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Speaker 1: So they call them mister Wilman. You never saw them,

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Speaker 1: but Wilman was an inextricable part of the success of

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Speaker 1: top Gear. Andy Wilman not only produced top Gear, but

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Speaker 1: The Grand Tour and Clarkson's Farm as well. His book

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Speaker 1: is called Mister Wilman's Motoring Adventure and Andy Willman is

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Speaker 1: with us. Good morning, Good morning to you, sir.

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Speaker 2: How are you very well?

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Speaker 1: Indeed, I've watched a lot of the podcasts that you've

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Speaker 1: done in the last couple of months over your top

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Speaker 1: Gear book. Do you feel the reverence with which people

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Speaker 1: hold you and what you've contributed to the televisual industry globally?

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Speaker 3: No, I do not feel this reverence because backroom boys

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Speaker 3: don't feel reverence. They're like, they just feel lucky. Reverence

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Speaker 3: makes me shiver. Oh my god, absolutely makes me shiver.

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Speaker 3: Be because I didn't want any of that going on.

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Speaker 3: I think I've got a side to tell that obviously

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Speaker 3: has been quiet, because everyone's seen the other three up

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Speaker 3: front and people know that I exist. But it was

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Speaker 3: my only goal was to sort of show the glue

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Speaker 3: that went into the connecting of what you actually went

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Speaker 3: on screen and what you saw and everything people have

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Speaker 3: people have received it, well, it's it's been good like that,

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Speaker 3: but reverence, No, I just wanted people to feel that

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Speaker 3: like it did for me. It brought it brought a

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Speaker 3: bit of closure to the whole thing. I mean, did

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Speaker 3: you feel that that It was like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I do. I've watched. I've watched not pissing

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Speaker 1: in your pocket, but I've watched literally every episode of

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Speaker 1: top Gear ever. So I followed its trajectory and and

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Speaker 1: the Grand Tour of course, and Clarkson's farm as well.

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Speaker 1: But what several questions out of the top Gear story.

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Speaker 1: Was there a moment where you thought it had become

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Speaker 1: something bigger than it started out? Is other words, it

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Speaker 1: was more than a TV show.

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Speaker 2: More than a TV show.

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Speaker 3: There were several little moments, but the I mean, I

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Speaker 3: can give you tiny ones that we're never on camera,

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Speaker 3: Like there was a film we did you remember the

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Speaker 3: film when we did the ten pound Crap Italian Supercars,

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Speaker 3: you know, and we were in Marlboro, this sort of

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Speaker 3: this Marlble is this sort of chocolate box town in England.

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Speaker 3: On our journey from on our ambitious ninety six mile

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Speaker 3: journey from Bristol to a lap dancing bar just outside London,

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Speaker 3: and we were like day two and we've done forty

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Speaker 3: miles because they kept breaking down. And we were in

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Speaker 3: this town, Marlboro, which has got a big school there,

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Speaker 3: and Jeremy and I were sitting in his car in

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Speaker 3: that was it a Masa arty he had, I.

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Speaker 2: Think it was, and we looked up.

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Speaker 3: We were going through his notes and we looked up

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Speaker 3: and everything had gone dark and all the windscreens in

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Speaker 3: the side windows were covered in kids.

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Speaker 2: Who had just literally climbed onto the car and covered it.

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Speaker 2: And I looked at it and I went bloody.

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Speaker 3: Oh, top gives changed anyway, And I know what you mean,

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Speaker 3: because this never you know, it had been drive carefully,

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Speaker 3: this diesel version will return you in economy of fifty

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Speaker 3: two miles to the gallony. It had gone from that

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Speaker 3: to this all of a sudden. So those tiny moments

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Speaker 3: made you go, we've really crossed over. Our audience has

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Speaker 3: now exploded. And then other ones like that Richard's crash.

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Speaker 3: Obviously we were I think we're already big by them,

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Speaker 3: but Richards crashed stundards at how we were part of

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Speaker 3: the nation's TV watching fabric.

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Speaker 2: I would say we.

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Speaker 3: Did not the way the news reels were, the way

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Speaker 3: the news coverage was, and everything we thought, oh my god,

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Speaker 3: we were a little show on BBC two. Now this

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Speaker 3: is happening, so there's two right there. And then certain

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Speaker 3: films Alabama Petrol Station when they become water cooler moments

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Speaker 3: that everyone's going on about.

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Speaker 1: What was it once it became that? And given that

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Speaker 1: you were employed by the BBC and therefore funded by

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Speaker 1: the TV license, was it, in some way, shape or

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Speaker 1: form creatively always going to explode in a way that

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Speaker 1: perhaps it.

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Speaker 2: Did didn't have to, No, it didn't have to.

