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Speaker 1: So perhaps one of the more exciting parts of the

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Speaker 1: new still school curriculum reform, very direct link to the

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Speaker 1: trades and vocational training subjects will be co designed with

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Speaker 1: industry to boost career viability. James mcdowald is the head

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Speaker 1: of Advocacy at the MTA and is with us. James, morning, morning, Mike.

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Speaker 1: How are you good? Are you excited?

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Speaker 2: I am. It's a very a very welcome change. It

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Speaker 2: was a pleasure to attend the funeral yesterday of nca

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Speaker 2: and I very much look forward to the future and

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Speaker 2: particularly what we're going to be doing with vocational pathways.

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Speaker 1: What's your interface currently with the schooling system.

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Speaker 2: Well, this Gateway program which tries to go in there

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Speaker 2: and get kids and get them to on job environments,

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Speaker 2: it's you know, tertiary fundered and not paid for. That

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Speaker 2: there's a little bit of interface, but ultimately the big

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Speaker 2: problem with NCAA is it's just an absolute dog's breakfast

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Speaker 2: And when you've got more than forty percent of kids

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Speaker 2: who pict just a few credits here and there in

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Speaker 2: vocational pathways, that's it's not a pathway into the serious

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Speaker 2: pathway into the trades. That's then just you know and

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Speaker 2: that's how the system works and incentivisers gaming the system

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Speaker 2: and picking up little credits here and there. So doing

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Speaker 2: away with all of that what we would very much

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Speaker 2: like to see now, and it's part of the consultation

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Speaker 2: process is saying, look, okay, we're going to do these

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Speaker 2: big core subjects. Let's have, say, in our case, an

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Speaker 2: automotive subject, and we all work with the polytechs and

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Speaker 2: providers like MITO that do the on job training and

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Speaker 2: start the moving exactly the best.

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Speaker 1: So I want to be an engineer in F one.

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Speaker 1: Is that how it's going to work for me. I'll

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Speaker 1: do my maths, I'll do my English, and I'll do

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Speaker 1: something that channels me towards that.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's a lot like the old day. It's a

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Speaker 2: lot like the old system, or perhaps more contemporarily like

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Speaker 2: more like Cambridge. At the moment where you have your

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Speaker 2: core subjects, there will be much less choice, for sure.

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Speaker 2: I mean that's the problem with NCDA. There's just far

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Speaker 2: too much flexibility. You've got something like over eleven thousand

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Speaker 2: unit standards you can choose from that make up these qualifications.

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Speaker 2: That's just a complete mess. You know, you might get

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Speaker 2: a few credits for learning how to put oil in

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Speaker 2: a car. That does not make you an automotive engineer. Unfortunately, No,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't.

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Speaker 1: Do you think we will be able to it, because

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Speaker 1: I've been being on about this literally for years. Do

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Speaker 1: you think we will be able to break the psychological

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Speaker 1: whatever it is that we have with university, Not that

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Speaker 1: university is bad or any of that of your on

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Speaker 1: a pathway, but this this fixation with getting a be

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Speaker 1: calm or whatever it is, as opposed to the trades

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Speaker 1: which are second place.

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Speaker 2: Well that's been one of the strong messages from the

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Speaker 2: government and then talking to ministers in the last few days,

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Speaker 2: and they would really like to see the trades elevated

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Speaker 2: and not seen as you know, a fallback option for

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Speaker 2: those that don't do very well at school. You know,

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Speaker 2: let's be honest, these are highly skilled roles and these

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Speaker 2: are future business owners and having a much more coherent

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Speaker 2: pathway into whether it's full on job training through MITO

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Speaker 2: or whether it's an to a polytechnic, having that they're

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Speaker 2: in the school and then they get halfway halfway through

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Speaker 2: this thing anyway, that will raise its profile. I think.

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Speaker 1: So that's this part good stuff. James Wilder, James mcdell,

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Speaker 1: who's with the MTA this morning. I reckon that was

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Speaker 1: the most positive government announcement that's been made so far

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Speaker 1: in this government in terms of reaction. Our newsroom ran

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Speaker 1: a few negative stories, as they normally do, but apart

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Speaker 1: from that, overall, yesterday seem to me for something as

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Speaker 1: large as it is, and believe me, it's large, overall,

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Speaker 1: most people seem to say thank the Good Lord for that.

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Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to

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Speaker 2: news Talks. It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow

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Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio