 214 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 4: say that we're doing all we can to ensure these 215 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 4: children are safe when Gloria Vale is still operating. That's 216 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 4: the fundamental problem here is that Gloria Vale is still 217 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 4: in the existence in twenty twenty five. He says, this 218 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 4: government and consecutive governments have failed to do anything about Gloria. 219 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 3: Vale for decades. 220 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 4: For fifty years, Chelsea, Yeah, this is how long it's 221 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 4: been going on for. And we know leaders like Hopeful 222 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 4: Christian was a convicted sex offender. We know there's been 223 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 4: multiple cases brook before the courts where sexual assault on 224 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 4: young people has been proven and police have been involved 225 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 4: in that. So he is deeply skeptical of the minister's 226 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 4: reassurances and invites her to go and talk to some 227 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 4: of the leaders of Gloria Vale to understand the gravity 228 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 4: and the seriousness of the current situation. 229 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 3: And so what would you say to them and Glory 230 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 3: about it. 231 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 2: Genuinely skiered and don't know what's out there in the 232 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 2: outside world. 233 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 1: I would say to them that the world is so 234 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: bigger than so much bigger than Glorovale, and like it's 235 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: okay to ask questions, and life is more than just survivant, 236 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: like God put us on this earth to have imaginations 237 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: and to have hobbies and to live and enjoy it, 238 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: not just survive. And life can be fun. It doesn't 239 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: just have to be work work, work, and you can 240 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: ask questions, you can be you, and being you's okay. 241 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 3: Has Gloria Vail responded to any of this, Yes. 242 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 4: So they have come back to me, and in an 243 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 4: email attributed to a community spokesperson, they tell me that 244 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 4: the members of Gloria Vail uphold the national expectations of 245 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 4: safety for children in New Zealand. They also point out 246 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 4: that since twenty sixteen there have been education programs within 247 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 4: Gloria Vail on safe parenting and child safety awareness, and 248 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 4: that since twenty sixteen these education processes have quote progressively 249 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 4: been embedded. They also talk about the mass allegation investigation 250 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 4: in the community spokesperson told me that there was a 251 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 4: significant percentage of internal reporting that had taken place by 252 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 4: parents self reporting, which is how Adongo Tamadiki may have 253 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 4: become aware of this issue. They say that there were 254 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 4: two formal warnings issued by police. One was the result 255 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 4: of a parent self reporting and the other allegation was denied. 256 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 4: The spokesburses says neither allegation involved a member while in 257 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 4: a professional role and that neither allegation led to further action. 258 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 4: But just to confirm, they have said that it was 259 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 4: in twenty twenty four that police and OT held a 260 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:08,360 Speaker 4: meeting with parents and leaders and were quote very clearly 261 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 4: told of the emotional and physical dangers of restricting the 262 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 4: airway in young people. Essentially, what Gloria Vale is telling 263 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:22,439 Speaker 4: me is that they have taken on board this meeting 264 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 4: when police turned up and OT turned up and said, hey, 265 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 4: look you can't restrict a child's airways. They've taken that 266 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:34,719 Speaker 4: on board and they have been implementing these changes over 267 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 4: many years now. Of course, when you get a statement 268 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 4: like this as a journalist and it says that education 269 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:47,879 Speaker 4: programs have been progressively embedded, I then went back to 270 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 4: Gloriavale and said, well, what does that mean? Does that 271 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 4: mean that this is still possibly happening, And the response 272 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 4: I got was, to my knowledge, no parents are practic this. 273 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:07,679 Speaker 4: So I guess that's the reassurance from Gloria Vale is 274 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 4: that this is not happening anymore. It was hardly what 275 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 4: I would say a compelling green light that all is well. 276 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 4: But I think what is important here, Chelsea, is that 277 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 4: it was the Royal Commission who unearthed this information about 278 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 4: children having their airways restricted. Was it the leaders at 279 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 4: Gloria Vale who volunteered and said, hey, guys, we just 280 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 4: realized we've been doing this and it might not be 281 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 4: the best way to treat kids. Was it Gloria of 282 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 4: our leaders who who offered up this information to police 283 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 4: or authorities? 284 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: No, it was not. 285 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 4: It was leavers. It was former residents who told police 286 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,919 Speaker 4: in OT and the Commission about what happened. And it 287 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 4: is on that basis that police and OT have begun 288 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 4: this investigation. 289 00:19:55,960 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 3: How confident are you that this practice has ended? 290 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 4: Well, look, I'm not in Gloria Vale. I haven't been 291 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 4: down there for some time. I have spoken to people 292 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 4: at Gloria Vale because I would like to go down 293 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:16,120 Speaker 4: and catch up with the new overseeing shepherd who's been 294 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 4: put in charge of the place. But I don't know 295 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 4: is the answer. You know, it depends on who you asked. 296 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 4: You know, I suspect that some would believe it. Of course, 297 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:36,679 Speaker 4: is still going on because as I've said, these sorts 298 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 4: of practices and techniques, just like you have to dress 299 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 4: like this, and just like we have this structure of 300 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 4: men in charge and women are not. You listen to 301 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 4: the leadership. The leadership are in total control and you 302 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 4: have to abide by what they say. And this form 303 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 4: of discipline for children while brought in recommended and endorsed 304 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 4: by Hopeful Christian, the founder of Gloria Vale. But look, 305 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 4: we have to also listen to what the minister is 306 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 4: saying here, listen to what police and ot have done. 307 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,400 Speaker 4: This is not a small investigation. This is a huge, 308 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 4: months long investigation. More than one hundred interviews have taken place, 309 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 4: and they say that they have they're now and there 310 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 4: making sure parents are aware of parenting techniques and how 311 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,159 Speaker 4: to treat their children. And of course we have Gloria 312 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 4: Vale saying that you know, they have been implementing these 313 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 4: child safety programs since about twenty sixteen, and they have 314 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,879 Speaker 4: also told me that to their knowledge, no parents are 315 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 4: practicing this anymore, so look, it depends on who you ask. 316 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 4: We've been told that it's not happening anymore, so I think, 317 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 4: you know, we have to I don't have any evidence 318 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 4: that it is still going on at Gloriavale at the. 319 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us, Michael Pleasure. 320 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 321 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 322 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 2: at enzidherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is 323 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 2: produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also 324 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:21,679 Speaker 2: our editor. 325 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 3: I'm Chelsea Daniels. 326 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 2: Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you 327 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 2: get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look 328 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 2: behind the headlines.