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Speaker 3: It was I think the things, the elements that were

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Speaker 3: inevitable were because we were making things up as we

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Speaker 3: went along, because we had no plan. Now that for

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Speaker 3: years served as really well because if you keep if

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Speaker 3: you suddenly surprise yourself and go, oh my god, we

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Speaker 3: can do specials. Oh my god, we can go on

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Speaker 3: long road trips with old cars, and you think of

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Speaker 3: new things as they come, so you surprise yourself, surprise yourself,

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Speaker 3: surprise yourself. Those moments in turn generate new material which

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Speaker 3: keeps you fresh. But the pressure as the viewerships grow

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Speaker 3: and the whole you're now in the Guinness Book of

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Speaker 3: Records Most Watched in the world. That pressure grows and

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Speaker 3: grows and grows, but nothing really changed within the way

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Speaker 3: we make the show, as in the size of the team,

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Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. It was still very like a

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Speaker 3: little corner shop, a little village store. We were operating

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Speaker 3: like a village store, but would become a department store,

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Speaker 3: if that makes sense, and we hadn't really crued up

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Speaker 3: for it. So the pressure to keep delivering the goods,

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Speaker 3: the pressure of the timetable, the scale of the film's

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Speaker 3: getting bigger and bigger and bigger. That was putting huge

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Speaker 3: pressure on us. And then we were kind of simultaneously

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Speaker 3: two other things. We were kind of going to war

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Speaker 3: with a certain section of BBC management who really were

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Speaker 3: ideologically opposed, whereas before we'd been tolerated as naughty children.

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Speaker 3: And then a third element, we were getting a bit

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Speaker 3: big for our boots. So we were making, you know,

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Speaker 3: things that you'd think twice about saying or doing, we were.

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Speaker 2: Just doing them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because we'd kind of well, I think we're like

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Speaker 3: kids on a sugar rush, you know, at birthday party,

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Speaker 3: would start banging into the walls and the parents are going,

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Speaker 3: now a minute ago, you were quite a nice child,

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Speaker 3: and now you've just knocked everything over. So we were

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Speaker 3: getting like that, and that was a perfect storm, those

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Speaker 3: three elements with the perfect storm that led to our demise.

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Speaker 1: Now I need to talk about him and man Clacton

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Speaker 1: of course, specifically the magic of the three pulling them together.

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Speaker 1: So some aret, some science.

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Speaker 2: What was your role? I think you would let them.

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Speaker 3: They're like those sort of toys where you pull the

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Speaker 3: string in the back and then they just go.

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Speaker 2: You know that.

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Speaker 3: Their their art is that they had no scripts and

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Speaker 3: they could just talk and talk and talk, and they

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Speaker 3: they read each other. They just worked together. So well, however,

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Speaker 3: you've got hundreds of hours of that, and maybe the

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Speaker 3: science and a bit of art was me in the edit,

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Speaker 3: which is where I belonged, crafting them into shape so

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Speaker 3: that you could turn one hundred hours into an hour

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Speaker 3: and a half. I was good at that, and I

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Speaker 3: knew how to, yeah, watch which bits to use, how

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Speaker 3: to make those films into like a little movie with

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Speaker 3: with movie like disciplines and what have you. So I'd

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Speaker 3: say that was my you know, that was my contribution,

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Speaker 3: that I could shape them.

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Speaker 1: Does it get easier for you. On Clason's farm, for example,

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Speaker 1: do you is he beyond help in terms of the genius?

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Speaker 1: In other words, you just.

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Speaker 2: Well beyond help? But he's stop the same enters there

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Speaker 2: we go? Is he beyond the help? And then I

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Speaker 2: can fill him for how long is your show on

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Speaker 2: this morning?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: You go?

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Speaker 1: But what do you do with them?

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Speaker 2: The farm is?

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Speaker 3: The farm is actually a more rewarding even though it's smaller.

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Speaker 3: You know, the stories are not amphibious cars going across

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Speaker 3: the channel. The stories are now moving the goats from

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Speaker 3: one field to another, or a cowgiving birth. They are

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Speaker 3: much reduced in terms of like spectacle, but the Farm

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Speaker 3: is a far more challenging and rewarding show to make,

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Speaker 3: simply because they shoot all the time. It's you know,

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Speaker 3: Jeremy walks out of this front door, is at work.

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Speaker 3: So they just shoot and shoot and shoot, and then

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Speaker 3: we'll see what sticks to the wall. So in the

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Speaker 3: edit we get like a truckload of rushes that then

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Speaker 3: have to be gone through and sorted. And there is

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Speaker 3: no real structure to what an episode can be, whereas

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Speaker 3: in top gear of films there's a road.

