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Speaker 1: There are calls for tougher rules for pharmacists after the

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Speaker 1: death of a two month old baby who was wrongly

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Speaker 1: given an adult dosage of medicine. Now the child's parents

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Speaker 1: and also a NICU doctor are questioning why pharmacists don't

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Speaker 1: have to have their medication checked by a second pharmacist

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Speaker 1: before they dispense them to a client. Lanny Wong is

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Speaker 1: the director of mung of Phi Pharmacy and sits on

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Speaker 1: the National Executive at the Pharmaceutical Society. Lanny, Hello, Gerda Heather.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that every medication should be checked by

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Speaker 1: a second set of eyes or just medication for kids?

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Speaker 2: You know, in the perfect will? Yes, double checking is

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Speaker 2: a good idea, yep, for all of them, for everything. Yes,

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Speaker 2: I would agree with that. Yeah, and that is that

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Speaker 2: is actually what is recommend It is to double check.

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Speaker 2: Even if you're by yourself, you're meant to double check

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Speaker 2: your own work.

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Speaker 1: Does that happen?

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Speaker 2: Yes? And though you know most of most of the time,

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Speaker 2: farmists do their best, but often the system doesn't allow

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Speaker 2: us to do that.

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Speaker 1: Why not too busy?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, it's a very complex thing to explain, but

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Speaker 2: the easiest way to sort of explain this is that

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Speaker 2: we have a system that prioritized volume over value. So

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Speaker 2: there's a fundamental flaw and the way our funding model

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Speaker 2: is shaped, so as you know, the way pharmacy revenue

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Speaker 2: comes is tied to the quantity of item with the spend.

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Speaker 2: You know, So, for example, if you come across a

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Speaker 2: complex prescription that requires a lot of clinical thinking, a

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Speaker 2: lot of sorting out, a lot of contacting prescriber to

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Speaker 2: discuss clinical reasoning, all that takes time and it can

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Speaker 2: take up to a few hours. So when you have

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Speaker 2: a situation like that, you know, you could be spending

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Speaker 2: that time, you know, sorting out all the backlog of

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Speaker 2: prescription and you'll be remunerated for sorting out the back lock,

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Speaker 2: but you won't be remunerated for sorting out a very

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Speaker 2: complex description.

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Speaker 1: Well, everybody, everybody's remunerated for being productive, aren't we forgetting

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Speaker 1: as much done as possible as fast as possible?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that you put it, You put it quite here

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Speaker 2: this so we're being remuneratedble being productive.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Now this thing that the kid was given, so

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Speaker 1: was this baby girl was premature? She was given phosphate?

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Speaker 1: What is just out of interest? What does phosphate do

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Speaker 1: for a prem baby.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so you look, I'm not as specialist. I think

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Speaker 2: the neco specialists that explained that in his article, like

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Speaker 2: young babies, they tend to have pre sort of premature

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Speaker 2: absorption system, so they do have lack of certain type

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Speaker 2: of you know, virol and mineral. So phosphate is one of.

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Speaker 1: Those, right, Okay, so it's giving them something that they

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Speaker 1: don't have.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that's correct. Now.

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Speaker 1: I would have, Lenny, I would have thought that, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you can take a punt with me. I'm

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Speaker 1: in my forties. Who cares, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: But I would have I would have thought that if

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Speaker 1: a farmister's pharmacist is dispensing something for a two month

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Speaker 1: old baby, you would double triple, quadruple check it. Would

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Speaker 1: you not have thought?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I would, Yeah, I would. There will be the

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Speaker 2: normal assumption. However, you know, like in terms of what

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Speaker 2: happened here is it's really hard. That's why pharmacists support

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Speaker 2: a full and transparent investigation to find out what happened.

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Speaker 2: It does seem out of place. I don't think any

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Speaker 2: pharmacists will disagree with your sentiment. You know, obviously something

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Speaker 2: went wrong here, and we need to understand what that is.

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Speaker 2: Because the work we do a contact scripts like that,

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Speaker 2: you know, a lot of you know, we call it

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Speaker 2: the Swiss cheese model. A lot of things can go wrong. Yes,

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Speaker 2: you know, when something's missed and you know, we don't

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Speaker 2: know the nature of this description.

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Speaker 1: It could be Do you not think I mean, do

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Speaker 1: you not think I acknowledge that you guys are just humans? Right,

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Speaker 1: You're not robots, You're humans. You're gonna you're gonna have

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Speaker 1: a fight with your child in the morning, and you're

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Speaker 1: going to be you're gonna be annoyed when you come

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Speaker 1: to work, or you're going to be tired, or maybe

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Speaker 1: you had one too many beers last night or whatever.

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Speaker 1: So actually, considering all of that, should we not, as

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Speaker 1: people receiving the medication double triple check at ourselves, given

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Speaker 1: that we've got access to chat GPT, now, should we

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Speaker 1: not be pumping that in and going is this a

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Speaker 1: standard dose for a woman of forty?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I think you know, yes, yeah, you know that

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Speaker 2: that is certainly in option. But you know, most of

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Speaker 2: the time people that come and then pick up description,

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Speaker 2: they are not well, so they're not thinking clearly. Most

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Speaker 2: of the time, and they are probably in the very

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Speaker 2: vulnerable position. Yeah, and I think you know, for young parents,

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Speaker 2: you know, they're obviously very sleep deprived. You probably understand

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Speaker 2: that yourself, so they're probably not thinking clearly, and you

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Speaker 2: know a lot of things can you know, affect that.

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Speaker 2: And I think you know this is this is one

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Speaker 2: of those things. That's why you know, health professional advice

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Speaker 2: is important.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, Lenny, I appreciate your time. Thanks so much,

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Speaker 1: Lenny Wong Mung of PHI Pharmacy. Also, as I said earlier,

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Speaker 1: SIT's on the National executive at the Pharmaceutical Society. For

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