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Speaker 2: Map about where they're going and what they're trying to achieve.

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Speaker 2: So the Farm is.

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Speaker 3: Just like that, and that the walls of the edit

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Speaker 3: are like one of those sort of beautiful mind you know,

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Speaker 3: all the equations everywhere, but of storylines and stuff like that.

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Speaker 3: So that's the rewarding bit, is shaping it. We get

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Speaker 3: to do more of that in the edit. Jeremy is

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Speaker 3: absolutely kind of peak on his game because he's you're

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Speaker 3: getting more relaxed, Jeremy. Everyone will tell you that on

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Speaker 3: the farm, and everyone's seeing that. But I think the

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Speaker 3: difference is where I see his magic blowing smoke up

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Speaker 3: his bumper a minute is with Richard and James. He's

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Speaker 3: got two fellow professionals in the farm, Caleeb, Charlie, Lisa, Alan,

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Speaker 3: the builder Gerald. They are all not TV people, They're

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Speaker 3: just people who work around the farm. And once he's

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Speaker 3: with them, he's like the temple that brings all the

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Speaker 3: best out of them in their conversations and so on

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Speaker 3: and so on.

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Speaker 2: They're all really good.

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Speaker 3: But I can see the cold's turning in his head

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Speaker 3: when he shapes are scene when they're all nattering, you know.

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Speaker 3: So it was lightning in a bottle again. The farm

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Speaker 3: a bit like Jeremy Rich and James. You couldn't plan that.

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Speaker 3: But the farm cast and crew, the cast is lightning

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Speaker 3: in a bottle too, because nobody was up.

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Speaker 1: See if I was a conspiracy theorist, I'd say you'd

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Speaker 1: cast all those people because one character, one character's fine.

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Speaker 1: All of them are characters, and all of them are brilliant.

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Speaker 1: And it defies belief that you can just round a

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Speaker 1: group of people up in the local area and that's

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Speaker 1: who they are.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know that's what we keep pinching ourselves out

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Speaker 3: because you think, surely at some point somebody has come

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Speaker 3: along and they're not very good, but it hasn't happened

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Speaker 3: like I think. The part of it is is like

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Speaker 3: Charlie has worked with Jeremy for years, so he has

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Speaker 3: no when the camera is there, it doesn't really make

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Speaker 3: any difference to him. And Charlie doesn't even watch himself

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Speaker 3: on to the show, so he doesn't get corrupted by

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Speaker 3: seeing himself with some people. Do Gerald's been there forever,

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Speaker 3: Caleb's worked on that farm. Lisa is Jeremy's girlfriend. Charlie,

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Speaker 3: I say, has been working forever. Alan has been his

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Speaker 3: builder for years, So they're all there now. We all

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Speaker 3: tried them out on camera to make sure they weren't

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Speaker 3: going to be totally crap, but.

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Speaker 2: Magic happened.

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Speaker 3: They were all They were all pretty perfect. And then

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Speaker 3: you see new people coming along, like the chef who

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Speaker 3: runs the pub. You go, no, surely he must be

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Speaker 3: like a problem now, and he isn't. It's just it's

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Speaker 3: like everyone who comes into that firmament and they kind

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Speaker 3: of get into the groove of what the farm's about.

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Speaker 1: Does Clarkson's Farm go, I mean, I can't see that.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't even does it. I mean after two or

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Speaker 1: three seasons, you've seen the seasons and you've seen the

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Speaker 1: cow being born, the pig being born, and the problems.

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Speaker 1: Yet it can go for River.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's we've got that front of mind because we

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Speaker 3: were very careful to One of our greater achievements was

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Speaker 3: to end the Grand Tour when we did, because most

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Speaker 3: shows always made more one more series than they should

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Speaker 3: of anything, and that's accepted, so it's not seeings of

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Speaker 3: failure in TV circles.

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Speaker 2: It's like, it's just what happens.

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Speaker 3: But we were like, no, no, no, we've got to

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Speaker 3: end the Grand Tour while we've still got an audience.

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Speaker 2: And we've still got some dignity exactly.

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Speaker 1: Andy Willman, a joy to meet in talk with you.

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Speaker 1: Congratulations on the book, and you congratulations on Tod Beer

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Speaker 1: and all the farm. And when you write the book

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Speaker 1: about the farm, we'll get you back on talk about that.

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Speaker 2: To more get a bit.

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Speaker 3: A slim book. They've been me going right. More rushes

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Speaker 3: arrive today.

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Speaker 1: All right, man go well, mister Wilman's motoring Adventure, Andy Wilman.

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Speaker 3: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to

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Speaker 3: news Talks. It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow

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Speaker 3: the podcast on iHeartRadio